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| Re: [GMCnet] Toad-4000lb [message #128416 is a reply to message #128415] |
Thu, 02 June 2011 22:34   |
John Sharpe
Messages: 489
Registered: February 2006
Location: Texas
Karma: 1
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| Quote: |
.....Does any one tow a 4000 lb vehicle? .....
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Welcome Frank. I would not tow it anywhere without supplemental brakes. By today's standards the stock GMC brakes are just adequate for the coach alone.
John Sharpe
Humble,TX
'78 Eleganza TBI
'89 Spectrum 2000 MPI V-10
'40 Ford Panel Delivery TPI
johnasharpe@gmail.com
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| Re: [GMCnet] Toad-4000lb [message #128423 is a reply to message #128420] |
Thu, 02 June 2011 23:28 |
jimk
Messages: 6734
Registered: July 2006
Location: Belmont, CA
Karma: 9
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Frank,
I would suggest at least a 3.70 ratio.
As far as braking, if your running a bi metalic shoes in the back and
do not ride the brakes you can stop when you need to jam them on.
If your brakes are not operatingat top notch, I would suggest a brake
sytem for the toad.
I have supplied the US Gear unified units to considerable amount of
people and they are happy with my suggestion as they never need to
play with a box in the front seat.
The list price is $1,250, but we supply them around 880.
State laws require toads to have brakes over 2,000lbs.
On Thu, Jun 2, 2011 at 8:59 PM, Dan Gregg <gregg_dan@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> Frank, you not towing the Geo? I figured you had it fixed and behind the GMC again. Think you told me the clutch was out when we were in Du Quoin. What kind of car are you wanting to tow anyway?
> Dan
> --
> Dan & Teri Gregg
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Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC, Fremont,CA
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| Re: [GMCnet] Toad-4000lb [message #128451 is a reply to message #128423] |
Fri, 03 June 2011 08:09 |
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mike miller
Messages: 3576
Registered: February 2004
Location: Hillsboro, Oregon
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| jimk wrote on Thu, 02 June 2011 21:28 |
Frank,
I would suggest at least a 3.70 ratio.
As far as braking, if your running a bi metalic shoes in the back and
do not ride the brakes you can stop when you need to jam them on.
If your brakes are not operatingat top notch, I would suggest a brake
sytem for the toad.
I have supplied the US Gear unified units to considerable amount of
people and they are happy with my suggestion as they never need to
play with a box in the front seat.
The list price is $1,250, but we supply them around 880. ...
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Is that the "UTB-1000" ??
(Unified Tow Brake Kit - for motor coaches NOT pre-wired and towed vehicles equipped with vacuum assist power brakes)
If so... Nice Price!
Mike Miller -- Hillsboro, OR -- on the Black list
(#2)`78 23' Birchaven Rear Bath -- (#3)`77 23' Birchaven Side Bath
More Sidekicks than GMC's and a late model Malibu called 'Boo'
http://m000035.blogspot.com
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| Re: [GMCnet] Toad-4000lb [message #128454 is a reply to message #128391] |
Fri, 03 June 2011 08:35 |
Douglas Norton
Messages: 191
Registered: April 2008
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Let me be the first to say I do. I have two toads, one is a 4000 lb Jeep Cherokee. It would be a tough tow with stock gearing; I have a 3.7 and it tows fine with that. Fuel mileage is about 2.5 mpg less than without toad, based on my best estimation. The larger vehicle has more wind drag and requires a lot more energy to go up hills.
I do use a brake buddy. Breaking assist with the extra weight is nearly essential. Breaking assist is a bit less important but required by law when I tow my 3,000 pound Ford Probe.
Based on my experience, I would recommend a high end breaking assistance system. I have had three failures with the Break Buddy, one of them cost me front brakes, calipers, rotors, bearings, hub caps tires, seals, and more on the toad.
--- On Thu, 6/2/11, Frank Folkmann <ferencme@gmail.com> wrote:
From: Frank Folkmann <ferencme@gmail.com>
Subject: [GMCnet] Toad-4000lb
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Date: Thursday, June 2, 2011, 4:56 PM
Does any one tow a 4000 lb vehicle? If so what is your braking, mileage,
hill climbing etc.
