| Duracool vs R-134a question [message #131499] |
Wed, 22 June 2011 16:53  |
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Matt Colie
Messages: 8547
Registered: March 2007
Location: S.E. Michigan
Karma: 7
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Senior Member |
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If I have a system (like my own coach) with a good 134 charge, is it worth the effort to dump that (excuse me, recover, salvage and recycle the ozone depleting refrigerant) and recharge the unit with HC-12a? (It is a '73, how much better can it be at its best?)
Does HC-12a really work that much better than either R-12 or R134a??
I am asking for real experience here. As near as I can tell, no hard data exists. (I mean the book of pressures and temperatures and BTU per pound stuff.)
Why??
I just recharged a clients on-board refrigeration with HC-12a. It was working last season, but did not work well when it was put on-line at the start of this season. He is of the opinion that it now works better than it ever did. He could honestly know what he is talking about, but I have been unable to get real thermodynamic data for Duracool or HC-12a by any other name. This boat has a good bank monitor and the owner is conscientious about loads.
Matt & Mary Colie - Chaumière -'73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan with OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Near DTW - Twixt A2 and Detroit
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| Re: [GMCnet] Duracool vs R-134a question [message #131505 is a reply to message #131499] |
Wed, 22 June 2011 17:30  |
emerystora
Messages: 4442
Registered: January 2004
Karma: 13
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Senior Member |
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The accepted thought is that Duracool is about 10% better than 12a and that 134a is about 10% worse than 12a.
Those are nice round numbers but seat of the pants sitting in front of the outlets verify that.
The load on the compressor (the high pressure side or the head side is about 100 psi less with Duracool so it is less load on the engine and less wear and tear on the compressor.
Emery Stora
On Jun 22, 2011, at 3:53 PM, Matt Colie wrote:
>
>
> If I have a system (like my own coach) with a good 134 charge, is it worth the effort to dump that (excuse me, recover, salvage and recycle the ozone depleting refrigerant) and recharge the unit with HC-12a? (It is a '73, how much better can it be at its best?)
>
> Does HC-12a really work that much better than either R-12 or R134a??
>
> I am asking for real experience here. As near as I can tell, no hard data exists. (I mean the book of pressures and temperatures and BTU per pound stuff.)
>
> Why??
> I just recharged a clients on-board refrigeration with HC-12a. It was working last season, but did not work well when it was put on-line at the start of this season. He is of the opinion that it now works better than it ever did. He could honestly know what he is talking about, but I have been unable to get real thermodynamic data for Duracool or HC-12a by any other name. This boat has a good bank monitor and the owner is conscientious about loads.
>
> --
> Matt & Mary Colie
> '73 Glacier 23 Chaumiere (say show-me-air)
> SE Michigan - Twixt A2 and Detroit
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
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| Re: [GMCnet] Duracool vs R-134a question [message #131588 is a reply to message #131505] |
Thu, 23 June 2011 06:41 |
Mr ERFisher
Messages: 7117
Registered: August 2005
Karma: 2
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Senior Member |
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the AC TECH guys in Canada, ( who put on our seminar), would not touch a
coach with 134, they said 134 caused testicular cancer ( boy is that a
stopper;>)
gene
On Wed, Jun 22, 2011 at 3:30 PM, Emery Stora <emerystora@mac.com> wrote:
> The accepted thought is that Duracool is about 10% better than 12a and that
> 134a is about 10% worse than 12a.
> Those are nice round numbers but seat of the pants sitting in front of the
> outlets verify that.
>
> The load on the compressor (the high pressure side or the head side is
> about 100 psi less with Duracool so it is less load on the engine and less
> wear and tear on the compressor.
>
> Emery Stora
>
> On Jun 22, 2011, at 3:53 PM, Matt Colie wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > If I have a system (like my own coach) with a good 134 charge, is it
> worth the effort to dump that (excuse me, recover, salvage and recycle the
> ozone depleting refrigerant) and recharge the unit with HC-12a? (It is a
> '73, how much better can it be at its best?)
