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| new inverter install popping GFI [message #120198] |
Mon, 28 March 2011 15:32  |
lqqkatjon
Messages: 2324
Registered: October 2010
Location: St. Cloud, MN
Karma: 5
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I just installed a progressive inteli-power 9260. and now my coach pops the GFI as soon as the concerter gets hooked into the 12 volt system of the coach.
any thoughts as a place to start?
currently I plugged it directly into an 20 amp non gfi outlet and seems to work fine.
I also plugged it in with a extension cord that I had that has the ground broke off, and it does not trip the GFI.
I am plugging from the 50 amp original cord into a 50 amp to 30 amp rv cord, then to an adapter that goes to the 110v 20 amp.
I ran into this with a friend's homemade camper as well. his just recently started to pop the gfi in his garage. and I can't seem to figure out where it is having the issue.
after checking his camper out, we just could not pinpoint the problem. and just now keep it plugged into the non-gfi outlet.
Jon Roche
75 palm beach
EBL EFI, manny headers, Micro Level, rebuilt most of coach now.
St. Cloud, MN
http://lqqkatjon.blogspot.com/
[Updated on: Mon, 28 March 2011 21:01] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: new inverter install popping GFI [message #120201 is a reply to message #120198] |
Mon, 28 March 2011 16:44  |
Keith V
Messages: 2337
Registered: March 2008
Location: Mounds View,MN
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I had this problem on my old SOB, I was told, inverters don't play well with GFI outlets.
So my expensive GFI breaker sits there with it's sense wire disconnected....Grrr
Keith Vasilakes
Mounds View. MN
75 ex Royale GMC
ask me about MicroLevel
Cell, 763-732-3419
My427v8@hotmail.com
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| Re: new inverter install popping GFI [message #120204 is a reply to message #120202] |
Mon, 28 March 2011 17:29 |
lqqkatjon
Messages: 2324
Registered: October 2010
Location: St. Cloud, MN
Karma: 5
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sorry for misinformation.
I do not have any inverter connected, or in the coach at all. I used the wrong terminology.
I just removed the old "buzz box" and installed the 9260 power-converter.
if I disconnect the 12volt lead out of the 9260. the gfi seems to hold fine. as soon as I connect up the 12 volt lead, gfi trips.
The 12 volt lead connects to my fuse panel. on the same lug as a wire going to another bolt that has the cable going up to the isolator in the front of the coach, and other to the battery.
was wondering if there was a common thing to look for?
the old buzz box did not pop the gfi.
the 9620, plugs in right off of the 110volt electrical panel in an outlet that is tied in to the waterheater?
Jon Roche
75 palm beach
EBL EFI, manny headers, Micro Level, rebuilt most of coach now.
St. Cloud, MN
http://lqqkatjon.blogspot.com/
[Updated on: Mon, 28 March 2011 17:32] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: [GMCnet] new inverter install popping GFI [message #120205 is a reply to message #120204] |
Mon, 28 March 2011 17:39 |
Dave Mumert
Messages: 272
Registered: February 2004
Location: Olds, AB, Canada
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Hi
Here is what Progressive Dynamics has to say about ground fault breakers.
GFCI PROTECTION ... INTELI-POWER 9200 has the LOWEST ground fault leakage.
With this unit, the user
can confidently utilize the RV's AC outlets without being concerned about a
ground fault interruption of the
facilities power source.
I don't understand why connecting the output would cause a ground fault
unless there is something wrong with the converter. The output should be
completely isolated from the input.
You might want to give Progressive Dynamics a call and talk to a technician
about the problem.
They do not appear to have a toll free number, but you can call them at
269-781-4241.
Good Luck
Dave
> -----Original Message-----
> From: gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org [mailto:gmclist-
> bounces@temp.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of Jon Roche
> Sent: Monday, March 28, 2011 16:30
> To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
> Subject: Re: [GMCnet] new inverter install popping GFI
>
>
>
> sorry for misinformation.
>
> I do not have any inverter connected, or in the coach at all. I used the
wrong
> terminology.
>
> I just removed the old "buzz box" and installed the 9260 power-converter.
>
> if I disconnect the 12volt lead out of the 9260. the gfi seems to hold
fine. as
> soon as I connect up the 12 volt lead, gfi trips.