--
All the Best
Frank
SW Indiana
"May God Bless"
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| Re: [GMCnet] Toad-4000lb [message #128460 is a reply to message #128415] |
Fri, 03 June 2011 09:13 |
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Frank Folkmann mostly lurks now, but has been a member of the GMCnet since
1998. He developed the long lived GMCnet Alcoa Wheel Deal with Southwest
Wheel many years ago. He was probably responsible for Darrick Sweedons
bonus check for several years. :-)
But anyhow, Hiya Frank! Don't be a stranger!
bdub
-----Original Message-----
From: On Behalf Of Dan Gregg
Sent: Thursday, June 02, 2011 10:09 PM
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Toad-4000lb
Frank, welcome to our group.
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bdub
bdub.net
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| Re: [GMCnet] Toad-4000lb [message #128462 is a reply to message #128391] |
Fri, 03 June 2011 09:56 |
Andrew
Messages: 213
Registered: April 2011
Location: Connecticut
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I've heard recommendations to stay below 3700# with stock gearing. And above 2000#, definitely use an assistive brake in the frog. State laws vary, but apparently some take it seriously enough to make you decouple and impound, or escort to state lines, etc.
I've been told that GMC TZEs never shipped with towing equipment, so all hitches are aftermarket. So there's variation in those ratings too.
I'm planning to tow 3200# of Honda CR-V for a cross country move this summer. A thousand dollar braking unit (plus a few hundred for bars, etc) is not on my list of exciting ways to spend money, but it'd cost even more for me to ship the car...
I really like this: http://www.gmceast.com/technical/Veenschoten_Toad_Brake.pdf (PDF), but I won't have time for that kind of work before our travel plans begin.
1973 Sequoia 260 (since 2011)
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| Re: [GMCnet] Toad-4000lb [message #128466 is a reply to message #128391] |
Fri, 03 June 2011 10:32 |
jknezek
Messages: 1057
Registered: December 2007
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I tow a 3200-3300LB (fully loaded) Chevy HHR. Using a 3.55 gear ratio, I lose about 1.5mpg and I definitely know the vehicle is back there. It also affects my driving as I slow from 64 to 61 (cruise control flat setting) and I make it a point, as much as possible, to enter interstates on a downward sloping ramp. I also use a brake buddy. It only activates on panic stops and it is not a progressive braking mechanism, so when it locks the towd wheels, you feel it. I would not, however, tow without it. You feel a lot of pushing when trying to brake with stock GMC braking gear and my 3200 lbs towed.
I also highly recommend an extra transmission cooler. Having lost my tranny once, and having it replaced with a Manny tranny, I use a digipanel to monitor temps entering and exiting the tranny. With the towd, my transmission fluid exiting the transmission runs one full bar (about 15-20 degrees) hotter on flat ground and will quickly climb to 3 to 4 bars hotter exiting the transmission (45-80 degrees) pulling shallow but long grades in the southeast. I also find that even with the extra cooler, my entering fluid will climb a bar when towing up a grade and, once this happens, I ease off on the gas because it seems the heat going in exponentially increases the heat coming out. All of this is versus the baseline temp when not towing. When not towing, my transmission temps entering and exiting almost never change, regardless of the grade I pull.
Good luck towing. I know people do pull 4000lbs and more and I certainly think the GMC is capable, but it would be well toward the top of the range depending on ambient temperatures, your running gear, your braking gear, and your route choice.
Thanks,
Jeremy Knezek
1976 Glenbrook
Birmingham, AL
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| Re: [GMCnet] Toad-4000lb [message #128474 is a reply to message #128462] |
Fri, 03 June 2011 11:52 |
George DV
Messages: 132
Registered: August 2004
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Andrew,
To a newbie, here's my advice.
Ship your auto.!
It will save you tons of money [capital intensive hardware plus supplimental
fuel] and avoid lots of PITAs. You will be way ahead!.
I once [in 2001] shipped a large, heavy Caddy 4 dr [collector car] from
Miami to 'beautiful upstate NY' for a mere $500, door to door, with promise
of one week delivery.[actually took 4 days].
Shop around and you will get a deal in today's market for auto shipping too.
At today's gas prices, you really can't afford not to ship her.
While I am at it; we have had 2 GMC TZE coaches in the past 10 years;
[several SOBs prior to that].
Have traveled all over the USA and piled up well over 40+k miles; never have
we felt the need or urgency for a towd. We visited Kalifornia, Vegas, Grand
Canyon, Hoover, ElPaso, Hot Springs, Chicago, Miami, Atlanta, NewOrleans,
Iowa, New England, Maine, Hershey, Dallas, KC, Tulsa, St Louis, and all the
points between, etc.
