Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » [GMCnet] The Cruz GMC?
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| Re: [GMCnet] The Cruz GMC? [message #109511 is a reply to message #109505] |
Wed, 22 December 2010 20:35   |
David Greenberg
Messages: 222
Registered: September 2010
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I was talking to prior owner, Chuck Camroux, tonite who told me an amusing
story about Cruz. Chuck had spent a small fortune on his coach and he knew
Ray Cruz had looked at tons of GMCs before selecting Chucks. Cruz described
his plans for the coach including a total and muy peso expenditure to redo
the interior. Chuck was put out and asked Cruz why not just go buy some
other coach needing refurbing. Cruz said he liked Chuck's better. It still
didn't make any sense to Chuck or, for that matter, me.
Since Cruz' show (Closer) is coming to an end perhaps he has run out of
money and has taken it back to Kalifornia.
On Wed, Dec 22, 2010 at 9:23 PM, Gary Berry <duallycc@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hey;
>
> The Cruz GMC, can't find it on JimB's site, but does anyone know
> what the status is? Is it almost finished?? Manny, did you see it
> while you were there??
>
> --
> Gary and Diana Berry
> 73 CL Stretch in Wa.
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*David Lee Greenberg
Port St Lucie, FL *
*skype: david.lee.greenberg
Dedicated to the Preservation of the Classic GMC Motorhome
http://GMCmhRegistry.com <http://gmcmhregistry.com/>
http://www.picturetrail.com/gmcregistry*
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| Re: [GMCnet] The Cruz GMC? [message #109512 is a reply to message #109511] |
Wed, 22 December 2010 20:37 |
Dennis S
Messages: 3046
Registered: November 2005
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Gary,
JimB had a picture up the other day -- it is "close" to completion and delivery. Has been for a while.
Dennis
Dennis Sexton
73 GMC
Germantown, TN
USA
-----Original Message-----
From: David Greenberg <gmcmotorhomeregistry@gmail.com>
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Sent: Wed, Dec 22, 2010 8:35 pm
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] The Cruz GMC?
I was talking to prior owner, Chuck Camroux, tonite who told me an amusing
tory about Cruz. Chuck had spent a small fortune on his coach and he knew
ay Cruz had looked at tons of GMCs before selecting Chucks. Cruz described
is plans for the coach including a total and muy peso expenditure to redo
he interior. Chuck was put out and asked Cruz why not just go buy some
ther coach needing refurbing. Cruz said he liked Chuck's better. It still
idn't make any sense to Chuck or, for that matter, me.
ince Cruz' show (Closer) is coming to an end perhaps he has run out of
oney and has taken it back to Kalifornia.
On Wed, Dec 22, 2010 at 9:23 PM, Gary Berry <duallycc@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hey;
The Cruz GMC, can't find it on JimB's site, but does anyone know
what the status is? Is it almost finished?? Manny, did you see it
while you were there??
--
Gary and Diana Berry
73 CL Stretch in Wa.
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David Lee Greenberg
ort St Lucie, FL *
skype: david.lee.greenberg
edicated to the Preservation of the Classic GMC Motorhome
ttp://GMCmhRegistry.com <http://gmcmhregistry.com/>
ttp://www.picturetrail.com/gmcregistry*
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MCnet mailing list
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Dennis S
73 Painted Desert 230
Memphis TN Metro
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| Re: [GMCnet] The Cruz GMC? [message #109513 is a reply to message #109512] |
Wed, 22 December 2010 20:45 |
Dennis S
Messages: 3046
Registered: November 2005
Karma: 2
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Gary,
Well, it wasn't just the other day -- but go to the daily pose and scroll down to Nov 22 for photos of the Cruz GMC and the 23d. On a later day he says the 23d will finish before the Cruz machine.
http://gmccoop.com/dailypose.htm
Dennis Sexton
73 GMC
Germantown, TN
USA
-----Original Message-----
From: Dennis S <dennisfsexton@aol.com>
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Sent: Wed, Dec 22, 2010 8:37 pm
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] The Cruz GMC?
ary,
JimB had a picture up the other day -- it is "close" to completion and delivery.
as been for a while.
