Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » [GMCnet] power converter
| [GMCnet] power converter [message #112188] |
Sun, 16 January 2011 22:09  |
john arbuckle
Messages: 122
Registered: March 2010
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Sorry last e-mail was sent off unfinished. What PD would be sufficient
to run the GMC, how many amps would I need? Thanks everybody all this
help will go to good use I promise.
Thank you
John Arbuckle
1976 Palm Beach
Tucson AZ.
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| Re: [GMCnet] power converter [message #112193 is a reply to message #112188] |
Sun, 16 January 2011 22:52  |
Richard Denney
Messages: 920
Registered: April 2010
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On Sun, Jan 16, 2011 at 11:09 PM, john arbuckle <jarbuckle1209@gmail.com>wrote:
> Sorry last e-mail was sent off unfinished. What PD would be sufficient
> to run the GMC, how many amps would I need? Thanks everybody all this
> help will go to good use I promise.
>
>
It depends on the size of your battery bank. The coaches were supplied with
a single house battery from the factory, and a 40-amp converter/charger is
more than enough to charge it at its maximum rate. The best house batteries
can accept a charge at about a 25-amp rate, as I recall, and some are less.
It also depends on how many loads you will run at the same time. The 12-volt
heating element in the refer is probably as demanding as anything that was
designed to run on 12 volts, and it draws about 5 amps as I recall. Lamps
are an amp or two each (for incandescent bulbs). A 40-amp converter/charger
can charge the battery at its full rate and run all the usual 12-volt items
in the coach pretty well.
An inverter is no added load for a converter. If you have 120VAC available
for the converter (either from shore power or the generator), you can run
120VAC loads directly from that source and not through an inverter.
Inverters are used when there is no 120VAC available.
If you have two good house batteries, a 55 or 60-amp converter/charger might
be able to charge them fully and still run most 12-volt items in the house.
Thus, most folks with the single house battery (including me) have used
40-amp converter/chargers, while those who have two house batteries have
tended to the 60-amp models. A 40-amp model will work fine with two
batteries, but it might not be able to charge both at their full rate. (If
you have a combiner, the converter/charger will also charge the engine
battery, but this battery is very rarely in need of charging beyond just a
quick top-off, which is usually handled by the alternator when the engine is
running. I wouldn't consider that a second battery when sizing the
converter.)
Rick "who doubts his converter has ever delivered its full rated 40 amps"
Denney
--
'73 230 "Jaws"
Northern Virginia
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| Re: [GMCnet] power converter [message #112197 is a reply to message #112193] |
Sun, 16 January 2011 23:27 |
 |
USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
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G'day,
Avions have three house batteries; two six volt batteries down the back and
one twelve volt up next to the starting battery.
However, I chose the PD-9260 because of the dimensions; it is lower and
wider than the PD-9240. I installed it on top of the driver side wheel well
under a shelf under the sink. It is pretty well protected from water there.
I figger'd that if Avion thought it was OK to install the circuit breaker
panel there I would follow suit with the converter. So far so good, no water
leaks and no overheating problems.
Next time I'm back in the USA I'll take some pictures and post them.
Regards,
Rob M.
USAussie - Downunder
AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
-----Original Message-----
From: gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org
[mailto:gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of Richard Denney
Sent: Monday, January 17, 2011 3:53 PM
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] power converter
It depends on the size of your battery bank. The coaches were supplied with
a single house battery from the factory, and a 40-amp converter/charger is
more than enough to charge it at its maximum rate. The best house batteries
can accept a charge at about a 25-amp rate, as I recall, and some are less.
It also depends on how many loads you will run at the same time. The 12-volt
heating element in the refer is probably as demanding as anything that was
designed to run on 12 volts, and it draws about 5 amps as I recall. Lamps
are an amp or two each (for incandescent bulbs). A 40-amp converter/charger
can charge the battery at its full rate and run all the usual 12-volt items
in the coach pretty well.
An inverter is no added load for a converter. If you have 120VAC available
for the converter (either from shore power or the generator), you can run
120VAC loads directly from that source and not through an inverter.
Inverters are used when there is no 120VAC available.
If you have two good house batteries, a 55 or 60-amp converter/charger might
be able to charge them fully and still run most 12-volt items in the house.
