Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » [GMCnet] Must read-Electric Car/GMC
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| Re: [GMCnet] Must read-Electric Car/GMC [message #116986 is a reply to message #116983] |
Mon, 28 February 2011 18:58   |
hertfordnc
Messages: 1164
Registered: September 2009
Location: East NC
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Roger,
I'm pretty politically incorrect but there are flaws in the piece.
Electric cars are not intended for long trips. No one is suggesting that.
Most people have a car they take on long family trips and a car they drive to work in. If the commuter vehicle is electric there's a lot of money to be saved. I for one would love it for my 27 mile commute on mostly flat roads. It'll be a long time before it's worth $40k but those prices will come down.
As for domestic oil, if we got every drop of gas from Texas it would not affect gas prices. The same people would own the oil, Shell, Exxon, BP, etc and they would sell to the highest bidders around the world. And we would be stuck paying whatever China is willing to pay.
Dave & Ellen Silva
Hertford, NC
76 Birchaven, 1-ton and other stuff
Currently planning the Great american Road Trip Summer 2021
It's gonna take a lot of Adderall to get this thing right.
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| Re: [GMCnet] Must read-Electric Car/GMC [message #116987 is a reply to message #116986] |
Mon, 28 February 2011 19:04 |
Russell Mehlenbacher
Messages: 128
Registered: June 2010
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And I'm willing to bet his Grandfather wouldn't have tried to use a
screwdriver as a wood chisel...
On Mon, Feb 28, 2011 at 7:58 PM, dave silva <admin@oldrv.net> wrote:
>
>
> Roger,
>
> I'm pretty politically incorrect but there are flaws in the piece.
>
> Electric cars are not intended for long trips. No one is suggesting that.
>
>
--
Russ & Linda Mehlenbacher
Rochester, MI
'74 X-Sequoia
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Russ & Linda Mehlenbacher
Rochester Hills, Michigan
'76 Eleganza
'74 Sequoia
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| Re: [GMCnet] Must read-Electric Car/GMC [message #116989 is a reply to message #116986] |
Mon, 28 February 2011 19:20 |
Larry C
Messages: 1168
Registered: July 2004
Location: NE Illinois by the Illino...
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Im pretty much thinking the same as you on the 'Lectric Car.
It is not, nor has it been advertised as a long distance vehicle, thats what public trans are for.
They have always been boasted as local vehicles....
All they have to do is figure out the power supply..........
Gatsbys' CRUISER  08-18-04
74 GLACIER X, 260/455-APC-4 Bagg'r
Remflex Manifold gaskets
CampGrounds needed, Add yours to "PLACES" />
http://www.gmceast.com/travel
_
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| Re: [GMCnet] Must read-Electric Car/GMC [message #117025 is a reply to message #116989] |
Tue, 01 March 2011 07:36 |
Keith V
Messages: 2337
Registered: March 2008
Location: Mounds View,MN
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| Larry C wrote on Mon, 28 February 2011 19:20 |
Im pretty much thinking the same as you on the 'Lectric Car.
It is not, nor has it been advertised as a long distance vehicle, thats what public trans are for.
They have always been boasted as local vehicles....
All they have to do is figure out the power supply..........
|
Whats Up Doc?
What a maroon, what an ignoranimous...
Keith Vasilakes
Mounds View. MN
75 ex Royale GMC
ask me about MicroLevel
Cell, 763-732-3419
My427v8@hotmail.com
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| Re: [GMCnet] Must read-Electric Car/GMC [message #117026 is a reply to message #117025] |
Tue, 01 March 2011 07:38 |
Keith V
Messages: 2337
Registered: March 2008
Location: Mounds View,MN
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| Keith V wrote on Tue, 01 March 2011 07:36 |
| Larry C wrote on Mon, 28 February 2011 19:20 |
Im pretty much thinking the same as you on the 'Lectric Car.
It is not, nor has it been advertised as a long distance vehicle, thats what public trans are for.
They have always been boasted as local vehicles....
All they have to do is figure out the power supply..........
|
Whats Up Doc?