Dennis
ennis Sexton
3 GMC
ermantown, TN
SA
-----Original Message-----
rom: David Greenberg <gmcmotorhomeregistry@gmail.com>
o: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
ent: Wed, Dec 22, 2010 8:35 pm
ubject: Re: [GMCnet] The Cruz GMC?
was talking to prior owner, Chuck Camroux, tonite who told me an amusing
ory about Cruz. Chuck had spent a small fortune on his coach and he knew
y Cruz had looked at tons of GMCs before selecting Chucks. Cruz described
s plans for the coach including a total and muy peso expenditure to redo
e interior. Chuck was put out and asked Cruz why not just go buy some
her coach needing refurbing. Cruz said he liked Chuck's better. It still
dn't make any sense to Chuck or, for that matter, me.
nce Cruz' show (Closer) is coming to an end perhaps he has run out of
ney and has taken it back to Kalifornia.
n Wed, Dec 22, 2010 at 9:23 PM, Gary Berry <duallycc@gmail.com> wrote:
Hey;
The Cruz GMC, can't find it on JimB's site, but does anyone know
what the status is? Is it almost finished?? Manny, did you see it
while you were there??
--
Gary and Diana Berry
73 CL Stretch in Wa.
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-
avid Lee Greenberg
rt St Lucie, FL *
kype: david.lee.greenberg
dicated to the Preservation of the Classic GMC Motorhome
tp://GMCmhRegistry.com <http://gmcmhregistry.com/>
tp://www.picturetrail.com/gmcregistry*
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Cnet mailing list
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MCnet mailing list
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Dennis S
73 Painted Desert 230
Memphis TN Metro
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| Re: [GMCnet] The Cruz GMC? [message #109550 is a reply to message #109515] |
Thu, 23 December 2010 07:00 |
Jim Bounds
Messages: 842
Registered: January 2004
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The Duramx projects came about maily because someone wanted something like
that. Both have become to be a huge undertaking, far more than anyone could
have imagined. The Cruz coach is measured on a scale far above what the coach
was when it left Chucks hands. The concept was to produce a diesel machine not
from under a shade tree but built as if a manufacturer would build it today and
that was a very difficuly path to follow. Are these machines cost effective?
No, they are an example of how far something can be taken. Are they neat, thats
their strongest suit. Do not try and compare either to anything out there on
the road. We have over $400,000 in the Cruz 26' coach and over $250,000 in the
23' version. You can call them "mild & wild". I dare say there is no one
reading this that would like to play in this pool! Yes, Chuck's coach was
pretty nice but it's nothing like what it was now!
We are cutting loose the 23' version first. last week I drove it for the first
time and with the fly by wire electronics package spitting out data, the MPG
calculator gave me a first number of 19MPG cruising on the flat road! I have no
doublt that this is a beginning so just how much DOES it cost to idle a diesel
motor to California anyway? It has the power that comes with driving a Duramax
turbo doesel with a 5 speed Allison transmission-- front wheel drive! So far it
is everything we imagined it would be and so much more. Time in producing
something like this I have found is relative. These machines are like nothing
you have ever seen, those that have come by here have seen them.
The Cruz 26' coach (named Cruz'n) will be pulled out after the 23' coach is on
the road and gone. We will take what we learned bringing the 23' version to
it's completion and finish off the 26' with that knowledge. We are very close
on the 23' coach and just back a little on Cruz'n.
Raymonds show may be coming to a close but that has little to do with the scope
of this project. In the end he will own one awesome ride & we will have the
knowledge that came with really putting it out there on the line. Talk about it
all day, impress me by doing it!
There are several segments of the GMC community, of which the GMC Net is but 1.
We focus on the future, not the past. With more and more being put on
efficiency, green and all that-- it's just not cheap to be green or cutting edge
and this is something we are dealing with. Thanks for asking, I am exciting
about drawing this idea to a positive conclusion. These will end up being the
most expensive GMC coaches on the planet and I am good with that. They will
also probably be the only copies of these on the planet too and I'm good with
that. Like I said, you can talk trash all day, I prefer to make it happen.
Jim Bounds
---------------------------------
----- Original Message ----
From: Manny Trovao <mannystrans@gmail.com>
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Sent: Wed, December 22, 2010 10:20:00 PM
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] The Cruz GMC?
On Wed, Dec 22, 2010 at 6:23 PM, Gary Berry <duallycc@gmail.com> wrote:
Manny, did you see it while you were there??
