Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » Duramax?
| Duramax? [message #110811] |
Tue, 04 January 2011 18:03  |
GeorgeRud
Messages: 1380
Registered: February 2007
Location: Chicago, IL
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I have been following Jim Bound's tales of the Duramax projects, and I'm sure he's happy they're starting to come to the finish line. In reading about the power and potential fuel mileage of these diesels, I do wonder if converting a GMC to Duramax power is a reasonable project. I understand that Dave Lenzi has done one, and was wondering if anyone else has also had any experience with such a project? It certainly sounds like Dave's was not a simple bolt-in project, but perhaps if more are done, the parts and programming that are necessary will become available????????????????
As we have to deal with more fuel problems and increasing fuel prices, these conversions could become a popular upgrade.
George Rudawsky
Chicago, IL
75 Palm Beach
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| Re: [GMCnet] Duramax? [message #110817 is a reply to message #110811] |
Tue, 04 January 2011 18:26  |
mjbourgon
Messages: 259
Registered: May 2010
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Happy new year all from Sunny Santa Teresa, New Mexico
I have been reading all the letters about diesels and other interesting
engine swaps. From a cost stand point do these changes make any sence or
are we just trying to re invent the wheel. I don't think this type of
conversion could ever be amortised and the cost savings would take a heck of
a long time to re cover. I spoke with one fellow who bought one of the
chrysler conversions using a mercedes diesel. The cost was over a hundred
thousand although he does get over 20 miles a gallon. Numbers just don't
make sence to me
Just a thought
Marcel 28' stretch
----- Original Message -----
From: "George Rudawsky" <GeorgeRud@aol.com>
To: <gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org>
Sent: Tuesday, January 04, 2011 16:03
Subject: [GMCnet] Duramax?
>
>
> I have been following Jim Bound's tales of the Duramax projects, and I'm
> sure he's happy they're starting to come to the finish line. In reading
> about the power and potential fuel mileage of these diesels, I do wonder
> if converting a GMC to Duramax power is a reasonable project. I
> understand that Dave Lenzi has done one, and was wondering if anyone else
> has also had any experience with such a project? It certainly sounds like
> Dave's was not a simple bolt-in project, but perhaps if more are done, the
> parts and programming that are necessary will become
> available????????????????
>
> As we have to deal with more fuel problems and increasing fuel prices,
> these conversions could become a popular upgrade.
> --
> George Rudawsky
> Chicago, IL
> 75 Palm Beach
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> List Information and Subscription Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
List Information and Subscription Options:
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| Re: [GMCnet] Duramax? [message #110818 is a reply to message #110817] |
Tue, 04 January 2011 18:42 |
Chr$
Messages: 2690
Registered: January 2004
Location: Scottsdale, AZ
Karma: 1
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Senior Member |
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Converted Chrysler "what?"
They did put MB diesels in EU market Chrysler 300's, and some Jeep Grand Cherokees here have them too...
My 2 cents is that it is not worth the cost of the engine swap, engineering, fabricating, and higher per gallon fuel cost, not to mention the extra NVH (Noise, Vibration, Harshness) just under your butt while driving.
As a hobby sure. to save $$$ on future fuel? no. For more power? I'd go to a more modern Gas V8 like an 8.1 before a diesel...
| mjbourgon wrote on Tue, 04 January 2011 17:26 |
Happy new year all from Sunny Santa Teresa, New Mexico
I have been reading all the letters about diesels and other interesting
engine swaps. From a cost stand point do these changes make any sence or
are we just trying to re invent the wheel. I don't think this type of
conversion could ever be amortised and the cost savings would take a heck of
a long time to re cover. I spoke with one fellow who bought one of the
chrysler conversions using a mercedes diesel. The cost was over a hundred
thousand although he does get over 20 miles a gallon. Numbers just don't
make sence to me
Just a thought
Marcel 28' stretch
----- Original Message -----
From: "George Rudawsky" <GeorgeRud@aol.com>
To: <gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org>
Sent: Tuesday, January 04, 2011 16:03
Subject: [GMCnet] Duramax?
