Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » [GMCnet] Wheel Bearing Failures
| [GMCnet] Wheel Bearing Failures [message #127925] |
Sun, 29 May 2011 19:32  |
Ken Henderson
Messages: 8726
Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA
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I've recently heard something that surprised me about rear wheel
bearings: Some of them may be subject to failure even when visual &
manual inspection says they're still serviceable. It's possible that
most of the reported failures are due more to the bearings themselves
than improper servicing, as we tend to suspect. Not wanting to bias
any data, I'm not going to mention brand names.
Please, if you've had/have a rear wheel bearing failure, try to
determine the brand of the failed bearing and report it here. If some
brands are failure prone, we need to know it and cull them out of our
coaches. I'll try to catch all the reports and tabulate them
somewhere.
Ken H.
Americus, GA
'76 X-Birchaven w/Cad500/Howell EFI+ & EBL
www.gmcwipersetc.com
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Ken Henderson
Americus, GA
www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
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| Re: [GMCnet] Wheel Bearing Failures [message #127930 is a reply to message #127925] |
Sun, 29 May 2011 19:53  |
bukzin
Messages: 840
Registered: April 2004
Location: North California
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Ken,
No help here, but...
Your question reminds me of my first experience in a GMC coach.
We rented from a dealer on Highland Ave in Hollywood
in 1979 for a tour of the US.
The coach provided transportation and a 'home' for the 5 of
us (a sound company and some light geeks) for three months.
Must have put 30,000 miles on that Palm Beach and just outside
of New Orleans a rear bearing failed.
I burned the hell out of my hand cuz it was so hot!
Found one at a local Cajun shop and carried on, somehow.
Finally bought another coach 25 years later.
Bukzin
1977 Palm Beach
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| Re: [GMCnet] Wheel Bearing Failures [message #127936 is a reply to message #127935] |
Sun, 29 May 2011 20:12 |
Ken Henderson
Messages: 8726
Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA
Karma: 9
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That's a good point, Gord. While collecting data, might as well get
as much as possible.
Please report all the data you have about the failure:
Location (Center/Rear, Port/Starboard)
Miles Since Serviced
Lube Used
Brand (MOST IMPORTANT)
New or Used
Other Comments
Ken H.
Americus, GA
'76 X-Birchaven w/Cad500/Howell EFI+ & EBL
www.gmcwipersetc.com
On Sun, May 29, 2011 at 9:05 PM, Gord H <tze064v1000890@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> If you (and all) wouldn't mind, I would be interested to know if it's the leading or trailing rear wheel which fails?
>
...
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Ken Henderson
Americus, GA
www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
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| Re: [GMCnet] Wheel Bearing Failures [message #127939 is a reply to message #127925] |
Sun, 29 May 2011 20:23 |
James Hupy
Messages: 6806
Registered: May 2010
Karma: -62
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Ken, I have heard of two rear wheel bearing failures here in the great
pacific northwest. One was overtightened. The other was full of metal
shavings from one of those foreign made C/R copy seals that did not have the
correct radius on the inner flange, made contact with the bearing roller
cage and ate it up. More like a seal failure. Kinda like a heat shield tile
being damaged by a piece of styrofoam fuel tank insulation that caused
destruction of the shuttle on reentry at the cost of too many human lives
and a very expensive spacecraft. I believe that they are refered to as
cascading failures. Investigation and problem solving 101.
Jim Hupy
Salem, OR
78 GMC Royale 403
On Sun, May 29, 2011 at 5:32 PM, Ken Henderson <hend4800@bellsouth.net>wrote:
> I've recently heard something that surprised me about rear wheel
> bearings: Some of them may be subject to failure even when visual &
> manual inspection says they're still serviceable. It's possible that
> most of the reported failures are due more to the bearings themselves
> than improper servicing, as we tend to suspect. Not wanting to bias
> any data, I'm not going to mention brand names.
>
> Please, if you've had/have a rear wheel bearing failure, try to
> determine the brand of the failed bearing and report it here. If some
> brands are failure prone, we need to know it and cull them out of our
> coaches. I'll try to catch all the reports and tabulate them
> somewhere.
>
> Ken H.