Nothing was done to it while I was there.
There was a push to get the 23' done.
Almost everyday someone was working in it.
Alot of intricate work on the carpet and it looks great.
Maybe Jim will shine in with an update.
--
Manny Trovao
mannystrans@hughes.net
Manny's Trans / Power Drive
San Jose, California
408-937-1583
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| Re: [GMCnet] The Cruz GMC? [message #109626 is a reply to message #109560] |
Fri, 24 December 2010 08:13 |
Jim Bounds
Messages: 842
Registered: January 2004
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You're right, I don;t know where that came from. I reread my post with Nelson
here in the office-- wondered where that come from. Think I was trying to say
we're not sitting on our hands here, it has just taken this much time to bring
these throbbing monsters to life or something. Further proof I really need to
proof read stuff before I hit "send". Pardon my slanted mind!
I have been so focused on the 23d Duramax and in that you really cannot
"multi-task on these things very well-- my mind has been elsewhere. Ken E. will
be flying in on Monday to gather up the 23' version of these machines. Spent
yesterday evening doing the first clean out which is sort of the ritual of the
first vacuum out. The coach is now pointed toward the gate which is also
symbolic that it no longer is locked into the shop and is getting close to
leaving.
I will do a few pics for Ken and people on the exterior and a little on the
insides. Take the fact that it has a huge piece of meat, the interior is ending
up most unique as well. Hot water furnace/ hot fresh water system. A vintage
AC/heat system for the dash, a floorplan that accomodates the huge Allison
transmission and transfer case, a top to bottom full slider driver window, the
dash with it's 40" top. All that and much more had to be sorted out to make
thins thing all work-- and it's still not done! Ken will be with us the last
3-4 days feeling the pain to bring this thng out of the shop. Actually he is
trying to plan a first trip out to the west coast-- no plans as yet but he wants
to see the response of sporting only 2 back wheels (though they are huge 19.5"
aluminum rims. He has already had one shallow thnker tell him he has created an
abortion! If you see this machne at a rally soon, give it it's due. Ken has
had this diesel dream for many years, sold his 23' original coach to have this.
Spent much more time waiting for it and much more money than we thought to have
it. Remeber that when you look at this machine in person, it took much to bring
it to the road.
Anyway, sorry for the previous emissions, was not I was trying to say-- I will
say though that we all here on the net do tend to paint pictures in the sky of
things we might like to see, here is one that really has come to pass. And I
would NOT recommend trying this at home as they say on TV!
Jim Bounds
----------------------------
----- Original Message ----
From: Gary Berry <duallycc@gmail.com>
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Sent: Thu, December 23, 2010 10:31:43 AM
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] The Cruz GMC?
Hey JimB;
Thanks for the update, and the great write-up. I'm sure it's going
to be the most unique and well executed GMC out there. Hope to see it
some day out here on the left coast. Diana and I have just started
watching The Closer, and every time I see Cruz on there it makes me
think of the Cruz-N project. Again, thanks for the update. Wish there
were more public pictures of it. Not sure what you meant by the last
sentence, bur I'm sure it was relevant somehow. Keep up the great
work.
--
Gary and Diana Berry
73 CL Stretch in Wa.
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| Re: [GMCnet] The Cruz GMC? [message #109632 is a reply to message #109505] |
Fri, 24 December 2010 09:41 |
GeorgeRud
Messages: 1380
Registered: February 2007
Location: Chicago, IL
Karma: 0
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Building custom things always takes more time and money than you think it will, especially when they're first time projects. Ask any manufacturer what a prototype costs vs. production pieces once the assembly line is running, and you'll understand.
It's like the racer's old adage, how fast you want to go is only related to how much money you want to spend!
Happy Holidays to all, and let's wish for a healthy and happy New Year!
George Rudawsky
Chicago, IL
75 Palm Beach
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| Re: [GMCnet] The Cruz GMC? [message #109640 is a reply to message #109505] |
Fri, 24 December 2010 12:40 |
Craig Lechowicz
Messages: 541
Registered: October 2006
Location: Waterford, MI
Karma: 0
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Back when I actually worked for a living at a large automaker, those of us in marketing had to pay the bills for our show vehicles. As the one-time "owner" of 2 "beta" level GMC Envoy XUV's (about the 5th or 6th ones built as I recall) I know they were charged out at a cool million apiece. Production ones retailed around $40,000 nicely optioned.
