Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » 16" Steel Wheels (Alternative To Alcoas?)
| 16" Steel Wheels [message #120528] |
Fri, 01 April 2011 18:51  |
A Hamilto
Messages: 4508
Registered: April 2011
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The rims at the following URL look like they would have enough clearance for disc brake calipers. They didn't answer my email requesting the hub diameter, but a rough measure of scale from the picture looks like about 4.9 inches. If so, a spacer between the hub and the rim about .48" thick with a lip about 1/8" to center the hub would put the center of the tire at the same position as the stock 16.5" steel wheels. At less than $100 each, you could pay a machine shop to make some spacers and still come out way ahead of Alcoas. And steel isn't as brittle as aluminum. Only question, is there enough clearance for stock and/or 80mm cailpers?
http://www.trailerandtruckparts.com/16-x-6-Light-Truck-Dual-Mounting-Wheel-X-45460_p_928.html&catid=59
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| Re: 16" Steel Wheels [message #120529 is a reply to message #120528] |
Fri, 01 April 2011 19:10  |
GeorgeRud
Messages: 1380
Registered: February 2007
Location: Chicago, IL
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My understanding is that you need to find the 16" steel wheels that have a domed center section rather than the common angled centers that the modern wheels have. If you look at the old 16.5 steel wheels, you'll see what's involved.
Also, it would be best to know the center hole diameter as they should be hub centered. The critical dimensions can be found using the search feature on this list or on the GMC photo site (I don't recall the exact sites). It doesn't seem that the proper steel wheels are an easy thing to find - I think all the old steel wheels shipped to Japan and China (and the steel recycled into newer products for us to buy!).
I've also been looking, and I'm realizing the hubcentered Eagles that JimK sells are probably the best bet out there for replacemnt wheels. If you can find some steel wheels locally, go for them. If you have to have them shipped, the shipping costs will more than eat into any savings you might find.
George Rudawsky
Chicago, IL
75 Palm Beach
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| Re: 16" Steel Wheels [message #120530 is a reply to message #120528] |
Fri, 01 April 2011 19:19 |
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mike miller
Messages: 3576
Registered: February 2004
Location: Hillsboro, Oregon
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| ahamilto wrote on Fri, 01 April 2011 16:51 |
The rims at the following URL look like they would have enough clearance for disc brake calipers. They didn't answer my email requesting the hub diameter, but a rough measure of scale from the picture looks like about 4.9 inches. If so, a spacer between the hub and the rim about .48" thick with a lip about 1/8" to center the hub would put the center of the tire at the same position as the stock 16.5" steel wheels. At less than $100 each, you could pay a machine shop to make some spacers and still come out way ahead of Alcoas. And steel isn't as brittle as aluminum. Only question, is there enough clearance for stock and/or 80mm cailpers?
http://www.trailerandtruckparts.com/16-x-6-Light-Truck-Dual-Mounting-Wheel-X-45460_p_928.html&catid=59
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They 'look' like wheels for a Ford/Dodge. They are not that hard to find used. If you are going to jump through hoops to make the larger pilot hole work with the GMC, find them locally to you... you shouldn't have to pay more than $35 each.
Also...
Normally wheels sold as trailer wheels are not of the same roundness/trueness standards as vehicle wheels.
Mike Miller -- Hillsboro, OR -- on the Black list
(#2)`78 23' Birchaven Rear Bath -- (#3)`77 23' Birchaven Side Bath
More Sidekicks than GMC's and a late model Malibu called 'Boo'
http://m000035.blogspot.com
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| Re: [GMCnet] 16" Steel Wheels [message #120531 is a reply to message #120530] |
Fri, 01 April 2011 19:41 |
James Hupy
Messages: 6806
Registered: May 2010
Karma: -62
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I have been over this before, but for the benefit of those who either missed
it or forgot, CRS & all, this is the drill. When you have worn pads and
turned rotors, (like many of our coaches) the 16" Late model 1 ton steel
wheels MIGHT work without spacers on the front wheels. The drum brakes are
not a problem, either wheel will work. When you have new rotors, heavy duty
ceramic or semi metallic brake pads, OR/AND 80MM calipers, it is more than
likely that wheel spacers will be required on the front. That will space the
wheel out beyond the machined lip on the hub, and the wheel is at the mercy
of the studs. If this fits your situation, I make a hub extender that will
center the wheels. I have used them on my 78 Royale since 2009 and have had
no problems with either front wheel bearings or front end wear or alignment
problems. The coach runs down the road at 75+ with no tire shake, rut
wander, no nuthin. Steel wheels don't corrode from cat pee and they are
cheap. But in the eyes of many, they are ugly. Strong, but ugly. I guess it
comes down to, you pays yer money, & you takes yer choice. Different strokes
is what the GMC is all about.