>
>
> I have been following Jim Bound's tales of the Duramax projects, and I'm
> sure he's happy they're starting to come to the finish line. In reading
> about the power and potential fuel mileage of these diesels, I do wonder
> if converting a GMC to Duramax power is a reasonable project. I
> understand that Dave Lenzi has done one, and was wondering if anyone else
> has also had any experience with such a project? It certainly sounds like
> Dave's was not a simple bolt-in project, but perhaps if more are done, the
> parts and programming that are necessary will become
> available????????????????
>
> As we have to deal with more fuel problems and increasing fuel prices,
> these conversions could become a popular upgrade.
> --
> George Rudawsky
> Chicago, IL
> 75 Palm Beach
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> List Information and Subscription Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
List Information and Subscription Options:
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-Chr$: Perpetual SmartAss
Scottsdale, AZ
77 Ex-Kingsley 455 SOLD!
2010 Nomad 24 Ft TT 390W PV W/MPPT, EV4010 and custom cargo door.
Photosite: Chrisc GMC:"It has Begun" TT: "The Other Woman"
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| Re: [GMCnet] Duramax? [message #110819 is a reply to message #110818] |
Tue, 04 January 2011 18:46 |
k2gkk
Messages: 4452
Registered: November 2009
Karma: -8
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He probably means a motorhome built
on a Dodge Sprinter chassis that uses
a M-B Diesel engine.
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
~~ ~ D C "Mac" Macdonald ~ ~~
~ ~ Amateur Radio - K2GKK ~ ~
~ ~ USAF and FAA, Retired ~ ~
~ ~ ~ Oklahoma City, OK ~ ~ ~
~~ ~ ~ "The Money Pit" ~ ~ ~~
~ ~ ~ ex-Palm Beach, 76 ~ ~ ~
~ www.gmcmhphotos.com/okclb ~
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
----------------------------------------
> To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
> From: cchoffataz@yahoo.com
> Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2011 18:42:01 -0600
> Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Duramax?
>
>
>
> Converted Chrysler "what?"
>
> They did put MB diesels in EU market Chrysler 300's, and some Jeep Grand Cherokees here have them too...
>
> My 2 cents is that it is not worth the cost of the engine swap, engineering, fabricating, and higher per gallon fuel cost, not to mention the extra NVH (Noise, Vibration, Harshness) just under your butt while driving.
>
> As a hobby sure. to save $$$ on future fuel? no. For more power? I'd go to a more modern Gas V8 like an 8.1 before a diesel...
>
> mjbourgon wrote on Tue, 04 January 2011 17:26
> > Happy new year all from Sunny Santa Teresa, New Mexico
> > I have been reading all the letters about diesels and other interesting
> > engine swaps. From a cost stand point do these changes make any sence or
> > are we just trying to re invent the wheel. I don't think this type of
> > conversion could ever be amortised and the cost savings would take a heck of
> > a long time to re cover. I spoke with one fellow who bought one of the
> > chrysler conversions using a mercedes diesel. The cost was over a hundred
> > thousand although he does get over 20 miles a gallon. Numbers just don't
> > make sence to me
> > Just a thought
> > Marcel 28' stretch
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "George Rudawsky"
> > To:
> > Sent: Tuesday, January 04, 2011 16:03
> > Subject: [GMCnet] Duramax?
> >
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > I have been following Jim Bound's tales of the Duramax projects, and I'm
> > > sure he's happy they're starting to come to the finish line. In reading
> > > about the power and potential fuel mileage of these diesels, I do wonder
> > > if converting a GMC to Duramax power is a reasonable project. I
> > > understand that Dave Lenzi has done one, and was wondering if anyone else
> > > has also had any experience with such a project? It certainly sounds like
> > > Dave's was not a simple bolt-in project, but perhaps if more are done, the
> > > parts and programming that are necessary will become
> > > available????????????????
> > >
> > > As we have to deal with more fuel problems and increasing fuel prices,
> > > these conversions could become a popular upgrade.
> > > --
> > > George Rudawsky
> > > Chicago, IL
> > > 75 Palm Beach
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > GMCnet mailing list
> > > List Information and Subscription Options:
> > > http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > GMCnet mailing list
> > List Information and Subscription Options:
> > http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
>
> --
> -Chr$: Perpetual SmartAss
> 77 Ex-Kingsley 455, Power Drive, 3:21 FD, Quadra bag. The Engineer's Motorhome
> Scottsdale, AZ
>
> Photosite: Chrisc "It has Begun"
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> List Information and Subscription Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
_______________________________________________
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| Re: [GMCnet] Duramax? [message #110820 is a reply to message #110811] |
Tue, 04 January 2011 18:58 |
powerjon
Messages: 2446
Registered: January 2004
Karma: 5
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Senior Member |
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Dave has never done a Duramax Diesel converstion, His is a 502 Chevy
truck gas engine.
