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| Speed Sensor [message #109030] |
Sun, 19 December 2010 17:57  |
g.winger
Messages: 792
Registered: February 2008
Location: Warrenton,Missouri
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Have been reading with intrest all info on F.I. Still can't decide on Msq. or EBL!!!! But I'm a little confused. 2000 or 4000 per mile???? Does EBL need one but electric cruise the other???? Whats the bottom line??? I know of the divide by 2 board but is there a times 2 board??? Paul- a little confused-Leavitt
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| Re: Speed Sensor [message #109034 is a reply to message #109030] |
Sun, 19 December 2010 18:40  |
rvanwin
Messages: 325
Registered: April 2007
Location: Battlefield, MO
Karma: 6
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| g.winger wrote on Sun, 19 December 2010 17:57 |
2000 or 4000 per mile???? Does EBL need one but electric cruise the other???? Whats the bottom line??? I know of the divide by 2 board but is there a times 2 board???
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Paul,
When many of us started with the EBL, it required a VSS signal that was at 2000 pulses per mile as did the original 7747 ECM. Some of us had the Delphi Electro-motor stepper Cruise Control which required 4000 pulses per mile. Therefore, we got a VSS that sent 4000 pulses and used a divide by 2 board (thanks to Druber) to get the 2000 pulses needed. The latest release of the EBL has a parameter that you can set that allows you to set the number of pulses per mile so the divide by 2 board is not needed. The Rostra cruise was another issue as it presented 8000 pulses but was a sine wave and the EBL didn't care for that (it wanted a square wave, IIRC) so many with the Rostra also put in a VSS. I'm happy with my $20 electro motor delphi unit from the men's mall.
Lots of information over on the EFI forum: <http://groups.google.com/group/gmcmh-efi> You can request to join if you haven't already.
Randy & Margie
'77 Eleganza II '403'
Battlefield, MO
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| Re: [GMCnet] Speed Sensor [message #109058 is a reply to message #109053] |
Sun, 19 December 2010 20:52 |
Ken Henderson
Messages: 8726
Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA
Karma: 9
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Wally,
Before 'Druber came up with his divide-by-two module, I'd planned to
use a DRAC. But I never got around to digging one out of its hiding
place behind a dashboard. I did, however, do a good bit of research.
This article is about the best (despite his calling it a Ration
adapter instead of a Ratio adapter):
http://www.614streets.com/drac.html
I suspect the DRAC (Digital Ratio Adapter Controller) can be used to
shape and scale the Rosta VSS output, but it's been a long time since
I sttudied it.
HTH,
Ken H.
On Sun, Dec 19, 2010 at 9:32 PM, Wally Anderson <wallyand@aim.com> wrote:
>
>
> g.winger wrote on Sun, 19 December 2010 19:43
>> Ok, soooooo, what vehicle has the 2k per mile speed sensor??? And what vehicle has the cruise thats 4k per mile AND what vehicle do I need to avoid thats 8k and a sine wave???? Got a full week off coming up after Christmas. Got a date at the mall!! Paul-a little less confused but still with Q. Leavitt
>
> Hello Paul,
> I'm kind of in the same boat on VSS. Paul Lehman who posts as Spiffycar had some insight into VSS that will fit in our transmissions, have a speedo cable fitting and a VSS output. Here are some of his posts on the photo site.
> http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/showphoto.php?photo=35186&title=dsc01759&cat=all
> http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/showphoto.php?photo=35187&title=dsc01764&cat=5553
> The one I got is from a Cavalier. This is how it looks in one of our transmissions. Filed a slot on the vss case for the retainer to hook on.
> http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/showphoto.php?photo=36638&title=vss-with-speedo-output&cat=4895
> I'm unsure of the pulses per mile. Snagged two types of 4 out buffer modules and a DRAC module, not sure what to use but should be able to get something going. Hoping for more insight on this ;)
>
> --
> Wally Anderson
> 1975 Glenbrook
> Megasquirt 455 port injection science project-On the road 8162 miles
> Omaha Nebraska
> Greater Midwest Classics
> GMCES
> http://wallyandsue.blogspot.com/
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Ken Henderson
Americus, GA
www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
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| Re: Speed Sensor [message #109059 is a reply to message #109038] |
Sun, 19 December 2010 20:59 |
George Beckman
Messages: 1085
Registered: October 2008
Location: Colfax, CA
Karma: 11
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| g.winger wrote on Sun, 19 December 2010 17:43 |
Ok, soooooo, what vehicle has the 2k per mile speed sensor??? And what vehicle has the cruise thats 4k per mile AND what vehicle do I need to avoid thats 8k and a sine wave???? Got a full week off coming up after Christmas. Got a date at the mall!! Paul-a little less confused but still with Q. Leavitt
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Not sure where the 2K came from. I did a little of searching and see fellows talking about 80s GM vehicles.
