Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » [GMCnet] The correct Olds 455 motor ?
| [GMCnet] The correct Olds 455 motor ? [message #115880] |
Sun, 20 February 2011 17:16  |
Oldrvguybcg
Messages: 100
Registered: September 2008
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To All -
I'm working on lining up a motor to rebuild/core for my 74 Sequoia. Does
the motor need to be from a GMC Motorhome / Olds Tornado or will any Olds 455
block work as a rebuild / core? What is the best source out there for a
new motor? Ultimately I would like to replace the motor, tranny, and final
drive. The MH has 127K on it and I was told by the P.O. that the motor was
rebuilt about 50K ago. Any input would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks,
Brian Gleissner
74 Sequoia
Woodbury, CT
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| Re: [GMCnet] The correct Olds 455 motor ? [message #115935 is a reply to message #115880] |
Sun, 20 February 2011 21:28  |
Adrien G.
Messages: 474
Registered: May 2008
Location: Burns Flat, OK 73624
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Brian
50k for a motor, that doesn't see stop and go like cars does, is not a lot of miles. That said, there are checks that you can done to ascertain what the condition is:
1-what the cyl compression is, and difference between cyl.
2- what the oil pressure is at idle & cruise rpm, both cold and hot oil
3- what the vacuum gauge readings are, and how steady it reads.
4- sparkplug color, means combustion burn condition.
5- check the timing chain slack. with a braker bar & socket on the front crank pulley bolt, ease the crank back & forth and feel for slack, there shouldn't be any. Minor repair if it does.
6- how much oil is consumed and not leaked, leaks can be fixed.
If all these check are ok, then I would leave the engine be.
Hope this can help on your decision.
Adrien & Jenny Genesoto
75 Glenbrook (26-3) Mods LS3.70 FD / Reaction Sys / 80mm Front&Intermidiate / Hydroboost / 16" Tires / Frame Rebuild / Interior Rebuild
Yuba City,Ca. Text 530-nine-3-three-3-nine-nine-6
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| Re: [GMCnet] The correct Olds 455 motor ? [message #115937 is a reply to message #115935] |
Sun, 20 February 2011 22:07 |
Craig Lechowicz
Messages: 541
Registered: October 2006
Location: Waterford, MI
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Brian,
This site <http://www.442.com/oldsfaq/ofe455.htm> gives a lot of information on the 455's. You can go back to <www.442.com/> for more information and article links as well. It's been a while since I've read it, and I'm hoping not to need it for a while yet, but, I like the idea of building at least a shortblock up before pulling my current engine out.
From what I recall, for the block, crank, rods, I don't think it makes much difference. If you want to use a stock intake, it has to be from a Toronado as they have a lower profile to allow the hatch cover to fit. GMC cylinder heads are somewhat specific as they have the smaller ports and exhaust valve rotators which you'll get differing opinions on as to their usefullnes.
I'm surprised you haven't gotten more input yet, as there a lot of people out there with good engine building experience for our coaches. I'd be curious on more GMC specific opinions from the group on this as well, as I have most of a Toro 455 engine for parts, and a friend allegedly has a couple more of in-determinate source and condition I might be able to latch on to.
Also, on checking your existing engine, a couple other things you might consider is a compression test, a cylinder leakage test, and an engine oil analysis. I've gotten not so good compression results, but my 35 year old gauge was kind of wanky, so I have to retest, and iffy oil analysis results, but I used someone other than the Blackstone one that many on this site recommend. The one I used just gives sort of a red, yellow, green, result, while Blackstone gives actual ppm's which is more meaningful. (got the pre-paid bottle years ago before learning of Blackstone here). But, I'm concerned enough to start thinking of how to make what may be the inevitable as easy as possible.
Craig Lechowicz
'77 Kingsley, Waterford, MI
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| Re: [GMCnet] The correct Olds 455 motor ? [message #115971 is a reply to message #115966] |
Mon, 21 February 2011 10:03 |
John Sharpe
Messages: 489
Registered: February 2006
Location: Texas
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| Quote: |
What about the interchangeability of 455's and 403'
|
455 and 403's are interchangeable as far as mounting into the GMC. Same transmission/ final drive/ front motor mount. However, big difference is accessories. The alt, ac, ps brackets and pulleys are different as well as manifolds, hoses, carburetor, valve covers etc. The 403 is of the common Olds small block where the 455 is a higher deck big block.
