Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » Engine specs help non GMC (Help me decide if this engine will do the job)
| Engine specs help non GMC [message #120753] |
Mon, 04 April 2011 00:35  |
idrob
Messages: 645
Registered: January 2005
Location: Central Idaho
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I need the help of this great group. Although I no longer own my GMC, I try to participate on the topics that I have some knowledge. I hope some of you can help me with this question.
I have a 2001 Jeep Grand Cherokee V8 which I use to tow a 20' Argosy (painted Airstream) trailer now. I simply find it works better for me than the motorhome did.
The Jeep I have has a great modern V8 engine, it is the 4.7L with 235hp and 295 lb-ft torque. It tows very well and is economical. It has all the power I need to tow the trailer I use. I love the engine.
I am thinking of a new 2011 Jeep but that 4.7 V8 engine is no longer available which is a shame. The new Pentastar 3.6L V6 in the 2011 Jeeps has a rating of 290 hp and 260 lb-ft of torque. It is a very modern engine design. So, it has more HP and a little less torque than the V8 I now have. The specs are at a higher RPM but I assume the transmission and various gear rations allow the higher RPM to be practical.
There is a hemi V8 available for the Jeep, but there are several reasons I don't really want it.
Can anyone give me a feeling based on the HP and Torque specs of the older 4.7L V8 vs. the newer 3.6L V6 as to what it might be like when towing? This will be my "last" tow vehicle I am sure (age) and I want to be happy with it.
I sure appreciate your thoughts and opinions on this matter.
Rob Allen
former owner of '76 x-PB
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| Re: [GMCnet] Engine specs help non GMC [message #120754 is a reply to message #120753] |
Mon, 04 April 2011 00:37  |
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USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
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Rob,
Suggestion - approach the dealer and tell him you're only going to buy the
new Jeep if it tows your Argosy trailer as well as your old Jeep and see if
he'll let you hook it up and try it for a "test tow."
Nothing ventured nothing gained!
Regards,
Rob M.
USAussie - Downunder
AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
-----Original Message-----
From: gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org
[mailto:gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of Rob Allen
Sent: Sunday, April 03, 2011 10:35 PM
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Subject: [GMCnet] Engine specs help non GMC
I need the help of this great group. Although I no longer own my GMC, I try
to participate on the topics that I have some knowledge. I hope some of you
can help me with this question.
I have a 2001 Jeep Grand Cherokee V8 which I use to tow a 20' Argosy
(painted Airstream) trailer now. I simply find it works better for me than
the motorhome did.
The Jeep I have has a great modern V8 engine, it is the 4.7L with 235hp and
295 lb-ft torque. It tows very well and is economical. It has all the
power I need to tow the trailer I use. I love the engine.
I am thinking of a new 2011 Jeep but that 4.7 V8 engine is no longer
available which is a shame. The new Pentastar 3.6L V6 in the 2011 Jeeps has
a rating of 290 hp and 260 lb-ft of torque. It is a very modern engine
design. So, it has more HP and a little less torque than the V8 I now have.
The specs are at a higher RPM but I assume the transmission and various gear
rations allow the higher RPM to be practical.
There is a hemi V8 available for the Jeep, but there are several reasons I
don't really want it.
Can anyone give me a feeling based on the HP and Torque specs of the older
4.7L V8 vs. the newer 3.6L V6 as to what it might be like when towing?
This will be my "last" tow vehicle I am sure (age) and I want to be happy
with it.
I sure appreciate your thoughts and opinions on this matter.
--
Rob Allen
former owner of '76 x-PB
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Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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| Re: [GMCnet] Engine specs help non GMC [message #120757 is a reply to message #120756] |
Mon, 04 April 2011 02:21 |
idrob
Messages: 645
Registered: January 2005
Location: Central Idaho
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| Richard Denney wrote on Sun, 03 April 2011 23:38 |
On Mon, Apr 4, 2011 at 1:35 AM, Rob Allen <profmail@wildblue.net> wrote:
> Can anyone give me a feeling based on the HP and Torque specs of the older
> 4.7L V8 vs. the newer 3.6L V6 as to what it might be like when towing?
> This will be my "last" tow vehicle I am sure (age) and I want to be happy
> with it.
