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| [GMCnet] HP-2003 Oil Filter Micron Rating [message #116268] |
Wed, 23 February 2011 17:08  |
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USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
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Senior Member |
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G'day,
Some great customer service from K&N!
Regards,
Rob M.
USAussie - Downunder
AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
________________________________________
From: Rob Mueller [mailto:robmueller@iinet.net.au]
Sent: Thursday, February 24, 2011 8:31 AM
To: 'Cynthia Wert'
Subject: RE: HP-2003 Micron Rating
Cynthia,
Thanks for your follow up, I will pass the information below on to the
various automotive forums I participate in.
All the best,
Rob
________________________________________
From: Cynthia Wert [mailto:CynthiaW@knfilters.com]
Sent: Thursday, February 24, 2011 4:20 AM
To: 'Rob Mueller'
Subject: RE: HP-2003 Micron Rating
Hello Rob -
I regret that Micro Rating data is not provided to us.
Regards,
Cynthia R. Wert
International Account Manager
K&N ENGINEERING, INC.
951-826-4118 Direct
951-826-4007 FAX
cynthiaw@knfilters.com
________________________________________
From: Rob Mueller [mailto:robmueller@iinet.net.au]
Sent: Tuesday, February 22, 2011 7:55 PM
To: Cynthia Wert
Subject: RE: HP-2003 Micron Rating
Cynthia,
Thank you for your reply; unfortunately it doesn't answer my question.
Regards,
Rob
________________________________________
From: Cynthia Wert [mailto:CynthiaW@knfilters.com]
Sent: Wednesday, February 23, 2011 2:44 PM
To: 'robmueller@iinet.net.au'
Subject: FW: HP-2003 Micron Rating
Hello and Thank You for contacting K&N.
Please be advised that for the HP-2003 the filter stop 99% of harmful
contaminates.
Very Kind Regards,
Cynthia Wert
INTERNATIONAL ACCOUNT MANAGER
K&N Engineering, Inc.
951-826-4118 (Voice)
951-826-4007 (FAX)
CynthiaW@knfilters.com
________________________________________
From: Rob Mueller [mailto:robmueller@iinet.net.au]
Sent: Thursday, February 17, 2011 9:06 PM
To: Tech Support
Subject: HP-2003 Micron Rating
Hi,
Please advise the micron rating of your HP-2003 filter.
Thanks,
Rob
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Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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| Re: [GMCnet] HP-2003 Oil Filter Micron Rating [message #116280 is a reply to message #116268] |
Wed, 23 February 2011 17:16  |
emerystora
Messages: 4442
Registered: January 2004
Karma: 13
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Senior Member |
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On Feb 23, 2011, at 4:08 PM, Rob Mueller wrote:
> G'day,
>
> Some great customer service from K&N!
Do you really think that they do not know the micro rating of their filters???
Of course they do! They just don't want to tell it because K&N filters do not have a very good (low) micron rating.
They depend on the oil coating to catch the small particles. The filter media itself is not very good at catching small particles. i use a K&N but one much religiously clean and respray the oil onto the filter to get good performance.
Emery Stora
>
> Regards,
> Rob M.
> USAussie - Downunder
> AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
> USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
> ________________________________________
> From: Rob Mueller [mailto:robmueller@iinet.net.au]
> Sent: Thursday, February 24, 2011 8:31 AM
> To: 'Cynthia Wert'
> Subject: RE: HP-2003 Micron Rating
>
> Cynthia,
>
> Thanks for your follow up, I will pass the information below on to the
> various automotive forums I participate in.
>
> All the best,
> Rob
> ________________________________________
> From: Cynthia Wert [mailto:CynthiaW@knfilters.com]
> Sent: Thursday, February 24, 2011 4:20 AM
> To: 'Rob Mueller'
> Subject: RE: HP-2003 Micron Rating
>
> Hello Rob -
>
> I regret that Micro Rating data is not provided to us.
>
> Regards,
>
> Cynthia R. Wert
> International Account Manager
> K&N ENGINEERING, INC.
> 951-826-4118 Direct
> 951-826-4007 FAX
> cynthiaw@knfilters.com
>
> ________________________________________
> From: Rob Mueller [mailto:robmueller@iinet.net.au]
> Sent: Tuesday, February 22, 2011 7:55 PM
> To: Cynthia Wert
> Subject: RE: HP-2003 Micron Rating
>
> Cynthia,
>
> Thank you for your reply; unfortunately it doesn't answer my question.
