| Road wander checklist [message #114522] |
Mon, 07 February 2011 22:15  |
Robert
Messages: 40
Registered: November 2009
Location: Jordan Mn.
Karma: 0
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I am trying to compile a checklist for a fellow GMCer with handling problems.
Here's what I came up with so far.
-Check ALL steering components for wear and replace as necessary.
-Replace control arm bushings. Urethane in lowers and rubber in uppers using an offset bushing in the rear of the upper control arm to gain caster.
-Center steering gear.
-Check rear suspension bogie pins for wear. No more than a 1/16" of play.
-Check ride height. 12 7/8" to 13 3/8" to top of slot in front and 11 7/16" to 11 15/16 in rear.
-16" aluminum wheels
-225/75/16 tires with polyester sidewall not steel sidewall. 60 lbs air pressure front and back.
-KYB or Bilstein shocks
-Front alignment specs- As much positive caster (maybe 4 degrees) while maintaining 0 camber and 0 toe.
-Rear alignment specs- 0 camber and 0 toe
What have I missed?
I would love to hear your thoughts or corrections
Thanks
Bob Mahowald
75 Glenbrook
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| Re: [GMCnet] Road wander checklist [message #114529 is a reply to message #114522] |
Tue, 08 February 2011 00:38  |
jimk
Messages: 6734
Registered: July 2006
Location: Belmont, CA
Karma: 9
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Senior Member |
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Bob,
It took us several times to figure out that the ALL Tie Rods need to
be replaced .
Being it is a front wheel drive have caused the frot end parts to be overtaxed.
Also check for knuckle play at the bearing.
The rear height need to be updated along with the front.
Ken Fry suggest that we set the rear by setting the pin to be the same
height as the center of the wheel.
After that then use a proportion to determin the correct front height.
On Mon, Feb 7, 2011 at 8:15 PM, Bob Mahowald
<mahowaldcabinet@frontiernet.net> wrote:
>
>
> I am trying to compile a checklist for a fellow GMCer with handling problems.
> Here's what I came up with so far.
> -Check ALL steering components for wear and replace as necessary.
> -Replace control arm bushings. Urethane in lowers and rubber in uppers using an offset bushing in the rear of the upper control arm to gain caster.
> -Center steering gear.
> -Check rear suspension bogie pins for wear. No more than a 1/16" of play.
> -Check ride height. 12 7/8" to 13 3/8" to top of slot in front and 11 7/16" to 11 15/16 in rear.
> -16" aluminum wheels
> -225/75/16 tires with polyester sidewall not steel sidewall. 60 lbs air pressure front and back.
> -KYB or Bilstein shocks
> -Front alignment specs- As much positive caster (maybe 4 degrees) while maintaining 0 camber and 0 toe.
> -Rear alignment specs- 0 camber and 0 toe
>
> What have I missed?
>
> I would love to hear your thoughts or corrections
>
> Thanks
>
> Bob Mahowald
> 75 Glenbrook
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
--
Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC, Fremont,CA
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
http://www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
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Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
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| Re: Road wander checklist [message #114619 is a reply to message #114522] |
Tue, 08 February 2011 23:26 |
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John Heslinga
Messages: 632
Registered: February 2011
Location: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
Karma: 4
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Senior Member |
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Hi All:
I've been around in the backround for the last few years just listening, learning, and trying my own thing.(My first response to the net today) My Thanks goes to all of you who shared the many things you've done, and the sage advice you pass on. I've used this information very many times. I'm sure looking forward to this complete list when you are finished. Once we finally have spring here in Alberta, I plan to begin a complete suspension overhaul on my 74 Canyonlands 260. I believe I have now collected enough parts to do so.(Including a full set of urathane Bushings for the control arms) Can someone please explain the recomendation that we use rubber bushings on the upper control arm instead of urathane. It would seem to me that rubber is not as firm, consistant, and durable as urathane would be. I can understand the offset bushing to increase the caster. I too like to have a level belt line, leading to another question: Is it possible to get urathane offset bushings?
John and Cathie Heslinga
1974 Canyonlands 260
455, Manny tranny and 1 ton, 3:70 LS,
Red Seal Journeyman, DTE, BEd. MEd.
Edmonton, Alberta
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| Re: [GMCnet] Road wander checklist [message #114621 is a reply to message #114619] |
Wed, 09 February 2011 00:00 |
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USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
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Senior Member |
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John,
The weight of the GMC is carried by the lower control arms; hence they are
much "beefier" than the upper control arms. While you have them out you
should consider re-enforcing them as per Steve Fergusons photos; here's a
link to his photos:
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/showgallery.php?cat=3077
This album shows what you have to do to modify Cadillac Eldorado lower
control arms for use on a GMC. If you compare the photos to your GMC control
arms you will find a lot of the mods were incorporated by GM when the GMC
was manufactured.
The upper control arms are used to locate the upper ball joint in relation
to the lower ball joint. They can be adjusted to set the caster and camber
of the steering; they don't carry any of the GMC's weight.
You are correct rubber is not as "firm, consistant, and durable as
urethane."
You cannot buy offset upper control arm bushings for the GMC.
Each and every GMC seems to be different, some can get heaps of caster with
standard bushings, some (such as Double Trouble) could only get 1.9 degrees
with offset bushing in the rear legs of the upper control arms.