>
It isn't just about horsepower and torque. It's also about the strength of
the internal engine parts and the size of the bearing surfaces. It's easy to
make a lot of power from a lightweight engine, and push a relatively
lightweight vehicle around with it. But put under heavy power-making load,
smaller engine parts will deflect more and smaller bearing surfaces will
wear more.
For occasional towing it might not be that big a problem. And it's not the
number of cylinders, but the size and weight of the engine. Lots of big
trucks in the old days had six-cylinder engines, but with twice the
displacement of the one you are considering.
What is the tow rating of the Jeep? What's the heaviest tow facility the
factory will provide?
Rick "who has towed heavy trailers with a 3.5-liter six in a Toyota truck,
but not often" Denney
--
'73 230 "Jaws"
Northern Virginia
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Rick, thanks for the response. This rig will be used a LOT as a tow vehicle. I went 9000 miles with my rig last summer. The tow rating of the existing V8 Jeep is 6000 # (I think) and the new V6 is rated at 5000 #. My trailer, as towed with stuff in it, weighs in the 4000 # range. I used to have a Grand Cherokee with the 4.0 L straight six that I towed with, and it was not nearly as nice an engine as the current V8 I now own. I really do love the existing V8 I have.
The 5.7 L hemi V8 they have available (but I really don't want) has a tow rating of 7000 #.
This is the issue of course; am I going to be disappointed with the V6 and be stuck with it for 10 years? I will get the V8 hemi if I have to, but it is a less modern design, has worse milage solo, and even has a smaller gas tank for some reason that I really cannot understand. But if it will hold up better, and be a better choice, I will do it.
Rob Allen
former owner of '76 x-PB
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| Re: [GMCnet] Engine specs help non GMC [message #120759 is a reply to message #120757] |
Mon, 04 April 2011 04:28 |
James Hupy
Messages: 6806
Registered: May 2010
Karma: -62
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It is really, really difficult to engineer an engine that is all things to
all people. High rev ving V6's do not generally like to be lugged down like
they would be when towing. That means that you would likely not be using the
top or overdrive gear in your transmission when doing so. That might negate
any economy that might be realized from the smaller engine in overdrive. It
is really hard to beat a large displacement, heavy duty, big ol' cast iron
detroit V8 when it comes to towing, unless you go into purpose built engines
like the Cummins, and DuraMax, or Power Stroke Diesels used in the Big three
pickups. Then, get out your checkbook & vote. If you tow a great deal and
want to stay with the Jeep, the Hemi might be a better choice than the V6.
"Didn't you really want a Hemi?" Just my cockeyed opinion at 2:27 AM on a
Monday Morning.
Jim Hupy
Salem, OR
78 GMC Royale
On Mon, Apr 4, 2011 at 12:21 AM, Rob Allen <profmail@wildblue.net> wrote:
>
>
> Richard Denney wrote on Sun, 03 April 2011 23:38
> > On Mon, Apr 4, 2011 at 1:35 AM, Rob Allen <profmail@wildblue.net>
> wrote:
> >
> >
> > > Can anyone give me a feeling based on the HP and Torque specs of the
> older
> > > 4.7L V8 vs. the newer 3.6L V6 as to what it might be like when towing?
> > > This will be my "last" tow vehicle I am sure (age) and I want to be
> happy
> > > with it.
> > >
> >
> > It isn't just about horsepower and torque. It's also about the strength
> of
> > the internal engine parts and the size of the bearing surfaces. It's easy
> to
> > make a lot of power from a lightweight engine, and push a relatively
> > lightweight vehicle around with it. But put under heavy power-making
> load,
> > smaller engine parts will deflect more and smaller bearing surfaces will
> > wear more.
> >
> > For occasional towing it might not be that big a problem. And it's not
> the
> > number of cylinders, but the size and weight of the engine. Lots of big
> > trucks in the old days had six-cylinder engines, but with twice the
> > displacement of the one you are considering.
> >
> > What is the tow rating of the Jeep? What's the heaviest tow facility the
> > factory will provide?