> Americus, GA
> '76 X-Birchaven w/Cad500/Howell EFI+ & EBL
> www.gmcwipersetc.com
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
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| Re: [GMCnet] Wheel Bearing Failures [message #127941 is a reply to message #127936] |
Sun, 29 May 2011 20:29 |
 |
USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
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Ken,
I know this "ain't much help" but last year when Double Trouble had a wheel
bearing failure it was:
Location: Center / Pax
Miles Since Serviced: Unknown
Lube Used: Hard to tell but reasonably confident it was Mobil 1
Brand: IIRC Not Timken
New / Used: Probably used
Other Comments: The center axles on Double Trouble have Caddy calipers. This
is the bogie that Jason, down at the COOP noted was a bit "loose."
Regards,
Rob M.
USAussie - Downunder
AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
-----Original Message-----
From: gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org
[mailto:gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of Ken Henderson
Sent: Monday, May 30, 2011 11:13 AM
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Wheel Bearing Failures
That's a good point, Gord. While collecting data, might as well get
as much as possible.
Please report all the data you have about the failure:
Location (Center/Rear, Port/Starboard)
Miles Since Serviced
Lube Used
Brand (MOST IMPORTANT)
New or Used
Other Comments
Ken H.
Americus, GA
'76 X-Birchaven w/Cad500/Howell EFI+ & EBL
www.gmcwipersetc.com
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Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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| Re: [GMCnet] Wheel Bearing Failures [message #128222 is a reply to message #128159] |
Wed, 01 June 2011 18:09 |
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USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
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Senior Member |
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Phil,
Well, well, well it looks like we've struck a product I too would NOT buy
from China! I am going to agree with you except I would not install bearings
"Made in Japan" either.
I was advised by one of the most respected members of the GMC community that
he brought his GMC to one of the well known GMC specialty shops to have his
front wheel bearings serviced. He specifically requested Timken Set 23 with
0.090 clearances. The shop disregarded his request and installed a set of
Japanese bearings. They burned out and ruined his hubs and knuckles. The
shop refused to take responsibility and it wound up costing him a MOTSA
(lots of money in Strine) to replace all the parts.
IIRC Timken bearings have "Made in USA" etched into the side of the races.
Regards,
Rob M.
USAussie - Downunder
AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
PS - Strine = What Australians speak
-----Original Message-----
From: gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org
[mailto:gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of Phil Swanson
Sent: Thursday, June 02, 2011 12:44 AM
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Wheel Bearing Failures
Can't trust brands much since allot of this stuff gets reboxed and
contracted out to China. I would try to find older "Made in USA" bearings
or "Made in Japan" ones, regardless of brand. NAFTA continues to screw up
quality.
Phil Swanson
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Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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| Re: [GMCnet] Wheel Bearing Failures [message #128257 is a reply to message #128226] |
Wed, 01 June 2011 22:25 |
jimk
Messages: 6734
Registered: July 2006
Location: Belmont, CA
Karma: 9
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Senior Member |
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I can tell you that the shop that instaled a front bearing that burned
up had no clue to check for bearing clearance after it is pressed
together.
Most luck out.
If bearings from Japan was that bad, why does all those J cars run so well?
That shop does not take time to check for clearance. I don't mean the
one they etch, it does not matter as the moment of truth is when the
bearing set is pushed on the hub.
I would say 70% of you have no idea about what I'm saying here.
Look at our vidio with Ken Thoma and see how he checks for clearance
after the bearings are pressed on the hub.
Bearings burn up due to lack of clearance when new.
Roland Wilber of Oregon would never purchase a Timken bearing, he
insisted on the Bower.
Since he knew how to set it up correctly, he never had a comeback.
On Wed, Jun 1, 2011 at 4:41 PM, Tom Henderson <willietrucker@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> Here is a website I have been using to locate "Made in America" products.
>
> There are several wheel bearing manufacturers still making wheel bearings in the USA. Unsure if any of these companies would have an application for our GMC's but it's worth a try.
>
> https://www.madeinusa.com/?page=searchbus
> --
> Tom Henderson
> Elgin, TX
> '76 Birchaven 23'
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--
Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC, Fremont,CA
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
http://www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
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Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
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| Re: [GMCnet] Wheel Bearing Failures [message #128278 is a reply to message #128222] |
Thu, 02 June 2011 07:42 |
fred v
Messages: 999
Registered: April 2006
Location: pensacola, fl.
Karma: 0
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| Robert Mueller wrote on Wed, 01 June 2011 18:09 |
Phil,
He specifically requested Timken Set 23 with
0.090 clearances.
Regards,
Rob M.
USAussie - Downunder
AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
PS - Strine = What Australians speak
|
.090" clearance? now there's the problem!