Thus, most folks with the single house battery (including me) have used
40-amp converter/chargers, while those who have two house batteries have
tended to the 60-amp models. A 40-amp model will work fine with two
batteries, but it might not be able to charge both at their full rate. (If
you have a combiner, the converter/charger will also charge the engine
battery, but this battery is very rarely in need of charging beyond just a
quick top-off, which is usually handled by the alternator when the engine is
running. I wouldn't consider that a second battery when sizing the
converter.)
Rick "who doubts his converter has ever delivered its full rated 40 amps"
Denney
--
'73 230 "Jaws"
Northern Virginia
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Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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| Re: [GMCnet] power converter [message #112201 is a reply to message #112188] |
Mon, 17 January 2011 00:51 |
Ken Burton
Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana
Karma: 10
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Senior Member |
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I got the PD 9245 many years ago. There was nothing wrong with the buzz box so I left it installed in case I ever needed additional DC power. I have never turned on the buzz box since installing the PD unit. I have two golf cart batteries for the house system and I would not want to charge them at anything higher than about 30 amps. Deep cycle batteries do not charge as fast at as high current as starting batteries. This combination is still going strong and the batteries will be 10 years old in April.
40 to 45 amps is enough in my opinion for a GMC.
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
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| Re: [GMCnet] power converter [message #112224 is a reply to message #112188] |
Mon, 17 January 2011 10:55 |
idrob
Messages: 645
Registered: January 2005
Location: Central Idaho
Karma: 0
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| john arbuckle wrote on Sun, 16 January 2011 20:09 |
Sorry last e-mail was sent off unfinished. What PD would be sufficient
to run the GMC, how many amps would I need? Thanks everybody all this
help will go to good use I promise.
Thank you
John Arbuckle
1976 Palm Beach
Tucson AZ.
|
When I had my GMC, I replaced the buzz box with a PD 9160 (60 amp) converter/charger. The original 12/120 volt refrigerator puts a fair load on the golf cart batteries. One morning after an overnight dry camping load I started the Onan and measured the charge current from the PD into the deep cycle batteries. It was 56 amps to start but within 15 minutes had dropped to under 40 amps, which was all the batteries could take apparently, after the initial high rate.
I think the 40 or 45 amp PD is large enough, with the 60 being slightly better but not necessary. The cost is not too different, but sometimes you can get a 45 amp one on a better sale.
BTW, I repeated that test another time, only this time I started the engine and used the alternator to charge. The results were similar, somewhere between 55 and 60 amps initial charge into the house batteries, tapering to under 40 amps within a few minutes. That seems to be about the maximum rate two deep cycle golf cart batteries want to take.
Rob Allen
former owner of '76 x-PB
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| Re: [GMCnet] power converter [message #112226 is a reply to message #112224] |
Mon, 17 January 2011 11:17 |
Carl S.
Messages: 4186
Registered: January 2009
Location: Tucson, AZ.
Karma: 13
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Senior Member |
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[/quote]
When I had my GMC, I replaced the buzz box with a PD 9160 (60 amp) converter/charger. The original 12/120 volt refrigerator puts a fair load on the golf cart batteries. One morning after an overnight dry camping load I started the Onan and measured the charge current from the PD into the deep cycle batteries. It was 56 amps to start but within 15 minutes had dropped to under 40 amps, which was all the batteries could take apparently, after the initial high rate.
[/quote]
Rob,
I have a question about the above: I have the same set-up as you did in your coach ie original electric fridge, two golf cart batteries, etc. I have a PD9245 converter/charger. I am about to head off to Quartzsite for the second time and, although I have dry camped several times for 2 - 3 days at a time, I have never really gotten a good feeling for how long it takes to re-charge the batteries after running off of them for 8 - 12 hours. Do you have any idea how long you had to run your generator to bring the batteries up to nearly full charge? Also, did you manually switch your 'charge wizard' to boost mode, or did it do that automatically?
You would think I would have all this worked out by now having owned the coach for over two and a half years and having put over 8,000 miles on it during that time, but I seem to be a little 'electrically challenged', at least when it comes to batteries and charge rates.
Carl Stouffer
'75 ex Palm Beach
Tucson, AZ.
Chuck Aulgur Reaction Arm Disc Brakes, Quadrabags, 3.70 LSD final drive, Lenzi knuckles/hubs, Dodge Truck 16" X 8" front wheels, Rear American Eagles, Solar battery charging. GMCSJ and GMCMI member
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| Re: [GMCnet] power converter [message #112245 is a reply to message #112193] |
Mon, 17 January 2011 14:36 |
john arbuckle
Messages: 122
Registered: March 2010
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Thanks for all the info. So the original buzz box is a charger and
converter? What is the need for an inverter? I am a little handicap
when it comes to all of this. Thanks again for all the info.