Coaches manufactured after late 1975 seem to be able to get more caster than
coaches manufactured in 1973, 1974; and early 1975 (not sure about those
years).
Installing offset rubber bushings in the upper control arms will do no harm
as compared to centered upper control arms.
Some people say that installing urethane bushings in the lower control arms
will transmit more road noise to the GMC than rubber bushings. I have not
found the levels of road noise in the cockpit of Double Trouble high and it
has with Urethane lower bushings.
Regards,
Rob M.
USAussie - Downunder
AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
-----Original Message-----
From: gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org
[mailto:gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of John Heslinga
Sent: Wednesday, February 09, 2011 4:26 PM
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Road wander checklist
Hi All:
I've been around in the backround for the last few years just listening,
learning, and trying my own thing.(My first response to the net today) My
Thanks goes to all of you who shared the many things you've done, and the
sage advice you pass on. I've used this information very many times. I'm
sure looking forward to this complete list when you are finished. Once we
finally have spring here in Alberta, I plan to begin a complete suspension
overhaul on my 74 Canyonlands 260. I believe I have now collected enough
parts to do so.(Including a full set of urathane Bushings for the control
arms) Can someone please explain the recomendation that we use rubber
bushings on the upper control arm instead of urathane. It would seem to me
that rubber is not as firm, consistant, and durable as urathane would be. I
can understand the offset bushing to increase the caster. I too like to have
a level belt line, leading to another question: Is it possible to get
urathane offset bushings
?
--
John Heslinga
1974 Canyonlands 260
Retirement Projects Galore
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Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
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Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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| Re: [GMCnet] Road wander checklist [message #114622 is a reply to message #114619] |
Wed, 09 February 2011 00:21 |
jimk
Messages: 6734
Registered: July 2006
Location: Belmont, CA
Karma: 9
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Senior Member |
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John,
If you have used urethane on cars, you'll have not want to use it.
You can use it on the lower as the load on it is high enough so you'll
not notice it.
The upper arm is not really a load bearing member, so the urethane is
too stiff.Also the off set is a problem for the manufacture to prevent
it from spinning on the arm.
On Tue, Feb 8, 2011 at 9:26 PM, John Heslinga <rbeeper@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> Hi All:
> I've been around in the backround for the last few years just listening, learning, and trying my own thing.(My first response to the net today) My Thanks goes to all of you who shared the many things you've done, and the sage advice you pass on. I've used this information very many times. I'm sure looking forward to this complete list when you are finished. Once we finally have spring here in Alberta, I plan to begin a complete suspension overhaul on my 74 Canyonlands 260. I believe I have now collected enough parts to do so.(Including a full set of urathane Bushings for the control arms) Can someone please explain the recomendation that we use rubber bushings on the upper control arm instead of urathane. It would seem to me that rubber is not as firm, consistant, and durable as urathane would be. I can understand the offset bushing to increase the caster. I too like to have a level belt line, leading to another question: Is it possible to get urathane offset bushings
> ?
> --
> John Heslinga
> 1974 Canyonlands 260
> Retirement Projects Galore
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
--
Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC, Fremont,CA
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
http://www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
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| Re: Road wander checklist [message #114634 is a reply to message #114619] |
Wed, 09 February 2011 04:18 |
Ken Burton
Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana
Karma: 10
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Senior Member |
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I have urethane bushings in both the upper and lower control arms. I'm happy with them. I see no reason not to use urethane bushings in both the upper and lowers.
The said I also see no reason not to use rubber in the uppers. The biggest reason to use rubber in the uppers is you can buy offset bushings in rubber that are not available in Urethane.
When I replaced mine only the lowers were sagged and worn. So urethane in the uppers were probably not unnecessary.
I also have been told that urethane upper bushings are no longer available.
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
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| Re: [GMCnet] Road wander checklist [message #114706 is a reply to message #114634] |
Wed, 09 February 2011 19:21 |
jimk
Messages: 6734
Registered: July 2006
Location: Belmont, CA
Karma: 9
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Senior Member |
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I can still get the upper Urathane if you want them.
On Wed, Feb 9, 2011 at 2:18 AM, Ken Burton <n9cv@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>
> I have urethane bushings in both the upper and lower control arms. I'm happy with them. I see no reason not to use urethane bushings in both the upper and lowers.
>
> The said I also see no reason not to use rubber in the uppers. The biggest reason to use rubber in the uppers is you can buy offset bushings in rubber that are not available in Urethane.
>
> When I replaced mine only the lowers were sagged and worn. So urethane in the uppers were probably not unnecessary.
>
> I also have been told that urethane upper bushings are no longer available.
> --
> Ken Burton - N9KB
> 76 Palm Beach
> Hebron, Indiana
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
--
Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC, Fremont,CA
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
http://www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
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| Re: Road wander checklist [message #115083 is a reply to message #114522] |
Tue, 15 February 2011 10:57 |
Robert
Messages: 40
Registered: November 2009
Location: Jordan Mn.
Karma: 0
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Member |
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John,
It might be in your best interest to talk to Dave Lenzi about your front end rebuild. He supplies many front end parts and is very knowledgable from what I understand. I did know of him when I did mine.
His number is 810-653-3902
Bob Mahowald
75 Glenbrook
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