Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » [GMCnet] brakes question
| [GMCnet] brakes question [message #127588] |
Thu, 26 May 2011 20:32  |
KB
Messages: 1262
Registered: September 2009
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So, as soon as Manny gets me a 1-ton kit, I'll be upgrading the front end
of our '75 coach. It occurred to me that I'll then have a set of OEM
calipers and rotors left over. Is it possible/reasonable to mount these in the rear
in place of the center set of drum brakes?? If yes, is it difficult? Any pictures??
thanks,
Karen
1973 23'
1975 26'
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1975 26'
San Jose, CA
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| Re: [GMCnet] brakes question [message #127610 is a reply to message #127588] |
Thu, 26 May 2011 22:26  |
jimk
Messages: 6734
Registered: July 2006
Location: Belmont, CA
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You can use the rotor and caliper , we have the caliper stand and the
small spacer.
On Thu, May 26, 2011 at 6:32 PM, KB <kab7@sonic.net> wrote:
> So, as soon as Manny gets me a 1-ton kit, I'll be upgrading the front end
> of our '75 coach. Â It occurred to me that I'll then have a set of OEM
> calipers and rotors left over. Â Is it possible/reasonable to mount these in the rear
> in place of the center set of drum brakes?? Â If yes, is it difficult? Â Any pictures??
>
> thanks,
> Karen
> 1973 23'
> 1975 26'
> _______________________________________________
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Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC, Fremont,CA
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
http://www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
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| Re: [GMCnet] brakes question [message #127619 is a reply to message #127610] |
Thu, 26 May 2011 23:57 |
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USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
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Jim,
Karen will also have to modify the parking brake cable system will she not?
Regards,
Rob M.
USAussie - Downunder
AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
-----Original Message-----
From: gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org
[mailto:gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of Jim Kanomata
Sent: Friday, May 27, 2011 1:27 PM
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] brakes question
You can use the rotor and caliper , we have the caliper stand and the
small spacer.
--
Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC, Fremont,CA
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
http://www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
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Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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| Re: [GMCnet] brakes question [message #127714 is a reply to message #127667] |
Sat, 28 May 2011 00:31 |
jimk
Messages: 6734
Registered: July 2006
Location: Belmont, CA
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Karen,
When we did the series of brake tests here with different systems, we
were finding that the units that had a drum in the rear and disc on
the intermediate started fading on the drum after couple hard stops
and few times the rear dragged as the front disc on the big rotors of
Harrison unit lifted the rear end to the max.
We saw less of that using the disc disc units.
Since we are almost getting to where we are going to be supplying a
good mechanical parking system, we should drop the idea of using drums
in the rear for parking brake and go all caliper with disc.
The maintenance of the all disc is so simple that our guys like doing
a maintenance check on my coach before my trips.
They refuse to give me green light on the engine as they know I'll mess it up.
On Fri, May 27, 2011 at 1:55 PM, KB <kab7@sonic.net> wrote:
> Thanks Jim!
>
>> You can use the rotor and caliper , we have the caliper stand and the
>> small spacer.
> _______________________________________________
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--
Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC, Fremont,CA
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
http://www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
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Jim Kanomata
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jimk@appliedairfilters.com
www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
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| Re: [GMCnet] brakes question [message #127777 is a reply to message #127588] |
Sat, 28 May 2011 13:41 |
KB
Messages: 1262
Registered: September 2009
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Thanks Jim. I'm guessing using the OEM front disks on the rear should
be similar to the Eldorado junkyard conversion. Unfortunately, all the
links I've seen on how to do that are broken :-(
I've seen vague mention of using a proportioning valve between
the middle and rear wheels when converting only the middles to disk brakes.
Would that help with the rear drum fade? I'd really like to leverage
the parts I already have if that's a viable solution.
I agree disk brakes are so much better. I've started to really hate
drum brakes as they're a PITA to work on, and need constant attention.