> >
> > Does HC-12a really work that much better than either R-12 or R134a??
> >
> > I am asking for real experience here. As near as I can tell, no hard
> data exists. (I mean the book of pressures and temperatures and BTU per
> pound stuff.)
> >
> > Why??
> > I just recharged a clients on-board refrigeration with HC-12a. It was
> working last season, but did not work well when it was put on-line at the
> start of this season. He is of the opinion that it now works better than it
> ever did. He could honestly know what he is talking about, but I have been
> unable to get real thermodynamic data for Duracool or HC-12a by any other
> name. This boat has a good bank monitor and the owner is conscientious
> about loads.
> >
> > --
> > Matt & Mary Colie
> > '73 Glacier 23 Chaumiere (say show-me-air)
> > SE Michigan - Twixt A2 and Detroit
> > _______________________________________________
> > GMCnet mailing list
> > Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> > http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
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>
--
Gene Fisher -- 74-23,77PB/ore/ca
“Give a man a fish; you have fed him for today --- give him a URL and
-------
http://gmcmotorhome.info/
Alternator Protection Cable
http://gmcmotorhome.info/APC.html
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| Re: Duracool vs R-134a question [message #131596 is a reply to message #131499] |
Thu, 23 June 2011 07:16 |
PettyVTX
Messages: 363
Registered: April 2011
Location: Winder Ga.
Karma: 1
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Senior Member |
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If one has 134a in thier system and wants to go to Duracool do you have to flush the whole system and re-oil.
Just askin
Ted
Ex Avion now looking for a 23'
Jeep Wrangler Towd
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| Re: [GMCnet] Duracool vs R-134a question [message #131601 is a reply to message #131499] |
Thu, 23 June 2011 07:18 |
Steven Ferguson
Messages: 3447
Registered: May 2006
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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I dumped the 134 in my Caprice and recharged with Duracool. Too darn cold,
I had to add Duracool to get the output temp (while in motion) above 31
deg. The condenser would completely ice over on 90 deg days until I added
more.
On Wed, Jun 22, 2011 at 2:53 PM, Matt Colie <matt7323tze@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> If I have a system (like my own coach) with a good 134 charge, is it worth
> the effort to dump that (excuse me, recover, salvage and recycle the ozone
> depleting refrigerant) and recharge the unit with HC-12a? (It is a '73, how
> much better can it be at its best?)
>
> Does HC-12a really work that much better than either R-12 or R134a??
>
> I am asking for real experience here. As near as I can tell, no hard data
> exists. (I mean the book of pressures and temperatures and BTU per pound
> stuff.)
>
> Why??
> I just recharged a clients on-board refrigeration with HC-12a. It was
> working last season, but did not work well when it was put on-line at the
> start of this season. He is of the opinion that it now works better than it
> ever did. He could honestly know what he is talking about, but I have been
> unable to get real thermodynamic data for Duracool or HC-12a by any other
> name. This boat has a good bank monitor and the owner is conscientious
> about loads.
>
> --
> Matt & Mary Colie
> '73 Glacier 23 Chaumiere (say show-me-air)
> SE Michigan - Twixt A2 and Detroit
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
--
Steve Ferguson
Sierra Vista, AZ
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| Re: [GMCnet] Duracool vs R-134a question [message #131608 is a reply to message #131596] |
Thu, 23 June 2011 07:38 |
Ken Henderson
Messages: 8726
Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA
Karma: 9
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Senior Member |
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No. Duracool/HC12a is compatible with all of the oils used with R12
or R134a. In fact, it's not even necessary to dump the remaining old
coolant, though the resulting performance will be proportional to the
ratio of old & new.
Ken H.
On Thu, Jun 23, 2011 at 8:16 AM, Ted Petty wrote:
>
>
> If one has 134a in thier system and wants to go to Duracool do you have to flush the whole system and re-oil.
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Ken Henderson
Americus, GA
www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
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