Craig Lechowicz
'77 Kingsley, Waterford, MI
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| Re: [GMCnet] The Cruz GMC? [message #109731 is a reply to message #109640] |
Sat, 25 December 2010 08:52 |
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Matt Colie
Messages: 8547
Registered: March 2007
Location: S.E. Michigan
Karma: 7
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| Craig Lechowicz wrote on Fri, 24 December 2010 13:40 |
Back when I actually worked for a living at a large automaker, those of us in marketing had to pay the bills for our show vehicles. As the one-time "owner" of 2 "beta" level GMC Envoy XUV's (about the 5th or 6th ones built as I recall) I know they were charged out at a cool million apiece. Production ones retailed around $40,000 nicely optioned.
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Craig,
One each megabuck per vehicle is no surprise at all.
Style Driveables (road worthy and look like the expected production) are usually on the books at about 3~400k and that is just exterior "sheet metal" (may include clay and plastic).
Remember T-Rexx? The Three axle Dodge Ram... That was over 1 million for 1 and that was 1995.
When you have been around prototype stuff, this is what you get used to.
While at a contract house, I made the 5.4 out of a 4.6 for Ford. We built 6 engines from mostly stock parts. Only the crank was really special. All the other parts were modified from stock parts and rough castings including the block/crankcase. Those engine were about 80K each.
When at JTE (Jeep/Truck Engineering), I was part of the 4.6 program. Clean paper engine in 204 weeks. All new everything. the Phase 0 build of 80 engines actually yielded 68 operational engines at a final cost of 280k/each.
Memories of big buck prototype years.
Matt
Matt & Mary Colie - Chaumière -'73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan with OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Near DTW - Twixt A2 and Detroit
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| Re: [GMCnet] The Cruz GMC? [message #109739 is a reply to message #109550] |
Sat, 25 December 2010 09:59 |
JimGunther
Messages: 228
Registered: March 2007
Location: West Haven, CT
Karma: 0
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Hey Jim,
I've been enjoying the builds since the beginning. Enormous undertaking with great results.
Being that BOTH were useable-beta models (assuming you wouldn't have to invent the wheel again), I wonder if you'll be willing to build more in the future - at a "somewhat" lower price? Seeing what they ask for one of those Mercedes-based (high center of gravity) deals, something in the high 100;s Low 200's range might not be an outrageous deal.
Merry Christmas to all and stay well!
Jim Gunther
www.LotusV6.com
now former owner - ;(
73 GMC-II 2600
by Explorer
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| Re: [GMCnet] The Cruz GMC? [message #109798 is a reply to message #109739] |
Sun, 26 December 2010 11:21 |
Jim Bounds
Messages: 842
Registered: January 2004
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I would need to lick my wounds for a bit before I would undertake something like
that again-- it really is just such an involved process I think the market for
just such a machine to be quite narrow. No, it would not be "less expensive" no
matter how much experience I have. That experience has taught me that on a
project such as this there are no shortcuts you can take. In other words,
"every armour mounted Hum Vee took piles of $ to outfit". I have to decline
considering another on of these on any budget, you just cannot predetermine what
it will take to do this again. I have been pushed into the understanding of
this phrase from the non funny reality side of it "if you have to ask how much
it will be too expensive". if I've learned anything from these projects I have
learned that. With a rolling chassis rolling off the flat bed at $65,000, you
will find any future sublings born will still carry a pretty hefty price tag. I
would forget entering into building one of these on the cheap or even on a
budget. Devote $500,000 to the project and my guess is you would not be unhappy
and maybe walk away with a few bucks inyour pocket. I'm sorry but I hope this
puts the scope of such a project in more focus.
Just like the "spruce goose" taxed the financial and engineering limits of
Howard Hughes ability, this has been a similar struggle. So what WOULD Howard
have said if PanAm had approached him to build another "spruce goose" copy? As
it was, I think it drove him to dropping a few marbles as it was. I can feel
that pain!
No, my guess is Raymond and Ken both will have truly "one off" machines and like
I said "I can live with that". Of course if you want one of these, lets talk!