I doubt the rear drums alone would be enough to hold as a parking brake
since it's not great even with 4 rear drums. I was thinking line locks,
but maybe there's a better way coming along.
thanks,
Karen
1973 23'
1975 26'
> When we did the series of brake tests here with different systems, we
> were finding that the units that had a drum in the rear and disc on
> the intermediate started fading on the drum after couple hard stops
> and few times the rear dragged as the front disc on the big rotors of
> Harrison unit lifted the rear end to the max.
> We saw less of that using the disc disc units.
> Since we are almost getting to where we are going to be supplying a
> good mechanical parking system, we should drop the idea of using drums
> in the rear for parking brake and go all caliper with disc.
> The maintenance of the all disc is so simple that our guys like doing
> a maintenance check on my coach before my trips.
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Karen
1975 26'
San Jose, CA
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| Re: [GMCnet] brakes question [message #127797 is a reply to message #127777] |
Sat, 28 May 2011 15:25 |
powerjon
Messages: 2446
Registered: January 2004
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Karen,
Here are some links on how and what parts can be used if you wanted to
use Cadillac parts.
http://gmcmotorhomeinfo.com/brakes.html#CAD
The second link is the replacement for the pictures that were
referenced on Gene's site.
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/showgallery.php?cat=3119
Jim K also sells a very good, very complete disk brake conversion kit
that works well if you don't want to spend the time to round up the
parts.
J.R. Wright
GMC GreatLaker
TZE Zone Restorations
78 Buskirk 30' Stretch
1975 Avion (Under Reconstruction)
Michigan
On May 28, 2011, at 2:41 PM, KB wrote:
> Thanks Jim. I'm guessing using the OEM front disks on the rear should
> be similar to the Eldorado junkyard conversion. Unfortunately, all the
> links I've seen on how to do that are broken :-(
>
> I've seen vague mention of using a proportioning valve between
> the middle and rear wheels when converting only the middles to disk
> brakes.
> Would that help with the rear drum fade? I'd really like to leverage
> the parts I already have if that's a viable solution.
>
> I agree disk brakes are so much better. I've started to really hate
> drum brakes as they're a PITA to work on, and need constant attention.
> I doubt the rear drums alone would be enough to hold as a parking
> brake
> since it's not great even with 4 rear drums. I was thinking line
> locks,
> but maybe there's a better way coming along.
>
> thanks,
> Karen
> 1973 23'
> 1975 26'
>
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J.R. Wright
GMC GreatLaker
GMC Eastern States
GMCMI
78 30' Buskirk Stretch
75 Avion Under Reconstruction
Michigan
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| Re: [GMCnet] brakes question [message #127812 is a reply to message #127588] |
Sat, 28 May 2011 17:23 |
KB
Messages: 1262
Registered: September 2009
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Thanks John! That's one of the links I really wanted to see, but the reference on
Gene's site is broken.
So here's a really dumb question: what do you do for bearings/hubs in all
these retrofits? I can't figure it out from any of the descriptions I've seen.
There are pictures of rotors, and then pictures of completed assemblies, but
nothing in between.
One of the complete kits would be great, but the moment, I have a lot more time than money.
thanks,
Karen
> Here are some links on how and what parts can be used if you wanted to
> use Cadillac parts.
>
> http://gmcmotorhomeinfo.com/brakes.html#CAD
>
> The second link is the replacement for the pictures that were
> referenced on Gene's site.
>
> http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/showgallery.php?cat=3119
>
> Jim K also sells a very good, very complete disk brake conversion kit
> that works well if you don't want to spend the time to round up the
> parts.
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Karen
1975 26'
San Jose, CA
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| Re: [GMCnet] brakes question [message #127830 is a reply to message #127812] |
Sat, 28 May 2011 18:50 |
jimk
Messages: 6734
Registered: July 2006
Location: Belmont, CA
Karma: 9
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Karen,
Your point is well taken re the combination valve.
In this case it might be a good idea to use our Disc/Disc combination valve.
All our kits come with the valves as you need to know when you have a
failer of the system.
On Sat, May 28, 2011 at 3:23 PM, KB <kab7@sonic.net> wrote:
> Thanks John! Â That's one of the links I really wanted to see, but the reference on
> Gene's site is broken.
