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| Trans question [message #117456] |
Fri, 04 March 2011 01:52  |
Luvn737s
Messages: 1106
Registered: June 2007
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I am poised to pull the non-leaking pan on my transmission, but I could very easily be talked out of it. I have mentioned before that on cold starts or after sitting for any extended period of time, the transmission will choose not to go into drive. Generally it will immediately go into any gear initially, but after the first shift ( say out of gear when stopped while in drive or reverse) it balks at going back into a selected gear.
I am guessing that perhaps the filter has come disconnected. When I add a little fluid, this seems to "cure" it which makes me think that the filer is not picking up fluid and the initial engagement is from fluid already in the transmission body. I am thinking that there is fluid that comes out of the transmission back to the pan that raises the average fluid level just enough to get picked up and on I go with no further problems.
So before I pull off my non-leaking pan, does anyone want to convince me my theory is bunk and I need to look elsewhere? Cause I'd rather not end up sealing and resealing a pan if I don't have to.
Randy
1973 26' Painted Desert
Ahwatukee (Phoenix) AZ
[Updated on: Fri, 04 March 2011 01:53] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: [GMCnet] Trans question [message #117460 is a reply to message #117456] |
Fri, 04 March 2011 02:44  |
James Hupy
Messages: 6806
Registered: May 2010
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Manny might have a more definitive answer than this but I would suspect a
plugged filter, not a loose one. If you have a stock pan, that filter isn't
going to go anywhere. But the o-ring between the filter & the valve body
sometimes disintegrates. A lot of guys will use two of the new hypalon or
other synthetic o-rings instead of the stock one.
Jim Hupy
Salem, Or
78 GMC Royale 403
On Thu, Mar 3, 2011 at 11:52 PM, Randy <Acrosport2@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> I am poised to pull the non-leaking pan on my transmission, but I could
> very easily be talked out of it. I have mentioned before that on cold starts
> or after sitting for any extended period of time, the transmission will
> choose not to go into drive. Generally it will immediately go into any gear
> initially, but after the first shift ( say out of gear when stopped while in
> drive or reverse) it balks at going back into a selected gear.
>
> I am guessing that perhaps the filter has come disconnected. When I add a
> little fluid, this seems to "cure" it which makes me think that the filer is
> not picking up fluid and the initial engagement is from fluid already in the
> transmission body. I am thinking that there is fluid that comes out of the
> transmission back to the pan that raises the average fluid level just enough
> to get picked up and on I go with no further problems.
>
> So before I pull off my non-leaking pan, does anyone want to convince me my
> theory is bunk and I need to look elsewhere?
> --
> Randy
> 1973 26' Painted Desert
> Ahwatukee (Phoenix) AZ
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
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| Re: [GMCnet] Trans question [message #117462 is a reply to message #117460] |
Fri, 04 March 2011 04:06 |
emerystora
Messages: 4442
Registered: January 2004
Karma: 13
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Good thinking, James. I was going to answer about the same way. I also
suspect a clogged filter.
I have seen that happen on a few peoples' GMCs. Not many change the
fluid and filter at the recomended miles as they should.
Emery Stora
Emery
On Mar 4, 2011, at 1:44 AM, James Hupy <jamesh1296@gmail.com> wrote:
> Manny might have a more definitive answer than this but I would
> suspect a
> plugged filter, not a loose one. If you have a stock pan, that
> filter isn't
> going to go anywhere. But the o-ring between the filter & the valve
> body
> sometimes disintegrates. A lot of guys will use two of the new
> hypalon or
> other synthetic o-rings instead of the stock one.
> Jim Hupy
> Salem, Or
> 78 GMC Royale 403
>
> On Thu, Mar 3, 2011 at 11:52 PM, Randy <Acrosport2@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> I am poised to pull the non-leaking pan on my transmission, but I
>> could
>> very easily be talked out of it. I have mentioned before that on
>> cold starts
>> or after sitting for any extended period of time, the transmission
>> will
>> choose not to go into drive. Generally it will immediately go into
>> any gear
>> initially, but after the first shift ( say out of gear when stopped
>> while in
>> drive or reverse) it balks at going back into a selected gear.
>>
>> I am guessing that perhaps the filter has come disconnected. When I
>> add a
>> little fluid, this seems to "cure" it which makes me think that the
>> filer is
>> not picking up fluid and the initial engagement is from fluid
>> already in the
>> transmission body. I am thinking that there is fluid that comes out
>> of the
>> transmission back to the pan that raises the average fluid level
>> just enough
>> to get picked up and on I go with no further problems.
>>
>> So before I pull off my non-leaking pan, does anyone want to
>> convince me my
>> theory is bunk and I need to look elsewhere?
