Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » [GMCnet] SILICONE BRAKE FLUID??
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| Re: [GMCnet] SILICONE BRAKE FLUID?? [message #119488 is a reply to message #119482] |
Mon, 21 March 2011 19:49   |
jim kanomata
Messages: 257
Registered: March 2007
Location: fremont,ca
Karma: 12
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Jim H is correct, there is something strange about that fluid that creats more problems han it solves.
Using he standard and changing it frequently would be my peferance.
Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC, Fremont,CA
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
http://www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
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| Re: [GMCnet] SILICONE BRAKE FLUID?? [message #119491 is a reply to message #119478] |
Mon, 21 March 2011 20:05 |
roy1
Messages: 2126
Registered: July 2004
Location: Minden nevada
Karma: 6
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It works great in my street rods that see little use. I used it in the GMC in the distant past but found it needs to be replaced on a regular basis just like dot 3&4 as moisture is still a problem as the years go by. I don't put it in the GMC anymore for this reason it costs too much to replace every couple of years. If you can get it for free or what dot 3 costs I would not have a problem using it.
Roy
Roy Keen
Minden,NV
76 X Glenbrook
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| Re: [GMCnet] SILICONE BRAKE FLUID?? [message #119492 is a reply to message #119491] |
Mon, 21 March 2011 20:12 |
jhb1
Messages: 303
Registered: February 2004
Karma: 0
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I have been using it for the last few years and change it out every 3 years. In our climate up here with the wild temperature swings it keeps the moisture out of the system. JWID
John H. Bell
77 Royale; QuadBag,Manny OneTon,Honda EV4010, FITech
Montreal Qc.
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| Re: [GMCnet] SILICONE BRAKE FLUID?? [message #119493 is a reply to message #119478] |
Mon, 21 March 2011 20:06 |
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USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
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Larry,
DOT 3, 4, and 5.1 are glycol based on fluids that are hydroscopic, when
exposed to the air they absorb moisture which lowers the boiling point of
the fluid which is NOT good.
Dot 5 is silicone (as you noted) and is hydrophobic, it does not absorb
moisture. However, moisture can and will get into the brakes system. It
stays separated from the silicone and can freeze. Frozen water in a brake
line can block pressure to a caliper or wheel cylinder rendering the brake
on that particular wheel.
Here's the Wikipedia entry:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brake_fluid
Whoever decided to call a glycol based brake fluid Dot 5.1 is a bloody
moron!
Below you will find an email I sent in last year regarding brake fluids.
******************************************
I did a lot of research into brake fluids when I rebuilt the brakes in
Double Trouble and decided to go with ATE Dot 4 fluid.
www.ate-na.com
Below is a copy of an email I sent in back in January of this year:
When we were discussing Dan's brakes someone mentioned that Summit had brake
fluid that came in two colors which made it easy to flush.
I have been a proponent of ATE brake fluid because they make Dot 4 brake
fluid in two colors with the highest dry and wet boiling points available
that was OK for use in non racing vehicles. This was true up until I found
the information on Wilwood EXP 600.
ATE Super Blue Racing: Dry boiling point: 536°F Wet boiling point: 392°F
http://www.tirerack.com/brakes/accessoryDetail.jsp?ID=21
ATE TYP 200: Dry boiling point: 536°F Wet boiling point: 392°F
http://www.tirerack.com/brakes/accessoryDetail.jsp?ID=22
As you can see in the blurb ATE recommends changing it every three years and
"The identical specifications of the fluid and color difference make it easy
to know when the old fluid is completely flushed out of the system."
Here's the info on Wilwood EXP 600 on the Summit website:
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/WIL-290-6209/
Which has the following specs:
Wilwood EXP 600 Plus Super High-Temp racing brake fluid is a highly refined
blend developed for extreme performance under the high heat and extreme
pressure of professional motorsports. EXP 600 Plus has tested to 626 degrees
F with a wet boiling point of 417 degrees F. These numbers far exceed any
DOT or SAE specifications. EXP 600 Plus brake fluid has been proven to
maintain a firm pedal feel and quick response and IT HAS LOW-MOISTURE
AFFINITIES TO SLOW THE NATURAL ABSORPTION RATE OF WATER VAPOR. For optimum
performance, EXP 600 Plus should not be diluted with any other brake fluids;
add new fluid to a clean system.
I contacted Wilwood in an attempt to get a recommended interval to flush it
so I could compare it to the ATE fluid. Below you will find my email and
Wilwood's response. As you can see they said it is OK for street use but
didn't provide a recommended flush interval.
Also at $18.75 for 16.9 ounces (500cc) EXP 600 is three times the price than
the ATE at $12.00 for 33.8 ounces (1000cc). That's $37.00 vs. $12.00. I
found that it took 1 liter to fill the whole system in Double Trouble (front
& middle disks, rear drums) so the cost to fill or flush would triple.
