Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » "NEW" fuel hoses don't last
| "NEW" fuel hoses don't last [message #131258] |
Tue, 21 June 2011 10:35  |
GMCNUSA
Messages: 283
Registered: August 2006
Location: Indianapolis, IN
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On Jim Bounds Daily Pose site he has pictures of fuel hose looking real scary. I don't know how long they had been in use but new hose won't last as long as before alcohol gas was used. I think this problem is going to be with us for several years until long lasting alcohol proof hose is developed. Its a dangerous and PIA problem. We must keep checking these weak points.
http://www.gmccoop.com/dailypose.htm
Larry Dilk
Indianapolis, IN
76 Eleganza II
Patterson 455,Turbo City TBI,
Just LOVE It!
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| Re: "NEW" fuel hoses don't last [message #131286 is a reply to message #131258] |
Tue, 21 June 2011 12:09  |
bobby5832708
Messages: 237
Registered: November 2006
Location: Winter Springs FL
Karma: 3
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It seems to me that the 10% ethanol gas we use gets blamed for far more 'bad' things than it should. I've said for a few years now, "why don't I have these problems"?
On my GMC I replumbed the fuel system in early 2007 and used 'Gates SAE 30R7 Safety Stripe Fuel/Vapor Hose' I bought from Central Auto Parts, a local chain that is now part of CarQuest. This past spring I did some minor modifications to the fuel system and replaced a section of the older 2007 hose. The old 2007 hose looked almost as good as new outside and just like new inside... no cracking or sponginess. In 4 years of ethanol-soaked service the Gates hose performed fine.
I have heard about the ethanol dissolving the gunk in storage tanks and then when we buy gas we supposedly get a tankful of goop. One of our daily drivers is a 2004 Toyota Avalon with 130,000 miles. The original fuel filter is still on the car and the car runs fine. I've been meaning to change the fuel filter for a few years now just because I should, but ... you know how that goes! My GMC has one clean tank and one fairly dirty tank. I use individual filters inline from each tank and no in-tank socks. The clean tank has very little dirt in the filter after a years use while the dirty tanks filter gets pretty plugged up. Yeah, I should get that one tank cleaned, but changing an inline filter once a year isn't that hard. The dirty tank got that way in the pre-ethanol days as fuel apparently wasn't used from that tank very much. My fuel-fill plumbing is not quite stock (that's another story) so the tanks are pretty much isolated. If ethanol was so bad why does the Toyota still run fine with a 7 year old 130,000 mile fuel filter? Why doesn't the filter on my clean tank get all gunked up?
I have heard about ethanol ruining small engines, then I look in my shed and see my 1988 Craftsman leaf blower that still runs fine 23 years later. The only repairs to it over the years are a starter rope and several sets of fuel hoses. The last time I replaced the fuel lines I used the stuff made from DuPont Tygon as recommended to me by my local lawn mower dealer. It has the trademark 'Tygon' printed all along the line, if the words aren't there then it's the cheap stuff that won't last. I'm on probably the 4th year with the Tygon fuel lines and the leaf blower still runs fine. I just got rid of my 1994 Lowes lawn tractor because everything from bearings to bushings to pullys to blade spindles were shot. The Briggs 14 hp still ran fine though. The fuel line was a piece of Gates hose from about 6 years ago when I last replaced the fuel filter and it was still apparently in good shape (I didn't remove it to see the inside). So, if ethanol is so bad and ruins small engines, why does my 23 year old leaf blower and 17 year old lawn tractor still run fine? I hope the new John Deere lawn tractor is as reliable as the old 'Lowesmobile'.
I guess it all comes down to using quality parts. I have always been a die-hard Gates fan. I would rather use quality parts and have the repair last rather than save a buck or two and have to do it over again in a couple of years.
I use the same regular unleaded gasoline everybody else uses, primarily Hess, Mobil, and Sunoco because they are closest to my house. I also go to WalMart and Costco at times.
Out of time, I've got to go pay my respects to Ralph Kennerknecht, the FireFight guy. I'm gonna miss him.
