Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » does synthetic trans fluid lower temps?
| does synthetic trans fluid lower temps? [message #121210] |
Thu, 07 April 2011 12:36  |
hertfordnc
Messages: 1164
Registered: September 2009
Location: East NC
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First, do not take for granted the civility on this forum.
I found a thread on this topic over on the rv.net towing forum but they act like thugs to each other so it's difficult to extract meaningful information.
Someone there suggested that synthetic fluid actually dumps heat better then regular trans fluid and remains cooler.
THen someone else suggested he was an ininformed moron and that synthetic fluids only TOLERATE heat better.
As i plan to keep my eys glued to a trans temp gauge I am less interested in the latter.
THanks
Dave & Ellen Silva
Hertford, NC
76 Birchaven, 1-ton and other stuff
Currently planning the Great american Road Trip Summer 2021
It's gonna take a lot of Adderall to get this thing right.
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| Re: [GMCnet] does synthetic trans fluid lower temps? [message #121212 is a reply to message #121210] |
Thu, 07 April 2011 12:41  |
jimk
Messages: 6734
Registered: July 2006
Location: Belmont, CA
Karma: 9
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The syn fluid provoids better lubercation to the gears and reduce the temp.
There are wat is known as friction modifiers that help the clotch
plates perform bettter.
That is the primary differance between Ford and GM.
On Thu, Apr 7, 2011 at 10:36 AM, dave silva <admin@oldrv.net> wrote:
>
>
> First, do not take for granted the civility on this forum.
>
> I found a thread on this topic over on the rv.net towing forum but they act like thugs to each other so it's difficult to extract meaningful information.
>
> Someone there suggested that synthetic fluid actually dumps heat better then regular trans fluid and remains cooler.
>
> THen someone else suggested he was an ininformed moron and that synthetic fluids only TOLERATE heat better.
>
> As i plan to keep my eys glued to a trans temp gauge I am less interested in the latter.
>
> THanks
> --
> Dave & Ellen Silva
>
>
> Check out the website:
>
> http://www.oldrv.net
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
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--
Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC, Fremont,CA
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
http://www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
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Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
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| Re: does synthetic trans fluid lower temps? [message #121287 is a reply to message #121279] |
Thu, 07 April 2011 22:33 |
Ken Burton
Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana
Karma: 10
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If you read all of the Hype then synthetics will do everything including cure lumbago and fry your eggs sunny side up while keeping your orange juice cold.
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
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| Re: does synthetic trans fluid lower temps? [message #121288 is a reply to message #121210] |
Thu, 07 April 2011 23:54 |
Chr$
Messages: 2690
Registered: January 2004
Location: Scottsdale, AZ
Karma: 1
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Then Why doesn't Manny fill the tranny with that when he rebuilds them????
-Chr$: Perpetual SmartAss
Scottsdale, AZ
77 Ex-Kingsley 455 SOLD!
2010 Nomad 24 Ft TT 390W PV W/MPPT, EV4010 and custom cargo door.
Photosite: Chrisc GMC:"It has Begun" TT: "The Other Woman"
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| Re: [GMCnet] does synthetic trans fluid lower temps? [message #121296 is a reply to message #121288] |
Fri, 08 April 2011 06:51 |
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USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
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Chris,
I'm confused!
As noted earlier Manny told me to use Mobil 1 Synthetic Transmission fluid,
did he tell you something different?
Regards,
Rob M.
USAussie - Downunder
AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
-----Original Message-----
From: gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org
[mailto:gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of Chris Choffat
Sent: Thursday, April 07, 2011 10:55 PM
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] does synthetic trans fluid lower temps?
Then Why doesn't Manny fill the tranny with that when he rebuilds them????
--
-Chr$: Perpetual SmartAss
77 Ex-Kingsley 455, Power Drive, 3:21 FD, Quadra bag. The Engineer's
Motorhome
Scottsdale, AZ
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Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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| Re: does synthetic trans fluid lower temps? [message #121299 is a reply to message #121210] |
Fri, 08 April 2011 07:09 |
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Matt Colie
Messages: 8547
Registered: March 2007
Location: S.E. Michigan
Karma: 7
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| hertfordnc wrote on Thu, 07 April 2011 13:36 |
First, do not take for granted the civility on this forum.
I found a thread on this topic over on the rv.net towing forum but they act like thugs to each other so it's difficult to extract meaningful information.
Someone there suggested that synthetic fluid actually dumps heat better then regular trans fluid and remains cooler.
THen someone else suggested he was an ininformed moron and that synthetic fluids only TOLERATE heat better.
As i plan to keep my eyes glued to a trans temp gauge I am less interested in the latter.
Thanks
Dave
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Dave,
First and directly relating to the thread subject:
There is no real difference in the viscosity or specific heat that would make for better heat transfer with any synthetic. In a transmission of this design there are two major heat inputs, the torque converter and the oil pump.
The torque converter heat input is very much proportional to slip, so it will be greater towing or climbing.
The oil pump is not at all like an engine oil pump that supplies oil primarily for cooling and lubrication. The trans pump mostly is supplying oil that is a working fluid for the framistans and flibijibits that make that all the gears shift and still has to pump enough to overfill the torque converter to keep it cool. So it has to pump about a horsepower worth and that goes to heat.
If someone says he saw a significant decease in his transmission temperature when he switched to a synthetic, just nod, mumble something a walk away. If there is a difference, I defy anybody to validate it outside of a carefully controlled laboratory.
Continued explanation for those that care:
If he changed the fluid and did not complete disassemble the trans and drain the torque converter and all the servos, he has changed only about half the fluid. He does not have what he thinks he has, but maybe the new fluid cleaned the cooler a little bit - maybe.