>
> The 12 volt lead connects to my fuse panel. on the same lug as a wire
going
> to another bolt that has the cable going up to the isolator in the front
of the
> coach, and other to the battery.
>
> was wondering if there was a common thing to look for?
>
> the old buzz box did not pop the gfi.
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
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| Re: new inverter install popping GFI [message #120218 is a reply to message #120198] |
Mon, 28 March 2011 21:54 |
captjack
Messages: 271
Registered: February 2010
Location: Sebastopol, California
Karma: 1
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I had a similar problem. I found my GFI tripping when I plugged my coach into a GFI outlet. I thought it was the inverter since when I disconnected it, the GFI didn't trip, but the tech at the inverter company said it was impossible. I was still skeptical, but he was right. It turned out to be the water heater. The heating element was burned out and the ground and neutral were connected together by a high impedance short. It did take me a while to find this by disconnecting wires one-by-one from the connector block. I still don't know why turning on the inverter did caused this, but replacing the water heater solved the problem.
In RV's unlike house wiring, the neutral wire is carried through, ungrounded, to the panel and associated power plug. I used a ohmmeter to ultimately find the short between ground and neutral which, as I recall, was in the order of a megohm.
Jack Christensen - K6ROW,
'76 Glenbrook/Clasco - "The Silver Bullet",
Sebastopol, CA
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| Re: new inverter install popping GFI [message #120233 is a reply to message #120198] |
Tue, 29 March 2011 07:39 |
lqqkatjon
Messages: 2324
Registered: October 2010
Location: St. Cloud, MN
Karma: 5
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Senior Member |
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I will start with the water heater. What I found though to be odd, is it popped the gfi even with the switch of the water heater in the off position. so in theory, there should be zero volts going to the water heater on the hot to be able to come back on the neutral or ground. and do not understand why the old converter did not have the problem. so I was leaning more toward an issue with 12volt side.
also what confuses me, is the I thought the gfi measured the difference between the hot and neutral. so by removing the ground on the extension cord, that should not do anything with the gfi? it must also measure if there is any voltage on the ground?
Jon Roche
75 palm beach
EBL EFI, manny headers, Micro Level, rebuilt most of coach now.
St. Cloud, MN
http://lqqkatjon.blogspot.com/
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| Re: new inverter install popping GFI [message #120236 is a reply to message #120233] |
Tue, 29 March 2011 07:53 |
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mike miller
Messages: 3576
Registered: February 2004
Location: Hillsboro, Oregon
Karma: 0
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| Jon wrote on Tue, 29 March 2011 05:39 |
...
also what confuses me, is the I thought the gfi measured the difference between the hot and neutral. so by removing the ground on the extension cord, that should not do anything with the gfi? it must also measure if there is any voltage on the ground?
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Electricity will take the path of least resistance.
If there is leakage between neutral and ground, and you remove the ground (ie: add a LOT of resistance to ground), the leakage would NOT leak to ground. It with stay in the neutral line... returning to the GFI. (Making IT happy.) BUT the POTENTIAL will still be there on anything attached to the coach ground... waiting for the "true" ground to "return"... like when you touch it!
In other words... the GFI is telling you that "something isn't right" and it should be fixed before it gets worse and or someone gets hurt.
Mike Miller -- Hillsboro, OR -- on the Black list
(#2)`78 23' Birchaven Rear Bath -- (#3)`77 23' Birchaven Side Bath
More Sidekicks than GMC's and a late model Malibu called 'Boo'
http://m000035.blogspot.com
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| Re: new inverter install popping GFI [message #120237 is a reply to message #120198] |
Tue, 29 March 2011 07:58 |
jknezek
Messages: 1057
Registered: December 2007
Karma: 5
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I had the same problem for a while. Was driving me insane until my original fridge started showing problems. Started looking at the wiring on the back and found a few areas where there could have been shorts, a few loose connections, and a few areas where a PO had clearly spliced in a wire that was a smaller size than should have been. Stripped a good bit of it out, redid all the areas I thought would be problems, and now have no issue plugging in to a GFI outlet. It worked as a very nice early warning system, but it sure turned into quite a bit of work.