Here's a link to a chart I found that provides some other racing brake
fluids. BE CAREFUL and do your own research as some of these are NOT
recommended for use in non-racing vehicles!
http://www.pegasusautoracing.com/group.asp?GroupID=BRAKEFLUID
In case you're wondering what I'm going to do; I have two liters of ATE
Super Blue and Three liters of Type 200 so that should answer that question.
So now you ask what would I do if I didn't have that and the answer is
DUNNO! ;-)
STOP THE PRESSES!!!! I just spotted this in Wilwood's flyer on the EXP 600!
"Use of EXP should be restricted to not more than 12 months."
http://www.wilwood.com/PDF/Flyers/fl178.pdf
Looks like Wilwood customer service leaves a bit to be desired!
Well now I KNOW I'll be staying with ATE!
Regards,
Rob M.
USAussie - Downunder
AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
-----Original Message-----
From: gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org
[mailto:gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of larry erd
Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2011 10:33 AM
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Subject: [GMCnet] SILICONE BRAKE FLUID??
I'm replacing my entire brake system on my coach and I'm wondering about
silicone brake fluid when I finish it up. I haven't seen anything pro or con
about it here, whats your thoughts??
Larry Erd
77 Kingsley
Lake Wales Fl.
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Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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| Re: [GMCnet] SILICONE BRAKE FLUID?? [message #119505 is a reply to message #119478] |
Mon, 21 March 2011 21:01 |
JohnL455
Messages: 4447
Registered: October 2006
Location: Woodstock, IL
Karma: 12
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Senior Member |
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Very popular in the Corvette crowd for coroding sticking calipers. I would only use DOT3 in my GMC and change it every couple years as is is about the same price as gasoline now. I want the brake fluid to do it's job and aborb any water.
John Lebetski
Woodstock, IL
77 Eleganza II
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| Re: [GMCnet] SILICONE BRAKE FLUID?? [message #119520 is a reply to message #119508] |
Mon, 21 March 2011 22:13 |
Kosier
Messages: 834
Registered: February 2008
Karma: 1
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Senior Member |
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No Mac, you just didn't pay attention. He said DOT 3, 4,
and 5.1 are ALL glycol. DOT 5 and DOT 5.1 are two
very different fluids.
Gary Kosier
77EII & 77PB
Newark, Ohio
----- Original Message -----
From: "D C *Mac* Macdonald" <k2gkk@hotmail.com>
To: <gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org>
Sent: Monday, March 21, 2011 10:02 PM
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] SILICONE BRAKE FLUID??
>
> Very interesting in that Mike asserts that DOT 3,
> 4, and 5.1 are ALL glycol-based with the later
> versions having increased performance.
>
> DOT 5 is the only silicone-based brake fluid.
>
> Have I misunderstood that???
>
>
> ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
> ~~ ~ D C "Mac" Macdonald ~ ~~
> ~ ~ Amateur Radio - K2GKK ~ ~
> ~ ~ USAF and FAA, Retired ~ ~
> ~ ~ ~ Oklahoma City, OK ~ ~ ~
> ~~ ~ ~ "The Money Pit" ~ ~ ~~
> ~ ~ ~ ex-Palm Beach, 76 ~ ~ ~
> ~ www.gmcmhphotos.com/okclb ~
> ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
>
>
>
>
> ----------------------------------------
>> To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
>> From: jarvis210@shaw.ca
>> Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2011 20:56:54 -0500
>> Subject: Re: [GMCnet] SILICONE BRAKE FLUID??
>>
>>
>>
>> http://www.motorcycleproject.com/motorcycle/text/cows-brakefluid.html
>> --
>> "I've always been crazy, but it kept me from going insane"
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
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| Re: [GMCnet] SILICONE BRAKE FLUID?? [message #119522 is a reply to message #119520] |
Mon, 21 March 2011 22:27 |
larry erd
Messages: 132
Registered: August 2010
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Thanks everyone for the brake fluid info, I'll stick to DOT 4, How is Royal
Purple
ATF for the 425 trans??
larry erd
On Mon, Mar 21, 2011 at 11:13 PM, Kosier <gkosier@roadrunner.com> wrote:
> No Mac, you just didn't pay attention. He said DOT 3, 4,
> and 5.1 are ALL glycol. DOT 5 and DOT 5.1 are two
> very different fluids.
>
> Gary Kosier
> 77EII & 77PB
> Newark, Ohio
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "D C *Mac* Macdonald" <k2gkk@hotmail.com>
> To: <gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org>
> Sent: Monday, March 21, 2011 10:02 PM
> Subject: Re: [GMCnet] SILICONE BRAKE FLUID??
>
>
> >
> > Very interesting in that Mike asserts that DOT 3,
> > 4, and 5.1 are ALL glycol-based with the later
> > versions having increased performance.
> >
> > DOT 5 is the only silicone-based brake fluid.
> >
> > Have I misunderstood that???