> >
> > Rick "who has towed heavy trailers with a 3.5-liter six in a Toyota
> truck,
> > but not often" Denney
> >
> > --
> > '73 230 "Jaws"
> > Northern Virginia
> > _______________________________________________
>
>
> Rick, thanks for the response. This rig will be used a LOT as a tow
> vehicle. I went 9000 miles with my rig last summer. The tow rating of the
> existing V8 Jeep is 6000 # (I think) and the new V6 is rated at 5000 #. My
> trailer, as towed with stuff in it, weighs in the 4000 # range. I used to
> have a Grand Cherokee with the 4.0 L straight six that I towed with, and it
> was not nearly as nice an engine as the current V8 I now own. I really do
> love the existing V8 I have.
>
> The 5.7 L hemi V8 they have available (but I really don't want) has a tow
> rating of 7000 #.
>
> This is the issue of course; am I going to be disappointed with the V6 and
> be stuck with it for 10 years? I will get the V8 hemi if I have to, but it
> is a less modern design, has worse milage solo, and even has a smaller gas
> tank for some reason that I really cannot understand. But if it will hold
> up better, and be a better choice, I will do it.
>
> --
> Rob Allen
> former owner of '76 x-PB
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
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| Re: [GMCnet] Engine specs help non GMC [message #120764 is a reply to message #120759] |
Mon, 04 April 2011 07:11 |
John Sharpe
Messages: 489
Registered: February 2006
Location: Texas
Karma: 1
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Senior Member |
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| Quote: |
..... The tow rating of the
> existing V8 Jeep is 6000 # (I think) and the new V6 is rated at 5000 #.....
|
I'd recommend that you insist on the factory tow package installed on the assembly line. The techs tend to cut corners and leave stuff off when it's dealer installed. At least that way you will have a vehicle with the true factory rate tow capacity.
John Sharpe
Humble,TX
'78 Eleganza TBI
'89 Spectrum 2000 MPI V-10
'40 Ford Panel Delivery TPI
johnasharpe@gmail.com
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| Re: [GMCnet] Engine specs help non GMC [message #120768 is a reply to message #120764] |
Mon, 04 April 2011 07:32 |
fred v
Messages: 999
Registered: April 2006
Location: pensacola, fl.
Karma: 0
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| John Sharpe wrote on Mon, 04 April 2011 07:11 |
| Quote: |
..... The tow rating of the
> existing V8 Jeep is 6000 # (I think) and the new V6 is rated at 5000 #.....
|
I'd recommend that you insist on the factory tow package installed on the assembly line. The techs tend to cut corners and leave stuff off when it's dealer installed. At least that way you will have a vehicle with the true factory rate tow capacity.
|
i agree. i bought an F150 used and added the tow bar only to find that the rear end ratio was too high. it won't tow an empty 900lb utility trailer in over drive.
Fred V
'77 Royale RB 455
P'cola, Fl
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| Re: [GMCnet] Engine specs help non GMC [message #120772 is a reply to message #120753] |
Mon, 04 April 2011 07:57 |
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This was a great question. The responses were equally great and very
educational.
My question is this. If you like what you have now, why not keep it in good
repair and use it? Does it matter that it is a 2001 model? We're all old
enough to not worry about peer pressure.
I've also never understood why Jeep didn't offer a diesel option but you can
get a Cummins in a Dodge. Some marketing guru somewhere is saying "but we've
never offered a diesel, it's not 'a Jeep thing'".
Byron Songer
1978 Royale by Coachmen
Louisville, KY
Personal - http://web.me.com/bnsonger
Eastern States - http://www.gmceast.com
Rob Allen wrote:
>
>
> I need the help of this great group. Although I no longer own my GMC, I try
> to participate on the topics that I have some knowledge. I hope some of you
> can help me with this question.
>
> I have a 2001 Jeep Grand Cherokee V8 which I use to tow a 20' Argosy (painted
> Airstream) trailer now. I simply find it works better for me than the
> motorhome did.
>
> The Jeep I have has a great modern V8 engine, it is the 4.7L with 235hp and
> 295 lb-ft torque. It tows very well and is economical. It has all the power
> I need to tow the trailer I use. I love the engine.
