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| [GMCnet] parking brake - disks [message #110450] |
Sat, 01 January 2011 05:36  |
Mr ERFisher
Messages: 7117
Registered: August 2005
Karma: 2
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Senior Member |
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wanted to start a new link
Here are some of the things we were looking at , back in 06 (love to say
that)
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/showphoto.php?photo=37252&title=dual-disk1&cat=5679
http://goo.gl/WVGnk
TerryS built the dual caliper plate, and he was looking at using a second
caliper with a second Master cyl, connected to the brake lever.
I was looking at attaching a mechanical caliper on the second position,
connected to the emergency brake cables.
this would not impact the normal disk brakes.
nothing new that I know of since that time.
FYI
gene
---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Rob Mueller <robmueller@iinet.net.au>
Date: Fri, Dec 31, 2010 at 9:50 PM
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] MORE REACTION ARM TAKL
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Someone with more money than sense! ;-)
Actually I reckon it would be a hell of a lot easier to come up with a
mechanical caliper that clamps to the disk.
At DuQuoin Al Branscombe had a Kelsey Hayes (I think) brake caliper out of a
Lincoln (I think) that has a ball bearing mechanism to actuate the pads in a
similar way that the ones Eldorado's used.
Regards,
Rob "the bloody smart arse" M.
USAussie - Downunder
AUS '75 Avion-The Blue StreakTZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion-Double Trouble TZE365V100426
--
Gene Fisher -- 74-23,77PB/ore/ca
“Give a man a fish; you have fed him for today --- give him a URL and
-------
http://gmcmotorhome.info/
Alternator Protection Cable
http://gmcmotorhome.info/APC.html
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| Re: [GMCnet] parking brake - disks [message #110455 is a reply to message #110450] |
Sat, 01 January 2011 07:09  |
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USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
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Senior Member |
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Gene,
I like it! I want one; er two!
Has anyone built one and mounted it?
Follows the KISS principle!
Are there any templates for the "dual caliper" brackets available?
Regards,
Rob M.
USAussie - Downunder
AUS '75 Avion-The Blue StreakTZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion-Double Trouble TZE365V100426
-----Original Message-----
From: gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org
[mailto:gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of Mr.erf ERFisher
Sent: Saturday, January 01, 2011 10:37 PM
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Subject: [GMCnet] parking brake - disks
wanted to start a new link
Here are some of the things we were looking at , back in 06 (love to say
that)
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/showphoto.php?photo=37252&title=dual-disk1
&cat=5679
http://goo.gl/WVGnk
TerryS built the dual caliper plate, and he was looking at using a second
caliper with a second Master cyl, connected to the brake lever.
I was looking at attaching a mechanical caliper on the second position,
connected to the emergency brake cables.
this would not impact the normal disk brakes.
nothing new that I know of since that time.
FYI
gene
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Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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| Re: [GMCnet] parking brake - disks [message #110459 is a reply to message #110456] |
Sat, 01 January 2011 07:39 |
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USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
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Senior Member |
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Hardie,
No, the Kelsey Hayes unit is a hydraulic brake caliper.
Regards,
Rob M.
USAussie - Downunder
AUS '75 Avion-The Blue StreakTZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion-Double Trouble TZE365V100426
-----Original Message-----
From: gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org
[mailto:gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of Hardie Johnson
Sent: Sunday, January 02, 2011 12:23 AM
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] parking brake - disks
Mr ERFisher wrote on Sat, 01 January 2011 06:36
> wanted to start a new link
>
<>http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/showphoto.php?photo=37252&title=dual-dis
k1&cat=5679
>
> http://goo.gl/WVGnk
> <>
Is that a Kelsey Hayes unit or some other manufacturer?
--
Hardie Johnson "Crashj"
1973 26 foot Glacier, White Thing
Raleigh NC
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Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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| Re: [GMCnet] parking brake - disks [message #110497 is a reply to message #110465] |
Sat, 01 January 2011 11:44 |
78 Barbi
Messages: 80
Registered: August 2004
Location: Tiverton, Ontario , Canad...