JR Wright
On Jan 4, 2011, at 7:03 PM, George Rudawsky wrote:
>
>
> I have been following Jim Bound's tales of the Duramax projects, and
> I'm sure he's happy they're starting to come to the finish line. In
> reading about the power and potential fuel mileage of these diesels,
> I do wonder if converting a GMC to Duramax power is a reasonable
> project. I understand that Dave Lenzi has done one, and was
> wondering if anyone else has also had any experience with such a
> project? It certainly sounds like Dave's was not a simple bolt-in
> project, but perhaps if more are done, the parts and programming
> that are necessary will become available????????????????
>
> As we have to deal with more fuel problems and increasing fuel
> prices, these conversions could become a popular upgrade.
> --
> George Rudawsky
> Chicago, IL
> 75 Palm Beach
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
List Information and Subscription Options:
http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
J.R. Wright
GMC GreatLaker
GMC Eastern States
GMCMI
78 30' Buskirk Stretch
75 Avion Under Reconstruction
Michigan
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| Re: [GMCnet] Duramax? [message #110823 is a reply to message #110818] |
Tue, 04 January 2011 19:21 |
mjbourgon
Messages: 259
Registered: May 2010
Karma: -1
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Senior Member |
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Chrysler used a 5 cylinger diesel in their Sprinter vans
marcel
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris Choffat" <cchoffataz@yahoo.com>
To: <gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org>
Sent: Tuesday, January 04, 2011 16:42
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Duramax?
>
>
> Converted Chrysler "what?"
>
> They did put MB diesels in EU market Chrysler 300's, and some Jeep Grand
> Cherokees here have them too...
>
> My 2 cents is that it is not worth the cost of the engine swap,
> engineering, fabricating, and higher per gallon fuel cost, not to mention
> the extra NVH (Noise, Vibration, Harshness) just under your butt while
> driving.
>
> As a hobby sure. to save $$$ on future fuel? no. For more power? I'd go to
> a more modern Gas V8 like an 8.1 before a diesel...
>
> mjbourgon wrote on Tue, 04 January 2011 17:26
>> Happy new year all from Sunny Santa Teresa, New Mexico
>> I have been reading all the letters about diesels and other interesting
>> engine swaps. From a cost stand point do these changes make any sence or
>> are we just trying to re invent the wheel. I don't think this type of
>> conversion could ever be amortised and the cost savings would take a heck
>> of
>> a long time to re cover. I spoke with one fellow who bought one of the
>> chrysler conversions using a mercedes diesel. The cost was over a
>> hundred
>> thousand although he does get over 20 miles a gallon. Numbers just don't
>> make sence to me
>> Just a thought
>> Marcel 28' stretch
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "George Rudawsky" <GeorgeRud@aol.com>
>> To: <gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org>
>> Sent: Tuesday, January 04, 2011 16:03
>> Subject: [GMCnet] Duramax?
>>
>>
>> >
>> >
>> > I have been following Jim Bound's tales of the Duramax projects, and
>> > I'm
>> > sure he's happy they're starting to come to the finish line. In
>> > reading
>> > about the power and potential fuel mileage of these diesels, I do
>> > wonder
>> > if converting a GMC to Duramax power is a reasonable project. I
>> > understand that Dave Lenzi has done one, and was wondering if anyone
>> > else
>> > has also had any experience with such a project? It certainly sounds
>> > like
>> > Dave's was not a simple bolt-in project, but perhaps if more are done,
>> > the
>> > parts and programming that are necessary will become
>> > available????????????????
>> >
>> > As we have to deal with more fuel problems and increasing fuel prices,
>> > these conversions could become a popular upgrade.