Jim Hupy
Salem, OR
78 GMC Royale 403
On Fri, Apr 1, 2011 at 5:19 PM, Mike Miller <m000035@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> ahamilto wrote on Fri, 01 April 2011 16:51
> > The rims at the following URL look like they would have enough clearance
> for disc brake calipers. They didn't answer my email requesting the hub
> diameter, but a rough measure of scale from the picture looks like about 4.9
> inches. If so, a spacer between the hub and the rim about .48" thick with a
> lip about 1/8" to center the hub would put the center of the tire at the
> same position as the stock 16.5" steel wheels. At less than $100 each, you
> could pay a machine shop to make some spacers and still come out way ahead
> of Alcoas. And steel isn't as brittle as aluminum. Only question, is there
> enough clearance for stock and/or 80mm cailpers?
> >
> >
> http://www.trailerandtruckparts.com/16-x-6-Light-Truck-Dual-Mounting-Wheel-X-45460_p_928.html&catid=59
>
>
> They 'look' like wheels for a Ford/Dodge. They are not that hard to find
> used. If you are going to jump through hoops to make the larger pilot hole
> work with the GMC, find them locally to you... you shouldn't have to pay
> more than $35 each.
>
> Also...
>
> Normally wheels sold as trailer wheels are not of the same
> roundness/trueness standards as vehicle wheels.
> --
> Mike Miller -- Hillsboro, OR -- on the Black list
> '73 26' exPainted D. -- `78 23' Birchaven Rear Bath -- `77 23' Birchaven
> Side Bath
> http://m000035.blogspot.com
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
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| Re: 16" Steel Wheels [message #120545 is a reply to message #120528] |
Fri, 01 April 2011 23:10 |
GeorgeRud
Messages: 1380
Registered: February 2007
Location: Chicago, IL
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Also, has anyone experimented with front wheels with a different offset (backspacing) to help even out the tracking differences between the front and back of the coach? I know that it would prevent being able to rotate the tires, but many cars come with different sized front and rear wheels.
George Rudawsky
Chicago, IL
75 Palm Beach
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| Re: [GMCnet] 16" Steel Wheels [message #120549 is a reply to message #120545] |
Sat, 02 April 2011 04:37 |
James Hupy
Messages: 6806
Registered: May 2010
Karma: -62
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Actually, the backspacing on the rim is exactly what we are talking about.
That is what determines the clearance for the calipers. If you are
considering buying new wheels, there probably is not enough cost difference
between the package deal on the alloy wheels and the new steel wheels to
justify spacers and hub extenders. I came up with this arangement because I
had access to very inexpensive ($15.00 per wheel) wheels, and I don't
particularly like alloy wheels and their maintence, but that is just a
personal preference.
Jim Hupy
Salem, Or
78 GMC Royale 403
On Fri, Apr 1, 2011 at 9:10 PM, George Rudawsky <GeorgeRud@aol.com> wrote:
>
>
> Also, has anyone experimented with front wheels with a different offset
> (backspacing) to help even out the tracking differences between the front
> and back of the coach? I know that it would prevent being able to rotate
> the tires, but many cars come with different sized front and rear wheels.
> --
> George Rudawsky
> Chicago, IL
> 75 Palm Beach
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
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| Re: 16" Steel Wheels [message #120566 is a reply to message #120530] |
Sat, 02 April 2011 10:07 |
A Hamilto
Messages: 4508
Registered: April 2011
Karma: 39
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| mike miller wrote on Fri, 01 April 2011 19:19 |
| ahamilto wrote on Fri, 01 April 2011 16:51 |
The rims at the following URL look like they would have enough clearance for disc brake calipers. They didn't answer my email requesting the hub diameter, but a rough measure of scale from the picture looks like about 4.9 inches. If so, a spacer between the hub and the rim about .48" thick with a lip about 1/8" to center the hub would put the center of the tire at the same position as the stock 16.5" steel wheels. At less than $100 each, you could pay a machine shop to make some spacers and still come out way ahead of Alcoas. And steel isn't as brittle as aluminum. Only question, is there enough clearance for stock and/or 80mm cailpers?
http://www.trailerandtruckparts.com/16-x-6-Light-Truck-Dual-Mounting-Wheel-X-45460_p_928.html&catid=59
|
They 'look' like wheels for a Ford/Dodge. They are not that hard to find used. If you are going to jump through hoops to make the larger pilot hole work with the GMC, find them locally to you... you shouldn't have to pay more than $35 each.