>
> Regards,
> Rob
> ________________________________________
> From: Cynthia Wert [mailto:CynthiaW@knfilters.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, February 23, 2011 2:44 PM
> To: 'robmueller@iinet.net.au'
> Subject: FW: HP-2003 Micron Rating
>
> Hello and Thank You for contacting K&N.
>
> Please be advised that for the HP-2003 the filter stop 99% of harmful
> contaminates.
>
> Very Kind Regards,
>
> Cynthia Wert
> INTERNATIONAL ACCOUNT MANAGER
> K&N Engineering, Inc.
> 951-826-4118 (Voice)
> 951-826-4007 (FAX)
> CynthiaW@knfilters.com
> ________________________________________
> From: Rob Mueller [mailto:robmueller@iinet.net.au]
> Sent: Thursday, February 17, 2011 9:06 PM
> To: Tech Support
> Subject: HP-2003 Micron Rating
>
> Hi,
>
> Please advise the micron rating of your HP-2003 filter.
>
> Thanks,
> Rob
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
Emery Stora
77 Kingsley
Santa Fe, NM
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| Re: [GMCnet] HP-2003 Oil Filter Micron Rating [message #116281 is a reply to message #116280] |
Wed, 23 February 2011 20:05 |
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Emery,
I heartily agree with you on this.
My dad was the VP of engineering at Champion Labs in Illinois for several
years. They knew exactly what the micron rating was on their filters that
went to Ford and Chrysler. Of course, they had their own lines they sold.
The difference in their three lines were the number of folds in the filter
element. Otherwise it was the same paper.
I think the statement "traps 99% of the harmful contaminants" is vague and
ambiguous. Sounds more like marketing speak than anything else. It sure
isn't the language of an engineer.
--
Byron Songer
1978 GMC Royale
Louisville, KY
http://www.gmceast.com
http://web.me.com/bnsonger
Emery Stora wrote:
> Do you really think that they do not know the micro rating of their filters???
>
> Of course they do! They just don't want to tell it because K&N filters do not
> have a very good (low) micron rating.
>
> They depend on the oil coating to catch the small particles. The filter media
> itself is not very good at catching small particles. i use a K&N but one much
> religiously clean and respray the oil onto the filter to get good performance.
>
> Emery Stora
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--
Byron Songer
Full-timing to enjoy the USA
Former owner but still an admirer
GMC paint schemes at -
http://www.songerconsulting.net
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| Re: [GMCnet] HP-2003 Oil Filter Micron Rating [message #116283 is a reply to message #116268] |
Wed, 23 February 2011 20:24 |
Ken Burton
Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana
Karma: 10
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Senior Member |
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| Robert Mueller wrote on Wed, 23 February 2011 17:08 |
G'day,
Some great customer service from K&N!
Regards,
Rob M.
USAussie - Downunder
AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
________________________________________
From: Rob Mueller [mailto:robmueller@iinet.net.au]
Sent: Thursday, February 24, 2011 8:31 AM
To: 'Cynthia Wert'
Subject: RE: HP-2003 Micron Rating
Cynthia,
Thanks for your follow up, I will pass the information below on to the
various automotive forums I participate in.
All the best,
Rob
________________________________________
From: Cynthia Wert [mailto:CynthiaW@knfilters.com]
Sent: Thursday, February 24, 2011 4:20 AM
To: 'Rob Mueller'
Subject: RE: HP-2003 Micron Rating
Hello Rob -
I regret that Micro Rating data is not provided to us.
Regards,
Cynthia R. Wert
International Account Manager
K&N ENGINEERING, INC.
951-826-4118 Direct
951-826-4007 FAX
cynthiaw@knfilters.com
________________________________________
From: Rob Mueller [mailto:robmueller@iinet.net.au]
Sent: Tuesday, February 22, 2011 7:55 PM
To: Cynthia Wert
Subject: RE: HP-2003 Micron Rating
Cynthia,
Thank you for your reply; unfortunately it doesn't answer my question.
