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| [GMCnet] water heater and furnace again [message #107756] |
Mon, 06 December 2010 22:57  |
john arbuckle
Messages: 122
Registered: March 2010
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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So everyone I am going to replace both my furnace and the water heater. I
need a little input on which products work the best and are the most
reliable. I would like to do as little custom fitting as possible. Any names
or brands would be greatly appreciated.
Thank you
John Arbuckle
1976 Palm Beach
Tucson AZ.
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| Re: [GMCnet] water heater and furnace again [message #107802 is a reply to message #107756] |
Tue, 07 December 2010 10:53  |
idrob
Messages: 645
Registered: January 2005
Location: Central Idaho
Karma: 0
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| john arbuckle wrote on Mon, 06 December 2010 20:57 |
So everyone I am going to replace both my furnace and the water heater. I
need a little input on which products work the best and are the most
reliable. I would like to do as little custom fitting as possible. Any names
or brands would be greatly appreciated.
Thank you
John Arbuckle
1976 Palm Beach
Tucson AZ.
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John:
I winter up in the far SE Phx metro mess (not far from Florence AZ) and only about 80 miles from Tucson via the "back way".
Would be glad to have an excuse to come down and look over your replacement project with you, and make my best attempt at suggestions of what to put in, and how to do it.
I love to ride around... let me know if this would help you any.
Rob Allen
former owner of '76 x-PB
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| Re: [GMCnet] water heater and furnace again [message #107864 is a reply to message #107756] |
Tue, 07 December 2010 21:09 |
powerjon
Messages: 2446
Registered: January 2004
Karma: 5
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Senior Member |
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My question would be why replace the hot water heater, why not
rebuild! Your 76 should have the 2nd addition hot water heater. Jim
K has the stainless steel replacement tank that comes with the heater
coil and accessories. The tank is a work of art and should never
fail. See: http://www.appliedgmc.com/prod.itml/icOid/518 I have
done mine and it works great.
As for the furnace I would suggest using a Suburban 30 or 35 SH or SF
unit and the NT30 is a square profile close to the Solaire unit.
http://gmcmotorhomeinfo.com/heat.html#solaire.
Furnace pricing can vary at times and there are sales that you can
take advantage of. I haven't seen a furnace on Jim K site but he may
have one and check his pricing if he does. You can look at camping
world and other RV supplier.
J.R. Wright
> So everyone I am going to replace both my furnace and the water
> heater. I
> need a little input on which products work the best and are the most
> reliable. I would like to do as little custom fitting as possible.
> Any names
> or brands would be greatly appreciated.
>
> Thank you
> John Arbuckle
> 1976 Palm Beach
> Tucson AZ.
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> List Information and Subscription Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
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J.R. Wright
GMC GreatLaker
GMC Eastern States
GMCMI
78 30' Buskirk Stretch
75 Avion Under Reconstruction
Michigan
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| Re: [GMCnet] water heater and furnace again [message #107995 is a reply to message #107975] |
Thu, 09 December 2010 11:16 |
Ken Burton
Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana
Karma: 10
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Senior Member |
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| Ken Henderson wrote on Thu, 09 December 2010 07:13 |
Now EVEN I am reading furnace threads! 26*F here last night! :>((
Ken H.
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I thought you went to Florida with the rest of the snow birds for the winter.
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
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| Re: [GMCnet] water heater and furnace again [message #107997 is a reply to message #107995] |
Thu, 09 December 2010 11:22 |
Ken Henderson
Messages: 8726
Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA
Karma: 9
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Senior Member |
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Can't leave 'til 8 Jan. & last year it was cold down there too! Shaping up
to be the same this year. Global Warming, you know.
Ken H.
On Thu, Dec 9, 2010 at 12:16 PM, Ken Burton <n9cv@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>
> Ken Henderson wrote on Thu, 09 December 2010 07:13
> > Now EVEN I am reading furnace threads! 26*F here last night! :>((
> > Ken H.
>
> I thought you went to Florida with the rest of the snow birds for the
> winter.
> --
>
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Ken Henderson
Americus, GA
www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
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| Re: [GMCnet] water heater and furnace again [message #108005 is a reply to message #107997] |
Thu, 09 December 2010 12:50 |
James Hupy
Messages: 6806
Registered: May 2010
Karma: -62
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Senior Member |
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Ken, yes if the Guvmnt doesn't get a handle on this Global Warming stuff
soon, we may all freeze our patooties off.