Also...
Normally wheels sold as trailer wheels are not of the same roundness/trueness standards as vehicle wheels.
|
The wheels in the url are being sold as light truck wheels, not trailer wheels. But is it good to know that trailer wheels might not be true enough for the application. The "domed" wheels are hard to find these days, but these look like they might have clearance for calipers. If I lived in CA, I might be tempted to buy one just to find out if it clears the calipers with only a 1/2" spacer (that would put the tire track almost exactly where it would be with stock rims and tires).
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| Re: [GMCnet] 16" Steel Wheels [message #120574 is a reply to message #120563] |
Sat, 02 April 2011 11:37 |
James Hupy
Messages: 6806
Registered: May 2010
Karma: -62
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Gord, In my experience, there is rarely more than incidental contact with
the OEM calipers. A 1/4 " thick spacer will usually suffice. With the 80MM
calipers, minimum spacer thickness is in the neighborhood of 1/2". Your
particular vehicle may vary somewhat. If the wheel that you select is of
larger diameter than 16", it might clear the 80MM calipers with no spacer.
If you have a stock 16.5 " steel wheel, take your own measurements from the
inside of the wheel mounting face and compare the new wheel to that. As to
the "collision" with body works, there is a large difference between the
Series 1 and 2 coaches in the rear wheel wells. With the stock 16.5 wheels
and OEM sized tires when the air bags are deflated on the early coaches,
some contact is possible with the inner fender wells. The later coaches have
more space, and the Transmode conversions by Coachman are different too. Add
to this the possibility of aftermarket wheels & tires & it gets more
confusing. I guess what I am trying my best to say is that perhaps each
coach is enough different that you must measure and try for each
application. I know this was not an exactly definitive answer, but the best
suggestion that I can come up with.
Jim Hupy
Salem, OR
78 GMC Royale 403
On Sat, Apr 2, 2011 at 7:28 AM, Gord Hubbell <g.r.hubbell@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> Hi Jim,
>
> Don't suppose you have the numbers for the actual backspacing?
>
> Reviewing some brochure data, stock was 16.5 x 6, 6 1/2 inch bolt circle (8
> bolt), offset of 4 5/8 or 5 inches depending where I look.
>
> I was just touring tirerack.com for amusement... lots of flashy stuff
> there and lots of tire choices of course in the bigger diameters.
>
> Curious to, if you could say from 'real life', approximately how much space
> is there inboard and outboard before colliding a 'stock' tire with
> suspension or bodywork?
>
> Thanks Jim,
>
> Gord :)
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| Re: [GMCnet] 16" Steel Wheels [message #120593 is a reply to message #120574] |
Sat, 02 April 2011 15:26 |
A Hamilto
Messages: 4508
Registered: April 2011
Karma: 39
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| James Hupy wrote on Sat, 02 April 2011 11:37 |
Gord, In my experience, there is rarely more than incidental contact with the OEM calipers. A 1/4 " thick spacer will usually suffice. With the 80MM calipers, minimum spacer thickness is in the neighborhood of 1/2". Your particular vehicle may vary somewhat. If the wheel that you select is of larger diameter than 16", it might clear the 80MM calipers with no spacer.
If you have a stock 16.5 " steel wheel, take your own measurements from the inside of the wheel mounting face and compare the new wheel to that. As to the "collision" with body works, there is a large difference between the Series 1 and 2 coaches in the rear wheel wells. With the stock 16.5 wheels and OEM sized tires when the air bags are deflated on the early coaches, some contact is possible with the inner fender wells. The later coaches have more space, and the Transmode conversions by Coachman are different too. Add to this the possibility of aftermarket wheels & tires & it gets more confusing. I guess what I am trying my best to say is that perhaps each coach is enough different that you must measure and try for each application. I know this was not an exactly definitive answer, but the best suggestion that I can come up with.