Bob Heller
2017 Winnebago 29VE
Winter Springs FL
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| Re: [GMCnet] "NEW" fuel hoses don't last [message #131319 is a reply to message #131270] |
Tue, 21 June 2011 14:37 |
Ray Erspamer
Messages: 1707
Registered: May 2007
Location: Milwaukee Wisconsin
Karma: -3
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So what are the correct fuel hoses to use that will hold up ???
Ray
Ray & Lisa Erspamer
78 Royale "Great Lakes Eagle"
Center Kitchen TZE368V101144
Wauwatosa, Wisconsin 53226
Email: 78GMC-Royale@att.net
414-745-3188
Web Site: http://ray-lisa.page.tl/
________________________________
From: A. <markbb1@netzero.com>
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Sent: Tue, June 21, 2011 11:07:55 AM
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] "NEW" fuel hoses don't last
GMCNUSA wrote on Tue, 21 June 2011 10:35
> On Jim Bounds Daily Pose site he has pictures of fuel hose looking real scary.
>I don't know how long they had been in use but new hose won't last as long as
>before alcohol gas was used. I think this problem is going to be with us for
>several years until long lasting alcohol proof hose is developed. Its a
>dangerous and PIA problem. We must keep checking these weak points.
> http://www.gmccoop.com/dailypose.htm
I have been reading these threads on fuel lines for weeks now.
ARE THE FUEL LINES ON BRAND NEW CARS GOING TO FAIL IN A YEAR OR SO DUE TO
ETHANOL?
If not, what do the manufacturers use and why can't we buy the same materials?
If so, this is a HUGE problem way beyond this forum.
I have to think that there is a simple solution, or this is a non-problem. My
wife's car is 6 years old and has about 100k miles on it, almost all with 10%
ethanol gas (it would be effectively impossible to avoid the stuff). Why
haven't the soft fuel lines in her car failed? My car is a 1998 Mercury Sable.
Why haven't the soft lines failed in it?
--
'73 23' CanyonLands
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Ray Erspamer
78 GMC Royale Center Kitchen
403, 3.70 Final Drive
Holley Sniper Quadrajet EFI System,
Holley Hyperspark Ignition System
414-484-9431
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| Re: [GMCnet] "NEW" fuel hoses don't last [message #131335 is a reply to message #131258] |
Tue, 21 June 2011 18:19 |
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USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
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Senior Member |
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Larry,
I saw that too and I think Jim may have made an error. He notes "check out
the "new" high quality fuel injection hoses," however if you look at the
picture:
http://www.gmccoop.com/Joff-23-damage-3.jpg
you can see "?ot for fuel inject??ns" written on the hose upside down.
Jim, could you take another look and see what part number is written on the
hose.
Regards,
Rob M.
USAussie - Downunder
AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
-----Original Message-----
From: gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org
[mailto:gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of Larry and Cheryl Dilk
Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2011 1:35 AM
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Subject: [GMCnet] "NEW" fuel hoses don't last
On Jim Bounds Daily Pose site he has pictures of fuel hose looking real
scary. I don't know how long they had been in use but new hose won't last as
long as before alcohol gas was used. I think this problem is going to be
with us for several years until long lasting alcohol proof hose is
developed. Its a dangerous and PIA problem. We must keep checking these weak
points.
http://www.gmccoop.com/dailypose.htm
--
Larry Dilk
Indianapolis, IN
76 Eleganza II
Patterson 455,Turbo City TBI,
Just LOVE It!
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GMCnet mailing list
Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
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Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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| Re: [GMCnet] "NEW" fuel hoses don't last [message #131367 is a reply to message #131335] |
Tue, 21 June 2011 20:49 |
GMCNUSA
Messages: 283
Registered: August 2006
Location: Indianapolis, IN
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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| Robert Mueller wrote on Tue, 21 June 2011 19:19 |
Larry,
I saw that too and I think Jim may have made an error. He notes "check out
the "new" high quality fuel injection hoses," however if you look at the
picture:
http://www.gmccoop.com/Joff-23-damage-3.jpg
you can see "?ot for fuel inject??ns" written on the hose upside down.
Regards,
Rob M.
USAussie - Downunder
AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
On Jim Bounds Daily Pose site he has pictures of fuel hose looking real
scary. I don't know how long they had been in use but new hose won't last as
long as before alcohol gas was used. I think this problem is going to be
with us for several years until long lasting alcohol proof hose is
developed. Its a dangerous and PIA problem. We must keep checking these weak
points.
http://www.gmccoop.com/dailypose.htm
--
Larry Dilk
Indianapolis, IN
76 Eleganza II
Patterson 455,Turbo City TBI,
Just LOVE It!