John Arbuckle
1976 Palm Beach
Tucson AZ.
On Sun, Jan 16, 2011 at 8:52 PM, Richard Denney <rwdenney@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Sun, Jan 16, 2011 at 11:09 PM, john arbuckle <jarbuckle1209@gmail.com>wrote:
>
>> Sorry last e-mail was sent off unfinished. What PD would be sufficient
>> to run the GMC, how many amps would I need? Thanks everybody all this
>> help will go to good use I promise.
>>
>>
> It depends on the size of your battery bank. The coaches were supplied with
> a single house battery from the factory, and a 40-amp converter/charger is
> more than enough to charge it at its maximum rate. The best house batteries
> can accept a charge at about a 25-amp rate, as I recall, and some are less.
>
> It also depends on how many loads you will run at the same time. The 12-volt
> heating element in the refer is probably as demanding as anything that was
> designed to run on 12 volts, and it draws about 5 amps as I recall. Lamps
> are an amp or two each (for incandescent bulbs). A 40-amp converter/charger
> can charge the battery at its full rate and run all the usual 12-volt items
> in the coach pretty well.
>
> An inverter is no added load for a converter. If you have 120VAC available
> for the converter (either from shore power or the generator), you can run
> 120VAC loads directly from that source and not through an inverter.
> Inverters are used when there is no 120VAC available.
>
> If you have two good house batteries, a 55 or 60-amp converter/charger might
> be able to charge them fully and still run most 12-volt items in the house.
>
> Thus, most folks with the single house battery (including me) have used
> 40-amp converter/chargers, while those who have two house batteries have
> tended to the 60-amp models. A 40-amp model will work fine with two
> batteries, but it might not be able to charge both at their full rate. (If
> you have a combiner, the converter/charger will also charge the engine
> battery, but this battery is very rarely in need of charging beyond just a
> quick top-off, which is usually handled by the alternator when the engine is
> running. I wouldn't consider that a second battery when sizing the
> converter.)
>
> Rick "who doubts his converter has ever delivered its full rated 40 amps"
> Denney
>
> --
> '73 230 "Jaws"
> Northern Virginia
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> List Information and Subscription Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
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| Re: [GMCnet] power converter [message #112247 is a reply to message #112245] |
Mon, 17 January 2011 14:40 |
k2gkk
Messages: 4452
Registered: November 2009
Karma: -8
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Senior Member |
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An inverter takes the nominal 13.2 V DC in your coach
and makes 120 V AC out of it to run household stuff.
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
~~ ~ D C "Mac" Macdonald ~ ~~
~ ~ Amateur Radio - K2GKK ~ ~
~ ~ USAF and FAA, Retired ~ ~
~ ~ ~ Oklahoma City, OK ~ ~ ~
~~ ~ ~ "The Money Pit" ~ ~ ~~
~ ~ ~ ex-Palm Beach, 76 ~ ~ ~
~ www.gmcmhphotos.com/okclb ~
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
> Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2011 12:36:19 -0800
> From: jarbuckle1209@gmail.com
> To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
> Subject: Re: [GMCnet] power converter
>
> Thanks for all the info. So the original buzz box is a charger and
> converter? What is the need for an inverter? I am a little handicap
> when it comes to all of this. Thanks again for all the info.
>
> John Arbuckle
> 1976 Palm Beach
> Tucson AZ.
>
> On Sun, Jan 16, 2011 at 8:52 PM, Richard Denney <rwdenney@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On Sun, Jan 16, 2011 at 11:09 PM, john arbuckle <jarbuckle1209@gmail.com>wrote:
> >
> >> Sorry last e-mail was sent off unfinished. What PD would be sufficient
> >> to run the GMC, how many amps would I need? Thanks everybody all this
> >> help will go to good use I promise.
> >>
> >>
> > It depends on the size of your battery bank. The coaches were supplied with
> > a single house battery from the factory, and a 40-amp converter/charger is
> > more than enough to charge it at its maximum rate. The best house batteries
> > can accept a charge at about a 25-amp rate, as I recall, and some are less.
