Re: [GMCnet] Step by Step Procedure Was: Road Wonder [message #109910 is a reply to message #109867] |
Mon, 27 December 2010 15:32 |
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USAussie
Messages: 15912 Registered: July 2007 Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
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Mike,
Thanks! Title your folder - "GMC steering inspection for Dummies." ;-)
Byron Songer has asked me if it's OK to post on the GMCES website and I told
him it was OK.
I suggested that he wait a few days to see if we get any comments. So far
I've only received accolades, I'd like to have some critics find weak points
in it so we can make it better.
If nothing critical comes in by Thursday I'm going to solicit them.
Regards,
Rob
-----Original Message-----
From: gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org
[mailto:gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of Mike Miller
Sent: Tuesday, December 28, 2010 2:01 AM
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Subject: [GMCnet] Step by Step Procedure Was: Road Wonder
Rob,
Very good write-up. I have captured the text and the picture. Everything
is clear when you look at both. Also good for learning the names of the
major parts.
This is something good that should be captured on the "info" web sites.
I plan on using your procedure to evaluate parts on all three of my coaches.
The basic idea is (with in reason): 1) Best parts go on my current "using"
coach. 2)second best parts go on the '73. 3) worse parts are used for cores
to get new parts for my "long time keeper" coach.
Thanks a bunch!
Mike
Robert Mueller wrote on Sun, 26 December 2010 22:32
> <<< snipped >>> ...
>
> 5) The following is a step by step procedure to check for play in the
> steering system that could contribute to the amount of play in the
steering
> wheel starting at the bottom of the steering column and working your way
out
> to both the wheels. YES it is long and YES it's going to take you some
time
> to go through it but when you're done you will KNOW where there is play in
> the system and how it is effecting your steering. You will note I have
> instructed you to record the amount of relative motion of two areas quite
> often throughout this procedure, you may find it easier to put your
fingers
> on the parts I've noted to feel the play. PLEASE BE careful not to get
your
> fingers pinched! If your assistant only moves the steering wheel an inch
or
> two each direction that is unlikely to happen but still be careful!
>
> I have scanned and posted an annotated copy of the page out of the Parts
> Book 78Z so you can locate each of the areas.
>
> http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/showphoto.php?photo=37249
>
> The circled numbers on the photo relate to the step numbers in the text
> below.
>
> 1) Have an assistant sit in the driver's seat and start the engine.
>
> 2) Open the driver's side hood
>
> 3) Direct your attention to the end of the Steering Column where the CV
> joint attaches. Have your assistant turn the wheel a small amount (inch or
> two) to the left and then back to the right. Watch/feel for relative
motion
> between the end of the steering column housing and the shaft. There is a
> bearing/retainer/adapter (Ref 78Z Page 16-8/9 Keys 31/33/34) in the end of
> the housing that if any of them failed it would allow the column to move.
> Record your findings.
>
> 4) Direct your attention to the top and bottom of the CV joint below the
end
> of the steering column. Have your assistant move the steering wheel left
and
> right. Watch/feel for relative motion between the upper and lower section
of
> the CV joint. The top and bottom should rotate the same amount. If the top
> and bottom do not move in unison that's play and depending on how much it
> may be unacceptable. Record your findings.
>
> 5) Direct your attention to the Shaft assembly below the CV joint. Have
your
> assistant move the steering wheel left and right. Watch/feel for relative
> motion between the blue section and the housing it slides into below it.
If
> the blue section moves inside the housing that's play and may be
> unacceptable depending on how much it moves. Record your findings.
>
> 6) Direct your attention to the universal joint at the bottom of the
housing
> the blue shaft slides into. Have your assistant move the steering wheel
left
> and right. Watch/feel for relative motion between the upper and lower
> sections of the universal joint. Once again the two sections should move
in
> unison. It is not uncommon for the bolt that holds the lower section to
the
> steering box spline not to be tight enough which allows the lower part to
> move. Record your findings.
>
> 7) Direct your attention to the input shaft of Steering Box and output
shaft
> of the Steering Box that the Pitman Arm is attached to. Have your
assistant
> move the steering wheel left and right. Watch/feel for relative motion
> between the input and output shaft of the steering box. They should move
in
> unison. Record your findings. Note: you may have to be under the GMC to
> perform this step.