Thanks,
Jeremy Knezek
1976 Glenbrook
Birmingham, AL
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| Re: new inverter install popping GFI [message #120254 is a reply to message #120233] |
Tue, 29 March 2011 10:39 |
idrob
Messages: 645
Registered: January 2005
Location: Central Idaho
Karma: 0
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| Jon wrote on Tue, 29 March 2011 05:39 |
I will start with the water heater. What I found though to be odd, is it popped the gfi even with the switch of the water heater in the off position. so in theory, there should be zero volts going to the water heater on the hot to be able to come back on the neutral or ground. and do not understand why the old converter did not have the problem. so I was leaning more toward an issue with 12volt side.
also what confuses me, is the I thought the gfi measured the difference between the hot and neutral. so by removing the ground on the extension cord, that should not do anything with the gfi? it must also measure if there is any voltage on the ground?
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Not sure if your water heater is the real problem, but if there is a problem with it a faulty element it will essentially cause a circuit to be created through the water in the HWH between the Neutral and the Ground in the coach, which is a no no when it comes to GFI's. This can even happen with the hot side of the circuit broken with a switch. It only takes 5 mA of current going in the wrong place to shut a GFI down. They do not like grounds and neutrals connected together, other than at the main panel (in this case the house panel, not the coach panel).
GFI's are great devices, but can be fussy if there is anything wrong anyplace on the circuit or in the coach. Happy hunting.'
PS: there still could be a problem with the PD converter. Call PD for their view on the situation.
Rob Allen
former owner of '76 x-PB
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| Re: new inverter install popping GFI [message #120256 is a reply to message #120198] |
Tue, 29 March 2011 10:51 |
Ken Burton
Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana
Karma: 10
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Senior Member |
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Just a thought here. If I remember correctly when I installed mine several year ago there were 3 ground wires on it.
1. -12 volts DC.
2. A separate chassis ground wire.
3. The round ground pin in the 120 volt plug.
Are all three of these attached correctly?
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
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| Re: new inverter install popping GFI [message #120323 is a reply to message #120256] |
Wed, 30 March 2011 00:52 |
lqqkatjon
Messages: 2324
Registered: October 2010
Location: St. Cloud, MN
Karma: 5
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Senior Member |
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I believe so. they are all three connected.
I did remove the chassis ground and it still popped the gfi.
other wires are connected same place as the buzz box was.
Jon Roche
75 palm beach
EBL EFI, manny headers, Micro Level, rebuilt most of coach now.
St. Cloud, MN
http://lqqkatjon.blogspot.com/
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| Re: new inverter install popping GFI [message #120326 is a reply to message #120198] |
Wed, 30 March 2011 07:33 |
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RF_Burns
Messages: 2277
Registered: June 2008
Location: S. Ontario, Canada
Karma: 3
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Senior Member |
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Just to clarify:
1- Battery wires from convertor disconnected and convertor plugged in and turned ON, the GFI holds Correct?
2- As above, but Battery wires from convertor connected the GFI trips Correct?
Have you tried leaving the positive battery wire off and only connecting the negative wire (this provides the body ground as well or does this model have a separate RV body ground?) to see if it trips the GFI under this condition.
The AC ground should be connected to the body ground through the AC breaker panel ground connection. The Negative house battery DC ground is also grounded through the house DC wiring.
Somewhere there has to be leakage current to trip the GFI.
The only path within the convertor I can think of, besides some fault within the convertor... is there could be a MOV (surge suppressor component) from each side of the line to ground. An MOV is designed to breakdown during a voltage surge and blow the fuse, but otherwise is a very high resistance. One of these could be faulty causing the imbalance, but I doubt it.. the heat dissipated by this "leakage" current would likely cause it to breakdown and short.
I'm thinking the convertor has a fault... connecting the battery Neg line is proving some leakage current from the AC side.
In my business we have sold several thousand switching power supplies and supply/chargers and never had a problem with them tripping a GFI by their design.
I installed a Samlex 60Amp convertor and have no problems, but I did have problems with tripping the GFI on the first time out. It was a faulty water heater element.
Bruce Hislop
ON Canada
77PB, 455 Dick P. rebuilt, DynamicEFI EBL EFI & ESC.
1 ton front end
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/showphoto.php?photo=29001
My Staff says I never listen to them, or something like that
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