> >
> > It also depends on how many loads you will run at the same time. The 12-volt
> > heating element in the refer is probably as demanding as anything that was
> > designed to run on 12 volts, and it draws about 5 amps as I recall. Lamps
> > are an amp or two each (for incandescent bulbs). A 40-amp converter/charger
> > can charge the battery at its full rate and run all the usual 12-volt items
> > in the coach pretty well.
> >
> > An inverter is no added load for a converter. If you have 120VAC available
> > for the converter (either from shore power or the generator), you can run
> > 120VAC loads directly from that source and not through an inverter.
> > Inverters are used when there is no 120VAC available.
> >
> > If you have two good house batteries, a 55 or 60-amp converter/charger might
> > be able to charge them fully and still run most 12-volt items in the house.
> >
> > Thus, most folks with the single house battery (including me) have used
> > 40-amp converter/chargers, while those who have two house batteries have
> > tended to the 60-amp models. A 40-amp model will work fine with two
> > batteries, but it might not be able to charge both at their full rate. (If
> > you have a combiner, the converter/charger will also charge the engine
> > battery, but this battery is very rarely in need of charging beyond just a
> > quick top-off, which is usually handled by the alternator when the engine is
> > running. I wouldn't consider that a second battery when sizing the
> > converter.)
> >
> > Rick "who doubts his converter has ever delivered its full rated 40 amps"
> > Denney
> >
> > --
> > '73 230 "Jaws"
> > Northern Virginia
> > _______________________________________________
> > GMCnet mailing list
> > List Information and Subscription Options:
> > http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
> >
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> List Information and Subscription Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
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List Information and Subscription Options:
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| Re: [GMCnet] power converter [message #112255 is a reply to message #112243] |
Mon, 17 January 2011 16:57 |
Carl S.
Messages: 4186
Registered: January 2009
Location: Tucson, AZ.
Karma: 13
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Senior Member |
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| WD0AFQ wrote on Mon, 17 January 2011 13:39 |
Carl, we all realize that you are a bit slow.  dan
|
Thanks for letting the cat out of the bag, Dan
Carl Stouffer
'75 ex Palm Beach
Tucson, AZ.
Chuck Aulgur Reaction Arm Disc Brakes, Quadrabags, 3.70 LSD final drive, Lenzi knuckles/hubs, Dodge Truck 16" X 8" front wheels, Rear American Eagles, Solar battery charging. GMCSJ and GMCMI member
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| Re: [GMCnet] power converter [message #112286 is a reply to message #112261] |
Mon, 17 January 2011 21:02 |
Carl S.
Messages: 4186
Registered: January 2009
Location: Tucson, AZ.
Karma: 13
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Senior Member |
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Uuuh, thanks? again Dan.  Now ALL my secrets are out!
To the PS, I'm pushing it taking next week off work, but I wish I could be there now.
Carl Stouffer
'75 ex Palm Beach
Tucson, AZ.
Chuck Aulgur Reaction Arm Disc Brakes, Quadrabags, 3.70 LSD final drive, Lenzi knuckles/hubs, Dodge Truck 16" X 8" front wheels, Rear American Eagles, Solar battery charging. GMCSJ and GMCMI member
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| Re: [GMCnet] power converter [message #112332 is a reply to message #112226] |
Tue, 18 January 2011 10:38 |
idrob
Messages: 645
Registered: January 2005
Location: Central Idaho
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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| Carl S. wrote on Mon, 17 January 2011 09:17 |
|
When I had my GMC, I replaced the buzz box with a PD 9160 (60 amp) converter/charger. The original 12/120 volt refrigerator puts a fair load on the golf cart batteries. One morning after an overnight dry camping load I started the Onan and measured the charge current from the PD into the deep cycle batteries. It was 56 amps to start but within 15 minutes had dropped to under 40 amps, which was all the batteries could take apparently, after the initial high rate.
[/quote]
Rob,
I have a question about the above: I have the same set-up as you did in your coach ie original electric fridge, two golf cart batteries, etc. I have a PD9245 converter/charger. I am about to head off to Quartzsite for the second time and, although I have dry camped several times for 2 - 3 days at a time, I have never really gotten a good feeling for how long it takes to re-charge the batteries after running off of them for 8 - 12 hours. Do you have any idea how long you had to run your generator to bring the batteries up to nearly full charge? Also, did you manually switch your 'charge wizard' to boost mode, or did it do that automatically?