I have the Delphi that Randy mentioned. The 2K was the original EBL requirement so it must have been popular on some GM cars. BobR of EBL fame had enough questions that he altered the EBL programming so you can select the ppm, which eliminated the need for the /2 board. But mine is still under there. I figured why take it out? Druber did a nice job on it, and so I guess I keep it as a nice piece of history.
'74 Eleganza, SE, Howell + EBL
Best Wishes,
George
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| Re: Speed Sensor [message #109076 is a reply to message #109038] |
Sun, 19 December 2010 23:52 |
rvanwin
Messages: 325
Registered: April 2007
Location: Battlefield, MO
Karma: 6
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| g.winger wrote on Sun, 19 December 2010 19:43 |
Ok, soooooo, what vehicle has the 2k per mile speed sensor??? And what vehicle has the cruise thats 4k per mile AND what vehicle do I need to avoid thats 8k and a sine wave???? Got a full week off coming up after Christmas. Got a date at the mall!! Paul-a little less confused but still with Q. Leavitt
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Paul,
I got my VSS sensor as an add-on. Goes in-line with the Speedo cable. <http://www.howellefi.com/customer/vehicle-speed-sensor-all-tbi-1985-89-tpi.html> and other places. At the time, Druber was selling the 4000 ppm VSS but he has since stopped selling them. Wally has found some vehicles with VSSs that might work but as he said he is still working on them. The 8k pulse is from the aftermarket Rostra CC that many have installed.
The Delphi Electro Motor Cruise Control can be found on many late 80s and early 90s GM vehicles. However, the one from an '89 - '90 GM pickup has the accelerator control cable that is about the right length and setup for easy installation on our coaches. If you go this route, you would also need a turn signal stalk from a 80s GM vehicle. This is what you are looking for: <http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/showphoto.php?photo=35183&title=dsc01758&cat=5553> It also talks to the VSS from a donor car.
Randy & Margie
'77 Eleganza II '403'
Battlefield, MO
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| Re: [GMCnet] Speed Sensor [message #109096 is a reply to message #109076] |
Mon, 20 December 2010 08:43 |
druber
Messages: 58
Registered: March 2004
Location: Syracuse, IN
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I do still have a 4k/mile Vss upstairs if anyone needs one. And if you
REALLY need one, I can still order more. Price is $75. If several of you
need the 2k/mile Vss, I could order them from the same source, but I need to
order at least 4 at a time to get a reasonable price.
Druber
-----Original Message-----
From: gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org
[mailto:gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of Randy Van Winkle
Sent: Monday, December 20, 2010 12:52 AM
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Speed Sensor
g.winger wrote on Sun, 19 December 2010 19:43
> Ok, soooooo, what vehicle has the 2k per mile speed sensor??? And what
vehicle has the cruise thats 4k per mile AND what vehicle do I need to avoid
thats 8k and a sine wave???? Got a full week off coming up after Christmas.
Got a date at the mall!! Paul-a little less confused but still with Q.
Leavitt
Paul,
I got my VSS sensor as an add-on. Goes in-line with the Speedo cable.
<http://www.howellefi.com/customer/vehicle-speed-sensor-all-tbi-1985-89-tpi.
html> and other places. At the time, Druber was selling the 4000 ppm VSS
but he has since stopped selling them. Wally has found some vehicles with
VSSs that might work but as he said he is still working on them. The 8k
pulse is from the aftermarket Rostra CC that many have installed.
The Delphi Electro Motor Cruise Control can be found on many late 80s and
early 90s GM vehicles. However, the one from an '89 - '90 GM pickup has the
accelerator control cable that is about the right length and setup for easy
installation on our coaches. If you go this route, you would also need a
turn signal stalk from a 80s GM vehicle. This is what you are looking for:
<http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/showphoto.php?photo=35183&title=dsc01758&
cat=5553> It also talks to the VSS from a donor car.