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I saw the not for fuel injection but in the 3rd picture you can read the SAE 30R7 on the hose which I think is alcohol rated. I think hose problems are different for different people. My 2001 Buick has the gas cap loose trouble light on It's not the cap but one of the many hoses in the fuel vapor recovery system leaking. The Buick forums seem to indicate it's a common problem and the problem is usually a cracked vacuum hose leaking when the check is performed.
Larry Dilk
Indianapolis, IN
76 Eleganza II
Patterson 455,Turbo City TBI,
Just LOVE It!
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| Re: "NEW" fuel hoses don't last [message #131385 is a reply to message #131258] |
Tue, 21 June 2011 21:43 |
Dr. Detroit
Messages: 158
Registered: April 2010
Location: Novi, MI.
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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These pics show what can happen when you don't use stuff in the fuel system that is not SAE rated for the current 10% (soon to be 15%) Ethanol gas.
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/showgallery.php?cat=5546
The gray hose was from a boat with a V6 outboard. You can see the inner liner has collapsed. As a result the boat had a loss of power up top.
The O-ring was from a fitting on my motorhome. Always use Viton or equivalent in a fuel system.
The black line was the factory fuel pick up setup from a 1999 Arctic Cat EFI Snowmobile. The damage is to the outer liner of the hose. You can see it's all wrinkled up in the center. Sooner or later a kink would happen.
I've also attached a Gates document that defines the correct hose specs for use with current fuels.
1973 GMC 23'
All Birch and Maple Interior Cabinetry. TZE033V100221
"The Honeycomb Hideout"
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| Re: "NEW" fuel hoses don't last [message #131387 is a reply to message #131258] |
Tue, 21 June 2011 21:50 |
Dr. Detroit
Messages: 158
Registered: April 2010
Location: Novi, MI.
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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The Gates fuel line spec file is to big to attach...
I added it to the picture album (link above). Double click on the photo called "Multimedia File" and the PDF should open.
1973 GMC 23'
All Birch and Maple Interior Cabinetry. TZE033V100221
"The Honeycomb Hideout"
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| Re: "NEW" fuel hoses don't last [message #131388 is a reply to message #131385] |
Tue, 21 June 2011 21:56 |
GMCNUSA
Messages: 283
Registered: August 2006
Location: Indianapolis, IN
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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| Dr. Detroit wrote on Tue, 21 June 2011 22:43 |
These pics show what can happen when you don't use stuff in the fuel system that is not SAE rated for the current 10% (soon to be 15%) Ethanol gas.
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/showgallery.php?cat=5546
The gray hose was from a boat with a V6 outboard. You can see the inner liner has collapsed. As a result the boat had a loss of power up top.
The O-ring was from a fitting on my motorhome. Always use Viton or equivalent in a fuel system.
The black line was the factory fuel pick up setup from a 1999 Arctic Cat EFI Snowmobile. The damage is to the outer liner of the hose. You can see it's all wrinkled up in the center. Sooner or later a kink would happen.
I've also attached a Gates document that defines the correct hose specs for use with current fuels.
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Great pictures documenting what can happen. Thanks for the info from Gates it's interesting that the 30R7 is not holding up.
Larry Dilk
Indianapolis, IN
76 Eleganza II
Patterson 455,Turbo City TBI,
Just LOVE It!
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| Re: "NEW" fuel hoses don't last [message #131390 is a reply to message #131388] |
Tue, 21 June 2011 22:30 |
Surbo
Messages: 213
Registered: February 2004
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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| GMCNUSA wrote on Tue, 21 June 2011 21:56 |
| Dr. Detroit wrote on Tue, 21 June 2011 22:43 |
These pics show what can happen when you don't use stuff in the fuel system that is not SAE rated for the current 10% (soon to be 15%) Ethanol gas.
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/showgallery.php?cat=5546
The gray hose was from a boat with a V6 outboard. You can see the inner liner has collapsed. As a result the boat had a loss of power up top.
The O-ring was from a fitting on my motorhome. Always use Viton or equivalent in a fuel system.