>> > --
>> > George Rudawsky
>> > Chicago, IL
>> > 75 Palm Beach
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > GMCnet mailing list
>> > List Information and Subscription Options:
>> > http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> GMCnet mailing list
>> List Information and Subscription Options:
>> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
>
> --
> -Chr$: Perpetual SmartAss
> 77 Ex-Kingsley 455, Power Drive, 3:21 FD, Quadra bag. The Engineer's
> Motorhome
> Scottsdale, AZ
>
> Photosite: Chrisc "It has Begun"
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> List Information and Subscription Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
_______________________________________________
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List Information and Subscription Options:
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| Re: [GMCnet] Duramax? [message #110825 is a reply to message #110823] |
Tue, 04 January 2011 19:34 |
Don A
Messages: 895
Registered: October 2008
Location: Dallas, TX
Karma: 0
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<<<Chrysler used a 5 cylinger diesel in their Sprinter vans>>>
Isn't the Dodge Sprinter a rebadged MB van with the MB diesal in it?
Marcel are you in "sunny Santa Teresa, New Mexico" just West of El Paso? I'm thinking the Santa Teresa North of Santa Fe may be buried under snow!
Don Adams Dallas, TX
'76 26' Glenbrook, '90 Sidekick
rebuilt by R Archer, powered by J Bounds, Koba
[IMG]http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/data/6109/G2.jpg[/IMG]
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| Re: [GMCnet] Duramax? [message #110827 is a reply to message #110811] |
Tue, 04 January 2011 19:54 |
 |
USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
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Senior Member |
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G'day,
Dave Lenzi's conversion is an 8.1 liter Vortec engine which is a gasoline
engine.
I have had the pleasure of seeing the presentation he has made on this
conversion on a number of occasions. PLUS when Helen and I visited him and
Mary he actually let me DRIVE it! I can tell you the performance blew me
away!
Here's a link to a picture of the engine/trans before it was installed:
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/showphoto.php?photo=36474
Here's a link to a dyno run of the Vortec 8.1:
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/data/500/2009_Kodiak_8_1.pdf
Note the torque at 1200 RPM is OVER 400 ft lb! It might as well be a diesel!
IIRC Dave also noted that he's getting around 12 mpg towing.
As I understand it Dave is currently working on installation number 2.
Regards,
Rob M.
USAussie - Downunder
AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
-----Original Message-----
From: gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org
[mailto:gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of George Rudawsky
Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2011 11:03 AM
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Subject: [GMCnet] Duramax?
I have been following Jim Bound's tales of the Duramax projects, and I'm
sure he's happy they're starting to come to the finish line. In reading
about the power and potential fuel mileage of these diesels, I do wonder if
converting a GMC to Duramax power is a reasonable project. I understand
that Dave Lenzi has done one, and was wondering if anyone else has also had
any experience with such a project? It certainly sounds like Dave's was not
a simple bolt-in project, but perhaps if more are done, the parts and
programming that are necessary will become available????????????????
As we have to deal with more fuel problems and increasing fuel prices, these
conversions could become a popular upgrade.
--
George Rudawsky
Chicago, IL
75 Palm Beach
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
List Information and Subscription Options:
http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
List Information and Subscription Options:
http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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| Re: [GMCnet] Duramax? [message #110832 is a reply to message #110825] |
Tue, 04 January 2011 20:13 |
Bob de Kruyff
Messages: 4260
Registered: January 2004
Location: Chandler, AZ
Karma: 1
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Senior Member |
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| Don A wrote on Tue, 04 January 2011 18:34 |
<<<Chrysler used a 5 cylinger diesel in their Sprinter vans>>>
Isn't the Dodge Sprinter a rebadged MB van with the MB diesal in it?
Marcel are you in "sunny Santa Teresa, New Mexico" just West of El Paso? I'm thinking the Santa Teresa North of Santa Fe may be buried under snow!
|
Yup--and since the split it is available only as a Mercedes/Freightliner. They now use a V6 diesel
Bob de Kruyff
78 Eleganza
Chandler, AZ
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| Re: [GMCnet] Duramax? [message #110833 is a reply to message #110827] |
Tue, 04 January 2011 20:15 |
Bob de Kruyff
Messages: 4260
Registered: January 2004
Location: Chandler, AZ
Karma: 1
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Senior Member |
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The Duramax as we know it really is a pretty big engine. The GM designed 4.5 Duramax has been tabled but has a good chance of coming back. As far as diesels go, it would be a better fit, but as others have mentioned, the whole idea is questionable.