As a multi-decade Detroit lab rat that specialized in power train testing I am in the interesting yet worthless position of having some first hand knowledge of test results.
I have run tests that you could not imagine. Things like thermocouples in piston rings, high speed photography of moving valve gear and an engine with only triple distilled water in the crankcase - just for starters. For most of it, I had extensive analytical laboratory backup.
The lubrication industry uses a four ball test as a screening tool - synthetics do better than most. In running engine boundary lubrication tests - where lube oil flow is so reduced that failure in imminent - synthetics do well again. In running power train durability, we were forced by some conditions to go to synthetics just for the temperature resistance.
The only difference the only real difference in use between a conventional refined (dino) lubricant and a synthetic that is the reformulation allows higher temperature resistance. All conventional lubricants break down a 305*F. This is not a time/temperature thing. When an oil molecule gets to 305*F, it comes apart and is no longer what it was. The products often are both poor lubricators and may be corrosive. This temperature is easily reached in internal combustion engines, but not so easily in transmissions, but it can still happen.
A related advantage that the synthetics get is a greater resistance to oxidation. This creates byproducts that are very much like those that overheating creates.
These two advantages are what make the coach service a good candidate for synthetics. If your driveline is like mine, it is either idle or at high load. Coaches like mine and yard equipment that is either running flat out or rusting are the places where synthetics become an advantage.
Matt
Matt & Mary Colie - Chaumière -'73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan with OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Near DTW - Twixt A2 and Detroit
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| Re: [GMCnet] does synthetic trans fluid lower temps? [message #121305 is a reply to message #121296] |
Fri, 08 April 2011 07:15 |
emerystora
Messages: 4442
Registered: January 2004
Karma: 13
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Senior Member |
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When Manny shipped me one in Oct 2009 it was filled with Mobil 1 fluid.
Emery Stora
On Apr 8, 2011, at 5:51 AM, Rob Mueller <robmueller@iinet.net.au> wrote:
> Chris,
>
> I'm confused!
>
> As noted earlier Manny told me to use Mobil 1 Synthetic Transmission
> fluid,
> did he tell you something different?
>
> Regards,
> Rob M.
> USAussie - Downunder
> AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
> USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org
> [mailto:gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of Chris Choffat
> Sent: Thursday, April 07, 2011 10:55 PM
> To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
> Subject: Re: [GMCnet] does synthetic trans fluid lower temps?
>
>
>
> Then Why doesn't Manny fill the tranny with that when he rebuilds
> them????
> --
> -Chr$: Perpetual SmartAss
> 77 Ex-Kingsley 455, Power Drive, 3:21 FD, Quadra bag. The Engineer's
> Motorhome
> Scottsdale, AZ
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
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| Re: does synthetic trans fluid lower temps? [message #121313 is a reply to message #121299] |
Fri, 08 April 2011 08:17 |
Ernest Dankert
Messages: 133
Registered: May 2007
Location: Ogden, New York
Karma: 1
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Senior Member |
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I would like to expand upon your discussion of syn oil.
The weak link in transmissions moves from the oil degradation to elastomer failure, seals become brittle.
I seem to recall someone mentioning changing transmission fluid every 12,000 miles as recommended in the service manual.
Expanding the discussion to engines.....
I have 6 vehicles, changing once a year is simpler and cost effective for me.
The lubrication properties of syn are superior, in the event of line failure, coolant leak, or cold weather the lube benefit is of value. I had a head gasket failure and have a '98 350 with cold start knock.
My 403 has "flat" tappets, the benefits of lubrication here have been debated ad nauseum.
I have better gas mileage with syn lube in all power transmission components. How much and is measurable, it is certainly not worse.
Disclaimer; these are my beliefs, some of which have been documented with personal results and data.
1977 Eleganza II
Ogden NY
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| Re: does synthetic trans fluid lower temps? [message #121409 is a reply to message #121210] |
Sat, 09 April 2011 17:48 |
WayneB
Messages: 233
Registered: July 2008
Location: Ontario, Canada
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Yes Synthetic ATF is better than Dextron,the specs for Dextron were downgraded in the 80's with the widespread use of Lockup Torque converters in GM Hydramatic transmissions as it didnt have to deal with the heat caused by torque converter slippage anymores.
I use Mobil 1 ATF in all of my vehicles with automatics, the Motorhome, Range Rover, Buick,Jaguar, Trans-Am and my daughters VW Bug.
1976 23' GMCII By Explorer
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| Re: does synthetic trans fluid lower temps? [message #121970 is a reply to message #121210] |
Fri, 15 April 2011 22:28 |
Bob de Kruyff
Messages: 4260
Registered: January 2004
Location: Chandler, AZ
Karma: 1
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Senior Member |
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| hertfordnc wrote on Thu, 07 April 2011 11:36 |
First, do not take for granted the civility on this forum.
I found a thread on this topic over on the rv.net towing forum but they act like thugs to each other so it's difficult to extract meaningful information.
Someone there suggested that synthetic fluid actually dumps heat better then regular trans fluid and remains cooler.
THen someone else suggested he was an ininformed moron and that synthetic fluids only TOLERATE heat better.
As i plan to keep my eys glued to a trans temp gauge I am less interested in the latter.
THanks
|
Catching up late on all of these posts but synthetic does not at all result in lower fluid temps. GM delayed synthetic lube in differentials because of drastically increased temps inder tough usage.
Bob de Kruyff
78 Eleganza
Chandler, AZ
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