Regards,
Rob
________________________________________
From: Cynthia Wert [mailto:CynthiaW@knfilters.com]
Sent: Wednesday, February 23, 2011 2:44 PM
To: 'robmueller@iinet.net.au'
Subject: FW: HP-2003 Micron Rating
Hello and Thank You for contacting K&N.
Please be advised that for the HP-2003 the filter stop 99% of harmful
contaminates.
Very Kind Regards,
Cynthia Wert
INTERNATIONAL ACCOUNT MANAGER
K&N Engineering, Inc.
951-826-4118 (Voice)
951-826-4007 (FAX)
CynthiaW@knfilters.com
________________________________________
From: Rob Mueller [mailto:robmueller@iinet.net.au]
Sent: Thursday, February 17, 2011 9:06 PM
To: Tech Support
Subject: HP-2003 Micron Rating
Hi,
Please advise the micron rating of your HP-2003 filter.
Thanks,
Rob
|
You used the word "MICRON" twice in your request. The responder used the word "MICRO" in her response. This sounds like a marketing person responding who hasn't a clue what you are asking about. I doubt any real research was done by her on your question.
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
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| Re: [GMCnet] HP-2003 Oil Filter Micron Rating [message #116285 is a reply to message #116268] |
Wed, 23 February 2011 20:33 |
Dennis S
Messages: 3046
Registered: November 2005
Karma: 2
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Senior Member |
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Rob,
May be different now but as recent as last year K&N 2003 and Mobil One 203 were the same filter with the little tool extension being the only difference -- and both made by Champion.
A brief look at the Mobil One did not show any micron spec.
Dennis
| Robert Mueller wrote on Wed, 23 February 2011 17:08 |
G'day,
Some great customer service from K&N!
Regards,
Rob M.
USAussie - Downunder
AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
________________________________________
From: Rob Mueller [mailto:robmueller@iinet.net.au]
Sent: Thursday, February 24, 2011 8:31 AM
To: 'Cynthia Wert'
Subject: RE: HP-2003 Micron Rating
Cynthia,
Thanks for your follow up, I will pass the information below on to the
various automotive forums I participate in.
All the best,
Rob
________________________________________
From: Cynthia Wert [mailto:CynthiaW@knfilters.com]
Sent: Thursday, February 24, 2011 4:20 AM
To: 'Rob Mueller'
Subject: RE: HP-2003 Micron Rating
Hello Rob -
I regret that Micro Rating data is not provided to us.
Regards,
Cynthia R. Wert
International Account Manager
K&N ENGINEERING, INC.
951-826-4118 Direct
951-826-4007 FAX
cynthiaw@knfilters.com
________________________________________
From: Rob Mueller [mailto:robmueller@iinet.net.au]
Sent: Tuesday, February 22, 2011 7:55 PM
To: Cynthia Wert
Subject: RE: HP-2003 Micron Rating
Cynthia,
Thank you for your reply; unfortunately it doesn't answer my question.
Regards,
Rob
________________________________________
From: Cynthia Wert [mailto:CynthiaW@knfilters.com]
Sent: Wednesday, February 23, 2011 2:44 PM
To: 'robmueller@iinet.net.au'
Subject: FW: HP-2003 Micron Rating
Hello and Thank You for contacting K&N.
Please be advised that for the HP-2003 the filter stop 99% of harmful
contaminates.
Very Kind Regards,
Cynthia Wert
INTERNATIONAL ACCOUNT MANAGER
K&N Engineering, Inc.
951-826-4118 (Voice)
951-826-4007 (FAX)
CynthiaW@knfilters.com
________________________________________
From: Rob Mueller [mailto:robmueller@iinet.net.au]
Sent: Thursday, February 17, 2011 9:06 PM
To: Tech Support
Subject: HP-2003 Micron Rating
Hi,
Please advise the micron rating of your HP-2003 filter.
Thanks,
Rob
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
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Dennis S
73 Painted Desert 230
Memphis TN Metro
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| Re: [GMCnet] HP-2003 Oil Filter Micron Rating [message #116290 is a reply to message #116283] |
Wed, 23 February 2011 20:43 |
Ken Burton
Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana
Karma: 10
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Senior Member |
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After the postings here I have been reading about aviation oil cooler cleaning. Most aviation engines are air cooled and have an auxiliary oil cooler.