>
> So here's a really dumb question: Â what do you do for bearings/hubs in all
> these retrofits? Â I can't figure it out from any of the descriptions I've seen.
> There are pictures of rotors, and then pictures of completed assemblies, but
> nothing in between.
>
> One of the complete kits would be great, but the moment, I have a lot more time than money.
>
> thanks,
> Karen
>
>
>> Here are some links on how and what parts can be used if you wanted to
>> use Cadillac parts.
>>
>> http://gmcmotorhomeinfo.com/brakes.html#CAD
>>
>> The second link is the replacement for the pictures that were
>> referenced on Gene's site.
>>
>> http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/showgallery.php?cat=3119
>>
>> Jim K also sells a very good, very complete disk brake conversion kit
>> that works well if you don't want to spend the time to round up the
>> parts.
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
--
Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC, Fremont,CA
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
http://www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
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Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
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| Re: [GMCnet] brakes question [message #127834 is a reply to message #127812] |
Sat, 28 May 2011 19:05 |
powerjon
Messages: 2446
Registered: January 2004
Karma: 5
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Senior Member |
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Karen,
You remove the brake drums and install the re-drilled rotors on the
hubs as shown in the pictures. You can get re-drilled rotors from Jim
K.
JR Wright
On May 28, 2011, at 6:23 PM, KB wrote:
> Thanks John! That's one of the links I really wanted to see, but
> the reference on
> Gene's site is broken.
>
> So here's a really dumb question: what do you do for bearings/hubs
> in all
> these retrofits? I can't figure it out from any of the descriptions
> I've seen.
> There are pictures of rotors, and then pictures of completed
> assemblies, but
> nothing in between.
>
> One of the complete kits would be great, but the moment, I have a
> lot more time than money.
>
> thanks,
> Karen
>
>
>> Here are some links on how and what parts can be used if you wanted
>> to
>> use Cadillac parts.
>>
>> http://gmcmotorhomeinfo.com/brakes.html#CAD
>>
>> The second link is the replacement for the pictures that were
>> referenced on Gene's site.
>>
>> http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/showgallery.php?cat=3119
>>
>> Jim K also sells a very good, very complete disk brake conversion kit
>> that works well if you don't want to spend the time to round up the
>> parts.
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
J.R. Wright
GMC GreatLaker
GMC Eastern States
GMCMI
78 30' Buskirk Stretch
75 Avion Under Reconstruction
Michigan
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| Re: [GMCnet] brakes question [message #127838 is a reply to message #127777] |
Sat, 28 May 2011 19:44 |
|
USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
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Senior Member |
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Karen,
Double Trouble has:
P-30 Master Cylinder
ATE DOT 4 Brake Fluid
Sensitized booster from Jim B with two vacuum ports / check valves
Auxiliary vacuum pump mounted to the top of the radiator frame
Stainless steel brake line kit
Brass combination valve from Jim B in the drivers wheel well
Braided stainless steel hoses to all calipers / wheel cylinders
Caddy calipers / Performance Friction Carbon Metallic pads / OEM disks on
the front axles
Caddy caliper / Performance Friction Carbon Metallic pads / Caddy disks on
the middle axles
OEM drums on the rear axles
Note: I have two new drums, new Carbon Metallic shoes, and a new
spring kit which I will install next trip to the USA.
When Dan Gregg drove Double Trouble he was REALLY impressed with the way it
stopped.
Personally I reckon this is as good as it gets WITHOUT installing the
reaction arm system.
One could make the argument that installing disk brakes on the rear would
help brake fade but then you have to deal with the problem of not having a
mechanical parking brake and locking up the rear wheels under hard braking.
Regards,
Rob M.
USAussie - Downunder
AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
-----Original Message-----
From: gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org
[mailto:gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of KB
Sent: Sunday, May 29, 2011 4:41 AM
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] brakes question
Thanks Jim. I'm guessing using the OEM front disks on the rear should
be similar to the Eldorado junkyard conversion. Unfortunately, all the
links I've seen on how to do that are broken :-(
I've seen vague mention of using a proportioning valve between
the middle and rear wheels when converting only the middles to disk brakes.
