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| Re: [GMCnet] Road Wonder [message #109973 is a reply to message #109969] |
Tue, 28 December 2010 04:13   |
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USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
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Adrien,
I attended the Santa Rosa rally and one day I was walking toward the meeting
hall from where all the coaches were parked.
The exit from the parking lot had a short steep ramp and the road had a
pretty high crown on it.
I watched a coach make a right turn as it left the parking lot. I couldn't
believe my eyes when I saw what the middle and rear wheels did as they went
down the ramp and then up the crown during the turn. The middles leaned one
way and the rears leaned the other at the same time. It was like they formed
an X!
I asked one of the old timers about it and he smiled and said there's
nothing wrong with that coach that's what they do!
Regards,
Rob M.
USAussie
-----Original Message-----
From: gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org
[mailto:gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of Adrien Genesoto
Sent: Tuesday, December 28, 2010 6:59 PM
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Road Wonder
Robert and Mike,
An owner should make a sharp turn and stop without straightning out, get out
and look at the distorsion that is incurred on that rear suspension. That
happens in city driving.
It's a wonder the the wheels can stay in any kind of alignment.
My few cents worth.
--
Adrien
75 Glenbrook
Yuba City,Ca.
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Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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| Re: [GMCnet] Road Wonder [message #109976 is a reply to message #109918] |
Tue, 28 December 2010 06:05 |
Steven Ferguson
Messages: 3447
Registered: May 2006
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Michael,
They are called a variety of names depending on who makes them. It is a
very basic, easy to install part that limits bogey arm movement to the
vertical plane only. The kits come with one channel that bolts to the frame
and a sealed offset bearing that bolt to the backside of the spindle and
that bearing travels up and down in the frame mounted channel. Very
simple, very effective. Even with new bushings and pins, the rear bogey
arms, especially the front ones, move in quite a bit depending on road
irregularities. This tends to steer the rear of the coach a bit and of
course, what happens in the rear, has an effect on the front. Many GMC
handling problems are caused by problems in the rear. Everything from worn
pins and bushings, tire pressures, bad shocks, bent bogey arms and
misalignment has some effect on the drivability of the coach.
If you want to see just how much your bogey arms flex in and out, have
someone drive your coach in a parking lot and make a sharp turn. Tracking
channels prohibit this movement and make the tire sidewalls absorb the road
irregularities like they were designed to do. (One of the reasons most
everyone here recommends ragwall tires.)
On Mon, Dec 27, 2010 at 4:27 PM, Michael <radioactive626@msn.com> wrote:
>
>
> Aren't truetracks wheel extenders?
> --
> 1973 23' Sequoia-
> Michael, Casa Grande, AZ
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Steve Ferguson
Sierra Vista, AZ
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| Re: [GMCnet] Road Wander [message #109978 is a reply to message #109893] |
Tue, 28 December 2010 06:34 |
Steven Ferguson
Messages: 3447
Registered: May 2006
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Mike,
You need to keep an eye on those fronts. I told them what to do and they
went and did it their way, which, is why the new owners of my coach killed
the new front tires in 3,000 miles. Maximum toe should be no more that
1/16th TOTAL.
Jerry is a front end guy when it comes to GMCs, they have no way to align
the rears nor do they know how to check for pin and bushing wear.
Did they check ride height prior to the alignment?
On Mon, Dec 27, 2010 at 12:03 PM, Michael <radioactive626@msn.com> wrote:
>
>
> Ok, someone asked about alignment specs. Heres what Spectrac said...
> LEFT BEFORE...
> Camber + 1/2
> Caster +1
> Toe (blank)
>
> LEFT After
> Camber +1/2
> Caster +1
> Toe +1/16"
>
> RIGHT Before...
> Camber +1/4
> Caster + 1 1/2
>
> Right After....
> Camber +1/4
> Caster +1 1/2
> Toe +1/16"
> --
> 1973 23' Sequoia-
> Michael, Casa Grande, AZ
> _______________________________________________
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--
Steve Ferguson
Sierra Vista, AZ
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| Re: Road Wonder [message #109985 is a reply to message #109821] |
Tue, 28 December 2010 10:13 |
RadioActiveGMC
Messages: 1020
Registered: November 2010
Location: Hot AZ desert
Karma: 0
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Steve, I'm not sure how they actually went about it. Jerry assured me "I was at the right place with my GMC" when I brought it. I must admit he was super nice.