You would think I would have all this worked out by now having owned the coach for over two and a half years and having put over 8,000 miles on it during that time, but I seem to be a little 'electrically challenged', at least when it comes to batteries and charge rates. [/quote]
Carl: This is a difficult question to answer easily. Short answer is amp hours in to charge the batteries + 20% will equal amp hours out that you used since the last full charge of the batteries. The 20% is for the charging inefficiencies that are always there. Now, due to the fact that the last aprox 15% of a battery charge can only be done very slowly, to reach true full charge might take 24 or more hours, with the PD and charge wizzard.
Compounding the issue is the rate of "bulk" charge that the batteries will accept. As I noted in my original post, when first connected my PD xx60 would put 56 amps into the batteries, but within 15 minutes, it would drop to 40 amps or less, and then as I recall, it would taper down to about 25 amps as the batteries came up in charge level.
Best guess: Lets say you had drawn 100 amp hours from your batteries. (average of 10 amps for 10 hours). That means you would need to put 120 amp hours back in. (the 20% additional). If your batteries would accept, from the PD converter/charger 30 amps on average you would be looking at 4 hours to replace the 120 amp hours.
Battery charging is somewhat of a "black art" with a whole lot of variables including age of the batteries, wire capacity, temperature, and so on. If you are going to be out for a couple of days only, run the generator a couple of times a day for half hour to an hour to make hot water, coffee and so on. That will dump some power into the batteries. Recharge fully when you get home by leaving the rig plugged in for a couple of days. Don't worry, be happy.
If you are going to be out dry camping very often, for longer periods, make an investment into a solar system. That will give you a real boost of power over an all day time.
Oh, let the charge wizzard do the work automatically. It is smarter than we are.
Rob Allen
former owner of '76 x-PB
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| Re: [GMCnet] power converter [message #112351 is a reply to message #112332] |
Tue, 18 January 2011 14:52 |
Carl S.
Messages: 4186
Registered: January 2009
Location: Tucson, AZ.
Karma: 13
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Senior Member |
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[/quote]
Carl: This is a difficult question to answer easily. Short answer is amp hours in to charge the batteries + 20% will equal amp hours out that you used since the last full charge of the batteries. The 20% is for the charging inefficiencies that are always there. Now, due to the fact that the last aprox 15% of a battery charge can only be done very slowly, to reach true full charge might take 24 or more hours, with the PD and charge wizzard.
Compounding the issue is the rate of "bulk" charge that the batteries will accept. As I noted in my original post, when first connected my PD xx60 would put 56 amps into the batteries, but within 15 minutes, it would drop to 40 amps or less, and then as I recall, it would taper down to about 25 amps as the batteries came up in charge level.
Best guess: Lets say you had drawn 100 amp hours from your batteries. (average of 10 amps for 10 hours). That means you would need to put 120 amp hours back in. (the 20% additional). If your batteries would accept, from the PD converter/charger 30 amps on average you would be looking at 4 hours to replace the 120 amp hours.
Battery charging is somewhat of a "black art" with a whole lot of variables including age of the batteries, wire capacity, temperature, and so on. If you are going to be out for a couple of days only, run the generator a couple of times a day for half hour to an hour to make hot water, coffee and so on. That will dump some power into the batteries. Recharge fully when you get home by leaving the rig plugged in for a couple of days. Don't worry, be happy.
If you are going to be out dry camping very often, for longer periods, make an investment into a solar system. That will give you a real boost of power over an all day time.
Oh, let the charge wizzard do the work automatically. It is smarter than we are.
[/quote]
Thanks for the info Rob. I guess I need to invest in a TriMetric battery monitor like Dan has. For now I guess I'll just do as you say and also double check it with a volt meter a couple of times per day to make sure it stays above 12.3 volts. I will be bringing my Honeywell 2-K inverter generator along to run the battery charger and fridge, from time to time, at a more economical rate than the Onan.
Carl Stouffer
'75 ex Palm Beach
Tucson, AZ.
Chuck Aulgur Reaction Arm Disc Brakes, Quadrabags, 3.70 LSD final drive, Lenzi knuckles/hubs, Dodge Truck 16" X 8" front wheels, Rear American Eagles, Solar battery charging. GMCSJ and GMCMI member
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| Re: [GMCnet] power converter [message #112378 is a reply to message #112351] |
Tue, 18 January 2011 22:28 |
john arbuckle
Messages: 122
Registered: March 2010
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Carl,
John Arbuckle here, So you have the 60 amp PD converter? Is that in
your opinion the way to go with these rigs? Would it be wise to invest
in an inverter? Just thinking about redoing the electrical cabinet
with a PD converter with charge wizard of course and a new fuse box.