I do admit I carry a bicycle, [a $10 purchase at a 'Celebration Army store],
but use it very infrequently; we have seen it all and we don't pay a mileage
penalty [aside from a thirsty 455] of lugging a dead, cumbersome and lethal
load behind. If I can't park my TZE there, I don't need to see it.
We have parked at the rim of the Grand Canyon, in the middle of Basin Street
in NewOrleans, entrance of Cotton Bowl in Dallas, Indy 500 trackside,
preferred parking at Buffalo Bills stadium, campus quadrangle of Notre Dame,
under the arch in St Louis, at curbside of downtown Hot Springs, Ark.,
[where a deli owner whose shop we were blocking came out and ogled our
coach; mouthing the ole 'always wanted one of those' quote], rimside of
Niagara Falls, next to the power dams of St. Lawrence Seaway, etc, etc.
etc.
And we may qualify for life membership in the Wallyworld campgrounds hall of
fame.
In all that time, we were basically carefree travelers.
We had one blowout [hit a sharp piece of angle iron] in Texas, burst one bag
[while parked!], had our share of ethanol and its attendant vapor lock
[once really bad on a hot day at altitude in Arizona] , and one mild
inconvenience in Decatur, Alabamy due to a broken ignition switch.
Everyone is different.
JWWD
George DV
76 Glenbrook 455 HEI Alcoas/Bridgestones
----- Original Message -----
From: "Andrew" <reynhout@quesera.com>
To: <gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org>
Sent: Friday, June 03, 2011 10:56 AM
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Toad-4000lb
>
>
> I've heard recommendations to stay below 3700# with stock gearing. And
> above 2000#, definitely use an assistive brake in the frog. State laws
> vary, but apparently some take it seriously enough to make you decouple
> and impound, or escort to state lines, etc.
>
> I've been told that GMC TZEs never shipped with towing equipment, so all
> hitches are aftermarket. So there's variation in those ratings too.
>
> I'm planning to tow 3200# of Honda CR-V for a cross country move this
> summer. A thousand dollar braking unit (plus a few hundred for bars, etc)
> is not on my list of exciting ways to spend money, but it'd cost even more
> for me to ship the car...
>
> I really like this:
> http://www.gmceast.com/technical/Veenschoten_Toad_Brake.pdf (PDF), but I
> won't have time for that kind of work before our travel plans begin.
>
> --
> 1973 Sequoia 260 (since 2011)
> Savannah, GA
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
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| Re: [GMCnet] Toad-4000lb [message #128516 is a reply to message #128510] |
Fri, 03 June 2011 18:10 |
Andrew
Messages: 213
Registered: April 2011
Location: Connecticut
Karma: 0
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| Robert Mueller wrote on Fri, 03 June 2011 17:29 |
I note "before our travel plans begin" below, are you married? If yes could
your wife drive the Honda and if yes would that be cost effective?
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She could, and it might be....but we have a meandering 5000 miles or so of driving over six weeks. We'd probably both appreciate the company.
Is towing really that bad?
George, we've shipped cars back and forth from MA to CA, and CA to GA. We've never paid less than $1200 each way. I don't really know why, it seemed to be the going rate.
PS: from a pure cost-efficiency standpoint, driving 5000 miles in the Honda would be $800 in gas (25mpg, avg $4/g) plus some measure of wear.
I'm expecting to lose 1-2mpg towing it behind the coach. If you assume it's the difference between 9mpg and 7mpg, that'd be an extra ~150gal, so $600 on the high end...surprisingly close!
$200 won't pay for the braking bits, but they're reusable and theoretically have resale value if we never use them again... :-/
1973 Sequoia 260 (since 2011)
[Updated on: Fri, 03 June 2011 18:24] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: [GMCnet] Toad-4000lb [message #128518 is a reply to message #128516] |
Fri, 03 June 2011 18:37 |
jknezek
Messages: 1057
Registered: December 2007
Karma: 5
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Senior Member |
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When my wife and I moved from FL to AL she drove behind me for 3 days on our meandering path. With the dog with me in the motorhome, those were some boring days for both of us. Especially her since she was limited to following me at 61-64 mph. I don't know how fast you drive on interstates, but I can tell you setting the cruise in a modern car at that speed on an open road is painfully boring...