>> --
>> Randy
>> 1973 26' Painted Desert
>> Ahwatukee (Phoenix) AZ
>> _______________________________________________
>> GMCnet mailing list
>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
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| Re: [GMCnet] Trans question [message #117468 is a reply to message #117464] |
Fri, 04 March 2011 07:33 |
Keith V
Messages: 2337
Registered: March 2008
Location: Mounds View,MN
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Is it worth putting a shit kit in these transmissions while it's open??
If so which one?
Keith Vasilakes
Mounds View. MN
75 ex Royale GMC
ask me about MicroLevel
Cell, 763-732-3419
My427v8@hotmail.com
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| Re: [GMCnet] Trans question [message #117469 is a reply to message #117468] |
Fri, 04 March 2011 07:38 |
jhb1
Messages: 303
Registered: February 2004
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Keith watch your language or do you just have fat fingers like me
John H. Bell
77 Royale; QuadBag,Manny OneTon,Honda EV4010, FITech
Montreal Qc.
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| Re: [GMCnet] Trans question [message #117470 is a reply to message #117468] |
Fri, 04 March 2011 07:38 |
Rick Williams
Messages: 256
Registered: July 2004
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| Keith V wrote on Fri, 04 March 2011 08:33 |
Is it worth putting a shit kit in these transmissions while it's open??
If so which one?
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Sounds like his transmission is bad enough. Or did you mean "shift" kit.
Rick Williams
Bliss, Michigan
1978 Eleganza II
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| Re: Trans question [message #117471 is a reply to message #117456] |
Fri, 04 March 2011 07:49 |
PETEinLongBeach
Messages: 90
Registered: June 2007
Location: Long Beach, CA
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My transmission is doing exactly the same thing on occasion, only when cold. After it warms up a bit, it goes right into gear just like new. It is at MGMGMC having a bunch of things done, so I'm having him change the fluid & filter and see if it helps.
Pete Smay
Long Beach, CA
1977 Kingsley
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| Re: [GMCnet] Trans question [message #117479 is a reply to message #117471] |
Fri, 04 March 2011 08:37 |
jimk
Messages: 6734
Registered: July 2006
Location: Belmont, CA
Karma: 9
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In general, a shift kit will cause other problems such as thrust
bearing problem.
I went through 4 engines untill a trans. Instructor at a trade school
figured that out for us.
The fill tube has a O ring that will leak at the final drive and cause
leakage that people do not see oo well.
I have found that when there is a delay when cold, it tells me the
pump is not working tooo well when cold , Keep an eye on this to see
that it does not get worse.
On Fri, Mar 4, 2011 at 5:49 AM, Pete <peteinlb@aol.com> wrote:
>
>
> My transmission is doing exactly the same thing on occasion, only when cold. Â After it warms up a bit, it goes right into gear just like new. Â It is at MGMGMC having a bunch of things done, so I'm having him change the fluid & filter and see if it helps.
> --
> Pete Smay
> Long Beach, CA
> 1977 Kingsley
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--
Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC, Fremont,CA
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
http://www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
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Jim Kanomata
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www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
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| Re: Trans question [message #117484 is a reply to message #117456] |
Fri, 04 March 2011 08:56 |
GeorgeRud
Messages: 1380
Registered: February 2007
Location: Chicago, IL
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Mine has done the same, so it's time for new fluid and filter from the sounds of the posts. I've not changed either since I acquired the coach, and don't have records of past service.
If it is a pump going downhill, is the failure mode a slow one or is that something that causes the transmission to die suddenly?
George Rudawsky
Chicago, IL
75 Palm Beach
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| Re: [GMCnet] Trans question [message #117486 is a reply to message #117484] |
Fri, 04 March 2011 09:04 |
jimk
Messages: 6734
Registered: July 2006
Location: Belmont, CA
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The trans fluie rises in the pan by 2-4 inch when it sits as the
converter leakes back into the tranny.
It would always be a good idea to change filter and fluid on our
trans.as they are overworked more than normal.
On Fri, Mar 4, 2011 at 6:56 AM, George Rudawsky <GeorgeRud@aol.com> wrote:
>
>
> Mine has done the same, so it's time for new fluid and filter from the sounds of the posts. Â I've not changed either since I acquired the coach, and don't have records of past service.
>
> If it is a pump going downhill, is the failure mode a slow one or is that something that causes the transmission to die suddenly?
>
>
> --
> George Rudawsky
> Chicago, IL
> 75 Palm Beach
> _______________________________________________
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--
Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC, Fremont,CA
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
http://www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
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Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
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| Re: [GMCnet] Trans question [message #117489 is a reply to message #117484] |
Fri, 04 March 2011 09:09 |
James Hupy
Messages: 6806
Registered: May 2010
Karma: -62
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Sometimes, the shifting linkages between the steering column and the
transmission are poorly adjusted or just plain worn out and the lever on the
side of the transmission does not get indexed properly when gears are
selected. This will cause problems that seem similar to the ones described.