Would that help with the rear drum fade? I'd really like to leverage
the parts I already have if that's a viable solution.
I agree disk brakes are so much better. I've started to really hate
drum brakes as they're a PITA to work on, and need constant attention.
I doubt the rear drums alone would be enough to hold as a parking brake
since it's not great even with 4 rear drums. I was thinking line locks,
but maybe there's a better way coming along.
thanks,
Karen
1973 23'
1975 26'
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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| Re: [GMCnet] brakes question [message #127847 is a reply to message #127777] |
Sat, 28 May 2011 20:46 |
78 Barbi
Messages: 80
Registered: August 2004
Location: Tiverton, Ontario , Canad...
Karma: -1
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Hi Karen,
You might want to review the two section powerpoint presentation given at the International rally in Patterson, LA recently. The two sections are labeled as Drum brake improvements and Disc brake improvements. Some of the data may assist you in making a decision on which combination to choose.
Cheers......Albert Branscombe
http://www.bdub.net/branscombe
78 Barbi
The 23' Birchaven
Tiverton, ON
[Updated on: Sat, 28 May 2011 20:50] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: [GMCnet] brakes question [message #127854 is a reply to message #127847] |
Sat, 28 May 2011 21:50 |
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USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
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Senior Member |
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Albert,
I must apologize; I forgot about the data you provided in your presentation
at Patterson!
I would like to revise the final sentence of my previous message regarding
this subject:
FROM:
Personally I reckon this is as good as it gets WITHOUT installing the
reaction arm system.
TO:
Personally I reckon this is as good as it gets WITHOUT installing the
reaction arm system with Kelsey - Hayes calipers on the rearmost axles.
Regards,
Rob M.
USAussie - Downunder
AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
-----Original Message-----
From: gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org
[mailto:gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of Albert&Sheila
Branscombe
Sent: Sunday, May 29, 2011 11:47 AM
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] brakes question
Hi Karen,
You might want to review the two section powerpoint presentation given at
the International rally in Patterson, LA recently. The two sections are
labeled as Drum brake improvements and Disc brake improvements. Some of the
data may assist you in making a decision on which combination to choose.
Cheers......Albert Branscombe
http:www.bdub.net/branscombe
78 Barbi
The 23' Birchaven
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Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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| Re: [GMCnet] brakes question [message #127895 is a reply to message #127588] |
Sun, 29 May 2011 13:08 |
KB
Messages: 1262
Registered: September 2009
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Thanks Rob. Is the combination valve a replacement for the OEM one, or
in addition to it to separate the rear discs from the rear drums?
thanks,
Karen
>
> Double Trouble has:
>
> P-30 Master Cylinder
>
> ATE DOT 4 Brake Fluid
>
> Sensitized booster from Jim B with two vacuum ports / check valves
>
> Auxiliary vacuum pump mounted to the top of the radiator frame
>
> Stainless steel brake line kit
>
> Brass combination valve from Jim B in the drivers wheel well
>
> Braided stainless steel hoses to all calipers / wheel cylinders
>
> Caddy calipers / Performance Friction Carbon Metallic pads / OEM disks on
> the front axles
>
> Caddy caliper / Performance Friction Carbon Metallic pads / Caddy disks on
> the middle axles
>
> OEM drums on the rear axles
> Note: I have two new drums, new Carbon Metallic shoes, and a new
> spring kit which I will install next trip to the USA.
>
> When Dan Gregg drove Double Trouble he was REALLY impressed with the way it
> stopped.
>
> Personally I reckon this is as good as it gets WITHOUT installing the
> reaction arm system.
>
> One could make the argument that installing disk brakes on the rear would
> help brake fade but then you have to deal with the problem of not having a
> mechanical parking brake and locking up the rear wheels under hard braking.
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
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Karen
1975 26'
San Jose, CA
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| Re: [GMCnet] brakes question [message #127897 is a reply to message #127847] |
Sun, 29 May 2011 13:37 |
jimk
Messages: 6734
Registered: July 2006
Location: Belmont, CA
Karma: 9
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Senior Member |
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Karen,
You can go look for a rear back plate from a Eldorado/Toronado or we
can quote you on the component parts.