The black line was the factory fuel pick up setup from a 1999 Arctic Cat EFI Snowmobile. The damage is to the outer liner of the hose. You can see it's all wrinkled up in the center. Sooner or later a kink would happen.
I've also attached a Gates document that defines the correct hose specs for use with current fuels.
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Great pictures documenting what can happen. Thanks for the info from Gates it's interesting that the 30R7 is not holding up.
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Fellows;
Gates has had this style hose, the Barricade line, for over a year. Gates has just recently updated the Barricade hose for fuel injection pressure use.
Most any Gates retailer or wholesaler can get this in 5/16" or 3/8", in short lengths or 25ft rolls. Read about it here;
http://www.gates.com/brochure.cfm?brochure=12468&location_id=5348
Bob Drewes in SESD w/455, w/GM TBI, w/EBL, w/ESC, w/Kelsey-Hayes disc brake & park brake on #3 axle, w/ single muffler & exit at left rear
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| Re: "NEW" fuel hoses don't last [message #131437 is a reply to message #131388] |
Wed, 22 June 2011 10:34 |
Dr. Detroit
Messages: 158
Registered: April 2010
Location: Novi, MI.
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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[/quote]
Great pictures documenting what can happen. Thanks for the info from Gates it's interesting that the 30R7 is not holding up.[/quote]
FWIW, I use the 30R9 for everything high pressure or low.
1973 GMC 23'
All Birch and Maple Interior Cabinetry. TZE033V100221
"The Honeycomb Hideout"
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| Re: [GMCnet] "NEW" fuel hoses don't last [message #131559 is a reply to message #131557] |
Wed, 22 June 2011 22:39 |
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USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
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Senior Member |
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G'day,
I don't believe the tech bulletin issued in 2004 relates to the new Gates
Barricade fuel hoses:
http://www.gates.com/australia/downloads/download_common.cfm?file=GatesBarri
cadeFlyer-GAPL0310.pdf&folder=news&view=australia
http://www.gates.com/news/index.cfm?location_id=752&id=11386&show=newsitem
http://www.gatesrubber.com/file_save_common.cfm?thispath=Gates%2Fdocuments_m
odule&file=Barricade4219B_TechNote.pdf
I'm heading out the door to make a meeting and don't have time to Tinyurl
them.
Regards,
Rob M.
USAussie - Downunder
AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
-----Original Message-----
From: gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org
[mailto:gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of D C *Mac* Macdonald
Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2011 1:16 PM
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] "NEW" fuel hoses don't last
Thank you, sir!
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
~~ ~ D C "Mac" Macdonald ~ ~~
~ ~ Amateur Radio - K2GKK ~ ~
~ ~ USAF and FAA, Retired ~ ~
~ ~ ~ Oklahoma City, OK ~ ~ ~
~~ ~ ~ "The Money Pit" ~ ~ ~~
~~ ~ ~ (TZE166V101966) ~ ~ ~~
~ ~ ~ ex-Palm Beach, 76 ~ ~ ~
~ www.gmcmhphotos.com/okclb ~
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
> To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
> From: kwolkens@gmail.com
> Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2011 21:33:24 -0500
> Subject: Re: [GMCnet] "NEW" fuel hoses don't last
>
>
>
> Here you go....
>
>
http://www.gates.com/common/downloads/files/Gates/brochure/TechTipsForm.pdf
> --
> 1973 GMC 23'
> All Birch and Maple Interior Cabinetry. TZE033V100221
> "The Honeycomb Hideout"
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Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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| Re: [GMCnet] "NEW" fuel hoses don't last [message #131705 is a reply to message #131640] |
Thu, 23 June 2011 16:21 |
Dr. Detroit
Messages: 158
Registered: April 2010
Location: Novi, MI.
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Not looking to start and argument here but the Barricade hose literature looks like great "Marketing".
I scrubbed the links and cannot find a single reference to an SAE test spec. Without appropriate testing and a subsequent spec number on the product, I'd proceed with caution.
It might be the best thing in hose technology to come along but without an SAE or ASTM test spec on it, I'd proceed with caution.
1973 GMC 23'
All Birch and Maple Interior Cabinetry. TZE033V100221
"The Honeycomb Hideout"
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