Bob de Kruyff
78 Eleganza
Chandler, AZ
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| Re: [GMCnet] Duramax? [message #110839 is a reply to message #110833] |
Tue, 04 January 2011 20:41 |
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No one has mentioned the space that the current Duramax takes up. The driver
sits a good three feet further back. That's reason number one for me. Lost
living space.
Reasons number two would be cost. It doesn't make economic senses unless you
had to swap engines anyway. At that point a diesel would be worth
considering if one would fit. And, if you got better than 13 mpg it would
even out with fuel costs.
IIRC someone toward the left coast put a small diesel in a GMC? As I recall,
it ran rather quietly (by surprise). It still pulled the coach but I'm not
sure about the transmission.
Byron
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--
Byron Songer
Full-timing to enjoy the USA
Former owner but still an admirer
GMC paint schemes at -
http://www.songerconsulting.net
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| Re: [GMCnet] Duramax? [message #110844 is a reply to message #110839] |
Tue, 04 January 2011 21:42 |
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USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
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Senior Member |
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Byron,
That was Manny, he put a diesel in his GMC AND his towd! AFAIK it's hooked
to one of his transmissions.
Regards,
Rob M.
USAussie - Downunder
AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
-----Original Message-----
From: gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org
[mailto:gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of Byron Songer
Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2011 1:42 PM
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Duramax?
No one has mentioned the space that the current Duramax takes up. The driver
sits a good three feet further back. That's reason number one for me. Lost
living space.
Reasons number two would be cost. It doesn't make economic senses unless you
had to swap engines anyway. At that point a diesel would be worth
considering if one would fit. And, if you got better than 13 mpg it would
even out with fuel costs.
IIRC someone toward the left coast put a small diesel in a GMC? As I recall,
it ran rather quietly (by surprise). It still pulled the coach but I'm not
sure about the transmission.
Byron
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Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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| Re: Duramax? [message #110845 is a reply to message #110811] |
Tue, 04 January 2011 21:45 |
jknezek
Messages: 1057
Registered: December 2007
Karma: 5
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Senior Member |
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Wasn't Jim B. trying to put a small olds diesel into someone's coach? It was showing up on the Daily Pose a while back. Wonder if that project ever made it out the door?
I can't imagine any of these conversions would be cost effective. I wonder if Mr. Lenzi would be kind enough to give us a cost estimate for having an 8.1 installed? It's pretty common knowledge what repowering with a 455 / 403 costs, and I'm sure a few people could figure out the Caddy 500 costs (although that probably makes you less efficient from a strictly mpg perspective).
Either way there are some already done options that provide a pretty good sample of ideas for repowering, and that doesn't even touch on the Duramax / workhorse concept. I'm pretty sure if you ask Jim B about those coaches he's going to tell you they are around the $200K mark.
Fortunately we have some basic math for figuring out the ideas. If you have a 455 / 403 that gets 10mpg (8-10, right???) then even doubling your mileage at $3 a gallon you are still talking about saving only $15 per 100 miles (10mpg base estimate). On a $10.5K cost increase to repower, you are talking about driving 70,000 miles to hit a break even. Anyone think any of these conversions are going to get you 20mpg? Somehow I really doubt you are going to move 12,000lbs at 20mpg... So if it's only 15mpg, you are looking at 105,000 miles to break even. If gas goes to $6 per gallon, the breakeven on an extra 10.5K repower at 15mpg is 52,500 miles. Now we're making sense.
So, if one of our ideas can increase the gas mileage by 50% and it only causes roughly a tripling of the cost of a 455 / 403 replacement (5k to 15K), and gas prices once again double, then you have a breakeven at a reasonable number of miles (50K). If anyone wants to play with the variables and doesn't feel like doing the math, I'll send you the simple spreadsheet...
Thanks,
Jeremy Knezek
1976 Glenbrook
Birmingham, AL
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| Re: Duramax? [message #110846 is a reply to message #110811] |
Tue, 04 January 2011 21:55 |
GeorgeRud
Messages: 1380
Registered: February 2007
Location: Chicago, IL
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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I think this concept may not be so valid after hearing these comments. I was searching the archives, and that is where I found the info that Dave Lenzi had done the conversions, but obviously that was in error (should have been a Vortec, not Duramax). If Manny was able to do a conversion to a diesel, something like this obviously can be done, but perhaps not easily enough to justify and energy and costs involved.