It turns out that the cleaning process is very intensive and lengthy. They are primarily concerned with cleaining out any accumulated sludge and carbon. In the process of removing that stuff they also get any metal particles left embedded in the gunk removed.
The one cleaning company in S. California, which I believe is the one Jim K. uses, uses a 10 micron screen in the exhaust of the cooler cleaning agent. They keep cleaning until nothing is trapped in the 10 micron screen. Their comment was that a normal aviation oil filter is good to about 30 microns. Many aviation engines only use a screen and not a throw away filter.
I going to research what micron rating filter media is used in our automotive filters. I'm still interested in how that crap got into Dan's rod bearings. The stuff he showed in his pictures was all bigger than 30 microns.
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
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| Re: [GMCnet] HP-2003 Oil Filter Micron Rating [message #116314 is a reply to message #116289] |
Wed, 23 February 2011 23:03 |
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USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
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Senior Member |
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G'day,
First I'll provide an explanation of why I sent the question to K&N in the
first place.
I switched from Shell Rotella T 15-40W to Royal Purple Synthetic SAE 40 as
an experiment to see if a single viscosity synthetic oil will reduce the
engine oil consumption. Doing so has an added bonus of not having to bother
changing the oil at 3000 miles. I can change it when I put Double Trouble in
storage. I was concerned about running the filter twice as long too.
I have had an off net discussion about this and was advised that the 3000
mile oil change interval was established in 1973 and the oil formulations
back then were no where near as good as what's available now. I could have
just swapped over to SAE 40 dino oil and done the same thing.
I would like to note that I have not calibrated my dipstick, nor have I
tried running a quart low. I will do so on the upcoming trip to Patterson
and Bean Station.
On to the comments:
Emery,
I agree with your statements regarding K&N Air filters, you do need to clean
and re-oil them regularly. I have one on my Harley and have been happy with
its performance.
I should have noted that the HP-2003 was an oil filter in the message text.
Byron,
In doing my research I noted that Champion Labs makes oil filters for a
bunch of different companies. I agree that Cynthia definitely isn't an
engineer!
Ken,
You echoed what Byron noted but put it a bit more bluntly when you noted
Cynthia "hasn't a clue."
Dennis,
Thanks for the link, 18 microns is better than the other filters, they were
21 microns. Do I think 3 microns (0.0001181099 in.) better makes a
difference, nope!
After reviewing all the data and watching a few videos about oil filters
posted on YouTube I think JR Wright was right! The Wix 51049 is the best
choice for the 455 as recommended by Dick Patterson.
Regards,
Rob M.
USAussie - Downunder
AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
_______________________________________________
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Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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| Re: [GMCnet] HP-2003 Oil Filter Micron Rating [message #116318 is a reply to message #116314] |
Thu, 24 February 2011 00:05 |
Ken Burton
Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana
Karma: 10
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Senior Member |
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Rob,
Please do not run one quart low.
The capacity of the 455 with filter is 6 quarts. When you drain the oil, one quart gets left in the front sump, oil lines, and oil cooler. If you change the filter and drain the oil it will take 5 quarts to fill it up again. On mine a 5 quart refill put the oil level exactly on the full mark.
I suggest you drain the oil next time and put 5 quarts in it. Run the engine a minute or so to check for leaks and shut it off. Then check the oil level in 10 or 15 minutes to see if your stick is calibrated correctly. Mine was right on the money but some other people have reported that their's read differently.
I use Rotella 15W40 and Wix oil filters. At 6000 miles or once a season in the fall before I park it for the winter I change the oil. I can tell when I have reached 6,000 miles just by checking the oil. At one quart low I have gone 6,000 miles.
Please do not run one quart low.
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
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| Re: [GMCnet] HP-2003 Oil Filter Micron Rating [message #116326 is a reply to message #116318] |
Thu, 24 February 2011 06:43 |
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USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
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Senior Member |
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Ken
Regards,
Rob M.
USAussie - Downunder
AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
-----Original Message-----
From: gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org
[mailto:gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of Ken Burton
Sent: Thursday, February 24, 2011 5:06 PM
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] HP-2003 Oil Filter Micron Rating
Rob,
Please do not run one quart low.
The capacity of the 455 with filter is 6 quarts. When you drain the oil,
one quart gets left in the front sump, oil lines, and oil cooler. If you
change the filter and drain the oil it will take 5 quarts to fill it up
again. On mine a 5 quart refill put the oil level exactly on the full mark.