Jim Hupy
Salem, Or
78 Royale 403 (sure glad I just replaced the Suburban furnace.)
On Thu, Dec 9, 2010 at 9:22 AM, Ken Henderson <hend4800@bellsouth.net>wrote:
> Can't leave 'til 8 Jan. & last year it was cold down there too! Shaping up
> to be the same this year. Global Warming, you know.
>
> Ken H.
>
>
> On Thu, Dec 9, 2010 at 12:16 PM, Ken Burton <n9cv@comcast.net> wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > Ken Henderson wrote on Thu, 09 December 2010 07:13
> > > Now EVEN I am reading furnace threads! 26*F here last night! :>((
> > > Ken H.
> >
> > I thought you went to Florida with the rest of the snow birds for the
> > winter.
> > --
> >
> _______________________________________________
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| Re: [GMCnet] water heater and furnace again [message #108067 is a reply to message #107756] |
Thu, 09 December 2010 22:01 |
captjack
Messages: 271
Registered: February 2010
Location: Sebastopol, California
Karma: 1
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Senior Member |
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I noted on arch's pictures of his heater install a comment that he had to remove it and reinstall it because of a problem which he stated was mentioned the net. I did a search and couldn't find the problem. Since I'm going to have to replace my heater, I'd rather not do it twice. What is the potential problem when installing the Suburban NT heater??
Thanks,
Jack Christensen - K6ROW,
'76 Glenbrook/Clasco - "The Silver Bullet",
Sebastopol, CA
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| Re: [GMCnet] water heater and furnace again [message #108086 is a reply to message #107979] |
Fri, 10 December 2010 00:04 |
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Don't know if your got your answer or not.
As I recall, the SH series uses larger fans and may use larger duct work.
They'd fit in motorhomes and campers with more room for the ducting.
Our Royale came with an SF series. We replaced it one year ago. The new fan
is a lot quieter than the old one. Our duct work, however, gets squeezed in
places. Coachmen took it under the refrigerator on the way to the two
locations in the rear.
If I got an extra dollars and an extra 25 hours I'd replace the ductwork and
put some insulation in places, especially if I had it gutted. However, we
don't spend that much time in the coach when it's that cold to worry with
it. It gets very hot around the furnace. So, we open the cabinet doors to
let the hot air out.
If you have an interior by GMC you probably have your furnace under a couch
and have other issues. You may also have a Solaire furnace.
Byron Songer
1978 Royale by Coachmen
Louisville, KY
Personal - http://web.me.com/bnsonger
Eastern States - http://www.gmceast.com
Jon Roche wrote:
>
>
> what is the difference between the SF and the SH?
> _______________________________________________
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--
Byron Songer
Full-timing to enjoy the USA
Former owner but still an admirer
GMC paint schemes at -
http://www.songerconsulting.net
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| Re: [GMCnet] water heater and furnace again [message #108089 is a reply to message #108088] |
Fri, 10 December 2010 00:31 |
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Because the side of the coach isn't perpendicular to the ground. The intake
and exhaust is rather inflexible. Hence, in a GMC you mount it at an angle.
Byron Songer
1978 Royale by Coachmen
Louisville, KY
Personal - http://web.me.com/bnsonger
Eastern States - http://www.gmceast.com
john arbuckle wrote:
> Why is it that everyone seems to have to install these units at an angle? Do
> the not fit or is it to connect the old register to the new furnace? Is
> there a way to mount it flat or even to the old furnace mounting bracket
> then to the floor. In short what is the reason for the tikt in the
> istallation?
> Thank you
> John Arbuckle
>
> On Thu, Dec 9, 2010 at 2:24 AM, Mr.erf ERFisher <mr.erfisher@gmail.com>wrote:
>
>> So I was looking at those suburban SH and SF
>>
>>> units do they mount in the original space with little modification? Or do
>> I
>>> have to make it work? Thanks for the input it helps a great deal.
>>>
>>
>> here goes
>>
>> http://gmcmotorhome.info/heat.html#solaire
>>
>> gene
>>
>>
>>
>>> John Arbuckle
>>> Tucson AZ
>>> 1976 Palm Beach
>>>
>>> On Tue, Dec 7, 2010 at 7:09 PM, John Wright <powerjon@chartermi.net>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> My question would be why replace the hot water heater, why not
>>>> rebuild! Your 76 should have the 2nd addition hot water heater. Jim
>>>> K has the stainless steel replacement tank that comes with the heater
>>>> coil and accessories. The tank is a work of art and should never
>>>> fail. See: http://www.appliedgmc.com/prod.itml/icOid/518 I have
>>>> done mine and it works great.