Don't tell Janie I said that!
Jim Bounds
-------------------------
----- Original Message ----
From: Jim Gunther <JgmcG@RiskManagementSearch.com>
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Sent: Sat, December 25, 2010 10:59:54 AM
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] The Cruz GMC?
Hey Jim,
I've been enjoying the builds since the beginning. Enormous undertaking with
great results.
Being that BOTH were useable-beta models (assuming you wouldn't have to invent
the wheel again), I wonder if you'll be willing to build more in the future - at
a "somewhat" lower price? Seeing what they ask for one of those Mercedes-based
(high center of gravity) deals, something in the high 100;s Low 200's range
might not be an outrageous deal.
Merry Christmas to all and stay well!
--
Jim Gunther
www.LotusV6.com
now former owner - ;(
73 GMC-II 2600
by Explorer
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| Re: [GMCnet] The Cruz GMC? [message #109799 is a reply to message #109731] |
Sun, 26 December 2010 11:25 |
Jim Bounds
Messages: 842
Registered: January 2004
Karma: 0
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There ya go-- a great analogy and if that prototype was say the turbine car from
Chrysler, what WOULD you do? It was a fast mother but as they also found, there
were a few "unexpected results" from having to use a jet engine as a power
plant. I think some of these machines border on that. Not enough to put them
sqaure in the lap of but there were some issues to work through.
Jim Bounds
----------------------
----- Original Message ----
From: Matt Colie <mcolie@chartermi.net>
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Sent: Sat, December 25, 2010 9:52:33 AM
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] The Cruz GMC?
Craig Lechowicz wrote on Fri, 24 December 2010 13:40
> Back when I actually worked for a living at a large automaker, those of us in
>marketing had to pay the bills for our show vehicles. As the one-time "owner"
>of 2 "beta" level GMC Envoy XUV's (about the 5th or 6th ones built as I recall)
>I know they were charged out at a cool million apiece. Production ones retailed
>around $40,000 nicely optioned.
Craig,
One each megabuck per vehicle is no surprise at all.
Style Driveables (road worthy and look like the expected production) are usually
on the books at about 3~400k and that is just exterior "sheet metal" (may
include clay and plastic).
Remember T-Rexx? The Three axle Dodge Ram... That was over 1 million for 1 and
that was 1995.
When you have been around prototype stuff, this is what you get used to.
While at a contract house, I made the 5.4 out of a 4.6 for Ford. We built 6
engines from mostly stock parts. Only the crank was really special. All the
other parts were modified from stock parts and rough castings including the
block/crankcase. Those engine were about 80K each.
When at JTE (Jeep/Truck Engineering), I was part of the 4.6 program. Clean
paper engine in 204 weeks. All new everything. the Phase 0 build of 80 engines
actually yielded 68 operational engines at a final cost of 280k/each.
Memories of big buck prototype years.
Matt
--
Matt & Mary Colie
'73 Glacier 23 Chaumiere (say show-me-air)
SE Michigan - DTW 3.2/4R
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| Re: [GMCnet] The Cruz GMC? [message #109800 is a reply to message #109686] |
Sun, 26 December 2010 11:33 |
Jim Bounds
Messages: 842
Registered: January 2004
Karma: 0
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Gary,
You are truly a sick person wishing that on ME! Yea, I do understand and heck,
what fun would it be knowing what tomorrow is going to bring!
Got the Honda Gold Wing back out with the Solex carb. Turned it to a "rat
bike", runs like crap but I love it. All that stuff along with the GMC stuff
we're doing, I think I'm pretty much stuck in this hole for good!
"Where are we going and why am I in this handbasket!"
Jim Bounds
-----------------------------
----- Original Message ----
From: Gary Berry <duallycc@gmail.com>
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Sent: Fri, December 24, 2010 7:30:33 PM
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] The Cruz GMC?
Hey JimB;
Thanks for some more great information. I sure hope he brings the
23' out west sometime soon. Diana and I are heading out in the Stretch
for about 6 weeks. Will be hanging around CA, AZ, and NM, so if he
does head out here there might be a chance of seeing it. I still like
all of the new and innovative stuff that you do, and look forward to
these builds. Hope you have something new that will keep you stressed
out, and all of us entertained. I like you that way. Keep up the good
work.
