| Arc Fault Breaker [message #108694] |
Thu, 16 December 2010 13:50  |
pistolnut
Messages: 19
Registered: September 2010
Location: Caldwell, TX
Karma: 0
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On my first outing with the GMC the A/C circuit that runs down the driver's side of the coach tripped and tripped immediately every time it was reset and power supplied. This circuit supplies the A/C outlets on the drivers side, including the one under the seat which the inverter plugs into. I took the breaker out of the box, and I checked the outlets and circuits and it appears the breaker is the problem, all of the circuits seem good.
It turns out that the breaker is an "arc fault" unit. These were not available when the GMC was built, is there any reason that I need to go back with this type of breaker? This was the only one in the box. The only reason I can see for using this one is that this circuit is in the proximity of the house battery when it is charging.
The price difference is about $30.00 or more, any thoughts from the experts here?
'76 Birchaven
Caldwell, TX
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| Re: Arc Fault Breaker [message #108695 is a reply to message #108694] |
Thu, 16 December 2010 13:59  |
Craig Lechowicz
Messages: 541
Registered: October 2006
Location: Waterford, MI
Karma: 0
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I'm probably not an expert, but I know from my home addition project that the newest building codes (I think from International Residential Code - IRC 2004 on) they are required in new construction only in circuits that feed bedrooms. I have no idea what the R/V codes are, but I doubt they are included. An arc fault breaker as it's name implies senses an intermittent "arcing" type short that occurs at less than full beaker load. From what I've heard, electricians don't like them due to their expense and a tendency to trip, even when they shouldn't. The code was changed due to a concern over things like frayed extension cords under rugs and that type of thing causing fires while people were sleeping.
That may be a valid concern in a GMC, but my sense is they are more trouble than they are worth. I put new original type breakers in my GMC when I added the inverter last summer.
Craig Lechowicz
'77 Kingsley, Waterford, MI
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| Re: [GMCnet] Arc Fault Breaker [message #108700 is a reply to message #108694] |
Thu, 16 December 2010 14:31 |
James Hupy
Messages: 6806
Registered: May 2010
Karma: -62
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The arc fault breakers are particularly sensitive to small arcs that occur
when there are loose connections on receptacles or light fixtures,
specifically the screws and wire nut connectors that are commonly found
inside boxes where receptacles are located. Make sure that you check all
such items to see if thay are tight and it would not hurt to check the
inverter connections as well. After you have assured yourself that nothing
is loose, then think about replacement of the breaker. It is trying to tell
you something, we just have to learn what it is saying. GFCIs have their own
unique quirks as well. Kinda hard to beat a properly sized fuse EXCEPT when
ground faults are really a problem. You never want to become the grounding
path for 120 V AC. Don't ask me how I gained my knowledge in this regard, it
is still painful to remember it.
Jim Hupy
Salem, Or
78 Royale 403
On Thu, Dec 16, 2010 at 11:50 AM, Clint Arnett <pistolnut@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> On my first outing with the GMC the A/C circuit that runs down the driver's
> side of the coach tripped and tripped immediately every time it was reset
> and power supplied. This circuit supplies the A/C outlets on the drivers
> side, including the one under the seat which the inverter plugs into. I took
> the breaker out of the box, and I checked the outlets and circuits and it
> appears the breaker is the problem, all of the circuits seem good.
>
> It turns out that the breaker is an "arc fault" unit. These were not
> available when the GMC was built, is there any reason that I need to go back
> with this type of breaker? This was the only one in the box. The only
> reason I can see for using this one is that this circuit is in the proximity
> of the house battery when it is charging.
>
> The price difference is about $30.00 or more, any thoughts from the experts
> here?
