Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » A Few Engine Building Pictures
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| Re: A Few Engine Building Pictures [message #116428 is a reply to message #116425] |
Thu, 24 February 2011 21:03   |
Chr$
Messages: 2690
Registered: January 2004
Location: Scottsdale, AZ
Karma: 1
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So you guys are building the engine that failed... Thanks for the pics. Nice to watch.
Chose Blue this time, eh? Looks good.
-Chr$: Perpetual SmartAss
Scottsdale, AZ
77 Ex-Kingsley 455 SOLD!
2010 Nomad 24 Ft TT 390W PV W/MPPT, EV4010 and custom cargo door.
Photosite: Chrisc GMC:"It has Begun" TT: "The Other Woman"
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| Re: A Few Engine Building Pictures [message #116432 is a reply to message #116425] |
Thu, 24 February 2011 21:10 |
Carl S.
Messages: 4186
Registered: January 2009
Location: Tucson, AZ.
Karma: 13
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Lookin' good, Dan
Carl Stouffer
'75 ex Palm Beach
Tucson, AZ.
Chuck Aulgur Reaction Arm Disc Brakes, Quadrabags, 3.70 LSD final drive, Lenzi knuckles/hubs, Dodge Truck 16" X 8" front wheels, Rear American Eagles, Solar battery charging. GMCSJ and GMCMI member
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| Re: A Few Engine Building Pictures [message #116434 is a reply to message #116425] |
Thu, 24 February 2011 21:23 |
roy1
Messages: 2126
Registered: July 2004
Location: Minden nevada
Karma: 6
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The good thing about being there while the engine is put together is you know exactly what went into it and if all the parts were checked for correct tolorance. For instance if each bearing was plastic gaged you know there are no tight or loose bearings etc. I'll be leaving Blythe (Quartsite) tomorrow heading for the LA area then home, my engine has a little less miles on it then yours did when it failed . After what you are going thru you can be sure I will be thinking about you as I make the climb over the high Siereas as I head north.
Roy.
Roy Keen
Minden,NV
76 X Glenbrook
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| Re: [GMCnet] A Few Engine Building Pictures [message #116467 is a reply to message #116446] |
Fri, 25 February 2011 07:36 |
shawnee
Messages: 422
Registered: February 2004
Location: NC
Karma: 0
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| Mr ERFisher wrote on Thu, 24 February 2011 23:14 |
looks like Patterson believes in a high-volume oil pump
http://goo.gl/D0PaI
picture shot at an old presentation
gene
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Gene,
Dick Paterson put a high volume oil pump in my engine about 13 years ago and about 70,000 miles ago and it works fine. 50 psi on start up and when running and about 35 psi at idle.
Gene Dotson
74 Canyonlands
www.bdub.net/Motorhome_Enhancements New Windows and Aluminum Radiators
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| Re: [GMCnet] A Few Engine Building Pictures [message #116468 is a reply to message #116455] |
Fri, 25 February 2011 07:46 |
MIGUEL MENDEZ
Messages: 179
Registered: August 2004
Location: Montclair, California
Karma: 3
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Well, oil pumps now, are like oil itself, which to use and so on, all we ever have use was the FHV pumps, never had any problems, but, if you had low oil pressure with that pump. or any pump for that matter, then it is most of the times that the bearings were not the right size, or to big, which will reduce oil pressure, however, in looking at my shop notes, we had 60 psi at start up, and just below 50 at hot and running 2,500 rpm.
All motors that "WE" put together at my shop always run the FHV, never had a problem with them, so i find it hard to believe that the pump was the cause.
in fact, i was looking at viedo of several motors we ran in here, if the customer is not here, we viedo the run in and show the rpm, vaccum, and oil pressure as well as the running of the motor so the customer can see his results, not, i did not film Dan's, as he was there watching every step and on the test stand, it seemed like a good motor.
i really am sorry to hear of the failure but i really do not believe it was the oil cooler, nor the oil pump.
I had a co op jasper motor do the same thing, and after romoving that motor, sending it back with oil pant still installed, they sent me another motor, the result was, debris in the motor cause the bearing to grind away, wow, even jasper screwed up, but it happened to use with there motor, that its why, i rather install my own motors, i can control every process.
Look, lets be real here, i have opened up mobil 1 motors and i have opened up penzoil motor, not differance at all, both are dirty as hell inside, but building one of these Olds motors is not that big a deal, it is just like anyother motor, measure 5 times and fit once, plastigage every bearing, no matter how you measured, put the plasting on the crank and double chek it, PITA, i know but only takes a few moments longer.
I just pulled out a 455 from a customer that had a local shop do his motor, he said we cost to much, well it lasted about 400 miles, and now he is paying me to redo his motor, god no, i am not the perfect builder, and i may be slow at it, but i try to do it right abd build a good lasting, stock motor, no so called RV cam, just stock, they just run best that way, but, i will build it bigger if the customer wants.
What have i learned here???, i rather just use my motors, outside motors just seen to not be built right and we seem to keep having the same issues over and over, i learned my lesson with jasper, never will i use them again as a supplier to my shop, sorry, been burned 4 times by them and i am still waiting, after almost a year to get paid for warr. work, forget it, there are curtain things i just will not get outside of the circle, i only use manny trans, never ammco, sorry, final drives, only from jim k, never the 3.42, it is a good gear, but the warr. sucks when something goes wrong, jim k, all i have to do is call him and say i have a noisy 3.55, 3.70 etc..., and i got a replacement the next day at my door step, the 3.42, i have to remove it, box it, sned back east on my tab, wait to get it inspected and hope they send me another, i do not have 2 weeks to wait with a motor home sitting in my way, so, a motor is a motor, not ture, i found out the hard way.