Just trying to get ideas from different people. How is it going I
think I met you out in Bisbee if I am not mistaken my wife and I came
down for the rally. Still workin on the beast, it is a slow process.
Thanks for any input.
John Arbuckle
1976 Palm Beach
Tucson AZ
On Tue, Jan 18, 2011 at 12:52 PM, Carl Stouffer <carljr3b@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> [/quote]
>
> Carl: This is a difficult question to answer easily. Short answer is amp hours in to charge the batteries + 20% will equal amp hours out that you used since the last full charge of the batteries. The 20% is for the charging inefficiencies that are always there. Now, due to the fact that the last aprox 15% of a battery charge can only be done very slowly, to reach true full charge might take 24 or more hours, with the PD and charge wizzard.
>
> Compounding the issue is the rate of "bulk" charge that the batteries will accept. As I noted in my original post, when first connected my PD xx60 would put 56 amps into the batteries, but within 15 minutes, it would drop to 40 amps or less, and then as I recall, it would taper down to about 25 amps as the batteries came up in charge level.
>
> Best guess: Lets say you had drawn 100 amp hours from your batteries. (average of 10 amps for 10 hours). That means you would need to put 120 amp hours back in. (the 20% additional). If your batteries would accept, from the PD converter/charger 30 amps on average you would be looking at 4 hours to replace the 120 amp hours.
>
> Battery charging is somewhat of a "black art" with a whole lot of variables including age of the batteries, wire capacity, temperature, and so on. If you are going to be out for a couple of days only, run the generator a couple of times a day for half hour to an hour to make hot water, coffee and so on. That will dump some power into the batteries. Recharge fully when you get home by leaving the rig plugged in for a couple of days. Don't worry, be happy.
>
> If you are going to be out dry camping very often, for longer periods, make an investment into a solar system. That will give you a real boost of power over an all day time.
>
> Oh, let the charge wizzard do the work automatically. It is smarter than we are.
> [/quote]
>
> Thanks for the info Rob. I guess I need to invest in a TriMetric battery monitor like Dan has. For now I guess I'll just do as you say and also double check it with a volt meter a couple of times per day to make sure it stays above 12.3 volts. I will be bringing my Honeywell 2-K inverter generator along to run the battery charger and fridge, from time to time, at a more economical rate than the Onan.
> --
> Carl S.
> '75 ex Palm Beach
> Tucson, AZ.
> _______________________________________________
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| Re: [GMCnet] power converter [message #112389 is a reply to message #112378] |
Wed, 19 January 2011 07:20 |
 |
Matt Colie
Messages: 8547
Registered: March 2007
Location: S.E. Michigan
Karma: 7
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Senior Member |
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| john arbuckle wrote on Tue, 18 January 2011 23:28 |
Carl,
John Arbuckle here, <format modified for clarity>
So you have the 60 amp PD converter?
Is that in your opinion the way to go with these rigs?
Would it be wise to invest in an inverter?
Just thinking about redoing the electrical cabinet with a PD converter with charge wizard of course and a new fuse box.
Just trying to get ideas from different people. How is it going I
think I met you out in Bisbee if I am not mistaken my wife and I came down for the rally. Still workin on the beast, it is a slow process.
Thanks for any input.
John Arbuckle
|
John,
Increasing the converter/charger capacity can not hurt anything but the project cost and may have some return. If you have more than a pair of GC2s for a house bank, it might be worth your while, but that is a slim bet.
But be aware that the capacity may be limited by the existing coach wiring. 40Amp is really too much for a #10 that runs any distance and 60 will require #8 wire and maybe #6. Voltage drop in 12V systems can be a real joy-buster.
Do not buy an inverter until you are sure what you are going to do with it. If you buy too much capacity, the idle current becomes an issue. If you buy to little - Well - the soke may leak out. If you buy modified square wave (these are not a modified sine - I don't care what they call it) and you really needed a pure sine, you are stuck again.
Matt
Matt & Mary Colie - Chaumière -'73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan with OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Near DTW - Twixt A2 and Detroit
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| Re: [GMCnet] power converter [message #112395 is a reply to message #112378] |
Wed, 19 January 2011 09:20 |
Carl S.