Mark was nice till you question him about anything. When he gave me the story on the alignment you speak of his story made sense. HOWEVER when I called him about my issues he came up with a story that would of made sense to someone else who heard it but it sure was a distorted version of the real conversation I had with him. He spoke so rude I told him that he had no business talking to me like that. So I'm guessing they just take facts and bend them to their needs. He was SOOO mad that I called and talked to Jerry.Honestly 50% of what he was saying to me was truthful the other 50% of distorted reality.
At this point I'm not sure what they did or how they did it. I can't get a answer from him and I don't know enough about the topic to really counter what he says.
I know one thing they really don't like when stuff is discussed on the net.
***"Gettin There"-1973 23' Sequoia-
Michael, Onans smell, "Go solar/wind power!"
[Updated on: Tue, 28 December 2010 10:14] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Road Wonder [message #109992 is a reply to message #109821] |
Tue, 28 December 2010 11:15 |
Keith V
Messages: 2337
Registered: March 2008
Location: Mounds View,MN
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"the other 50% of distorted reality. "
wow, aren't you the nice one!
And you know Jim and Jim also monitor the net. It's not always a bad thing. It's a very good way for a business to catch issues and help their customers.
If they get pissed off because someone is discussing problems with their friends, well too bad for them.
Keith Vasilakes
Mounds View. MN
75 ex Royale GMC
ask me about MicroLevel
Cell, 763-732-3419
My427v8@hotmail.com
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| Re: Road Wonder [message #109997 is a reply to message #109985] |
Tue, 28 December 2010 11:47 |
roy1
Messages: 2126
Registered: July 2004
Location: Minden nevada
Karma: 6
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If I were you I would have Steve look at it then fix what you are capable of doing. Then get it aligned by someone that has a reputation for aligning GMC's properly. When I first purchased my 26 ft coach I took it to a recommended frame and front end shop as the rear wheels were obviously bent in on the middle wheels. The shop aligned the rear wheels and front also. The spec sheet they gave me had all the before and after figures.
When the rear tires started to wear badly I checked them with a string and a framing square. The shop had adjusted them better but not good enough. The front adjusting bolts were caked in old grease so they never touched the front alignment. I left the shop manual with them during the alignment so they could reference it.Moral of the story beware of mechanics that aren't familiar with what they are working on. Time is money I it takes to long they will likely fudge it figuring you would have no way to check their work.
Roy
Roy Keen
Minden,NV
76 X Glenbrook
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| Re: Road Wonder [message #109998 is a reply to message #109821] |
Tue, 28 December 2010 11:51 |
RadioActiveGMC
Messages: 1020
Registered: November 2010
Location: Hot AZ desert
Karma: 0
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Steve F said he'd give it a look at the pinal co fairgrounds. That would be awesome!!!!! Today I reduced my tire pressure as I'll start there. Havent taken it on a run yet but I hope to this afternoon since it needs gas anyway. I look forward to seeing if even that made a difference.
***"Gettin There"-1973 23' Sequoia-
Michael, Onans smell, "Go solar/wind power!"
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| Re: Road Wonder [message #110002 is a reply to message #109821] |
Tue, 28 December 2010 12:32 |
Ernest Dankert
Messages: 133
Registered: May 2007
Location: Ogden, New York
Karma: 1
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Steering box replacement and rubber A arm bushings did the most for my coach; Lenzi idler arms improved even though i could detect no play.
1977 Eleganza II
Ogden NY
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| Re: [GMCnet] Road Wonder [message #110003 is a reply to message #109973] |
Tue, 28 December 2010 12:41 |
jayrabe
Messages: 509
Registered: June 2009
Location: Portland, OR
Karma: 0
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I've been concerned about that too. When I pull in beside my house I have to cut in around parked cars and get close to the curb, so it's a sharp right turn, then after a few feet a sharp left, very low speed of course. Looking in my side view mirror I see that the outside rear wheels are badly tipped, top in, bottom out. Yeah, OK, I guess that's the way they were designed, but I'm wondering, is that the movement that bends the bogie pins? If not, how exactly do they get bent?