What a maroon, what an ignoranimous...
|
Keith Vasilakes
Mounds View. MN
75 ex Royale GMC
ask me about MicroLevel
Cell, 763-732-3419
My427v8@hotmail.com
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| Re: [GMCnet] Must read-Electric Car/GMC [message #117027 is a reply to message #117025] |
Tue, 01 March 2011 07:40 |
Keith V
Messages: 2337
Registered: March 2008
Location: Mounds View,MN
Karma: 0
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| Keith V wrote on Tue, 01 March 2011 07:36 |
| Larry C wrote on Mon, 28 February 2011 19:20 |
Im pretty much thinking the same as you on the 'Lectric Car.
It is not, nor has it been advertised as a long distance vehicle, thats what public trans are for.
They have always been boasted as local vehicles....
All they have to do is figure out the power supply..........
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Whats Up Doc?
What a maroon, what an ignoranimous...
|
Dang good day at the computer today....
I wanted to say that the 'maroon' would be the blogger, not Larry!
Keith Vasilakes
Mounds View. MN
75 ex Royale GMC
ask me about MicroLevel
Cell, 763-732-3419
My427v8@hotmail.com
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| Re: [GMCnet] Must read-Electric Car/GMC [message #117029 is a reply to message #116983] |
Tue, 01 March 2011 07:46 |
Steven Ferguson
Messages: 3447
Registered: May 2006
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My sentiments lie on your side Roger, I'm not too sure of the logic of
buying an ele car. We've been awfully good at squeezing a gallon gas for
all it's worth and we're getting better. The ele to charge those battery
banks has to come from somewhere and then there's the problem of recycling
the remains of those batteries a few years down the line. Tough to justify
the cost of those cars too.
The oil in the ground in the US belongs to US. Not congress. Let's get it
out of the ground and into our tanks, evolution into some other form of
energy will happen when it needs to.
On Mon, Feb 28, 2011 at 5:24 PM, Roger Black <r1black@comcast.net> wrote:
> Caution, may be politically incorrect. It does, however, make a lot
> of sense when you think about it.
>
> http://billbalsamico.com/blog/
>
> Wonder how many horses it'll take to pull a GMC?
>
> Roger Black
> 77 Birchaven
> Burns, Tn
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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Steve Ferguson
Sierra Vista, AZ
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| Re: [GMCnet] Must read-Electric Car/GMC [message #117030 is a reply to message #117027] |
Tue, 01 March 2011 07:46 |
emerystora
Messages: 4442
Registered: January 2004
Karma: 13
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You went right over my head with "maroon" until I realized you must
have meant "moron".
Emery Stora
On Mar 1, 2011, at 6:40 AM, Keith V <my427v8@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> Keith V wrote on Tue, 01 March 2011 07:36
>> Larry C wrote on Mon, 28 February 2011 19:20
>>> Im pretty much thinking the same as you on the 'Lectric Car.
>>>
>>> It is not, nor has it been advertised as a long distance vehicle,
>>> thats what public trans are for.
>>>
>>> They have always been boasted as local vehicles....
>>>
>>> All they have to do is figure out the power supply..........
>>
>>
>> Whats Up Doc?
>> What a maroon, what an ignoranimous...
>
> Dang good day at the computer today....
>
> I wanted to say that the 'maroon' would be the blogger, not Larry!
> --
> Keith
> 69 Vette
> 29 Dodge
> 75 Royale GMC
> _______________________________________________
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| Re: [GMCnet] Must read-Electric Car/GMC [message #117038 is a reply to message #117030] |
Tue, 01 March 2011 08:02 |
k2gkk
Messages: 4452
Registered: November 2009
Karma: -8
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Hi, Emery.
I can't believe you have never watched Bugs Bunny cartoons!
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
~~ ~ D C "Mac" Macdonald ~ ~~
~ ~ Amateur Radio - K2GKK ~ ~
~ ~ USAF and FAA, Retired ~ ~
~ ~ ~ Oklahoma City, OK ~ ~ ~
~~ ~ ~ "The Money Pit" ~ ~ ~~
~ ~ ~ ex-Palm Beach, 76 ~ ~ ~
~ www.gmcmhphotos.com/okclb ~
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
> From: emerystora@mac.com
> To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
> Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2011 06:46:14 -0700
> Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Must read-Electric Car/GMC
>
> You went right over my head with "maroon" until I realized you must
> have meant "moron".