--
Gary and Diana Berry
73 CL Stretch in Wa.
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| Re: [GMCnet] The Cruz GMC? [message #109810 is a reply to message #109505] |
Sun, 26 December 2010 14:45 |
GeorgeRud
Messages: 1380
Registered: February 2007
Location: Chicago, IL
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Regardless of the feasability of ever seeing another one of these coaches built, it certainly has been fun seeing all the creative work that has gone into these truly custom coaches. Thanks for taking us along the for journey, Jim!
I still wonder how feasable Duramaxx engine transplants will become in the future as more and more will be available on the used market. The potential fuel mileage increases certainly make them sound attractive, and as more visionaries make these happen, we may see other great options for our coaches in the future!
Enjoy all your projects in good health.
George Rudawsky
Chicago, IL
75 Palm Beach
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| Re: [GMCnet] The Cruz GMC? [message #109971 is a reply to message #109862] |
Tue, 28 December 2010 04:02 |
Les
Messages: 29
Registered: March 2009
Location: Meredith NH
Karma: 0
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Junior Member |
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JIM
Now that the 2 duramax are pretty much behind you can we talk about a nuclear powered, doubledecker GMC, with slides,from the "midnight express" frame, everybody else keeps turning me down :)
Les Simpson
76 Glenbrook
Meredith NH
> Date: Mon, 27 Dec 2010 05:41:25 -0700
> From: botiemad11@gmail.com
> To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
> Subject: Re: [GMCnet] The Cruz GMC?
>
> You did it though Jim. Knowing you, you would neve be happy if you had just
> thought about it and not done it. Those coaches are remarkable and just
> might be your legacy.
>
> On Sun, Dec 26, 2010 at 10:21 AM, Jim Bounds <gmccoop@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > I have to decline
> > considering another on of these on any budget, you just cannot predetermine
> > what
> > it will take to do this again. I have been pushed into the understanding
> > of
> > this phrase from the non funny reality side of it "if you have to ask how
> > much
> > it will be too expensive". --
> >
> Steve Ferguson
> Sierra Vista, AZ
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> GMCnet mailing list
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Les & Sue Simpson
Meredith, NH
1976 X-Glenbrook
2000 Heritage Softail
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| Re: [GMCnet] The Cruz GMC? [message #109988 is a reply to message #109971] |
Tue, 28 December 2010 10:54 |
Chr$
Messages: 2690
Registered: January 2004
Location: Scottsdale, AZ
Karma: 1
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Senior Member |
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Heh Heh! Reminds me of that '70's movie "The Big Bus." Jim, those coaches are truely outstanding, I wish i could embark on such a project... The individuality of both of them will make them more valuable than anything. I hope to get to see one or both some time in the near future.
$65K for that Chassis! I figured closer to only $50K. Yikes...
| Les wrote on Tue, 28 December 2010 03:02 |
JIM
Now that the 2 duramax are pretty much behind you can we talk about a nuclear powered, doubledecker GMC, with slides,from the "midnight express" frame, everybody else keeps turning me down 
Les Simpson
76 Glenbrook
Meredith NH
> Date: Mon, 27 Dec 2010 05:41:25 -0700
> From: botiemad11@gmail.com
> To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
> Subject: Re: [GMCnet] The Cruz GMC?
>
> You did it though Jim. Knowing you, you would neve be happy if you had just
> thought about it and not done it. Those coaches are remarkable and just
> might be your legacy.
>
> On Sun, Dec 26, 2010 at 10:21 AM, Jim Bounds <gmccoop@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > I have to decline
> > considering another on of these on any budget, you just cannot predetermine
> > what
> > it will take to do this again. I have been pushed into the understanding
> > of
> > this phrase from the non funny reality side of it "if you have to ask how
> > much
> > it will be too expensive". --
> >
> Steve Ferguson
> Sierra Vista, AZ
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> List Information and Subscription Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
List Information and Subscription Options:
http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
|
-Chr$: Perpetual SmartAss
Scottsdale, AZ
77 Ex-Kingsley 455 SOLD!
2010 Nomad 24 Ft TT 390W PV W/MPPT, EV4010 and custom cargo door.
Photosite: Chrisc GMC:"It has Begun" TT: "The Other Woman"
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