It's been recommended that after getting next to
the curb I pull straight forward a few feet, then back, to let the
wheels get realigned. Is that a good thing to do, or not really needed? If I don't do that, and leave the wheel tipped, will that contribute to bending the bogies? And finally, am I understanding correctly that the True Tracks will eliminate that kind of movement?
Thanks
J
76 PB
Portland, OR
> From: robmueller@iinet.net.au
> Date: Tue, 28 Dec 2010 21:13:35 +1100
> ... a short steep ramp and ... a pretty high crown on it.
> ... The middles leaned one way and the rears leaned the other at the same time...
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| Re: [GMCnet] Road Wonder [message #110005 is a reply to message #110003] |
Tue, 28 December 2010 13:05 |
Ken Henderson
Messages: 8726
Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA
Karma: 9
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Jay,
I don't think I've ever heard of a bent bogie pin. It's the arms
themselves that bend, and that from lateral forces such as hitting a
curb, not from maneuvering. As for your parking situation, I'd
certainly want to pull straight forward and back, perhaps a couple of
times, after the S-turn you describe. I'd like to relieve the
sidewall stresses in the tires even though it's unlikely that the
suspension arms would be damage by leaving them in that obviously
distorted condition.
True tracks prevent lateral movement of the suspension arms; they
won't prevent the twisting which we see as camber change, though they
may reduce it a slight amount.
The true tracks on the center wheels were one of the last things I did
to my suspension; I was shocked at how much they improved what I'd
thought was pretty good tracking.
Ken H.
On Tue, Dec 28, 2010 at 1:41 PM, Jay Rabe <jayrabe@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> I've been concerned about that too. When I pull in beside my house I have to cut in around parked cars and get close to the curb, so it's a sharp right turn, then after a few feet a sharp left, very low speed of course. Looking in my side view mirror I see that the outside rear wheels are badly tipped, top in, bottom out. Yeah, OK, I guess that's the way they were designed, but I'm wondering, is that the movement that bends the bogie pins? If not, how exactly do they get bent?
>
> It's been recommended that after getting next to
> the curb I pull straight forward a few feet, then back, to let the
> wheels get realigned. Is that a good thing to do, or not really needed? If I don't do that, and leave the wheel tipped, will that contribute to bending the bogies? And finally, am I understanding correctly that the True Tracks will eliminate that kind of movement?
...
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Ken Henderson
Americus, GA
www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
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| Re: [GMCnet] Road Wonder [message #110007 is a reply to message #110003] |
Tue, 28 December 2010 13:14 |
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After making a sharp turn to park, I always pull forward several feet
(straight) and back up to do just that -- get the rear end out of a
stressful situation. How much it helps I couldn't say. I just know it helps.
By the way, turn any truck/bus/motorhome with tandem axles on the rear tight
and look at the rear end. The tires want to move just like the rear end of
the GMC -- fronts one way and rears the other. It's just basic physics. The
pivot point is the imaginary X between the four tires. The tires and
everything else has to give and take.
Byron Songer
1978 Royale by Coachmen
Louisville, KY
Personal - http://web.me.com/bnsonger
Eastern States - http://www.gmceast.com
Jay Rabe wrote:
>
> It's been recommended that after getting next to
> the curb I pull straight forward a few feet, then back, to let the
> wheels get realigned. Is that a good thing to do, or not really needed? If I
> don't do that, and leave the wheel tipped, will that contribute to bending the
> bogies? And finally, am I understanding correctly that the True Tracks will
> eliminate that kind of movement?
>
> Thanks
>
> J
> 76 PB
> Portland, OR
>
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--
Byron Songer
Full-timing to enjoy the USA
Former owner but still an admirer
GMC paint schemes at -
http://www.songerconsulting.net
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| Re: [GMCnet] Road Wonder [message #110008 is a reply to message #110006] |
Tue, 28 December 2010 13:17 |
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ljdavick
Messages: 3548
Registered: March 2007
Location: Fremont, CA
Karma: -3
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My beloved PO (really!) installed some of Marvin Peck's stuff - reduction gears, Power Master (since replaced with stock), and tru-tracks.
I'll admit that I've never driven another coach more than a few feet and I was expecting to experience the tail wag on the freeway but I never have. Although I still have 16.5" wheels it drives nicely for me. I hesitate to drive anyone else's coach for fear of becoming disappointed with my rig!