Our component parts are usable should you go to the Reaction arm
system later. We credit you for the parts that will be replaced.
On Sat, May 28, 2011 at 6:46 PM, Albert&Sheila Branscombe
<branscoa@bmts.com> wrote:
>
>
> Hi Karen,
> Â You might want to review the two section powerpoint presentation given at the International rally in Patterson, LA recently. The two sections are labeled as Drum brake improvements and Disc brake improvements. Â Some of the data may assist you in making a decision on which combination to choose.
> Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Cheers......Albert Branscombe
>
> http:www.bdub.net/branscombe
>
> 78 Barbi
> The 23' Birchaven
> Tiverton, ON
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
--
Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC, Fremont,CA
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
http://www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
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Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
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| Re: [GMCnet] brakes question [message #127913 is a reply to message #127895] |
Sun, 29 May 2011 17:50 |
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USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
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Senior Member |
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Karen,
When a PO converted Double Trouble to Caddy disks on the rear he removed the
original combination valve completely.
When I replaced the rusty old brake lines with stainless steel they came
bent to include a combination valve.
Jim B and I discussed it and we decided to try installing a new brass
combination valve and see what happened as it would be easier than
re-bending the lines to eliminate it.
It works fine.
I do not know what size wheel cylinders Ken Frey put on when he removed the
rear disks and installed the drums so I could have an "Emergency" brake and
pass New Jersey inspection. I will find out the next time I'm back there
when I replace the rears with all new parts.
Regards,
Rob M.
USAussie - Downunder
AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
-----Original Message-----
From: gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org
[mailto:gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of KB
Sent: Monday, May 30, 2011 4:08 AM
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] brakes question
Thanks Rob. Is the combination valve a replacement for the OEM one, or
in addition to it to separate the rear discs from the rear drums?
thanks,
Karen
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
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Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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| Re: [GMCnet] brakes question [message #127914 is a reply to message #127588] |
Sun, 29 May 2011 17:56 |
KB
Messages: 1262
Registered: September 2009
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Thanks Jim. Given that I'd have to get machining done on the Eldorado
plates, assuming I can even find them, I think your solution is
a better idea. I'd love a quote on the parts. I bet a lot of
other folks going to the 1-ton would consider this too, so maybe a
"move the front discs/rotors to the rear" kit would be useful.
thanks,
Karen
> You can go look for a rear back plate from a Eldorado/Toronado or we
> can quote you on the component parts.
> Our component parts are usable should you go to the Reaction arm
> system later. We credit you for the parts that will be replaced.
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Karen
1975 26'
San Jose, CA
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| Re: [GMCnet] brakes question [message #127915 is a reply to message #127914] |
Sun, 29 May 2011 18:05 |
Ken Henderson
Messages: 8726
Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA
Karma: 9
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Senior Member |
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If anyone needs them, I've got one set of Eldorado backing plates
already remachined -- and used on my coach for 50,000 miles or so. I
replaced them with the more sturdy caliper mounts Terry Skinner used
to make. Then I replaced those, for larger (OEM) calipers, with some
of JimK's. I never had trouble with the backing plates, but the
caliper mounts are a more "elegant" solution.
Ken H.
Americus, GA
'76 X-Birchaven w/Cad500/Howell EFI+ & EBL
www.gmcwipersetc.com
On Sun, May 29, 2011 at 6:56 PM, KB <kab7@sonic.net> wrote:
> Thanks Jim. Given that I'd have to get machining done on the Eldorado
> plates, assuming I can even find them, I think your solution is
> a better idea. I'd love a quote on the parts. I bet a lot of
> other folks going to the 1-ton would consider this too, so maybe a
> "move the front discs/rotors to the rear" kit would be useful.
>
> thanks,
> Karen
>
>> You can go look for a rear back plate from a Eldorado/Toronado or we
>> can quote you on the component parts.
>> Our component parts are usable should you go to the Reaction arm
>> system later. We credit you for the parts that will be replaced.
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
Ken Henderson
Americus, GA
www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
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