>
> I am thinking of a new 2011 Jeep but that 4.7 V8 engine is no longer available
> which is a shame. The new Pentastar 3.6L V6 in the 2011 Jeeps has a rating of
> 290 hp and 260 lb-ft of torque. It is a very modern engine design. So, it
> has more HP and a little less torque than the V8 I now have. The specs are at
> a higher RPM but I assume the transmission and various gear rations allow the
> higher RPM to be practical.
>
> There is a hemi V8 available for the Jeep, but there are several reasons I
> don't really want it.
>
> Can anyone give me a feeling based on the HP and Torque specs of the older
> 4.7L V8 vs. the newer 3.6L V6 as to what it might be like when towing? This
> will be my "last" tow vehicle I am sure (age) and I want to be happy with it.
>
> I sure appreciate your thoughts and opinions on this matter.
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
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--
Byron Songer
Full-timing to enjoy the USA
Former owner but still an admirer
GMC paint schemes at -
http://www.songerconsulting.net
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| Re: Engine specs help non GMC [message #120779 is a reply to message #120753] |
Mon, 04 April 2011 08:38 |
GeorgeRud
Messages: 1380
Registered: February 2007
Location: Chicago, IL
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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My gut says to simply follow the tow ratings that Jeep provides. I can't believe that the V8 wouldn't be the better choice however.
Though it may be an older design, a v8 is inherently a better balanced engine than a v6, and probably is overengineered in comparison to the newer design.
George Rudawsky
Chicago, IL
75 Palm Beach
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| Re: Engine specs help non GMC [message #120811 is a reply to message #120753] |
Mon, 04 April 2011 12:22 |
Chr$
Messages: 2690
Registered: January 2004
Location: Scottsdale, AZ
Karma: 1
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Keep the Jeep you have already?
-Chr$: Perpetual SmartAss
Scottsdale, AZ
77 Ex-Kingsley 455 SOLD!
2010 Nomad 24 Ft TT 390W PV W/MPPT, EV4010 and custom cargo door.
Photosite: Chrisc GMC:"It has Begun" TT: "The Other Woman"
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| Re: Engine specs help non GMC [message #120812 is a reply to message #120753] |
Mon, 04 April 2011 12:40 |
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Matt Colie
Messages: 8547
Registered: March 2007
Location: S.E. Michigan
Karma: 7
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Senior Member |
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Rob,
My thoughts on your situation come from several discussions that I just had with people that were cohorts and supervisors when I did work at Chrysler. It seems Sergio has had a good influence on the place.
The 3.6 is a strong engine. A good runner and very little warranty issue. This version was developed by the Jeep-Truck group and validated by them to the truck targets. We at JTE always had "discussions" - loud and heated discussions - when they tried to foist a passcar motor on us and we would blow it up during validation. They complained that our testing was unreal for a passcar motor and we would wholeheartedly agree and them remind them that we were not making cars. They are running an almost extreme level of end of line testing at the plant.
As to the trailer tow rating. If you tow a load below the tow rating for the entire warranty duration, they don't expect to pay any warranty. (In short, don't sweat the 4000#).
With modern transmissions that are correctly calibrated, low end grunt (torque) is not the issue it once was, but horsepower is what climbs hills. So, if you liked the power you got from the 4.7, there is no reason you should be unhappy with the 3.6.
I hope this answers your questions, but if not, we can try again.
Matt
Matt & Mary Colie - Chaumière -'73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan with OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Near DTW - Twixt A2 and Detroit
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| Re: Engine specs help non GMC [message #120815 is a reply to message #120811] |
Mon, 04 April 2011 12:56 |
idrob
Messages: 645
Registered: January 2005
Location: Central Idaho
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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| Chr$ wrote on Mon, 04 April 2011 10:22 |
Keep the Jeep you have already?
|
You guys are great, I appreciate every answer here on line and a couple in private. Some more information:
I certainly will order the new one with a tow package. It is the very best $500 one can spend on a rig, even if you are not towing. Many things are beefed up with the tow package.