Larry Davick
On Dec 28, 2010, at 11:05 AM, Desmond <980@opg.org> wrote:
> I experienced the wandering last night on our way home from Chico.
>
> Over the backroads everything was fine but when I got out on to the freeway and got up to 65 for a little ways the coach started to wag it's tail a bit. It felt a lot like a crosswind but it wasn't windy outside.
>
> Pulled over at a truck stop and checked the air pressure. The brand new tires were set at 80 PSI at the shop, but they were all warmed up and around 85. I knocked them all down a bit and leveled an airbag that was riding about an inch low. We had a smooth ride the rest of the way.
>
> The PO got his tires at Costco. Supposedly they were filled with nitrogen, which is standard there. I never had tire pressure issues with them. The tire shop I've known for years (out of the way in my hometown, but had my tires in stock) say's that nitrogen doesn't make a big difference but I think I disagree. I need to find a place to get this done.
>
> Desmond
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Larry Davick
A Mystery Machine
1976(ish) Palm Beach
Fremont, Ca
Howell EFI + EBL + Electronic Dizzy
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| Re: [GMCnet] Road Wonder [message #110019 is a reply to message #110006] |
Tue, 28 December 2010 15:44 |
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mike miller
Messages: 3576
Registered: February 2004
Location: Hillsboro, Oregon
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| 980 wrote on Tue, 28 December 2010 11:05 |
... Supposedly they were filled with nitrogen, which is standard there. I never had tire pressure issues with them. The tire shop I've known for years (out of the way in my hometown, but had my tires in stock) say's that nitrogen doesn't make a big difference but I think I disagree. I need to find a place to get this done.
|
Regular compressed air is almost 80% nitrogen (N2). The main benefit of N2 is the reduction in moisture. IMHO; If you are not using high performance aircraft or a space shuttle, it isn't worth any added expense. Now if it doesn't add anything to the cost... I would not say "no."
Mike Miller -- Hillsboro, OR -- on the Black list
(#2)`78 23' Birchaven Rear Bath -- (#3)`77 23' Birchaven Side Bath
More Sidekicks than GMC's and a late model Malibu called 'Boo'
http://m000035.blogspot.com
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| Re: [GMCnet] Road Wonder [message #110030 is a reply to message #110006] |
Tue, 28 December 2010 16:25 |
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USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
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Senior Member |
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Desmond,
Blasphemy! Les Coughlin of Cinnabar would be aghast if he read you dared to
drop the pressure from 85 down below that pressure! Don't you know doing so
makes you a danger to yourself and everybody else on the road! ;-)
The nitrogen issue has been discussed here a number of times and as with
just about everything else discussed here there are proponents and
opponents.
Personally I reckon it is more important to check your tire pressure
frequently to make sure it is where you want it to be than what you fill the
tires with.
Regards,
Rob M.
USAussie - Downunder
-----Original Message-----
From: gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org
[mailto:gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of Desmond
Sent: Wednesday, December 29, 2010 6:06 AM
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Road Wonder
I experienced the wandering last night on our way home from Chico.
Over the backroads everything was fine but when I got out on to the freeway
and got up to 65 for a little ways the coach started to wag it's tail a bit.
It felt a lot like a crosswind but it wasn't windy outside.
Pulled over at a truck stop and checked the air pressure. The brand new
tires were set at 80 PSI at the shop, but they were all warmed up and around
85. I knocked them all down a bit and leveled an airbag that was riding
about an inch low. We had a smooth ride the rest of the way.
The PO got his tires at Costco. Supposedly they were filled with nitrogen,
which is standard there. I never had tire pressure issues with them. The
tire shop I've known for years (out of the way in my hometown, but had my
tires in stock) say's that nitrogen doesn't make a big difference but I
think I disagree. I need to find a place to get this done.
Desmond
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Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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| Re: Road Wonder [message #110061 is a reply to message #109821] |
Tue, 28 December 2010 21:32 |
RadioActiveGMC
Messages: 1020
Registered: November 2010
Location: Hot AZ desert
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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changed tire pressure to 60 lbs today all round. I'm guessing having the tire pressure to high over exaggerated the problem. However the problem is still there. Just not as pronounced. I'm still guessing its something in the rear.
***"Gettin There"-1973 23' Sequoia-
Michael, Onans smell, "Go solar/wind power!"
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