Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » Road Wonder
Re: [GMCnet] Road Wonder [message #109860 is a reply to message #109821] |
Mon, 27 December 2010 06:34 |
Steven Ferguson
Messages: 3447 Registered: May 2006
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Mike,
We'll get to gether in Quartzsite. I'll bring some dirty clothes and we'll
take a hard look at everything.
Did SpecTrack check your rear bogey pins? A lot of problems in the front
can be caused by something in the rear
. A good approach to correcting the problems on anything this old is to
start with the theory that everything is worn out. Most of the front
suspension components are from automobiles and are doing double duty
compared to what they were originally designed for, and all have a limited
life span. You've gotten a lot of good advice here so do what you can
before Quartzsite and we'll go from there.
On Sun, Dec 26, 2010 at 5:40 PM, Michael <radioactive626@msn.com> wrote:
>
>
> Just got back from a camping trip in the GMC. 99.9% problem free. Which is
> a huge success for us! lol
> Have a question for the experts about road wonder.
> A little history....I can't describe this well but I'll try my best. I HAD
> horrible steering. I mean to the point it was simply dangerous to drive
> this. It was all over the road. Took it to Spectrac (a suspension company
> for those not in AZ) and it needed a front bearings and (1) knuckle. They
> also said my gear box was way, way over tight they corrected it.
> Much of the problem ended and its much safer to drive. But highway driving
> in the GMC is something I'd rather never have to do. I avoid it at all cost
> if possible.
> The GMC bounces, sways, swags and seems like a marshmallow driving on the
> highway. It kinda feels like the steering and body want to do go two
> different directions at times. Big trucks air pushes me really bad, even a
> large pickup trucks air can do it as well (not a bad of course)
> It seems to be a endless game of steer to the left, steer to the right.
> Then the body rolls to the left the body rolls to the right.
> I have my air ride disconnected and Spectrac taught me how to set the ride
> height using the frame in the back behind the tires. I've checked it, double
> checked it, ran it alittle high on the airbags, and it alittle low it
> doesn't seem to be related.
> I have used 80lbs of air in the tires, 70 lbs and its the same.
> It has new KYB shocks I installed from one of the gmc sites they mailed
> them to me so Im sure they are the correct ones. Spectrac said the rear
> bearings were fine.
> I did notice that when driving straight if I move the wheel to the left or
> right it has a good amount of play. But keep in mind I've never really drove
> anything from this era.
> Just not sure what to check!? Any ideas???!
> --
> 1973 23' Sequoia-
> Michael, Casa Grande, AZ
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--
Steve Ferguson
Sierra Vista, AZ
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Re: Road Wander [message #109864 is a reply to message #109821] |
Mon, 27 December 2010 08:49 |
RadioActiveGMC
Messages: 1020 Registered: November 2010 Location: Hot AZ desert
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Steve I'm not going to Quartsite but will be in Pinal Co Fairgrounds in Jan. Your still planning on going??? When it "Quartsite" I looked on the Jet Setters site but didn't see anything.
Rob M. Don't know what to write!~ THANK YOU! Not sure I'm qualified to do all that but heck I've been learning a lot and will give it a try!
You guys have given me a lot of great info. I'm going to try to collect some info as I move ahead here and report back with the findings.
***"Gettin There"-1973 23' Sequoia-
Michael, Onans smell, "Go solar/wind power!"
[Updated on: Mon, 27 December 2010 09:12] Report message to a moderator
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Re: Road Wonder [message #109866 is a reply to message #109831] |
Mon, 27 December 2010 08:59 |
fred v
Messages: 999 Registered: April 2006 Location: pensacola, fl.
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Mr.RadioActive wrote on Sun, 26 December 2010 19:47 | I'm going to try to correct the tire pressure cause now that you all are saying this is does make sense.
Its hard to describe but now that I'm thinking about it it does fell like bouncy bounce tires and steering to correct it makes it "hula hula"! Spectrac said they did the cost effective fixes (I did tell them I was on a budget) but implied more could be done.