I suggest you drain the oil next time and put 5 quarts in it. Run the
engine a minute or so to check for leaks and shut it off. Then check the
oil level in 10 or 15 minutes to see if your stick is calibrated correctly.
Mine was right on the money but some other people have reported that their's
read differently.
I use Rotella 15W40 and Wix oil filters. At 6000 miles or once a season in
the fall before I park it for the winter I change the oil. I can tell when
I have reached 6,000 miles just by checking the oil. At one quart low I
have gone 6,000 miles.
Please do not run one quart low.
--
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
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Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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| Re: [GMCnet] HP-2003 Oil Filter Micron Rating [message #116330 is a reply to message #116318] |
Thu, 24 February 2011 07:07 |
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USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
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Senior Member |
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Ken,
Looks like I just sent a Jim K response! ;-)
Reading your response made me realize I didn't say what I meant correctly.
I should have noted that I had not calibrated my dipstick and I don't know
if it reads the oil level correctly. To calibrate it I was going to drain
the oil from the pan and put 5 quarts in it and see where it came to on the
dipstick before I started the engine. Is that the correct method of
calibrating the dipstick?
I was going to allow the engine to drop down to the Add mark on the dipstick
and see if it stopped there or kept dropping. If it stopped there that would
indicate that the dipstick was not marked correctly would it not?
I installed a second drain in Double Trouble's oil pan. IIRC when I drained
the oil out of the pan before putting Double Trouble into storage I got a
bit less than a pint out of the front sump. That is with the front end
jacked up high enough for me to crawl under and remove the plugs. Does that
sound right to anyone else that has a dual drain oil pan?
I vaguely remember looking at some pictures on the Photo Site of how to
calibrate the dipstick and the "normal" oil level in the pan. Am I loosing
it or can someone tell me where they are?
Regards,
Rob M.
USAussie - Downunder
AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
-----Original Message-----
From: gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org
[mailto:gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of Ken Burton
Sent: Thursday, February 24, 2011 5:06 PM
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] HP-2003 Oil Filter Micron Rating
Rob,
Please do not run one quart low.
The capacity of the 455 with filter is 6 quarts. When you drain the oil,
one quart gets left in the front sump, oil lines, and oil cooler. If you
change the filter and drain the oil it will take 5 quarts to fill it up
again. On mine a 5 quart refill put the oil level exactly on the full mark.
I suggest you drain the oil next time and put 5 quarts in it. Run the
engine a minute or so to check for leaks and shut it off. Then check the
oil level in 10 or 15 minutes to see if your stick is calibrated correctly.
Mine was right on the money but some other people have reported that their's
read differently.
I use Rotella 15W40 and Wix oil filters. At 6000 miles or once a season in
the fall before I park it for the winter I change the oil. I can tell when
I have reached 6,000 miles just by checking the oil. At one quart low I
have gone 6,000 miles.
Please do not run one quart low.
--
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
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GMCnet mailing list
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_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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| Re: [GMCnet] HP-2003 Oil Filter Micron Rating [message #116373 is a reply to message #116331] |
Thu, 24 February 2011 14:11 |
|
USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
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Senior Member |
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Ken,
Thanks!
Regards,
Rob M.
USAussie - Downunder
AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
-----Original Message-----
From: gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org
[mailto:gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of Ken Henderson
Sent: Friday, February 25, 2011 12:28 AM
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Cc: Rob Mueller
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] HP-2003 Oil Filter Micron Rating
Rob,
These measurements show that the front sump will hold exactly one quart when
level, so with the front end high, a pint drained is not unreasonable
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/showgallery.php?cat=3942
<http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/showgallery.php?cat=3942>
Ken H.
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Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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| Re: [GMCnet] HP-2003 Oil Filter Micron Rating [message #116386 is a reply to message #116330] |
Thu, 24 February 2011 15:34 |
Ken Burton
Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana
Karma: 10
|
Senior Member |
|
|
It takes 5 quarts with the pan level AND A FILTER CHANGE. You must run the engine after refilling to fill up the filter oil cooler and oil lines. That just brings my dipstick to the full level.
I think the rest of your questions were answered by Ken Henderson's pictures on the photo site.
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
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