The difference between MH/Toro engines and RWD models is the oil pan and intake on the 455.
If the 50k engine checks ok as described in previous posts, I'd drive it. Sometimes more problems are created by fixing something that's not broke.
John Sharpe
Humble,TX
'78 Eleganza TBI
'89 Spectrum 2000 MPI V-10
'40 Ford Panel Delivery TPI
johnasharpe@gmail.com
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| Re: [GMCnet] The correct Olds 455 motor ? [message #115972 is a reply to message #115970] |
Mon, 21 February 2011 10:00 |
James Hupy
Messages: 6806
Registered: May 2010
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I just tried this link and you should drop the L from .html for it to work.
Sorry for the confusion.
Jim Hupy
Salem, Or
78 GMC Royale 403
On Mon, Feb 21, 2011 at 7:57 AM, James Hupy <jamesh1296@gmail.com> wrote:
> In response to your question, there is some good info on Olds Big blocks at
> http://www.442.com/oldsfaq/ofblk.html If this link does not work for you,
> try to google Olds 455 identification and see what pops up. Takes a little
> research and sorting out, but the basic info is there.
> Jim Hupy
> Salem, Or
> 78 GMC Royale 403
>
> On Mon, Feb 21, 2011 at 7:39 AM, rick little <lttlrck@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> I've wondered the same thing about the interchangeability of 455's and
>> 403's
>>
>> Are all the blocks drilled and tapped on each side just above the oil pan
>> flange for the brackets that hold the front axles in place GMCs and Toro's?
>> _______________________________________________
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>
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| Re: [GMCnet] The correct Olds 455 motor ? [message #115979 is a reply to message #115971] |
Mon, 21 February 2011 12:45 |
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USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
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John,
Once upon a time; long; long ago in GMCnet land there was a mystery about
the cam in the Toronado and the cam in the GMC. Everybody wondered if it was
the same. The guy in Upsidedownland couldn't remember if it ever got
answered.
Waaadaayaa reckon, Mate?
Regards,
Rob M.
USAussie - Downunder
AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
-----Original Message-----
From: gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org
[mailto:gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of John Sharpe
Sent: Tuesday, February 22, 2011 3:04 AM
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] The correct Olds 455 motor ?
455 and 403's are interchangeable as far as mounting into the GMC. Same
transmission/ final drive/ front motor mount. However, big difference is
accessories. The alt, ac, ps brackets and pulleys are different as well as
manifolds, hoses, carburetor, valve covers etc. The 403 is of the common
Olds small block where the 455 is a higher deck big block.
The difference between MH/Toro engines and RWD models is the oil pan and
intake on the 455.
If the 50k engine checks ok as described in previous posts, I'd drive it.
Sometimes more problems are created by fixing something that's not broke.
--
John Sharpe
Humble,TX
'78 Eleganza TBI
'89 Spectrum 2000 V-10
'40 Ford Deluxe TBI
mailto:johnasharpe@gmail.com
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Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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| Re: [GMCnet] The correct Olds 455 motor ? [message #115982 is a reply to message #115979] |
Mon, 21 February 2011 13:33 |
Dave Mumert
Messages: 272
Registered: February 2004
Location: Olds, AB, Canada
Karma: 0
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Hi Rob
The OLDs FAQs show part number 400117 for the 455 engine (marine engines
used a different cam)
http://www.442.com/oldsfaq/ofcam.htm#Cams
The GMC parts book list the same number up until 1977 and 1978
Dave
> -----Original Message-----
> Sent: Monday, February 21, 2011 11:45
> To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
> Subject: Re: [GMCnet] The correct Olds 455 motor ?
>
> John,
>
> Once upon a time; long; long ago in GMCnet land there was a mystery about
> the cam in the Toronado and the cam in the GMC. Everybody wondered if it
> was the same. The guy in Upsidedownland couldn't remember if it ever got
> answered.
>
> Waaadaayaa reckon, Mate?
>
> Regards,
> Rob M.