Thanks,
Jeremy Knezek
1976 Glenbrook
Birmingham, AL
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| Re: [GMCnet] Toad-4000lb [message #128544 is a reply to message #128516] |
Fri, 03 June 2011 22:14 |
Carl S.
Messages: 4186
Registered: January 2009
Location: Tucson, AZ.
Karma: 13
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| Andrew wrote on Fri, 03 June 2011 16:10 |
| Robert Mueller wrote on Fri, 03 June 2011 17:29 |
I note "before our travel plans begin" below, are you married? If yes could
your wife drive the Honda and if yes would that be cost effective?
|
She could, and it might be....but we have a meandering 5000 miles or so of driving over six weeks. We'd probably both appreciate the company.
Is towing really that bad?
George, we've shipped cars back and forth from MA to CA, and CA to GA. We've never paid less than $1200 each way. I don't really know why, it seemed to be the going rate.
PS: from a pure cost-efficiency standpoint, driving 5000 miles in the Honda would be $800 in gas (25mpg, avg $4/g) plus some measure of wear.
I'm expecting to lose 1-2mpg towing it behind the coach. If you assume it's the difference between 9mpg and 7mpg, that'd be an extra ~150gal, so $600 on the high end...surprisingly close!
$200 won't pay for the braking bits, but they're reusable and theoretically have resale value if we never use them again... :-/
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Andrew, Towing is not at all bad. I suspect the majority of us pull a towed vehicle from time to time. You just have to know what you're getting into up front and be aware of certain things (like you can't back up when flat towing). It obviously does affect the gas mileage, but it is lousy anyway, so I don't worry about that.
Here is a link to an album about towing that I did:
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/showgallery.php?cat=5523
Frank, I have towed my Cherokee only once, from Tucson to Quartzsite, a fairly flat route. At the time I had the stock 3.07 final drive and it was no problem. I now have a 3.70 final drive and tow an '03 Four door Tracker at about 3,000 lbs. The difference isn't that noticeable.
One of the reasons I bought a motor home in the first place was to use it to tow my '53 CJ-3B to the sand dunes in SE California (and to have comfortable accommodations while there. The first mods I made to it were a "through the bumper" hitch (built it myself) and a Heyden 30,000# GVW transmission cooler. Although I do not have a trans temp gauge, I monitor my engine temp gauge carefully, especially when towing up a grade. So far, no problems, and my transmission fluid is still nice and red (with about 8,000 miles on it)
Carl Stouffer
'75 ex Palm Beach
Tucson, AZ.
Chuck Aulgur Reaction Arm Disc Brakes, Quadrabags, 3.70 LSD final drive, Lenzi knuckles/hubs, Dodge Truck 16" X 8" front wheels, Rear American Eagles, Solar battery charging. GMCSJ and GMCMI member
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| Re: [GMCnet] Toad-4000lb [message #128575 is a reply to message #128516] |
Sat, 04 June 2011 01:37 |
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mike miller
Messages: 3576
Registered: February 2004
Location: Hillsboro, Oregon
Karma: 0
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| Andrew wrote on Fri, 03 June 2011 16:10 |
... Is towing really that bad?...
.... $200 won't pay for the braking bits, but they're reusable and theoretically have resale value if we never use them again... :-/
|
I would only go through the trouble of setting up a toad, for this move, if you planned on using the towd later. Cost to much to do for only one trip. I have seen used car trailers that do not cost much more than it takes to set up a good "modern" towd!
I know the early CRV's make great towds.
Mike Miller -- Hillsboro, OR -- on the Black list
(#2)`78 23' Birchaven Rear Bath -- (#3)`77 23' Birchaven Side Bath
More Sidekicks than GMC's and a late model Malibu called 'Boo'
http://m000035.blogspot.com
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| Re: [GMCnet] Toad-4000lb [message #128578 is a reply to message #128391] |
Sat, 04 June 2011 05:00 |
Ken Burton
Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana
Karma: 10
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| GMC500 wrote on Thu, 02 June 2011 18:56 |
Does any one tow a 4000 lb vehicle? If so what is your braking, mileage,
hill climbing etc.
--
All the Best
Frank
SW Indiana
"May God Bless"
|
Look who popped up!
How much are you going to load into that Geo to make it to 4,000 pounds.
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
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