>
> The following steps will have to be done from under the GMC. You may not
be
> able to crawl under it far enough to check the items properly without
> jacking it up. If I am correct jack up the front end just high enough to
> provide access leaving the tires in contact with the ground to provide
> resistance to turning. As always use jack stands, make sure the GMC is in
> Park, the hand brake is on and the rear wheels are chocked.
>
> 8) Direct your attention to the Tie Rod End on the Drag Link that attaches
> it to the Pitman arm. Have your assistant move the steering wheel left and
> right. Watch/feel for lateral motion between ball/socket and the shaft of
> the Tie Rod End. Record your findings.
>
> 9) Direct your attention to the Tie Rod End on the Drag Link that attaches
> to the Relay Lever. Have your assistant move the steering wheel left and
> right. Watch/feel for lateral motion between ball/socket and the shaft of
> the Tie Rod End. Record your findings.
>
> 10) Direct your attention to the Relay Lever pivot point where it attaches
> to the frame cross member. Have your assistant move the steering wheel
left
> and right. Watch/feel for relative motion between Relay Lever and the
cross
> member. Record your findings. Note: a worn pivot point will allow the
Relay
> Lever to move up and down on or rock front to back like a see saw.
>
> 11) Direct your attention to the ball and socket on the Relay Lever that
> attaches it to the Relay Rod. Have your assistant move the steering wheel
> left and right. Watch/feel for lateral motion between ball/socket and the
> shaft. Record your findings.
>
> 12) Direct your attention to the ball and socket of the Tie Rod End on the
> Tie Rod that connects the Relay Rod to the Driver Side Knuckle at the
Relay
> Rod end. Have your assistant move the steering wheel left and right.
> Watch/feel for lateral motion between ball/socket and the shaft of the Tie
> Rod End. Record your findings.
>
> 13) Direct your attention to the ball and socket on the Tie Rod end on the
> Tie Rod that connects the Relay Rod to the Driver Side Knuckle at the
Driver
> Side Knuckle end. Have your assistant move the steering wheel left and
> right. Watch/feel for lateral motion between ball/socket and the shaft of
> the Tie Rod End. Record your findings.
>
> 14) Direct your attention to the bolt and bushing that attach the Idler
Arm
> to the frame cross member. Have your assistant move the steering wheel
left
> and right. Watch/feel for lateral motion between Idler Arm and the cross
> member. Note: a worn Idler Arm bushing/bolt will rise and fall as the
> steering wheel is turned left and right. Record your findings.
>
> 15) Direct your attention to the ball and socket on the end of the Idler
Arm
> that attaches to the Relay Rod. Have your assistant move the steering
wheel
> left and right. Watch/feel for lateral motion between ball/socket and the
> shaft of the Tie Rod End.
>
> 16) Direct your attention to the ball and socket of the Tie Rod End on the
> Tie Rod that connects the Relay Rod to the Passenger Side Knuckle at the
> Relay Rod end. Have your assistant move the steering wheel left and right.
> Watch/feel for lateral motion between ball/socket and the shaft of the Tie
> Rod End. Record your findings.
>
> 17) Direct your attention to the ball and socket of the Tie Rod End on the
> Tie Rod that attaches the Relay Rod to the Passenger Side Knuckle at the
> Knuckle end. Have your assistant move the steering wheel left and right.
> Watch/feel for lateral motion between ball/socket and the shaft of the Tie
> Rod End. Record your findings.
>
> Regards,
> Rob M.
> USAussie - Downunder
>
> -----Original Message-----
> << snipped >>
--
Mike Miller
#01 - `73 26' X Painted D. "The Spare"
#02 - `78 23' Birchaven Rear Bath "The User"
#03 - `77 23' Birchaven Side Bath "The Keeper"
Hillsboro, OR
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Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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Re: Road Wonder [message #109918 is a reply to message #109821] |
Mon, 27 December 2010 17:27 |
RadioActiveGMC
Messages: 1020 Registered: November 2010 Location: Hot AZ desert
Karma: 0
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Aren't truetracks wheel extenders?
***"Gettin There"-1973 23' Sequoia-
Michael, Onans smell, "Go solar/wind power!"
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Re: Road Wander [message #109927 is a reply to message #109870] |
Mon, 27 December 2010 17:56 |
fred v
Messages: 999 Registered: April 2006 Location: pensacola, fl.