Karma: -1
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Member |
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Wally; here's some data that might prove useful, about 11 months and many dollars later I've found it takes a extreme amount of clamp force to hold the GMC stationary on a 10 - 12 % slope. Far exceeding any capabilities of any drum in hat or after market mechanical caliper . If for some reason the Kelsey Hayes caliper doesn't fly , the only other candidate is the A1 Hummer / military Humvee rear caliper that is robust enough to provide parking brake function and limited emergency brake for our 12000 lb. GMC's
KELSEY HAYES PARKBRAKE CALIPER / GMC OEM MASTER CYLINDER
Gentlemen, Upon installing the 66 mm HBA parkbrake caliper ( Kelsey Hayes ) on the trailing wheel set of our 23 foot Birchaven; I had discussed master cylinder requirements at length with Paul Lambke and Dave Mumert . The general consensus was that it was kind of a shame to upgrade the calipers and rotors and then install a P-30 MC and subsequently wind up with 20 % less braking effectiveness than before I began the project.
I have the 80 mm calipers on the front of the coach and removed the 80 mm calipers that I had on the intermediate wheel set that I installed a couple of years ago. I installed a new set of 70 mm calipers ( ie. Front OEM) on the intermediate wheel set . These calipers are actually 74.6mm piston diameter. Why aren’t they called 75 mm ??? , Removed the rear most drums and installed a pair of the 66 mm Kelsey Hayes parkbrake calipers. The paint dried on them between home and DeQuoin , Il. There appears to be no problem with the OEM master cylinder capacity . I would consider going to a MC that has the same bore as the OEM but a larger fluid volume , Does anyone know what this master cylinder is called ?
Our Kelsey Hayes calipers were tested at 1500 rpm engine speed by Jim K. , Walt Halley and Larry Weidner at DuQuoin and the coach was held stationery in each case although at the time our power assist actuator was still in service. Can the actuator be done away with , We’ll see !
After returning home from the fall rally , I built a couple of inclinometers for our car and set out to find some steep inclines . Found 4 prospective ones and calibrated the inclinometers on a dead level surface and set out to measure the slope of the hills. Found they varied between 11% to 13.5 % , recorded the results and snapped some photos and returned home.
Disconnected the air supply to the actuator and capped the air supply, leaving the cylinder open to atmosphere. Took the GMC out to the hills and tested the parkbrake on each of the 4 hills in both forward and reverse modes. In each case the parkbrake held the coach stationary with about 7 out of 10 turns on the PB handle knob.. The lever was not easy to pull on but it could be done with one hand. The cable tension in the intermediate cable ranged between 175 to 190 pounds per side . Should one need an actuator a small boost cylinder could be incorporated into the distance mutiplier assembly at a modest cost, ie. Less than half of the cost of our current actuator.
Will post some photos of the tests on the Photo site shortly and a description on the test results. Oh ! Yes we removed the spring assembly at the front of the combo. Valve as per Ken Hendersons instructions .....Thanks Ken !
Thanks and regards to all.......Happy New Year and God Bless !
Albert & Sheila Branscombe
Tiverton, ON , CAN
78 Birchaven ( Barbi )
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| Re: [GMCnet] parking brake - disks [message #110552 is a reply to message #110497] |
Sun, 02 January 2011 07:21 |
Carleton Douglas[1]
Messages: 174
Registered: March 2006
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Albert,
Could you give us more information the Hummer A1 caliper, like year
mfg and so on so someone could go to a parts store and get one or two?
I appreciate the effort that you have put into this and it is of great
value to all GMC owners.
Thanks
On Sat, Jan 1, 2011 at 10:44 AM, Albert&Sheila Branscombe
<branscoa@bmts.com> wrote:
>
>
> Wally; here's some data that might prove useful, about 11 months and many dollars later I've found it takes a extreme amount of clamp force to hold the GMC stationary on a 10 - 12 % slope. Far exceeding any capabilities of any drum in hat or after market mechanical caliper . If for some reason the Kelsey Hayes caliper doesn't fly , the only other candidate is the A1 Hummer / military Humvee rear caliper that is robust enough to provide parking brake function and limited emergency brake for our 12000 lb. GMC's
>
>
> KELSEY HAYES PARKBRAKE CALIPER / GMC OEM MASTER CYLINDER
>
> Gentlemen, Upon installing the 66 mm HBA parkbrake caliper ( Kelsey Hayes ) on the trailing wheel set of our 23 foot Birchaven; I had discussed master cylinder requirements at length with Paul Lambke and Dave Mumert . The general consensus was that it was kind of a shame to upgrade the calipers and rotors and then install a P-30 MC and subsequently wind up with 20 % less braking effectiveness than before I began the project.