I hope to see Steve F in Casa Grande in January. If the bouncy bounce stuff doesn't get better with tire pressure I may ask him if he could drive it or look at it and give me advise. I've never driven another GMC before so I don't know what a correct one feels like. But I'm 99% sure my GMC is not driving correctly. Its much better then in the past but still "getting there"
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someone said "the GMC was the best driving coach ever made and there is no reason it cannot be brought back to that condition".
there are a lot of parts that can have a little play that all adds up to a loose front end. also the center wheel pins can have play that will try to steer the rear end back and forth causing you to work the steering wheel.
Fred V
'77 Royale RB 455
P'cola, Fl
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Re: Road Wonder [message #109869 is a reply to message #109821] |
Mon, 27 December 2010 09:10 |
fred v
Messages: 999 Registered: April 2006 Location: pensacola, fl.
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guys, did you notice that this is a 23' coach!!! these weigh 1000Lb. less than the 26' so his tire pressures are really high.
Fred V
'77 Royale RB 455
P'cola, Fl
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Re: Road Wander [message #109870 is a reply to message #109821] |
Mon, 27 December 2010 09:18 |
RadioActiveGMC
Messages: 1020 Registered: November 2010 Location: Hot AZ desert
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Fred I'm going to try the tire pressure to get started. To be honest my gut feeling is its something like that. I'm sure my front end isn't as tight as it should be, yet a few mechanics now have said it looks good. (not gmc mechanics but no one went OMG its horrible, I'm sure I have some wear at 68,000 miles) I've hd a buddy put it in the air and see if there was a lot of play. But he only did a very basic check heling me out.
Or its in the rear. Spectrac did look at the rear and said it was fine. And Jerry assured me he was a GMC specialist. But for some odd reason yet another gut feeling and it maybe unfair to type it on a web so take it for face value they seemed a little lazy. They knew I was trying to get work done on a budget, but they didn't seem to really go deep doing any inspection. I asked about the rear end and they said it looked just fine. But who knows! Perhaps it was my fault I did tell them try to keep the bill down and they respected that.
***"Gettin There"-1973 23' Sequoia-
Michael, Onans smell, "Go solar/wind power!"
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Re: Road Wonder [message #109871 is a reply to message #109831] |
Mon, 27 December 2010 09:44 |
George Beckman
Messages: 1085 Registered: October 2008 Location: Colfax, CA
Karma: 11
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Mr.RadioActive wrote on Sun, 26 December 2010 17:47 | I've never driven another GMC before so I don't know what a correct one feels like. But I'm 99% sure my GMC is not driving correctly. Its much better then in the past but still "getting there"
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You are right to stay with this. GMCs can drive like a dream. Our 26 is beautiful at road speeds; as easy as our Accord. I can't tell you what I did, because I drove it home that way. I can tell you that changing from 16 1/2 to 16 tires made no difference. I run 70 in the front and 65 in back, which from the thread sounds a bit high, so that is not it. But stay with it because they don't all wander and wallow around.
How much side play is there in the back bogies?
'74 Eleganza, SE, Howell + EBL
Best Wishes,
George
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Re: [GMCnet] Road Wonder [message #109878 is a reply to message #109871] |
Mon, 27 December 2010 10:58 |
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hnielsen2
Messages: 1434 Registered: February 2004 Location: Alpine CA
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George and All;
We run the same way.
My wife and I drive ours at 65-70 one handed.
Susie likes it at around 60-65
Handles very well.
On the open road we drive one handed quite often.
We will switch over to Steve's bushings as soon as I get another project out
of the way.
74 Canyon Lands
Howell FI, Jim B's Cam , Roller Rockers with up graded push rods,
Patterson's Ignition, Dyno Shop.
Not Quite Stock.
This is the 26' Hot Rod with Plumbing!