>
> Emery Stora
>
> On Mar 1, 2011, at 6:40 AM, Keith V <my427v8@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > Keith V wrote on Tue, 01 March 2011 07:36
> >> Larry C wrote on Mon, 28 February 2011 19:20
> >>> Im pretty much thinking the same as you on the 'Lectric Car.
> >>>
> >>> It is not, nor has it been advertised as a long distance vehicle,
> >>> thats what public trans are for.
> >>>
> >>> They have always been boasted as local vehicles....
> >>>
> >>> All they have to do is figure out the power supply..........
> >>
> >>
> >> Whats Up Doc?
> >> What a maroon, what an ignoranimous...
> >
> > Dang good day at the computer today....
> >
> > I wanted to say that the 'maroon' would be the blogger, not Larry!
> > --
> > Keith
> > 69 Vette
> > 29 Dodge
> > 75 Royale GMC
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| Re: [GMCnet] Must read-Electric Car/GMC [message #117040 is a reply to message #117030] |
Tue, 01 March 2011 08:17 |
hertfordnc
Messages: 1164
Registered: September 2009
Location: East NC
Karma: 0
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"maroon" is the bugs bunny pronunciation.
But the math works on electric vehicles. It is a cheaper way of converting energy.
I don't have the exact consumption figures but you can work it out backwards;
If it charges in ten hours on 120 VAC then the charger can only pull 20 amps.
So that's 24 KW in ten hours. At $.10/kw (what I pay) that's $2.40
If i can get 50 miles back and forth to work that's good thing.
But i think the numbers would be much better.
Dave & Ellen Silva
Hertford, NC
76 Birchaven, 1-ton and other stuff
Currently planning the Great american Road Trip Summer 2021
It's gonna take a lot of Adderall to get this thing right.
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| Re: [GMCnet] Must read-Electric Car/GMC [message #117046 is a reply to message #117029] |
Tue, 01 March 2011 08:49 |
Jim Bounds
Messages: 842
Registered: January 2004
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Don't forget, there are 2 things you are talking about here-- one is the
economic aspect of going electric with the other being "save that whale". Sorry
but it will cost money to save the planet if thats what you feel you need to
do. How can it both be an economic and socal win-win? To yank out asbestos
from a building costs $ and to replace it with something new that will not kill
you costs even more! It costs more to pull oil from the ground and not endanger
the sea life, these are 2 different goals.
If someone challenged me to build an electric GMC, it would cost a pretty penny
but of course that is just an estimate. Swapping out the original drive train
for a Duramax turbo diesel cost big bucks but ken got 15 mpg heading into a
headwind with the wrong diff gear into the wind. With a better gear for the
job, he should get better mileage-- but is the expense worth it----- on a P&L
no, on a economy chart taking away the initial cost--- yes. So what will it be,
blow through $250,000 of gas or spend it now and spend less in fuel costs. What
is the better way-- sorta depends on hoe you look at it. I can tell you Ken did
it, invested the bucks up front and now he can say he's "saving money"-- right?
All of this is good fodder for a rainy day and fun to bat around but be careful
if you are making some decision to do something about it-- you may find yourself
doing something you did not bargain for!
Jim Bounds
--------------------
----- Original Message ----
From: Steven Ferguson <botiemad11@gmail.com>
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Sent: Tue, March 1, 2011 8:46:44 AM
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Must read-Electric Car/GMC
My sentiments lie on your side Roger, I'm not too sure of the logic of
buying an ele car. We've been awfully good at squeezing a gallon gas for
all it's worth and we're getting better. The ele to charge those battery
banks has to come from somewhere and then there's the problem of recycling
the remains of those batteries a few years down the line. Tough to justify
the cost of those cars too.
The oil in the ground in the US belongs to US. Not congress. Let's get it
out of the ground and into our tanks, evolution into some other form of
energy will happen when it needs to.
On Mon, Feb 28, 2011 at 5:24 PM, Roger Black <r1black@comcast.net> wrote:
> Caution, may be politically incorrect. It does, however, make a lot
> of sense when you think about it.
>
> http://billbalsamico.com/blog/
>
> Wonder how many horses it'll take to pull a GMC?