It's amazing what sort of thoughts enter your mind in the cold of winter up here!
George Rudawsky
Chicago, IL
75 Palm Beach
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| Re: [GMCnet] Duramax? [message #110851 is a reply to message #110845] |
Tue, 04 January 2011 22:26 |
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USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
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Senior Member |
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Jeremy,
Dave a VERY busy man and doesn't monitor this site. As I noted I have
listened to his presentation on this subject twice and he has never brought
up the subject of cost/price.
He is putting together a kit so you can do it yourself. As I mentioned
earlier I heard he was installing one for someone else (as a special favor?)
but I don't think he's going to offer this to the community in general.
Bill Hubler put a diesel in his coach as did Marc Hogenboom over in the
Netherlands. I don't know what they were. Here's a link to a picture of
Marc's:
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/showphoto.php?photo=5490
Regards,
Rob M.
USAussie - Downunder
AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
-----Original Message-----
From: gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org
[mailto:gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of Jeremy
Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2011 2:45 PM
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Duramax?
Wasn't Jim B. trying to put a small olds diesel into someone's coach? It was
showing up on the Daily Pose a while back. Wonder if that project ever made
it out the door?
I can't imagine any of these conversions would be cost effective. I wonder
if Mr. Lenzi would be kind enough to give us a cost estimate for having an
8.1 installed? It's pretty common knowledge what repowering with a 455 / 403
costs, and I'm sure a few people could figure out the Caddy 500 costs
(although that probably makes you less efficient from a strictly mpg
perspective).
Either way there are some already done options that provide a pretty good
sample of ideas for repowering, and that doesn't even touch on the Duramax /
workhorse concept. I'm pretty sure if you ask Jim B about those coaches he's
going to tell you they are around the $200K mark.
Fortunately we have some basic math for figuring out the ideas. If you have
a 455 / 403 that gets 10mpg (8-10, right???) then even doubling your mileage
at $3 a gallon you are still talking about saving only $15 per 100 miles
(10mpg base estimate). On a $10.5K cost increase to repower, you are talking
about driving 70,000 miles to hit a break even. Anyone think any of these
conversions are going to get you 20mpg? Somehow I really doubt you are going
to move 12,000lbs at 20mpg... So if it's only 15mpg, you are looking at
105,000 miles to break even. If gas goes to $6 per gallon, the breakeven on
an extra 10.5K repower at 15mpg is 52,500 miles. Now we're making sense.
So, if one of our ideas can increase the gas mileage by 50% and it only
causes roughly a tripling of the cost of a 455 / 403 replacement (5k to
15K), and gas prices once again double, then you have a breakeven at a
reasonable number of miles (50K). If anyone wants to play with the variables
and doesn't feel like doing the math, I'll send you the simple
spreadsheet...
--
Thanks,
Jeremy Knezek
1976 Glenbrook
Birmingham, AL
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Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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| Re: [GMCnet] Duramax? [message #110861 is a reply to message #110845] |
Tue, 04 January 2011 23:42 |
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I always wondered about an Olds diesel. The did put it in the FWD 78 and 79
models but, of course, that was a different front end from the Toronado so
bolt-by-bolt probably wouldn't work. My brother had a 79 Olds 88 Royale with
the diesel. He said it was a mistake and not sure why. Knowing him it could
be because that and the VWs and MBs were the only things running diesel and
it wasn't that common then.
I also seem to recall hearing the Olds engine didn't stand up to the
compression ratios because it was a re-cooked gas engine - not designed from
the ground up to be a diesel block. Of course, that could have been the
opinion of someone that didn't like diesel. At any rate, the "experiment"
didn't last.
Byron Songer
1978 Royale by Coachmen
Louisville, KY
Personal - http://web.me.com/bnsonger
Eastern States - http://www.gmceast.com
Jeremy wrote:
> Wasn't Jim B. trying to put a small olds diesel into someone's coach? It was
> showing up on the Daily Pose a while back. Wonder if that project ever made it
> out the door?
>
> I can't imagine any of these conversions would be cost effective. I wonder if
> Mr. Lenzi would be kind enough to give us a cost estimate for having an 8.1
> installed? It's pretty common knowledge what repowering with a 455 / 403
> costs, and I'm sure a few people could figure out the Caddy 500 costs
> (although that probably makes you less efficient from a strictly mpg
> perspective).