--
Randy & Margie
'77 Eleganza II '403'
Battlefield, MO
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| Re: Speed Sensor [message #109107 is a reply to message #109030] |
Mon, 20 December 2010 11:33 |
g.winger
Messages: 792
Registered: February 2008
Location: Warrenton,Missouri
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I think i've got it. Electric delphi cruise off a late 80's PU. 4k per mile VSS and the EBL will work with it.????Yes???? But Vss off a 80's Cavileir is 2K per mile. So which vehicle has 4k per mile. And do I need the buffer that spiffycar posted on tha photo site. Looks like it from the print he posted,,,,thanks again.,,,,,PL One more thing. Wally, what vehicle did you get the IAC stepper and mount from??? thanks,,,,
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| Re: Speed Sensor [message #109118 is a reply to message #109107] |
Mon, 20 December 2010 12:42 |
rvanwin
Messages: 325
Registered: April 2007
Location: Battlefield, MO
Karma: 6
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| g.winger wrote on Mon, 20 December 2010 11:33 |
I think i've got it. Electric delphi cruise off a late 80's PU. 4k per mile VSS and the EBL will work with it.????Yes????
|
That should work for the cruise and EBL. I used a VSS from Druber so did not need the buffer. I'm not familiar with the DRAC or the VSSs that Wally is looking at from the Cavalier so someone else needs to answer that. Remember, you will need a turn signal stalk with the CC set, decel, resume functions. Because the attachment of the stalk with these functions attach differently, I had to remove the plastic end from the original and replace it with the plastic (containing the switches) from the donor turn signal. That way the original attachment can be maintained. Somewhere there is a video that shows this operation but have not been able to find it yet.
Randy & Margie
'77 Eleganza II '403'
Battlefield, MO
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| Re: Speed Sensor [message #109132 is a reply to message #109118] |
Mon, 20 December 2010 13:22 |
rvanwin
Messages: 325
Registered: April 2007
Location: Battlefield, MO
Karma: 6
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Senior Member |
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| rvanwin wrote on Mon, 20 December 2010 12:42 |
| g.winger wrote on Mon, 20 December 2010 11:33 |
I think i've got it. Electric delphi cruise off a late 80's PU. 4k per mile VSS and the EBL will work with it.????Yes????
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That should work for the cruise and EBL. Somewhere there is a video that shows this operation but have not been able to find it yet.
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Paul,
Here is the fairly complete step-by-step for the Delphi Cruise Control installation: <http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/showgallery.php?cat=4776>
Randy & Margie
'77 Eleganza II '403'
Battlefield, MO
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| Re: Speed Sensor [message #109133 is a reply to message #109118] |
Mon, 20 December 2010 13:31 |
Bob de Kruyff
Messages: 4260
Registered: January 2004
Location: Chandler, AZ
Karma: 1
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| rvanwin wrote on Mon, 20 December 2010 11:42 |
| g.winger wrote on Mon, 20 December 2010 11:33 |
I think i've got it. Electric delphi cruise off a late 80's PU. 4k per mile VSS and the EBL will work with it.????Yes????
|
That should work for the cruise and EBL. I used a VSS from Druber so did not need the buffer. I'm not familiar with the DRAC or the VSSs that Wally is looking at from the Cavalier so someone else needs to answer that. Remember, you will need a turn signal stalk with the CC set, decel, resume functions. Because the attachment of the stalk with these functions attach differently, I had to remove the plastic end from the original and replace it with the plastic (containing the switches) from the donor turn signal. That way the original attachment can be maintained. Somewhere there is a video that shows this operation but have not been able to find it yet.
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A few years ago, I installed a later model mechanical cruise transducer with the resume solenoid. I was prepared to install a new stalk with the resume feature but after looking at the wiring diagrams, I realized the original single button stalk has all of the required functions except for the accel function. I can set, coast, and resume with the original stalk.