Karma: 0
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Mr.RadioActive wrote on Mon, 27 December 2010 09:18 | Fred I'm going to try the tire pressure to get started. To be honest my gut feeling is its something like that. I'm sure my front end isn't as tight as it should be, yet a few mechanics now have said it looks good. (not gmc mechanics but no one went OMG its horrible, I'm sure I have some wear at 68,000 miles) I've hd a buddy put it in the air and see if there was a lot of play. But he only did a very basic check heling me out.
Or its in the rear. Spectrac did look at the rear and said it was fine. And Jerry assured me he was a GMC specialist. But for some odd reason yet another gut feeling and it maybe unfair to type it on a web so take it for face value they seemed a little lazy. They knew I was trying to get work done on a budget, but they didn't seem to really go deep doing any inspection. I asked about the rear end and they said it looked just fine. But who knows! Perhaps it was my fault I did tell them try to keep the bill down and they respected that.
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did they check the toe in on the rear? i've not seen a GMC that had the correct camber on the rear but i think that is less important.
Fred V
'77 Royale RB 455
P'cola, Fl
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Re: Road Wonder [message #109928 is a reply to message #109821] |
Mon, 27 December 2010 17:57 |
RadioActiveGMC
Messages: 1020 Registered: November 2010 Location: Hot AZ desert
Karma: 0
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I'll be reading every post on that thread carefully.
***"Gettin There"-1973 23' Sequoia-
Michael, Onans smell, "Go solar/wind power!"
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Re: Road Wander [message #109929 is a reply to message #109893] |
Mon, 27 December 2010 18:00 |
fred v
Messages: 999 Registered: April 2006 Location: pensacola, fl.
Karma: 0
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Mr.RadioActive wrote on Mon, 27 December 2010 13:03 | Ok, someone asked about alignment specs. Heres what Spectrac said...
LEFT BEFORE...
Camber + 1/2
Caster +1
Toe (blank)
LEFT After
Camber +1/2
Caster +1
Toe +1/16"
RIGHT Before...
Camber +1/4
Caster + 1 1/2
Right After....
Camber +1/4
Caster +1 1/2
Toe +1/16"
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if i'm reading this correct then you have a total of 1/8" toe out on the front wheels. i believe this is excessive. the general opinion is zero to plus 1/16". that could make a big difference.
Fred V
'77 Royale RB 455
P'cola, Fl
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Re: Road Wonder [message #109934 is a reply to message #109928] |
Mon, 27 December 2010 18:28 |
C Boyd
Messages: 2629 Registered: April 2006
Karma: 18
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Mr.RadioActive wrote on Mon, 27 December 2010 18:57 | I'll be reading every post on that thread carefully.
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Michael: Shade tree rear wheel alignment check; use a 5` straight edge across the outside of the rear tires level and below the lug nuts and see how close the 4 touch points are on the rear tires. What usually happens is the rf will be toed in from PO`s hitting curbs. This will cause the coach to crab or wiggle. Usually is evedent by tire wear.
C. Boyd
76 Crestmont
East Tennessee
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Re: Road Wonder [message #109940 is a reply to message #109821] |
Mon, 27 December 2010 20:08 |
RadioActiveGMC
Messages: 1020 Registered: November 2010 Location: Hot AZ desert
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If true tracks aren't wheel extenders what are they? I looked at JimKs site but didn't see a product like that.
***"Gettin There"-1973 23' Sequoia-
Michael, Onans smell, "Go solar/wind power!"
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Re: Road Wonder [message #109943 is a reply to message #109821] |
Mon, 27 December 2010 20:25 |
RadioActiveGMC
Messages: 1020 Registered: November 2010 Location: Hot AZ desert
Karma: 0
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Ahh thank you I was thinking it was a front end part.
***"Gettin There"-1973 23' Sequoia-
Michael, Onans smell, "Go solar/wind power!"
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Re: [GMCnet] Road Wonder [message #109944 is a reply to message #109940] |
Mon, 27 December 2010 20:27 |
jimk
Messages: 6734 Registered: July 2006 Location: Belmont, CA
Karma: 9
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Michael,
It's there on the web site.
Instead of throwing on these options, you need to double check the basics.
Each coach is different in some ways.