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
List Information and Subscription Options:
http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
--
Byron Songer
Full-timing to enjoy the USA
Former owner but still an admirer
GMC paint schemes at -
http://www.songerconsulting.net
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| Re: [GMCnet] Duramax? [message #110865 is a reply to message #110861] |
Wed, 05 January 2011 01:07 |
Adrien G.
Messages: 474
Registered: May 2008
Location: Burns Flat, OK 73624
Karma: 1
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Senior Member |
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Byon
I had a 80 cutlles supreme 5.7 diesel (350 c i).
1. 2 bolt main caps- very weak, causing the cranks do break.
2. 4 bolt head (bolt pattern)-blows head gasket between cyl 4&6 and/or cyl 3 & 5. The block also lacks adequate internal ribbing
for the compression ratio.
3. Without a turbo it's a gutless wander. Turbos have been tried
with no lasting success.
4. The engine is not a beefed up gas engine, but it was designed
to fit in the same cavity.
The gm 6.2 diesel (380 c i) with a turbo might be a possible candidate, but I don't think the mpg would improve enough. Those
engines are getting scarce.
I rebuilt a 5.7 engine with heavy modifications to the top and bottom, such as 4 bolt main caps, gr 8 head studs, copper ringed
the cyl tops to add more seal pressure to the head gasket, and more.
6 years of driving and 10 blown head gaskets (always between 4&6)
I threw in the towel.
I was able to change the gasket blind folded.
I haven't seen one of these engines, in the man's mall, in years
Hope this discourages any further thought of this engine.
Adrien & Jenny Genesoto
75 Glenbrook (26-3) Mods LS3.70 FD / Reaction Sys / 80mm Front&Intermidiate / Hydroboost / 16" Tires / Frame Rebuild / Interior Rebuild
Yuba City,Ca. Text 530-nine-3-three-3-nine-nine-6
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| Re: [GMCnet] Duramax? [message #110869 is a reply to message #110861] |
Wed, 05 January 2011 01:45 |
robert caudle
Messages: 25
Registered: January 2004
Karma: 0
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Junior Member |
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I had one of the olds diesels in a 79 cadillac. They used a fuel nozzle and
not an injector. There was a scheduler that ran off of a concentric that
sent fuel to each nozzle and the nozzles were easy to foul, I think I had
about forty of them and had to change a lot, maybe the cheap mexico diesel I
was burning(bg), it was just a glorified olds 350 gas engine
----- Original Message -----
From: "Byron Songer" <bsonger@songerconsulting.net>
To: <gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org>
Sent: Tuesday, January 04, 2011 11:42 PM
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Duramax?
>I always wondered about an Olds diesel. The did put it in the FWD 78 and 79
> models but, of course, that was a different front end from the Toronado so
> bolt-by-bolt probably wouldn't work. My brother had a 79 Olds 88 Royale
> with
> the diesel. He said it was a mistake and not sure why. Knowing him it
> could
> be because that and the VWs and MBs were the only things running diesel
> and
> it wasn't that common then.
>
> I also seem to recall hearing the Olds engine didn't stand up to the
> compression ratios because it was a re-cooked gas engine - not designed
> from
> the ground up to be a diesel block. Of course, that could have been the
> opinion of someone that didn't like diesel. At any rate, the "experiment"
> didn't last.
>
> Byron Songer
> 1978 Royale by Coachmen
> Louisville, KY
> Personal - http://web.me.com/bnsonger
> Eastern States - http://www.gmceast.com
>
>
>
> Jeremy wrote:
>
>> Wasn't Jim B. trying to put a small olds diesel into someone's coach? It
>> was
>> showing up on the Daily Pose a while back. Wonder if that project ever
>> made it
>> out the door?
>>
>> I can't imagine any of these conversions would be cost effective. I
>> wonder if
>> Mr. Lenzi would be kind enough to give us a cost estimate for having an
>> 8.1
>> installed? It's pretty common knowledge what repowering with a 455 / 403
>> costs, and I'm sure a few people could figure out the Caddy 500 costs
>> (although that probably makes you less efficient from a strictly mpg
>> perspective).
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> List Information and Subscription Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
>
> -----
> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 10.0.1191 / Virus Database: 1435/3358 - Release Date: 01/04/11
>
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