Jim Hupy
Salem, OR
78 GMC Royale 403
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Bravo Jim! We seem to be on the same sheet of music here. It would seem to me that (unless you want to fiddle with recalibrating the speedometer) the best bet would be to stay with a rim/tire combination that is as close to original as possible. The pdf file I have says on the original coach the offset was 4.67" and the hub bore was 4.567". The 8.75R16.5LT tire is about 29.6" outside diameter. The 16" steel rims I have looked at have an offset of 5" or more, implying that you need a spacer at least 1/3" to get both the tire track and the weight distribution on the bearings back in line with factory design. I believe the 225/75R16 tires are about 29.3" outside diameter. That means you probably wouldn't have to fiddle with the speedometer. Since you need at least 3/8" spacer to get the offset right, and if that actually allows the 80mm caliper to fit in common steel rims, the obvious solution to get away from 16.5" rims is to find the least expensive way to get 6 ea 3/8" (1/2" for a rim with 5.15" offset) spacers machined with a lip (if the hub bore is more than 4.567")to hub center both the spacer and the rim). That is assuming you can get second hand 16" steel rims for a song. Then all you need is stock light truck 225/75R16 tires.
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| Re: 16" Steel Wheels [message #120598 is a reply to message #120545] |
Sat, 02 April 2011 16:39 |
Carl S.
Messages: 4186
Registered: January 2009
Location: Tucson, AZ.
Karma: 13
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| GeorgeRud wrote on Fri, 01 April 2011 21:10 |
Also, has anyone experimented with front wheels with a different offset (backspacing) to help even out the tracking differences between the front and back of the coach? I know that it would prevent being able to rotate the tires, but many cars come with different sized front and rear wheels.
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Here's what I did, the captions tell the story:
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/showgallery.php?cat=5521
This is probably not for everybody, in fact I expect a bunch of crap over this, but these wheels work for me, and after getting used to the look, I even like that.
These wheels use tapered lug nuts and are, obviously lug centered. I was concerned about that at first, because I had heard stories about lug centered wheels working loose, but that is not the case. I have checked the torque on the lug nuts frequently and, except for an initial re-tightening, they have stayed tight for the 2,500 miles, or so, that I have been using them.
My primary reason for using the 16" X 8" Dodge wheels was to get a wider tire for better flotation and traction in loose dirt. I have since added a 3.70 limited slip final drive to take full advantage of the tires. I think the 16" X 6" Chevy/GMC truck wheels would look great too and would use the same size tire as the rear wheels.
Carl Stouffer
'75 ex Palm Beach
Tucson, AZ.
Chuck Aulgur Reaction Arm Disc Brakes, Quadrabags, 3.70 LSD final drive, Lenzi knuckles/hubs, Dodge Truck 16" X 8" front wheels, Rear American Eagles, Solar battery charging. GMCSJ and GMCMI member
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| Re: 16" Steel Wheels [message #120620 is a reply to message #120608] |
Sat, 02 April 2011 18:55 |
Carl S.
Messages: 4186
Registered: January 2009
Location: Tucson, AZ.
Karma: 13
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One of the reasons I don't think "running on the studs" is an issue is that I have a Ford F-600, 2-1/2 ton truck (GVW - 19,500) that has 8.25/20 tires on steel wheels (very heavy) and the wheels on it are lug centered with conical lug nuts. The lug bolts are quite large (probably 5/8" or 3/4", not sure of the size or the torque, the last time I had tires put on it, the tire shop took care of all that. The point is they are not hub centered. I think the clamping force is the main factor in keeping the wheels on the hub.
Carl Stouffer
'75 ex Palm Beach
Tucson, AZ.
Chuck Aulgur Reaction Arm Disc Brakes, Quadrabags, 3.70 LSD final drive, Lenzi knuckles/hubs, Dodge Truck 16" X 8" front wheels, Rear American Eagles, Solar battery charging. GMCSJ and GMCMI member
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| Re: 16" Steel Wheels [message #120654 is a reply to message #120620] |
Sun, 03 April 2011 04:38 |
Bob de Kruyff
Messages: 4260
Registered: January 2004
Location: Chandler, AZ
Karma: 1
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| Carl S. wrote on Sat, 02 April 2011 17:55 |
One of the reasons I don't think "running on the studs" is an issue is that I have a Ford F-600, 2-1/2 ton truck (GVW - 19,500) that has 8.25/20 tires on steel wheels (very heavy) and the wheels on it are lug centered with conical lug nuts. The lug bolts are quite large (probably 5/8" or 3/4", not sure of the size or the torque, the last time I had tires put on it, the tire shop took care of all that. The point is they are not hub centered. I think the clamping force is the main factor in keeping the wheels on the hub.
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I think they look great and you're right, it's all about clamping force and nothing else!
Bob de Kruyff
78 Eleganza
Chandler, AZ
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I've run 'on the studs' prior and never had great issue - certainly not the best way to go, but it certainly can work. 