>
> I have the 80 mm calipers on the front of the coach and removed the 80 mm calipers that I had on the intermediate wheel set that I installed a couple of years ago. I installed a new set of 70 mm calipers ( ie. Front OEM) on the intermediate wheel set . These calipers are actually 74.6mm piston diameter. Why aren’t they called 75 mm ??? , Removed the rear most drums and installed a pair of the 66 mm Kelsey Hayes parkbrake calipers. The paint dried on them between home and DeQuoin , Il. There appears to be no problem with the OEM master cylinder capacity . I would consider going to a MC that has the same bore as the OEM but a larger fluid volume , Does anyone know what this master cylinder is called ?
>
> Our Kelsey Hayes calipers were tested at 1500 rpm engine speed by Jim K. , Walt Halley and Larry Weidner at DuQuoin and the coach was held stationery in each case although at the time our power assist actuator was still in service. Can the actuator be done away with , We’ll see !
> After returning home from the fall rally , I built a couple of inclinometers for our car and set out to find some steep inclines . Found 4 prospective ones and calibrated the inclinometers on a dead level surface and set out to measure the slope of the hills. Found they varied between 11% to 13.5 % , recorded the results and snapped some photos and returned home.
>
> Disconnected the air supply to the actuator and capped the air supply, leaving the cylinder open to atmosphere. Took the GMC out to the hills and tested the parkbrake on each of the 4 hills in both forward and reverse modes. In each case the parkbrake held the coach stationary with about 7 out of 10 turns on the PB handle knob.. The lever was not easy to pull on but it could be done with one hand. The cable tension in the intermediate cable ranged between 175 to 190 pounds per side . Should one need an actuator a small boost cylinder could be incorporated into the distance mutiplier assembly at a modest cost, ie. Less than half of the cost of our current actuator.
>
> Will post some photos of the tests on the Photo site shortly and a description on the test results. Oh ! Yes we removed the spring assembly at the front of the combo. Valve as per Ken Hendersons instructions .....Thanks Ken !
>
> Thanks and regards to all.......Happy New Year and God Bless !
>
> Albert & Sheila Branscombe
> Tiverton, ON , CAN
>
> 78 Birchaven ( Barbi )
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> List Information and Subscription Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
--
Carleton Douglas
73 custom, by myself
Prescott, AZ
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| Re: [GMCnet] parking brake - disks [message #110558 is a reply to message #110552] |
Sun, 02 January 2011 09:42 |
78 Barbi
Messages: 80
Registered: August 2004
Location: Tiverton, Ontario , Canad...
Karma: -1
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Member |
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Hi Carleton,
The H1 - A1 Hummer Alphas and the military Humvee used a combination hydraulic / mechanical caliper of the Kelsey Hayes ball and ramp design on their vehicles that is listed as 1992 to 2004 , this caliper is a 66 mm piston caliper , ie. The same size as we are testing on our coach .
Kelsey Hayes Corp. was split up many years ago and new companies were formed, Hayes Brake Off Road and TRW in Livonia, MI being but two of them. The ball ramp design was maintained by all the companies. If you google TRW “ intregrated park brake calipers “ you’ll find the first caliper on the page interesting but on consulting with TRW , I found that the caliper piston dia. maxes out at 45 mm. , much too small for our use !
I managed to talk with one of TRW’s gurus at brake research in Livonia and it was he who suggested the Hummer caliper might be an alternative should the old Lincoln / Thunderbird caliper not work out for one reason or another. I suspect the only reason he was willing to talk to me “ Off record” was that he had a brother and a cousin that had GMC motorhomes.