> --
> '76 Birchaven
> Caldwell, TX
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> List Information and Subscription Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
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GMCnet mailing list
List Information and Subscription Options:
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| Re: Arc Fault Breaker [message #108704 is a reply to message #108694] |
Thu, 16 December 2010 16:42 |
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Matt Colie
Messages: 8547
Registered: March 2007
Location: S.E. Michigan
Karma: 7
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Senior Member |
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| pistolnut wrote on Thu, 16 December 2010 14:50 |
On my first outing with the GMC the A/C circuit that runs down the driver's side of the coach tripped and tripped immediately every time it was reset and power supplied. This circuit supplies the A/C outlets on the drivers side, including the one under the seat which the inverter plugs into. I took the breaker out of the box, and I checked the outlets and circuits and it appears the breaker is the problem, all of the circuits seem good.
It turns out that the breaker is an "arc fault" unit. These were not available when the GMC was built, is there any reason that I need to go back with this type of breaker? This was the only one in the box. The only reason I can see for using this one is that this circuit is in the proximity of the house battery when it is charging.
The price difference is about $30.00 or more, any thoughts from the experts here?
|
Clint,
There is a nomenclature issue here that has to be clear up first.
A/C usually is an abbreviation for Air Conditioning.
AC is typically a Alternating Current power.
An inverter makes DC from an AC supply (typically 12V).
You say the inverter is plugged into the A/C circuit. It would make more sense if the converter was plugged into the AC circuit.
Going with the later assumption....
I happen to like both GFCI and AFCI breakers, but the later can be tempermental. (I - personally - am not sure that the technology is fully developed. I have seen them trip with no reason.)
To answer your question straight up. As the coach predates AFCI technology and rules for application, the only problem replacing it with a standard breaker might cause is if you try to sell it on a HUD contract in California.
When you remove all known loads on the circuit, even the things plugged in behind cabinets, does the AFCI still trip? It should not. There are a number of legitimate loads that may trip an AFCI.
I hope this was some help.
Matt
Matt & Mary Colie - Chaumière -'73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan with OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Near DTW - Twixt A2 and Detroit
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| Re: Arc Fault Breaker [message #108706 is a reply to message #108704] |
Thu, 16 December 2010 17:09 |
pistolnut
Messages: 19
Registered: September 2010
Location: Caldwell, TX
Karma: 0
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Junior Member |
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Yes, alternating current AC.
The breaker trips with all loads disconnected, in fact with most of circuit disconnected. Does anyone know of a bench test procedure for the breaker?
'76 Birchaven
Caldwell, TX
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| Re: [GMCnet] Arc Fault Breaker [message #108940 is a reply to message #108882] |
Sun, 19 December 2010 07:10 |
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Matt Colie
Messages: 8547
Registered: March 2007
Location: S.E. Michigan
Karma: 7
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Senior Member |
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OOPS.... Thanks Mac
Matt
| k2gkk wrote on Sat, 18 December 2010 19:33 |
Au contraire! For our purposes here, inverters make
120 VAC from 12 VDC. The term "converters" is often
used for the devices that take 120 VAC and transforms
and then rectifies the output to 12 VDC.
Of course different DC and AC voltages can be
involved in other circumstances.
I'm pretty sure Matt Colie knows this and just had
a case of fumble finger whilst typing below.
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
~~ ~ D C "Mac" Macdonald ~ ~~
~ ~ Amateur Radio - K2GKK ~ ~
~ ~ USAF and FAA, Retired ~ ~
~ ~ ~ Oklahoma City, OK ~ ~ ~
~~ ~ ~ "The Money Pit" ~ ~ ~~
~ ~ ~ ex-Palm Beach, 76 ~ ~ ~
~ www.gmcmhphotos.com/okclb ~
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
> To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
> From: mcolie@chartermi.net
> Date: Thu, 16 Dec 2010 16:42:16 -0600
> Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Arc Fault Breaker
>
> Clint,
>
> There is a nomenclature issue here that has to be clear up first.
> A/C usually is an abbreviation for Air Conditioning.
> AC is typically a Alternating Current power.
>
> An CON xinx verter makes DC from an AC supply (typically 12V).
>
> I hope this was some help.
>
> Matt
>
>
>
> --
> Matt & Mary Colie
> '73 Glacier 23 Chaumiere (say show-me-air)
> SE Michigan - DTW 3.2/4R
|
Matt & Mary Colie - Chaumière -'73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan with OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Near DTW - Twixt A2 and Detroit
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