As the clutches in the transmission wear, black gooey residue from them will
accumulate in the transmission pan, and when the transmission is cold, have
the effect of making the fluid more viscous & reluctant to circulate until
it warms up. As for pump wear, it won't heal itself. Performance gradually
gets poorer until there is insufficient pressures to make the servos apply
properly. When slippage occurs, rapid failure is not far behind. The good
news in all of this is that they can be repaired and most parts are
available as are rebuilt transmissions. See your favorite vendor for prices
& availability. I know Jim K on the West coast has them, and Manny has them
also.
Jim Hupy
Salem, Or
78 GMC Royale 403
On Fri, Mar 4, 2011 at 6:56 AM, George Rudawsky <GeorgeRud@aol.com> wrote:
>
>
> Mine has done the same, so it's time for new fluid and filter from the
> sounds of the posts. I've not changed either since I acquired the coach,
> and don't have records of past service.
>
> If it is a pump going downhill, is the failure mode a slow one or is that
> something that causes the transmission to die suddenly?
>
>
> --
> George Rudawsky
> Chicago, IL
> 75 Palm Beach
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
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| Re: Trans question [message #117490 is a reply to message #117484] |
Fri, 04 March 2011 09:16 |
Bob de Kruyff
Messages: 4260
Registered: January 2004
Location: Chandler, AZ
Karma: 1
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| GeorgeRud wrote on Fri, 04 March 2011 07:56 |
Mine has done the same, so it's time for new fluid and filter from the sounds of the posts. I've not changed either since I acquired the coach, and don't have records of past service.
If it is a pump going downhill, is the failure mode a slow one or is that something that causes the transmission to die suddenly?
|
Another possibility is a leaking convertor seal.The symptoms only show up after sitting for a while but once started and running for a bit, all will be normal. What happens is that the convertor leaks down and needs to refill before it can move. The leak is internal so you won't see any fluid externally.
Bob de Kruyff
78 Eleganza
Chandler, AZ
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| Re: Trans question [message #117514 is a reply to message #117456] |
Fri, 04 March 2011 11:30 |
Chr$
Messages: 2690
Registered: January 2004
Location: Scottsdale, AZ
Karma: 1
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Mine new tranny does that when cold too. Higher engine revs seem to help, but it doesn't engage like my old one did, and the indexing on the shifter doesn't seem as tight...
-Chr$: Perpetual SmartAss
Scottsdale, AZ
77 Ex-Kingsley 455 SOLD!
2010 Nomad 24 Ft TT 390W PV W/MPPT, EV4010 and custom cargo door.
Photosite: Chrisc GMC:"It has Begun" TT: "The Other Woman"
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| Re: Trans question [message #117599 is a reply to message #117456] |
Fri, 04 March 2011 22:19 |
Luvn737s
Messages: 1106
Registered: June 2007
Karma: 2
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I changed the filter 2 years (4000 miles) ago when I installed the trans temp sender (which has also gone bad) and I purposely only changed 1/2 the fluid re-using 1/2 so as to not scrub down the innards of the trans and cause it to fail.
Perhaps 1/2 was enough to clean it and clog the filter, hopefully not with bits of my transmission.
Well I guess I'll jack it up and see what I see. Thanks everyone!
Randy
1973 26' Painted Desert
Ahwatukee (Phoenix) AZ
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| Re: [GMCnet] Trans question [message #117611 is a reply to message #117610] |
Sat, 05 March 2011 00:14 |
jimk
Messages: 6734
Registered: July 2006
Location: Belmont, CA
Karma: 9
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Senior Member |
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Rob,
When you change 100 of the fluid on a old unit, the darn thing
developers a problem within few days and you know what the customer
blames.
By changing smaller percentage, there is less chance of this happening.
First time I heard of this you know my reaction.
On Fri, Mar 4, 2011 at 10:04 PM, Rob Mueller <robmueller@iinet.net.au> wrote:
> Randy,
>
> I have never heard of anyone draining fluid out of any transmission and then
> putting half the old oil back in. I don't understand the logic.
>
> Also the trans filter ain't much of a filter. I vaguely remember looking
> down the outlet pipe and seeing what looked like horse hair seat cushion
> material.
>
> I did a search for "filter" and another for "transmission" and there are
> pictures of the filter but none of them opened up.
>
> Do you think you could cut the one you remove open so we can see what the
> innards look like?
>
> Regards,
> Rob M.
> USAussie - Downunder
> AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
> USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Randy
>
> I purposely only changed 1/2 the fluid re-using 1/2 so as to not scrub down
> the innards of the trans and cause it to fail.
>
> Perhaps 1/2 was enough to clean it and clog the filter, hopefully not with
> bits of my transmission.
>
> Well I guess I'll jack it up and see what I see. Â Thanks everyone!
> --
> Randy
> 1973 26' Painted Desert
> Ahwatukee (Phoenix) AZ
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
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> _______________________________________________
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--
Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC, Fremont,CA
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
http://www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
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Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
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