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| Re: [GMCnet] The correct Olds 455 motor ? [message #115988 is a reply to message #115880] |
Mon, 21 February 2011 15:06 |
JohnL455
Messages: 4447
Registered: October 2006
Location: Woodstock, IL
Karma: 12
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Getting rid of the unknown from the PO is one way to approach it, but no guarantee you won't have a failure. I agree with the others before me here that if it ain't broke, don't fix it. IF the FD has no clunks or whines, if the trans shift fairly firm and not erratic, I might just put some money in changing all the fluids and filters and doing some fine tuning on the engine as far as timing and carb. You can really tell a lot by listening to the mechanicals for odd noises, ticks, knocks, and checking the exhaust pulses for smooth idle and so on besides the tests allready listed. Might be better to put the money aside into a major rainy day fund for if it does fail and then just get a known like a Jim K or one of our other vendor's motors/ trans/ FD at that point.
John Lebetski
Woodstock, IL
77 Eleganza II
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| Re: [GMCnet] The correct Olds 455 motor ? [message #115995 is a reply to message #115982] |
Mon, 21 February 2011 16:38 |
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USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
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Dave,
Thanks!
I wonder if you took the specs for Jim B's cam and compared it to the
various OEM cams if any would match or come close?
I looked over the table and noticed that from information in the Application
column cams from the 350, and 403. Assuming this is correct information
there was a myriad of cams available from Olds that could be used in the
455. I checked this table against the one in Joe Mondello's Technical
Reference Manual and it's the same.
I don't know enough off the top of my head but I wonder if any of the ones
listed would have been better for the GMC?
The Parts Book notes that P/N 400117 is for the 455 and the P/N 400084 is
for the 403.
Over Duration Lift
Year Part # lap Int./Exh. Int./Exh. Application
1968 393859 58 286/286 .472/.472 400 ST ex. OAI
402486 48 262/274 .440/.440 400 AT ex OAI, 350 w/ 269 Pol.
400117 44 258/272 .435/.435 455 Irrig, Mar, hi-comp ex Pol.,
Toro, hi-perf.
400084 36 250/264 .400/.400 350 ex. OAI
402194 82 308/308 .474/.474 350 W-31, Hurst ex CAC Casting
#389410
400165 57 285/287 .472/.472 455 Pol, Toro W-34, Hurst CAC
402569 108 328/328 .475/.475 400 OAI after 1-1-68
1969 393859 58 286/286 .472/.472 400 AT, W-32 OAI
400165 57 285/287 .472/.472 455 Pol, Toro W-34, F-85, Hurst,
455 Mar 4BC hi-perf
402486 48 262/274 .440/.440 3269 AT, 350 Pol.
402194 82 308/308 .474/.474 350 W-31 OAI
400117 44 258/272 .435/.435 455 ex. Pol., Toro, hi-perf.
402569 108 328/328 .475/.475 400 OAI ex. W-32
400084 36 250/264 .400/.400 350 ex. OAI
1970 393859 58 286/286 .472/.472 350 4BC ex. AT, OAI, hi-perf
400084 36 250/264 .400/.400 350 2BC, 4BC AT
400117 44 258/272 .435/.435 455 ex. Pol., Toro
400165 57 285/287 .472/.472 455 67, 4400 AT, Toro W-34
402486 8 262/274 .440/.440 455 Toro ex. W-34
402569 108 328/328 .475/.475 455 4400 ST OAI (W-30)
406768 68 294/296 .472/.472 455 4400 ST ex. OAI
402194 82 308/308 .474/.474 350 W-31 OAI
1971 400084 36 250/264 .400/.400 350 2BC, 4BC AT
400117 44 258/272 .435/.435 455 Toro w/2.73 axle, 455 ex 400 or
Perf. Eng.
400165 57 285/287 .472/.472 455 4400 OAI w/AC, 4400 AT
402486 48 262/274 .440/.440 350 4BC ST,455 Toro w/3.07
409691 61 286/287 .474/.472 455 4400 ST, AT OAI ex AC
409717 32 250/264 .400/.400 350 5400
409759 68 294/296 .472/.472 455 4400 ST OAI (W-30)
1972 400084 36 250/264 .400/.400 350 L34, 350 AT L32, 33 All
400117 44 258/272 .435/.435 455 All 4BC AT, Marine LC
402486 48 262/274 .440/.440 350 F-85 4BC ST (L34), Marine
409691 61 286/287 .474/.472 455 L75 ST,L77 AT, Marine HC
409759 68 294/296 .472/.472 455 F-85, 455 ST OAI (W-30)
1973 400084 36 250/264 .400/.400 350 L32, L33, L34
400117 44 258/272 .435/.435 455 AT, Marine, 455 LC
402486 48 262/274 .440/.440 350 ST M15, M20
409691 61 286/287 .474/.472 455 4BC, L77, Marine
1974 409691 61 286/287 .474/.472 455 AG37, 455 W-30, Marine
455 (also #562302)
400117 44 258/272 .435/.435 455 ex W-30, Marine, 455 LC
(Also #562303)
400084 36 250/264 .400/.400 350 (Also #562299)
1975 550638 28 242/250 .396/.400 260
400084 36 250/264 .400/.400 350 (Also #562299)
400117 44 258/272 .435/.435 455 (Also #562303)
409691 61 286/287 .474/.472 455 Marine (Reg.)