Bob de Kruyff
78 Eleganza
Chandler, AZ
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| Re: Speed Sensor [message #109144 is a reply to message #109107] |
Mon, 20 December 2010 14:40 |
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wally
Messages: 643
Registered: August 2004
Location: Omaha Nebraska
Karma: 5
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| g.winger wrote on Mon, 20 December 2010 11:33 |
I think i've got it. Electric delphi cruise off a late 80's PU. 4k per mile VSS and the EBL will work with it.????Yes???? But Vss off a 80's Cavileir is 2K per mile. So which vehicle has 4k per mile. And do I need the buffer that spiffycar posted on tha photo site. Looks like it from the print he posted,,,,thanks again.,,,,,PL One more thing. Wally, what vehicle did you get the IAC stepper and mount from??? thanks,,,,
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Paul sent ya PM
Today I put a voltmeter on the Cavalier VSS and get 4 voltage reversals per revolution. If the standard is 1000 revolutions per mile that makes it a 4K VSS. The 4 out buffer takes the vss sine input and makes two square wave outputs. One out put at VSS frequency and one divided by two. So there would be a 2k output suitable for the older ecms and a 4k output suitable for Delphi cruise control. That lines up with what Paul Lehman came up with here.
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/showphoto.php?photo=35608&title=cruise-wiring-1&cat=5553
Cool stuff.
Wally Anderson
Omaha NE
75 Glenbrook
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| Re: Speed Sensor [message #109222 is a reply to message #109144] |
Tue, 21 December 2010 00:48 |
spiffycar
Messages: 133
Registered: May 2010
Location: Brook Park ,Ohio
Karma: 1
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Wally is correct on my findings.The only problem you may run into with this setup is if you are running higher than the stock final drive ratio as the largest driven gear I have found for the Cavalier VSS is a 31tooth. I do not believe there is any other driver gear (the one on the Governor) available other than the stock one.
Paul W L
76 Daytona Beach! ( EX-Palm Beach )
Cleveland,OH
& Current Card Carrying Pull A Part VIP Member
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| Re: Speed Sensor [message #109225 is a reply to message #109222] |
Tue, 21 December 2010 04:59 |
spiffycar
Messages: 133
Registered: May 2010
Location: Brook Park ,Ohio
Karma: 1
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Ok this may be sacrilegious, but for those looking for an alternative to the cruise stalk situation check out Ebay Item #270645967919. This may be another part to look for in your local mens mall. I saw a couple over the summer but when I went back the next week to get one to try out they had crushed the cars already. Could be a "bolt right on and wire it up" option.
Paul W L
76 Daytona Beach! ( EX-Palm Beach )
Cleveland,OH
& Current Card Carrying Pull A Part VIP Member
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| Re: [GMCnet] Speed Sensor [message #109250 is a reply to message #109225] |
Tue, 21 December 2010 07:47 |
Ken Henderson
Messages: 8726
Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA
Karma: 9
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Or, much cheaper and easier, there's this:
http://cgi.ebay.com/2CH-Latch-RF-Remote-Control-Programable-Receiver-315M-/160437830821?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item255ad704a5#ht_4390wt_754
http://goo.gl/Gctwu
#160437830821
When I installed my ElectroMotor II CC, I didn't want to fool with
changing the column switch, so I just stuck a remote similar to that
above on the left spoke of the steering wheel. With the receiver
mounted behind the dash, the two momentary relays provide the
Set/Coast and Accel/Resume switch functions. A rocker switch on the
new dash controls the power.
I soon found that I prefer the buttons on the wheel (like the Honda
CRV) to either my S-10's stalk or the Lexus's R. side stalk mounted
push buttons. The transmitter batteries, like most remotes' last a
long time -- over 1-1/2 years so far.
Search eBay for "2CH RF" to find a wide assortment of the devices.
Single and multi-channel variants are also available for other
applications. I configure the single channel ones to operate the
Emergency Call buttons at my mother's assisted living facility. The
provided system has only wired controls, which are of little help
during the frequent falls of the elderly. With the remote on a
necklace, they don't have to crawl to a wired pendant switch. The
remotes are pretty easily programmable, and the TxRx will learn that
code when a "program" button is pushed.
One day I'll get around to using another 2Ch to lock and unlock the
GMC entry door.
Ken H.
On Tue, Dec 21, 2010 at 5:59 AM, Paul W Lehmann <spiffycar@gmail.com> wrote:
> 270645967919
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Ken Henderson
Americus, GA
www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
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