To check out for pin play on a rear boggie, one needs to remove the
air from the bag. I have seen shops check for play without deflating
the bag.
Also checking the torsion bar load is seldom done. Checking for height
only is fruitless.
If you want to try a true track, I will let you try one, if you feel
it did not help, I'll give you full refund. Same goes fir the 2" front
spacer.
On Mon, Dec 27, 2010 at 6:08 PM, Michael <radioactive626@msn.com> wrote:
>
>
> If true tracks aren't wheel extenders what are they? I looked at JimKs site but didn't see a product like that.
> --
> 1973 23' Sequoia-
> Michael, Casa Grande, AZ
> _______________________________________________
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--
Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC, Fremont,CA
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
http://www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
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Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
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Re: Road Wonder [message #109945 is a reply to message #109821] |
Mon, 27 December 2010 20:34 |
RadioActiveGMC
Messages: 1020 Registered: November 2010 Location: Hot AZ desert
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JimK thank you I may take you up on it. Im going to try some of the suggestions offered first. I want to make sure I have no suspension issues before I try any upgrades. Once its 100% right I may try then some improvements.
***"Gettin There"-1973 23' Sequoia-
Michael, Onans smell, "Go solar/wind power!"
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Re: Road Wonder [message #109950 is a reply to message #109945] |
Mon, 27 December 2010 21:08 |
Keith V
Messages: 2337 Registered: March 2008 Location: Mounds View,MN
Karma: 0
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Yes, Do all the basics. A rock stock GMC should drive really nice.
True tracks and other things probably make it better, but getting everything tight and balanced is more important.
Not sure if anyone mentioned ride height and equal weights on each axle. Meaning same weight on the left as the right
I have a 75 26' and except for a sticky steering joint is a one handed freeway drive. Semis? What semis, I can barely feel them.
True tracks ARE on list of improvements of couse
Keith Vasilakes
Mounds View. MN
75 ex Royale GMC
ask me about MicroLevel
Cell, 763-732-3419
My427v8@hotmail.com
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Re: Road Wonder [message #109951 is a reply to message #109821] |
Mon, 27 December 2010 21:11 |
RadioActiveGMC
Messages: 1020 Registered: November 2010 Location: Hot AZ desert
Karma: 0
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Semis blow me off the road! lol Even pickup trucks can.
***"Gettin There"-1973 23' Sequoia-
Michael, Onans smell, "Go solar/wind power!"
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Re: [GMCnet] Road Wonder [message #109954 is a reply to message #109951] |
Mon, 27 December 2010 21:26 |
Dennis S
Messages: 3046 Registered: November 2005
Karma: 2
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Michael,
A strong sway by passing trucks can be due to high tire pressure and too high rear suspension.
As Fred and others have mentioned -- look to your tire pressure first -- a light 23 ft coach might only want/need 55 front and 45-50 rear. The rear of the coach should -- at normal run height -- be lower than the front. Too high in back can make the coach feel unwieldly and act like it wants to skate.
Start simple and then proceed deliberately..
Dennis Sexton
73 GMC 23 Painted Desert
Germantown, TN
USA
-----Original Message-----
From: Michael <radioactive626@msn.com>
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Sent: Mon, Dec 27, 2010 9:11 pm
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Road Wonder
Semis blow me off the road! lol Even pickup trucks can.
-
973 23' Sequoia-
ichael, Casa Grande, AZ
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MCnet mailing list
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Dennis S
73 Painted Desert 230
Memphis TN Metro
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Re: [GMCnet] Road Wonder [message #109969 is a reply to message #109966] |
Tue, 28 December 2010 01:58 |
Adrien G.
Messages: 474 Registered: May 2008 Location: Burns Flat, OK 73624
Karma: 1
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Robert and Mike,
An owner should make a sharp turn and stop without straightning out, get out and look at the distorsion that is incurred on that rear suspension. That happens in city driving.
It's a wonder the the wheels can stay in any kind of alignment.
My few cents worth.
Adrien & Jenny Genesoto
75 Glenbrook (26-3) Mods LS3.70 FD / Reaction Sys / 80mm Front&Intermidiate / Hydroboost / 16" Tires / Frame Rebuild / Interior Rebuild
Yuba City,Ca. Text 530-nine-3-three-3-nine-nine-6
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