Thanks for your time and Dan, god bless and god luck in your travels.
Miguel
1978 Royale Pain in the %$@, side bath w/ a 403 that i love.
GMC name : The other woman
http://www.mgmgmc.com
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| Re: [GMCnet] A Few Engine Building Pictures [message #116492 is a reply to message #116487] |
Fri, 25 February 2011 11:07 |
Carl S.
Messages: 4186
Registered: January 2009
Location: Tucson, AZ.
Karma: 13
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| WD0AFQ wrote on Fri, 25 February 2011 09:31 |
Well, I will see if I can start another thread when I post more pictures. I guess my oil pump comment should have been kept to myself. How do I know what happened? Life is still good for Teri and me. For all I know the earth is flat, except for the Rockies.
Dan
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Hey Dan,
It has been stated, in another thread, that opinions are like a... etc. I guess we will have all kinds of opinions as to what caused your rod bearing failure, but after talking to John, I would tend to trust his 45+ years of experience. It could be something totally unrelated to the HV oil pump, but then again... who knows.
Carl Stouffer
'75 ex Palm Beach
Tucson, AZ.
Chuck Aulgur Reaction Arm Disc Brakes, Quadrabags, 3.70 LSD final drive, Lenzi knuckles/hubs, Dodge Truck 16" X 8" front wheels, Rear American Eagles, Solar battery charging. GMCSJ and GMCMI member
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| Re: [GMCnet] A Few Engine Building Pictures [message #116499 is a reply to message #116492] |
Fri, 25 February 2011 11:43 |
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WD0AFQ
Messages: 7111
Registered: November 2004
Location: Dexter, Mo.
Karma: 207
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| Carl S. wrote on Fri, 25 February 2011 11:07 |
| WD0AFQ wrote on Fri, 25 February 2011 09:31 |
Well, I will see if I can start another thread when I post more pictures. I guess my oil pump comment should have been kept to myself. How do I know what happened? Life is still good for Teri and me. For all I know the earth is flat, except for the Rockies.
Dan
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Hey Dan,
It has been stated, in another thread, that opinions are like a... etc. I guess we will have all kinds of opinions as to what caused your rod bearing failure, but after talking to John, I would tend to trust his 45+ years of experience. It could be something totally unrelated to the HV oil pump, but then again... who knows.
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You are correct Carl. I would not try to blame anyone for my misfortune. I will keep my comments to myself. Shame on me.
dan
3 In Stainless Exhaust Headers
One Ton All Discs/Reaction Arm
355 FD/Quad Bag/Alum Radiator Manny Tran/New eng.
Holley EFI/10 Tire Air Monitoring System
Solarized Coach/Upgraded Windows
Satelite TV/On Demand Hot Water/3Way Refer
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| Re: [GMCnet] A Few Engine Building Pictures [message #116502 is a reply to message #116498] |
Fri, 25 February 2011 11:54 |
James Hupy
Messages: 6806
Registered: May 2010
Karma: -62
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David, Generally speaking a high volume oil pump has longer gears and
housing, sometimes accompanyied by larger oil pick up passages and pick up
screen. Oil pressure is created by restricting the output flow with a spring
loaded plunger or ball. If the pump is in good condition with the proper
internal clearances so that the oil cannot escape around the ends of the
gears, higher pressure can often be achieved by using shims under the spring
to give it more preload, or by replacement of the spring with a heavier gage
one of the same length or still another method is a restriction orfice
although this defeats the purpose of a high volume pump. When running oil
pressure becomes lower than acceptable, the usual cause is often not the
pump, but combined wear in the shafts and bearings resultine in excessive
clearances. It is a good indicator of engine condition. When your hot idle
oil pressure is low, it is a symptom of wear in the engine and time for an
overhaul before the bearings get loose enough to slip their home position
and spin with the shaft. Not a good circumstance. Hope this helps explain
some differences.
Jim Hupy
Salem, Or
78 GMC Royale 403
On Fri, Feb 25, 2011 at 9:42 AM, David H. Jarvis <jarvis210@shaw.ca> wrote:
>
>
> Question....Does a high volume oil pump mean you will have high oil
> pressure? I don't think so.
> --
> "I've always been crazy, but it kept me from going insane"
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| Re: [GMCnet] A Few Engine Building Pictures [message #116555 is a reply to message #116498] |
Fri, 25 February 2011 18:12 |
Ken Burton
Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana
Karma: 10
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Senior Member |
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| Harry wrote on Fri, 25 February 2011 11:42 |
Question....Does a high volume oil pump mean you will have high oil pressure? I don't think so.
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Not necessarily.
The higher volume is most effective after the engine is well worn in and needs more oil flow due to wear clearances on bearings. The other times that extra volume can be used is when the engine get too hot and the oil thins out more than usual.
Under normal operation the excess oil volume that the pump can maintain is released back through the oil pressure spring loaded release valve DIRECTLY to the pan. It does NOT go through the engine as previously stated here. The strength of the spring in the pump determines the top oil pressure that can be achieved by the entire oil system.
The capacity of the pump, engine speed, thickness of the oil, and finally condition of the engine bearings determines the oil pressure at all other times below the top limit.
A high volume / normal pressure pump is a good thing that can maintain normal pressure over a wider range of operating conditions. It's good insurance.
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
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