On keeping what I have now: My current Jeep has 110 K on it, and although it is a fine and reliable rig at this point, it will just require more and more things as time goes by. For example, it has a minor and very off and on coolant leak that the excellent closest dealer service department cannot locate, even with careful pressure checks. Then there is the question of how long things like the alternator, water pump, fuel pump, and so on will last. I am now at an age where I want to enjoy the camping and travel, not the repairs. Living in the remote parts of the West also means breakdowns are often serious and time consuming. Frequently I am out of cell phone range. A few years ago, with a different Jeep, I spent 4 days in British Columbia over Canada Day weekend with a failed main computer after being towed in to a very small town. Not fun. I had a battery failure at a very remote campground on the Salmon river another time. The plates inside the battery broke due to rough roads. You can't believe how difficult it was to take the two golf cart batteries out of the trailer and jury rig them to the Jeep to get it started. No one around for miles.
So, reliability is very important to me. And someone needs to keep the economy going...lol.
All other opinions are welcome. Right now you are making me think about the hemi V8 a lot more than I had been. And I appreciate it.
Rob Allen
former owner of '76 x-PB
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| Re: Engine specs help non GMC [message #120816 is a reply to message #120812] |
Mon, 04 April 2011 13:08 |
idrob
Messages: 645
Registered: January 2005
Location: Central Idaho
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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| mcolie wrote on Mon, 04 April 2011 10:40 |
Rob,
My thoughts on your situation come from several discussions that I just had with people that were cohorts and supervisors when I did work at Chrysler. It seems Sergio has had a good influence on the place.
The 3.6 is a strong engine. A good runner and very little warranty issue. This version was developed by the Jeep-Truck group and validated by them to the truck targets. We at JTE always had "discussions" - loud and heated discussions - when they tried to foist a passcar motor on us and we would blow it up during validation. They complained that our testing was unreal for a passcar motor and we would wholeheartedly agree and them remind them that we were not making cars. They are running an almost extreme level of end of line testing at the plant.
As to the trailer tow rating. If you tow a load below the tow rating for the entire warranty duration, they don't expect to pay any warranty. (In short, don't sweat the 4000#).
With modern transmissions that are correctly calibrated, low end grunt (torque) is not the issue it once was, but horsepower is what climbs hills. So, if you liked the power you got from the 4.7, there is no reason you should be unhappy with the 3.6.
I hope this answers your questions, but if not, we can try again.
Matt
Matt: I was hoping you would chime in on this question and really appreciate you response. It is nice to hear some "inside information" and I do value your opinions on this issue. I may wind up doing what Rob suggested earlier, and seeing if they have a demo rig with the V6 that I can try a test tow. I have enough tow experience with this trailer to feel if the power will be right for me. The engine longevity you seem to answer in your comments.
Anything else you or anyone can add, please do so.
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Rob Allen
former owner of '76 x-PB
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| Re: Engine specs help non GMC [message #120820 is a reply to message #120816] |
Mon, 04 April 2011 14:16 |
Bob de Kruyff
Messages: 4260
Registered: January 2004
Location: Chandler, AZ
Karma: 1
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Senior Member |
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Rob--these vehicles are validated to the manufacturers' tow ratings so you can expect to tow 24/7 without durability problems. The entire industry is downsizing powertrains but with new technology such as direct injection, they are able to maintain performance. Look at what Ford is doing across their truck line. The major manufacturers are keenly aware that they can't diminish customer expectations. I think you'll be very happy with the V6.
Bob de Kruyff
78 Eleganza
Chandler, AZ
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| Re: Engine specs help non GMC [message #120822 is a reply to message #120753] |
Mon, 04 April 2011 14:25 |
JohnL455
Messages: 4447
Registered: October 2006
Location: Woodstock, IL
Karma: 12
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Senior Member |
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Ordering an SUV without factory trailer tow sort of defeats the purpose. The lower gear ratio is so much better around town for launch so the vehicle doesn't feel like such a lump and less throttle is needed (higher vac/ less enrichment). Once on the highway when not towing you are in OD at like 1650 at speed limit anyway. My Tahoe 5.7 has 3.73s and I wish it had 3.90 or 4.11 as I can't really use OD when towing an enclosed double axle trailer with a Buick in it. Engine lugs and then temp guage starts to creap up and more throttle opening is needed to maintain speed for worse gas mileage than in DR. Put it back in DR and everything returns to normal in a few mins. I'd get the Hemi as the mileage will be the same when towing as per a discussion on this board about a month ago. Engine braking may be better too on the V8.
John Lebetski
Woodstock, IL
77 Eleganza II
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