402486 48 262/274 .440/.440 350 Marine
409759 68 294/296 .472/.472 455 Marine Hi-perf.
1976 550638 28 242/250 .396/.400 260
400084 36 250/264 .400/.400 350
402194 82 308/308 .474/.474 455 Marine Hi-perf. F.P.
409759 68 294/296 .472/.472 455 Marine Hi-perf.
409691 61 286/287 .474/.472 350 and 455 Reg. Perf. Marine
400117 44 258/272 .435/.435 455 All, Irr., ex Marine
1977 562298 52 256/277 .247/.250 260 (thru 1982)
562299 36 250/264 .400/.400 350, 403 (thru 1980)
562301 68 294/296 .474/.472 403 Hi-perf. Marine thru 79
562302 61 286/287 .472/.472 350, 403 Reg. Perf Marine, ST thru
79
Regards,
Rob M.
USAussie - Downunder
AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
-----Original Message-----
From: gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org
[mailto:gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of Dave Mumert
Sent: Tuesday, February 22, 2011 6:33 AM
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] The correct Olds 455 motor ?
Hi Rob
The OLDs FAQs show part number 400117 for the 455 engine (marine engines
used a different cam)
http://www.442.com/oldsfaq/ofcam.htm#Cams
The GMC parts book list the same number up until 1977 and 1978
Dave
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Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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| Re: [GMCnet] The correct Olds 455 motor ? [message #115996 is a reply to message #115995] |
Mon, 21 February 2011 16:47 |
C Boyd
Messages: 2629
Registered: April 2006
Karma: 18
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Senior Member |
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| Robert Mueller wrote on Mon, 21 February 2011 17:38 |
Dave,
Thanks!
I wonder if you took the specs for Jim B's cam and compared it to the
various OEM cams if any would match or come close?
I looked over the table and noticed that from information in the Application
column cams from the 350, and 403. Assuming this is correct information
there was a myriad of cams available from Olds that could be used in the
455. I checked this table against the one in Joe Mondello's Technical
Reference Manual and it's the same.
I don't know enough off the top of my head but I wonder if any of the ones
listed would have been better for the GMC?
The Parts Book notes that P/N 400117 is for the 455 and the P/N 400084 is
for the 403.
Over Duration Lift
Year Part # lap Int./Exh. Int./Exh. Application
1968 393859 58 286/286 .472/.472 400 ST ex. OAI
402486 48 262/274 .440/.440 400 AT ex OAI, 350 w/ 269 Pol.
400117 44 258/272 .435/.435 455 Irrig, Mar, hi-comp ex Pol.,
Toro, hi-perf.
400084 36 250/264 .400/.400 350 ex. OAI
402194 82 308/308 .474/.474 350 W-31, Hurst ex CAC Casting
#389410
400165 57 285/287 .472/.472 455 Pol, Toro W-34, Hurst CAC
402569 108 328/328 .475/.475 400 OAI after 1-1-68
1969 393859 58 286/286 .472/.472 400 AT, W-32 OAI
400165 57 285/287 .472/.472 455 Pol, Toro W-34, F-85, Hurst,
455 Mar 4BC hi-perf
402486 48 262/274 .440/.440 3269 AT, 350 Pol.
402194 82 308/308 .474/.474 350 W-31 OAI
400117 44 258/272 .435/.435 455 ex. Pol., Toro, hi-perf.