The Hummer caliper is a huge caliper being almost 4 inches longer than the Caddy or the Kelsey Hayes caliper. My knowledge of it is almost non existent except seeing some of its inside components in various photos on various websites, Sax Express out of Alabama being a prime one. I don’t know if one could be fit inside our Alcoa’s or clear our wheel wells. I did meet a chap at the DuQuoin rally who hailed from Winnipeg, CAN that has two Hummers and expressed some interest in the GMC park brake project, but unfortunately I’ve lost his name, perhaps some of you might remember ? Any words of wisdom always appreciated !
Cheers............Albert
Barbi , The 78 Birchaven
Tiverton, Ontario
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| Re: [GMCnet] parking brake - disks [message #110584 is a reply to message #110572] |
Sun, 02 January 2011 17:00 |
jimk
Messages: 6734
Registered: July 2006
Location: Belmont, CA
Karma: 9
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Senior Member |
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Al,
We are finding that the material on the pad is critical.
Metalic ones do not hole too well when it is cold. The less expensive
ones seem to hold better.
On Sun, Jan 2, 2011 at 10:05 AM, Albert&Sheila Branscombe
<branscoa@bmts.com> wrote:
>
>
> Hey Wally,
> Â I think his name was Tom ! Â Was he not there without his coach and had to leave the rally early ? Our email address is mailto:branscoa@bmts.com
> Thanks...Albert
>
> 78 Barbi
> 23 foot Birchaven
> Tiverton, ON
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> List Information and Subscription Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
--
Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC, Fremont,CA
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
http://www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
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Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
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| Re: [GMCnet] parking brake - disks [message #110587 is a reply to message #110584] |
Sun, 02 January 2011 17:16 |
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USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
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Senior Member |
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Jim,
Dan and I were worried not seeing you around here for the past week or so!
Hope you were just taking some time off, you work too BLOODY hard, Mate!
I went with Carbon Metallic brake pads on Double Trouble at Dave Lenzi's
recommendation. He noted that I needed to "warm them up when I first started
out in the mornings." Jim B echoed that advice; I was at the Coop when they
were fitted.
Regards,
Rob M.
USAussie - Downunder
AUS '75 Avion-The Blue StreakTZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion-Double Trouble TZE365V100426
-----Original Message-----
From: gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org
[mailto:gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of Jim Kanomata
Sent: Monday, January 03, 2011 10:01 AM
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] parking brake - disks
Al,
We are finding that the material on the pad is critical.
Metalic ones do not hole too well when it is cold. The less expensive
ones seem to hold better.
--
Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC, Fremont,CA
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
http://www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
List Information and Subscription Options:
http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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| Re: [GMCnet] parking brake - disks [message #110589 is a reply to message #110587] |
Sun, 02 January 2011 17:33 |
jimk
Messages: 6734
Registered: July 2006
Location: Belmont, CA
Karma: 9
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Senior Member |
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Rob,
I have been busy drinking Rice wine like a good Ornamental.
If I could find where I placed all my papers, I would have more time
to do other projects.
On Sun, Jan 2, 2011 at 3:16 PM, Rob Mueller <robmueller@iinet.net.au> wrote:
> Jim,
>
> Dan and I were worried not seeing you around here for the past week or so!
> Hope you were just taking some time off, you work too BLOODY hard, Mate!
>
> I went with Carbon Metallic brake pads on Double Trouble at Dave Lenzi's
> recommendation. He noted that I needed to "warm them up when I first started
> out in the mornings." Jim B echoed that advice; I was at the Coop when they
> were fitted.
>
> Regards,
> Rob M.
> USAussie - Downunder
> AUS '75 Avion-The Blue StreakTZE365V100428
> USA '75 Avion-Double Trouble TZE365V100426
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org
> [mailto:gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of Jim Kanomata
> Sent: Monday, January 03, 2011 10:01 AM
> To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
> Subject: Re: [GMCnet] parking brake - disks
>
> Al,
> We are finding that the material on the pad is critical.
> Metalic ones do not hole too well when it is cold. The less expensive
> ones seem to hold better.