All of this and still we get 9-10 MPG on the open road.
Thanks to input from the two Jim's
Happy New Year to All
Howard
Alpine CA
----- Original Message -----
From: "George Beckman" <gbeckman@pggp.com>
To: <gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org>
Sent: Monday, December 27, 2010 7:44 AM
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Road Wonder
>
>
> Mr.RadioActive wrote on Sun, 26 December 2010 17:47
>> I've never driven another GMC before so I don't know what a correct one
>> feels like. But I'm 99% sure my GMC is not driving correctly. Its much
>> better then in the past but still "getting there"
>
>
> You are right to stay with this. GMCs can drive like a dream. Our 26 is
> beautiful at road speeds; as easy as our Accord. I can't tell you what I
> did, because I drove it home that way. I can tell you that changing from
> 16 1/2 to 16 tires made no difference. I run 70 in the front and 65 in
> back, which from the thread sounds a bit high, so that is not it. But
> stay with it because they don't all wander and wallow around.
>
> How much side play is there in the back bogies?
> --
> '74 Eleganza, SE, Howell + EBL
> Best Wishes,
> George
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All is well with my Lord
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Re: Road Wonder [message #109885 is a reply to message #109821] |
Mon, 27 December 2010 12:16 |
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RF_Burns
Messages: 2277 Registered: June 2008 Location: S. Ontario, Canada
Karma: 3
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Micheal,
I believe I have the same road wander as you.
So far:
- steering boxrebuilt twice, once from NAPA, Second time from Racemate
- new tie road ends
- new front stabilizer bar end links
- new Ferguson bushings
- new adjustable drag link
- New steering intermediate shaft
- New relay arm and idler arm twice
- First time fron Cinnibar
- Second units from Dave Lenzi
- New steering column bearing and adaptor
- rear idler arms pins and bushings
- new KYB shocks front and rear
- front end alignment 3 times
- 6 wheel alignemnt and hight adjustment (Cinnibar)
- True Track system added
- Rear bearings checked and repacked.
Its much better than when I bought it, but I would not say its anywhere near a one-hand steer. A number of of the steering parts were required for the initial Safety Check when I bought it.
Everything has made it maginally better. the most improvement was seen when I replaced the Cinnibar relay and Idler arms with Dave Lenzi units, and the steering box rebuild from Racemate.
Still feels like the back could be where my problem is, but maybe not, not much left to change... I've even changed the steering wheel! ..lol
Bruce Hislop
ON Canada
77PB, 455 Dick P. rebuilt, DynamicEFI EBL EFI & ESC. 1 ton front end
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/showphoto.php?photo=29001
My Staff says I never listen to them, or something like that
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Re: [GMCnet] Road Wonder [message #109891 is a reply to message #109885] |
Mon, 27 December 2010 12:49 |
Charles
Messages: 455 Registered: January 2004
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Bruce,
If your back end is not loose( bad pins and bushings)
and rear alignment is straight then you need to consider
True Tracks on at least the mid wheels. That was
probably one of the best up grades I have done to my
coach. It looks like you have just about covered everything else.
Charles
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Charles Wersal
Duncanville, Texas
26 foot 1975 Glenbrook
Pandora's Box
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Re: Road Wander [message #109893 is a reply to message #109821] |
Mon, 27 December 2010 13:03 |
RadioActiveGMC
Messages: 1020 Registered: November 2010 Location: Hot AZ desert
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Ok, someone asked about alignment specs. Heres what Spectrac said...
LEFT BEFORE...
Camber + 1/2
Caster +1
Toe (blank)
LEFT After
Camber +1/2
Caster +1
Toe +1/16"
RIGHT Before...
Camber +1/4
Caster + 1 1/2
Right After....
Camber +1/4
Caster +1 1/2
Toe +1/16"
***"Gettin There"-1973 23' Sequoia-
Michael, Onans smell, "Go solar/wind power!"