>
> Roger Black
> 77 Birchaven
> Burns, Tn
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
--
Steve Ferguson
Sierra Vista, AZ
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| Re: [GMCnet] Must read-Electric Car/GMC [message #117048 is a reply to message #117041] |
Tue, 01 March 2011 09:14 |
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Matt Colie
Messages: 8547
Registered: March 2007
Location: S.E. Michigan
Karma: 7
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| Robert Mueller wrote on Tue, 01 March 2011 09:14 |
G'day,
I may have missed it but there seems to be one point that doesn't get mentioned a lot when it comes to electric cars.
When you plug it in to recharge it the electricity that is used had to be generated by:
1) burning fossil fuel
2) solar energy
3) wind energy
4) atomic energy
Did I miss any?
Number 1) creates pollution and contributes to global warming.
Numbers 2) and 3) don't create pollution or contribute to global warming as far as I know.
Number 4) generates nuclear waste that needs to be handled and stored very carefully.
Regards,
Rob M.
USAussie - Downunder
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Yes Rob,
You missed both standing hydro and tidal hydro.
Both are as clean and effective as you can get, but are as limited as both wind and solar.
I live in Michigan.
This state is so flat that water almost does not run off it. So standing hydro is almost non-existent (~100 dams produce ~400MW at peak). Tidal can't happen here.
There is nowhere in the state that solar is dependable and will ever amortize its installation cost.
There is a small stretch of western shoreline where a wind installation will amortize in less than 15 years of the equipment requires no repair in that period.
A LEAF us price is about 30K$us. A little bit pricey for a "station car". It won't sell here as a pretty standard commute is 50 miles and you are running either the heat or the air - sometimes both. OK, you can maybe do the 50 miles when it is new, but not after a few years and don't even think about a side trip to get groceries on the way home.
A Michigan resident went to Suffolk county (Long Island - New York) to get a Chevy Volt. He drove it home and got 34 MPG on the trip. My wife's 2001 Civic does that back and forth to work. My diesel rabbit used to get 56 on the highway and had range limited by the drivers bladder and the fuel tank. (A tank at 55 [national speed limit then] was 11 1/2 hours.)
If you work the processes all back to ground, the pollution from the life of and electric car is not any better than a conventional gasoline fueled vehicle running lead free gas and with the scrap lubricants effectively recycled. Looking at the whole pictures does not go over well with emotional agendas. A complete (all inclusive) spreadsheet will disprove most focused agendas.
Now, if you had a special version of any EV (electric vehicle) as a toad that had been modified to use its regenerative braking any time you requested a retard, then I would easily be fully charged by the end of a day's driving and at no additional cost at all. This is an idea I really like, but I don't have the money to even start a patent search.
Isn't this a whole lot like discussion we just had a diesel conversion for a GMC?
By the by, don't go looking up the USCG report of known and tap-able oil reserves in the US as of 2008, it will just annoy you.
Matt
Matt & Mary Colie - Chaumière -'73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan with OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Near DTW - Twixt A2 and Detroit
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| Re: [GMCnet] Must read-Electric Car/GMC [message #117049 is a reply to message #117046] |
Tue, 01 March 2011 09:09 |
emerystora
Messages: 4442
Registered: January 2004
Karma: 13
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Senior Member |
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On Mar 1, 2011, at 7:49 AM, Jim Bounds wrote:
> but is the expense worth it----- on a P&L
> no, on a economy chart taking away the initial cost--- yes. So what will it be,
> blow through $250,000 of gas or spend it now and spend less in fuel costs. What
> is the better way-- sorta depends on hoe you look at it. I can tell you Ken did
> it, invested the bucks up front and now he can say he's "saving money"-- right?
>
I know that Jim said "taking away the initial costs" but if one doesn't ignore the initial costs then this type of upgrade makes no economic sense.
$250,000 at say $5.00 per gallon equals 50,000 gallons of gasoline. At 7 miles per gallon that equals 350,000 miles. Someone once said that the average GMCer drives less than 5 or 10 thousand miles per year. Assuming 10,000 miles that would mean a 35 year payback. If one throws in the carrying costs (lost interest on the $250,000) then it could be up to 50 or 70 years depending of ones estimate of the interest rate.
So why do people do this type of upgrade -- certainly not for the economics. Rather "because I can".
Not many of us have $250,000 loose change laying around.