>
> --
> Jim Kanomata
> Applied/GMC, Fremont,CA
> jimk@appliedairfilters.com
> http://www.appliedgmc.com
> 1-800-752-7502
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> List Information and Subscription Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
--
Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC, Fremont,CA
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
http://www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
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http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
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| Re: [GMCnet] parking brake - disks [message #110596 is a reply to message #110594] |
Sun, 02 January 2011 19:09 |
jimk
Messages: 6734
Registered: July 2006
Location: Belmont, CA
Karma: 9
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Senior Member |
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Al,
By using your cable and pully system we have some that are getting
good result usig the longer parking lever as it has more mecanical
advantage towards the last 25% of the stroke.
This mignt be the way for those that do not want a power assisted unit.
Have you had any luck finding anyone that can fab an inexpensive
mounting adapter for the Kelsey Hays caliper?
On Sun, Jan 2, 2011 at 5:00 PM, Albert&Sheila Branscombe
<branscoa@bmts.com> wrote:
>
>
> Hey Jim !
> Â Glad to have you back......HAPPY NEW YEAR ! , Yes we were warned not to put carbon metallics on the rear most wheel set with the Kelsey Hayes calipers. We have AC Delco ceramics on the parkbrake calipers and CM's on the other 4 wheels.
>
> When you tested the parkbrake at DuQuoin the ceramics were being used and they seemed to get better as they and the new rotors bonded ( no pun intended ) ; well yah there is LOL !
>
> Cheers.....Albert
> 78 Barbi
> The 23 foot Birchaven
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> List Information and Subscription Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
--
Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC, Fremont,CA
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
http://www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
List Information and Subscription Options:
http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
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| Re: [GMCnet] parking brake - disks [message #110606 is a reply to message #110596] |
Sun, 02 January 2011 20:34 |
78 Barbi
Messages: 80
Registered: August 2004
Location: Tiverton, Ontario , Canad...
Karma: -1
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Member |
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Jim K. wrote : Have you had any luck finding anyone that can fab an inexpensive
mounting adapter for the Kelsey Hays caliper?
Hi Jim,
No we haven't found anyone to fab a rail caliper mount and accompanying backing plate. Before leaving DuQuoin , Dave Lenzi and I discussed cutting, milling , drilling and welding methods relating to the mount. The general agreement was that each mount would cost the equivalent of one of Dave's upper control arms to make. The technical aspect seems to be getting more sound as the tests have been concluded but cost may ultimately kill the project. However I plan to build 6 to 10 sets just to get a feel as to what they really cost to produce and 5 sets are already spoken for.
A complete setup would include calipers, caliper mounting adapters, adapter mounting plates, ceramic brake pads, vented rotors, rotor spacers, hydraulic hoses, stainless caliper levers, stainless parkbrake cables, cable distance multiplier and all necessary Grade 8 fasteners.
Cheers......Albert
78 Barbi
The 23 foot Birchaven
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| Re: [GMCnet] parking brake - disks [message #110615 is a reply to message #110612] |
Sun, 02 January 2011 21:59 |
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USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
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Senior Member |
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Albert,
I think Jim might have been talking about this:
http://www.appliedgmc.com/prod.itml/icOid/878
Regards,
Rob M.
USAussie - Downunder
AUS '75 Avion-The Blue StreakTZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion-Double Trouble TZE365V100426
-----Original Message-----
From: gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org
[mailto:gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of Albert&Sheila
Branscombe
Sent: Monday, January 03, 2011 2:48 PM
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] parking brake - disks
Jim K. wrote : By using your cable and pully system we have some that are
getting good result usig the longer parking lever as it has more mecanical
advantage towards the last 25% of the stroke.
Jim,
The longer parkbrake lever sounds like an excellent idea. The OEM lever
is classed as a 10 inch lever with a max. stroke of 2-3/8" , if one had say
a 13 inch lever with a similar mechanical advantage and a 3 inch stroke; one
would not need any power assist at all. For those that might be " Limp of
Wrist" ( Holy crap is that a proper expression ) one could incorporate a
small power assist cylinder into the distance multiplier at a modest cost.
Did you modify the OEM handle or get one of those large "West coast handle
unit" ? I'll look into the handle situation as well and perhaps we can put
the actuator on the back shelf for good.
Cheers.....Albert
78 Barbi
The 23 foot Birchaven
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GMCnet mailing list
List Information and Subscription Options:
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_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
List Information and Subscription Options:
http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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