> >
> >
> > ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
> > ~~ ~ D C "Mac" Macdonald ~ ~~
> > ~ ~ Amateur Radio - K2GKK ~ ~
> > ~ ~ USAF and FAA, Retired ~ ~
> > ~ ~ ~ Oklahoma City, OK ~ ~ ~
> > ~~ ~ ~ "The Money Pit" ~ ~ ~~
> > ~ ~ ~ ex-Palm Beach, 76 ~ ~ ~
> > ~ www.gmcmhphotos.com/okclb ~
> > ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ----------------------------------------
> >> To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
> >> From: jarvis210@shaw.ca
> >> Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2011 20:56:54 -0500
> >> Subject: Re: [GMCnet] SILICONE BRAKE FLUID??
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> http://www.motorcycleproject.com/motorcycle/text/cows-brakefluid.html
> >> --
> >> "I've always been crazy, but it kept me from going insane"
> > _______________________________________________
> > GMCnet mailing list
> > Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> > http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
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>
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| Re: [GMCnet] SILICONE BRAKE FLUID?? [message #119531 is a reply to message #119503] |
Mon, 21 March 2011 23:28 |
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USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
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Senior Member |
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David,
Terrific reference, THANKS!
Regards,
Rob M.
USAussie - Downunder
AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
-----Original Message-----
From: gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org
[mailto:gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of David H. Jarvis
Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2011 12:57 PM
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] SILICONE BRAKE FLUID??
http://www.motorcycleproject.com/motorcycle/text/cows-brakefluid.html
--
"I've always been crazy, but it kept me from going insane"
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Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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| Re: [GMCnet] SILICONE BRAKE FLUID?? [message #119533 is a reply to message #119522] |
Mon, 21 March 2011 23:33 |
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USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
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Senior Member |
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Larry,
Manny Trovao our tranny guru uses Mobil 1 Synthetic trans fluid.
http://tinyurl.com/8wj8q
http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/MotorOil/Other_Products/Mobil_1_Syntheti
c_ATF.aspx
Regards,
Rob M.
USAussie - Downunder
AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
-----Original Message-----
From: gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org
[mailto:gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of larry erd
Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2011 2:27 PM
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] SILICONE BRAKE FLUID??
Thanks everyone for the brake fluid info, I'll stick to DOT 4, How is Royal
Purple
ATF for the 425 trans??
larry erd
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GMCnet mailing list
Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
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Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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| Re: [GMCnet] SILICONE BRAKE FLUID?? [message #119617 is a reply to message #119493] |
Tue, 22 March 2011 13:16 |
emerystora
Messages: 4442
Registered: January 2004
Karma: 13
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On Mar 21, 2011, at 7:06 PM, Rob Mueller wrote:
> Larry,
>
> DOT 3, 4, and 5.1 are glycol based on fluids that are hydroscopic, when
> exposed to the air they absorb moisture which lowers the boiling point of
> the fluid which is NOT good.
>
> Regards,
> Rob M.
> USAussie - Downunder
> AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
> USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
>
However, it is also GOOD because water is sometimes entrained on the wheel cylinder seals and dragged into the system or introduced by the air entry into the master cylinder. Being hydroscopic also means that the water is taken into solution where, although it will lower the boiling point, it will not freeze and block the action of the brakes. The fluid should be changed once in a while (perhaps every 2 or 3 years) to take care of the boiling point problem.
Emery Stora
77 Kingsley
Santa Fe, NM
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| Re: [GMCnet] SILICONE BRAKE FLUID?? [message #119633 is a reply to message #119617] |
Tue, 22 March 2011 14:46 |
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USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
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Senior Member |
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Emery,
I'm confused, this first time I have ever heard that moisture in the brake
system is GOOD.
I forgot to mention it but along with lowering the boiling point does it not
cause corrosion in wheel cylinder and caliper bores roughening the surface
on which the seals ride which in turn damages the seals on the pistons
leading to leakage?
Regards,
Rob M.
USAussie - Downunder
AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
-----Original Message-----
From: gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org
[mailto:gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of Emery Stora
Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2011 5:16 AM
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] SILICONE BRAKE FLUID??
On Mar 21, 2011, at 7:06 PM, Rob Mueller wrote:
> Larry,
>
> DOT 3, 4, and 5.1 are glycol based on fluids that are hydroscopic, when
> exposed to the air they absorb moisture which lowers the boiling point of
> the fluid which is NOT good.
>
> Regards,
> Rob M.
> USAussie - Downunder
> AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
> USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
>
However, it is also GOOD because water is sometimes entrained on the wheel
cylinder seals and dragged into the system or introduced by the air entry
into the master cylinder. Being hydroscopic also means that the water is
taken into solution where, although it will lower the boiling point, it will
not freeze and block the action of the brakes. The fluid should be changed
once in a while (perhaps every 2 or 3 years) to take care of the boiling
point problem.
Emery Stora
77 Kingsley
Santa Fe, NM
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Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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