Emery Stora
77 Kingsley
Santa Fe, NM
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| Re: [GMCnet] Must read-Electric Car/GMC [message #117057 is a reply to message #117029] |
Tue, 01 March 2011 09:51 |
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hnielsen2
Messages: 1434
Registered: February 2004
Location: Alpine CA
Karma: 0
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Question!
What do we do with the old batteries after they will no longer hold a
charge?
Howard
Alpine Ca
----- Original Message -----
From: "Steven Ferguson" <botiemad11@gmail.com>
To: <gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org>
Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2011 5:46 AM
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Must read-Electric Car/GMC
> My sentiments lie on your side Roger, I'm not too sure of the logic of
> buying an ele car. We've been awfully good at squeezing a gallon gas for
> all it's worth and we're getting better. The ele to charge those battery
> banks has to come from somewhere and then there's the problem of recycling
> the remains of those batteries a few years down the line. Tough to
> justify
> the cost of those cars too.
> The oil in the ground in the US belongs to US. Not congress. Let's get
> it
> out of the ground and into our tanks, evolution into some other form of
> energy will happen when it needs to.
>
> On Mon, Feb 28, 2011 at 5:24 PM, Roger Black <r1black@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>> Caution, may be politically incorrect. It does, however, make a lot
>> of sense when you think about it.
>>
>> http://billbalsamico.com/blog/
>>
>> Wonder how many horses it'll take to pull a GMC?
>>
>> Roger Black
>> 77 Birchaven
>> Burns, Tn
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> GMCnet mailing list
>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Steve Ferguson
> Sierra Vista, AZ
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
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All is well with my Lord
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| Re: [GMCnet] Must read-Electric Car/GMC [message #117058 is a reply to message #116983] |
Tue, 01 March 2011 09:58 |
jknezek
Messages: 1057
Registered: December 2007
Karma: 5
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Senior Member |
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You also missed geothermal energy. Check out Iceland and Costa Rica. 2 countries that generate their entire national electricity needs through renewable resources. Iceland is actually looking for ways to export geothermal energy to Europe.
I do believe the time for electric cars is coming for at least one car per family (not a mandate, just eventual common sense). However, I stress the COMING. The Volt / Leaf / etc. are interesting ideas, but we still need to improve on batteries and efficiency. I also am terrified of the recycling issue that will appear, as well as the problems with the needed battery materials being in areas of the world every bit as unstable and hostile to the U.S. as the Middle East.
However, I will point out for those of you that like to say we'll still have fossil fuel based powerplants I completely agree. But we all know that scale leads to efficiencies, and your local powerplant is significantly more efficient, per unit of energy and per unit of pollution, than your GMC or even your economy car will ever be. That is a simple fact and one that everyone resistant to electric cars needs to realize and stop putting forth the argument that tailpipes aren't any different polluters than powerplants. They are by a large margin.
I make this point over and over to people. We aren't running out of energy, we are running out of CHEAP energy from both an exploration, exploitation, implementation and social point of view. Find ways to be more efficient, or spend more. Your choice.
Personally, I don't think the GMC can be made more efficient from a practical economic perspective. Fortunately, I'm happy to pay more to keep my GMC on the road making family memories. Because otherwise I'm just going to pay more for airline tickets, train tickets, car gasoline, hotel rooms, restaurants and road tolls to make a different kind of memory anyway.
Thanks,
Jeremy Knezek
1976 Glenbrook
Birmingham, AL
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| Re: Consumer Reports has no axe to grind..... [message #117074 is a reply to message #117073] |
Tue, 01 March 2011 11:16 |
hertfordnc
Messages: 1164
Registered: September 2009
Location: East NC
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Maybe the GMC coach was the last time GM did innovation well.
I mean, just because the Volt may not be all that special, doen't mean the technology can't be better exploited.
Some of us snickered at the Prius but i found a good deal on a Civic Hybrid and I absolutely love it. And all the math works for me. I've considered the cost of replacing a battery pack and the math still works.
Remember the personal computer revolution? IBM was always chasing two guys in their garage.
Check this article in wired on the Tesla.
So even if chevy may have a built a dud, and maybe the Nissan Leaf is overpriced, doesn't mean it can't be done.
Dave & Ellen Silva
Hertford, NC
76 Birchaven, 1-ton and other stuff
Currently planning the Great american Road Trip Summer 2021
It's gonna take a lot of Adderall to get this thing right.
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