Messages: 4186
Registered: January 2009
Location: Tucson, AZ.
Karma: 13
|
Senior Member |
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| john arbuckle wrote on Tue, 18 January 2011 21:28 |
Carl,
John Arbuckle here, So you have the 60 amp PD converter? Is that in
your opinion the way to go with these rigs? Would it be wise to invest
in an inverter? Just thinking about redoing the electrical cabinet
with a PD converter with charge wizard of course and a new fuse box.
Just trying to get ideas from different people. How is it going I
think I met you out in Bisbee if I am not mistaken my wife and I came
down for the rally. Still workin on the beast, it is a slow process.
Thanks for any input.
John Arbuckle
1976 Palm Beach
Tucson AZ
On Tue, Jan 18, 2011 at 12:52 PM, Carl Stouffer <carljr3b@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
|
>
> Carl: This is a difficult question to answer easily. Short answer is amp hours in to charge the batteries + 20% will equal amp hours out that you used since the last full charge of the batteries. The 20% is for the charging inefficiencies that are always there. Now, due to the fact that the last aprox 15% of a battery charge can only be done very slowly, to reach true full charge might take 24 or more hours, with the PD and charge wizzard.
>
> Compounding the issue is the rate of "bulk" charge that the batteries will accept. As I noted in my original post, when first connected my PD xx60 would put 56 amps into the batteries, but within 15 minutes, it would drop to 40 amps or less, and then as I recall, it would taper down to about 25 amps as the batteries came up in charge level.
>
> Best guess: Lets say you had drawn 100 amp hours from your batteries. (average of 10 amps for 10 hours). That means you would need to put 120 amp hours back in. (the 20% additional). If your batteries would accept, from the PD converter/charger 30 amps on average you would be looking at 4 hours to replace the 120 amp hours.
>
> Battery charging is somewhat of a "black art" with a whole lot of variables including age of the batteries, wire capacity, temperature, and so on. If you are going to be out for a couple of days only, run the generator a couple of times a day for half hour to an hour to make hot water, coffee and so on. That will dump some power into the batteries. Recharge fully when you get home by leaving the rig plugged in for a couple of days. Don't worry, be happy.
>
> If you are going to be out dry camping very often, for longer periods, make an investment into a solar system. That will give you a real boost of power over an all day time.
>
> Oh, let the charge wizzard do the work automatically. It is smarter than we are.
> [/quote]
>
> Thanks for the info Rob. I guess I need to invest in a TriMetric battery monitor like Dan has. For now I guess I'll just do as you say and also double check it with a volt meter a couple of times per day to make sure it stays above 12.3 volts. I will be bringing my Honeywell 2-K inverter generator along to run the battery charger and fridge, from time to time, at a more economical rate than the Onan.
> --
> Carl S.
> '75 ex Palm Beach
> Tucson, AZ.
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> List Information and Subscription Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
List Information and Subscription Options:
http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
[/quote]
John,
Yes we did meet at last year's Bisbee rally. I'm looking forward to coming across you again in the future at another rally. If you need any help in person, call me and I can probably arrange a time to come and see what you may be up against.
I have a PD9245, which is a 45 amp converter/charger. That is what Jim Bounds recommended when I asked him what to get. It has served me well. I have two six volt golf cart batteries for house batteries and the 45 amp is adequate for those. Some people have advocated the use of a PD9260 (60 amp) in order to charge the batteries more quickly, but the wire size and the batteries will limit it's ability to do so somewhat.
We went without an inverter for over two years and it was only a minor inconvenience. We had to be plugged in to shore power, or run a generator to watch TV or charge a laptop. I installed a small (750 watt) Harbor Freight inverter just to run small things. I will still have to fire up the Onan to run the microwave or the toaster oven, but unless I increase the size of my battery bank, I would be hard pressed to run those appliances off an inverter anyway. I can always make changes later if my needs change (add a larger inverter and more batteries, plus a solar charger, like Dan G. has). Matt's advice in another post is good. Use the coach for a while and determine your needs, then choose an inverter.
Carl Stouffer
'75 ex Palm Beach
Tucson, AZ.
Chuck Aulgur Reaction Arm Disc Brakes, Quadrabags, 3.70 LSD final drive, Lenzi knuckles/hubs, Dodge Truck 16" X 8" front wheels, Rear American Eagles, Solar battery charging. GMCSJ and GMCMI member
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