LOL
Fred V
'77 Royale RB 455
P'cola, Fl
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| Re: [GMCnet] Wheel Bearing Failures [message #128299 is a reply to message #128278] |
Thu, 02 June 2011 09:28 |
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USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
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Senior Member |
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Fred,
Oops!
That's what I get for not double checking!
Should be Timken Set 23 with 0.0095 clearance.
The reason I mentioned this is because the Toronado used the same bearing
set but the clearance was set to 0.0045 - I THINK!
The spacer will have the clearance etched into it.
Regards,
Rob M.
USAussie - Downunder
AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
-----Original Message-----
From: gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org
[mailto:gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of fred veenschoten
Sent: Thursday, June 02, 2011 10:43 PM
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Wheel Bearing Failures
Robert Mueller wrote on Wed, 01 June 2011 18:09
> Phil,
>
> He specifically requested Timken Set 23 with
> 0.090 clearances.
>
> Regards,
> Rob M.
> USAussie - Downunder
> AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
> USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
>
> PS - Strine = What Australians speak
.090" clearance? now there's the problem!
LOL
--
Fred V
'77 Royale RB 455
P'cola, Fl
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Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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| Re: [GMCnet] Wheel Bearing Failures [message #128306 is a reply to message #128278] |
Thu, 02 June 2011 10:11 |
jimk
Messages: 6734
Registered: July 2006
Location: Belmont, CA
Karma: 9
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Senior Member |
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The initial clearance means nothing till the bearing is pressed on the hub.
If one does not understand that then I know one day they will be in
for a rude awaking.
Need to understand I go back to 1980 when this was a common problem
and was constant challenge till the problem was some what solved by
increasing the initial clearance at the factory.
The problem is the hubs, as the size is not consistent.
I understand the person requested Timken, but I have seen failier with
them as well when they had no clue about clearance after assembly.
The clearance of most A 23 sets are about the same.
Knowing the shops, they requested a brand and it was not available, so
that is what happens at majority of shops, Fortunately we do not have
problems in that area as our inventory is generally over stocked.
On Thu, Jun 2, 2011 at 5:42 AM, fred veenschoten <fredntoni@cox.net> wrote:
>
>
> Robert Mueller wrote on Wed, 01 June 2011 18:09
>> Phil,
>>
>> He specifically requested Timken Set 23 with
>> 0.090 clearances.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Rob M.
>> USAussie - Downunder
>> AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
>> USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
>>
>> PS - Strine = What Australians speak
>
> .090" clearance? now there's the problem!
> LOL
>
> --
> Fred V
> '77 Royale RB 455
> P'cola, Fl
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
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--
Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC, Fremont,CA
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
http://www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
_______________________________________________
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Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
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| Re: [GMCnet] Wheel Bearing Failures [message #128388 is a reply to message #128306] |
Thu, 02 June 2011 18:43 |
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USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
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Senior Member |
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Jim,
This is why I bought BOTH sets of hubs and knuckles from Dave Lenzi!
Regards,
Rob M.
USAussie - Downunder
AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
-----Original Message-----
From: gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org
[mailto:gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of Jim Kanomata
Sent: Friday, June 03, 2011 1:11 AM
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Wheel Bearing Failures
The initial clearance means nothing till the bearing is pressed on the hub.
If one does not understand that then I know one day they will be in
for a rude awaking.
Need to understand I go back to 1980 when this was a common problem
and was constant challenge till the problem was some what solved by
increasing the initial clearance at the factory.
The problem is the hubs, as the size is not consistent.
I understand the person requested Timken, but I have seen failier with
them as well when they had no clue about clearance after assembly.
The clearance of most A 23 sets are about the same.
Knowing the shops, they requested a brand and it was not available, so
that is what happens at majority of shops, Fortunately we do not have
problems in that area as our inventory is generally over stocked.
--
Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC, Fremont,CA
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
http://www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
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_______________________________________________
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Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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| Re: [GMCnet] Wheel Bearing Failures [message #128412 is a reply to message #127925] |
Thu, 02 June 2011 21:52 |
fred v
Messages: 999
Registered: April 2006
Location: pensacola, fl.
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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i had a rear brg. fail. it say US made. cannot make out the name; maybe NDH??
i change all the rear brg. when i bought the coach in '06 with the exception of this one because it looked good. a shop later over tightened it and it failed about a year later '09??. it was located on the center right wheel.
Fred V
'77 Royale RB 455
P'cola, Fl
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