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Re: Road Wonder [message #109895 is a reply to message #109821] |
Mon, 27 December 2010 13:09 |
RadioActiveGMC
Messages: 1020 Registered: November 2010 Location: Hot AZ desert
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I forgot Spectrac did this service to my GMC....
Replaced..... Inner Seal, Right Frt Knuckle, Oil Seal, BCA Bearing x2
"replace wheel bearings at steer axle with new races. Replace spindle housing"
***"Gettin There"-1973 23' Sequoia-
Michael, Onans smell, "Go solar/wind power!"
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Re: [GMCnet] Road Wander [message #109897 is a reply to message #109893] |
Mon, 27 December 2010 13:47 |
James Hupy
Messages: 6806 Registered: May 2010
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Michael, can we assume from those specs that you only had the front end
alingment? If so, there are 4 more wheels that need alignment also. The
difference between front end and total ( 6 wheel) is probably where your
problems lie. Just an educated guess on my part without being there.
Jim Hupy
Salem, Or
78 GMC Royale 403
On Mon, Dec 27, 2010 at 11:03 AM, Michael <radioactive626@msn.com> wrote:
>
>
> Ok, someone asked about alignment specs. Heres what Spectrac said...
> LEFT BEFORE...
> Camber + 1/2
> Caster +1
> Toe (blank)
>
> LEFT After
> Camber +1/2
> Caster +1
> Toe +1/16"
>
> RIGHT Before...
> Camber +1/4
> Caster + 1 1/2
>
> Right After....
> Camber +1/4
> Caster +1 1/2
> Toe +1/16"
> --
> 1973 23' Sequoia-
> Michael, Casa Grande, AZ
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> List Information and Subscription Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
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Re: Road Wonder [message #109898 is a reply to message #109821] |
Mon, 27 December 2010 13:53 |
RadioActiveGMC
Messages: 1020 Registered: November 2010 Location: Hot AZ desert
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humm interesting. they said they did do a 6 wheel alignment but I dont see any info on the other 4 wheels. I think Im going to call them.
Just got off the phone with Jerry.... the owner and gmc guy...
Hes going to have a conference call with my service advisor and duscuss why the rear end isnt mentioned in my paperwork.
***"Gettin There"-1973 23' Sequoia-
Michael, Onans smell, "Go solar/wind power!"
[Updated on: Mon, 27 December 2010 14:04] Report message to a moderator
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Re: [GMCnet] Road Wander [message #109902 is a reply to message #109897] |
Mon, 27 December 2010 14:28 |
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How are the tires wearing on the rear? Visual and manual (with hand rubbing
over the tread all around) may reveal something.
Byron Songer
1978 Royale by Coachmen
Louisville, KY
Personal - http://web.me.com/bnsonger
Eastern States - http://www.gmceast.com
James Hupy wrote:
> Michael, can we assume from those specs that you only had the front end
> alingment? If so, there are 4 more wheels that need alignment also. The
> difference between front end and total ( 6 wheel) is probably where your
> problems lie. Just an educated guess on my part without being there.
> Jim Hupy
> Salem, Or
> 78 GMC Royale 403
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--
Byron Songer
Full-timing to enjoy the USA
Former owner but still an admirer
GMC paint schemes at -
http://www.songerconsulting.net
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Re: Road Wonder [message #109904 is a reply to message #109821] |
Mon, 27 December 2010 14:40 |
RadioActiveGMC
Messages: 1020 Registered: November 2010 Location: Hot AZ desert
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To be honest I haven't noticed uneven wear on the tires at all front or back. I just changed them (they were dry rotted but showed no uneven wear).
***"Gettin There"-1973 23' Sequoia-
Michael, Onans smell, "Go solar/wind power!"
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Re: Road Wonder [message #109906 is a reply to message #109895] |
Mon, 27 December 2010 15:12 |
C Boyd
Messages: 2629 Registered: April 2006
Karma: 18
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Mr.RadioActive wrote on Mon, 27 December 2010 14:09 | I forgot Spectrac did this service to my GMC....