402569 108 328/328 .475/.475 400 OAI ex. W-32
400084 36 250/264 .400/.400 350 ex. OAI
1970 393859 58 286/286 .472/.472 350 4BC ex. AT, OAI, hi-perf
400084 36 250/264 .400/.400 350 2BC, 4BC AT
400117 44 258/272 .435/.435 455 ex. Pol., Toro
400165 57 285/287 .472/.472 455 67, 4400 AT, Toro W-34
402486 8 262/274 .440/.440 455 Toro ex. W-34
402569 108 328/328 .475/.475 455 4400 ST OAI (W-30)
406768 68 294/296 .472/.472 455 4400 ST ex. OAI
402194 82 308/308 .474/.474 350 W-31 OAI
1971 400084 36 250/264 .400/.400 350 2BC, 4BC AT
400117 44 258/272 .435/.435 455 Toro w/2.73 axle, 455 ex 400 or
Perf. Eng.
400165 57 285/287 .472/.472 455 4400 OAI w/AC, 4400 AT
402486 48 262/274 .440/.440 350 4BC ST,455 Toro w/3.07
409691 61 286/287 .474/.472 455 4400 ST, AT OAI ex AC
409717 32 250/264 .400/.400 350 5400
409759 68 294/296 .472/.472 455 4400 ST OAI (W-30)
1972 400084 36 250/264 .400/.400 350 L34, 350 AT L32, 33 All
400117 44 258/272 .435/.435 455 All 4BC AT, Marine LC
402486 48 262/274 .440/.440 350 F-85 4BC ST (L34), Marine
409691 61 286/287 .474/.472 455 L75 ST,L77 AT, Marine HC
409759 68 294/296 .472/.472 455 F-85, 455 ST OAI (W-30)
1973 400084 36 250/264 .400/.400 350 L32, L33, L34
400117 44 258/272 .435/.435 455 AT, Marine, 455 LC
402486 48 262/274 .440/.440 350 ST M15, M20
409691 61 286/287 .474/.472 455 4BC, L77, Marine
1974 409691 61 286/287 .474/.472 455 AG37, 455 W-30, Marine
455 (also #562302)
400117 44 258/272 .435/.435 455 ex W-30, Marine, 455 LC
(Also #562303)
400084 36 250/264 .400/.400 350 (Also #562299)
1975 550638 28 242/250 .396/.400 260
400084 36 250/264 .400/.400 350 (Also #562299)
400117 44 258/272 .435/.435 455 (Also #562303)
409691 61 286/287 .474/.472 455 Marine (Reg.)
402486 48 262/274 .440/.440 350 Marine
409759 68 294/296 .472/.472 455 Marine Hi-perf.
1976 550638 28 242/250 .396/.400 260
400084 36 250/264 .400/.400 350
402194 82 308/308 .474/.474 455 Marine Hi-perf. F.P.
409759 68 294/296 .472/.472 455 Marine Hi-perf.
409691 61 286/287 .474/.472 350 and 455 Reg. Perf. Marine
400117 44 258/272 .435/.435 455 All, Irr., ex Marine
1977 562298 52 256/277 .247/.250 260 (thru 1982)
562299 36 250/264 .400/.400 350, 403 (thru 1980)
562301 68 294/296 .474/.472 403 Hi-perf. Marine thru 79
562302 61 286/287 .472/.472 350, 403 Reg. Perf Marine, ST thru
79
Regards,
Rob M.
USAussie - Downunder
AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
-----Original Message-----
From: gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org
[mailto:gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of Dave Mumert
Sent: Tuesday, February 22, 2011 6:33 AM
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] The correct Olds 455 motor ?
Hi Rob
The OLDs FAQs show part number 400117 for the 455 engine (marine engines
used a different cam)
http://www.442.com/oldsfaq/ofcam.htm#Cams
The GMC parts book list the same number up until 1977 and 1978
Dave
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this one caught my eye.. from 1970
400165 57 285/287 .472/.472 455 67, 4400 AT, Toro W-34
C. Boyd
76 Crestmont
East Tennessee
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| Re: [GMCnet] The correct Olds 455 motor ? [message #116144 is a reply to message #115880] |
Tue, 22 February 2011 19:55 |
Oldrvguybcg
Messages: 100
Registered: September 2008
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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To All -
I wanted to thank everyone for the excellent input on this matter. I have a
buddy that owns a car restoration business that is going to help with any
of the major work. The motor runs well with only a minor exhaust leak
(easily welded). I think the carb needs to be rebuilt or replaced and rebuilt as
a spare. Aside from that the rest of the drivetrain feels good on the
road. I'm going take the suggested road of good maintenance and fine tuning.
Thanks again,
Brian Gleissner
74 Sequoia
Woodbury, CT 06798
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