Replaced..... Inner Seal, Right Frt Knuckle, Oil Seal, BCA Bearing x2
"replace wheel bearings at steer axle with new races. Replace spindle housing"
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Sir: I would ask where they got the RF Knuckle. They are GMC only. The car ones appear to be the same except the lower ball joint hole is a different angle. I would also ask if the bearings came in a set with the spacer?
It seems the specs are the same before and after?? Maybe they didn`t do anything except put it on the machine?? I would have asked for 0 camber, 0 toe, and as much caster as he could get. In my opinion more caster would have helped.
C. Boyd
76 Crestmont
East Tennessee
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Re: [GMCnet] Road Wonder [message #109907 is a reply to message #109895] |
Mon, 27 December 2010 15:19 |
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USAussie
Messages: 15912 Registered: July 2007 Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
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G'day,
Anybody got any idea what Spectrac is talking about:
"BCA bearing x2"
Is BCA a brand?
"replace wheel bearings steer axle with new races."
steer axle = front wheels
I sure hope they didn't just change the races!
"Replace spindle housing"
HUH?
As far as I know the front wheel bearings and spacer come as a set and
Timken Set 23 are the "only" bearings to use.
I know of one long time GMC'er who had his bearings replaced with Japanese
ones only to have them both fail prematurely. IIRC it took out the hubs and
knuckles too.
Regards,
Rob M.
USAussie - Downunder
-----Original Message-----
From: gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org
[mailto:gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of Michael
Sent: Tuesday, December 28, 2010 6:09 AM
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Road Wonder
I forgot Spectrac did this service to my GMC....
Replaced..... Inner Seal, Right Frt Knuckle, Oil Seal, BCA Bearing x2
"replace wheel bearings at steer axle with new races. Replace spindle
housing"
--
1973 23' Sequoia-
Michael, Casa Grande, AZ
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Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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Re: Road Wander [message #109908 is a reply to message #109821] |
Mon, 27 December 2010 15:35 |
RadioActiveGMC
Messages: 1020 Registered: November 2010 Location: Hot AZ desert
Karma: 0
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Mark at Spectrac wasn't as pleasant with this call to him as previous calls. For some reason he was really in "argue" mode. I asked him about the rear suspention and he said they didn't do align it. Anyway when I get a chance I'll have to bring it up there for them to check it which he said he would. But he did say "what then if it comes out in alignment" I said then atleast I'll know it is correct.
He tried over and over to blame it on me. But how he recalls our conversations in the past and how I recall them are totally different.
***"Gettin There"-1973 23' Sequoia-
Michael, Onans smell, "Go solar/wind power!"
[Updated on: Mon, 27 December 2010 15:47] Report message to a moderator
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Re: [GMCnet] Road Wonder [message #109909 is a reply to message #109906] |
Mon, 27 December 2010 15:32 |
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USAussie
Messages: 15912 Registered: July 2007 Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
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Chuck,
My thoughts exactly! I just sent a message asking about what Spectrac did.
Keep in mind that Michael's coach is a '73 and unless you fit offset
bushings in the upper control arms you ain't gonna get a lot of caster!
Regards,
Rob M.
USAussie - Downunder
-----Original Message-----
From: gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org
[mailto:gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of Charles Boyd
Sent: Tuesday, December 28, 2010 8:13 AM
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Road Wonder
Sir: I would ask where they got the RF Knuckle. They are GMC only. The
car ones appear to be the same except the lower ball joint hole is a
different angle. I would also ask if the bearings came in a set with the
spacer?
It seems the specs are the same before and after?? Maybe they didn`t do
anything except put it on the machine?? I would have asked for 0 camber, 0
toe, and as much caster as he could get. In my opinion more caster would
have helped.
--
C. Boyd
76 Crestmont by Midas
East Tennessee
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Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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