>>>>
>>>> As for the furnace I would suggest using a Suburban 30 or 35 SH or SF
>>>> unit and the NT30 is a square profile close to the Solaire unit.
>>>>
>>>> http://gmcmotorhomeinfo.com/heat.html#solaire.
>>>>
>>>> Furnace pricing can vary at times and there are sales that you can
>>>> take advantage of. I haven't seen a furnace on Jim K site but he may
>>>> have one and check his pricing if he does. You can look at camping
>>>> world and other RV supplier.
>>>>
>>>> J.R. Wright
>>>>
>>>>> So everyone I am going to replace both my furnace and the water
>>>>> heater. I
>>>>> need a little input on which products work the best and are the most
>>>>> reliable. I would like to do as little custom fitting as possible.
>>>>> Any names
>>>>> or brands would be greatly appreciated.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thank you
>>>>> John Arbuckle
>>>>> 1976 Palm Beach
>>>>> Tucson AZ.
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> GMCnet mailing list
>>>>> List Information and Subscription Options:
>>>>> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> GMCnet mailing list
>>>> List Information and Subscription Options:
>>>> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> GMCnet mailing list
>>> List Information and Subscription Options:
>>> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Gene Fisher -- 74-23,77PB/ore/ca
>> łGive a man a fish; you have fed him for today --- give him a URL and
>> -------
>> http://gmcmotorhome.info/
>> Alternator Protection Cable
>> http://gmcmotorhome.info/APC.html
>> _______________________________________________
>> GMCnet mailing list
>> List Information and Subscription Options:
>> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> List Information and Subscription Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
List Information and Subscription Options:
http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
--
Byron Songer
Full-timing to enjoy the USA
Former owner but still an admirer
GMC paint schemes at -
http://www.songerconsulting.net
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| Re: [GMCnet] water heater and furnace again [message #108090 is a reply to message #108086] |
Fri, 10 December 2010 00:33 |
john arbuckle
Messages: 122
Registered: March 2010
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Yes I do have a solaire furnace and want to replace it but the entire coach
is gutted so all duct work will be new. It is mounted under the kitchen sink
area. What would be your input on that? Any info would be great thanks
John Arbuckle
On Thu, Dec 9, 2010 at 11:04 PM, Byron Songer
<bsonger@songerconsulting.net>wrote:
> Don't know if your got your answer or not.
>
> As I recall, the SH series uses larger fans and may use larger duct work.
> They'd fit in motorhomes and campers with more room for the ducting.
>
> Our Royale came with an SF series. We replaced it one year ago. The new fan
> is a lot quieter than the old one. Our duct work, however, gets squeezed in
> places. Coachmen took it under the refrigerator on the way to the two
> locations in the rear.
>
> If I got an extra dollars and an extra 25 hours I'd replace the ductwork
> and
> put some insulation in places, especially if I had it gutted. However, we
> don't spend that much time in the coach when it's that cold to worry with
> it. It gets very hot around the furnace. So, we open the cabinet doors to
> let the hot air out.
>
> If you have an interior by GMC you probably have your furnace under a couch
> and have other issues. You may also have a Solaire furnace.
>
> Byron Songer
> 1978 Royale by Coachmen
> Louisville, KY
> Personal - http://web.me.com/bnsonger
> Eastern States - http://www.gmceast.com
>
>
>
> Jon Roche wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > what is the difference between the SF and the SH?
> > _______________________________________________
> > GMCnet mailing list
> > List Information and Subscription Options:
> > http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> List Information and Subscription Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
List Information and Subscription Options:
http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
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| Re: [GMCnet] water heater and furnace again [message #108091 is a reply to message #108089] |
Fri, 10 December 2010 00:34 |
john arbuckle
Messages: 122
Registered: March 2010
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Gotcha thank you again.
On Thu, Dec 9, 2010 at 11:31 PM, Byron Songer
<bsonger@songerconsulting.net>wrote:
> Because the side of the coach isn't perpendicular to the ground. The intake
> and exhaust is rather inflexible. Hence, in a GMC you mount it at an angle.
>
> Byron Songer
> 1978 Royale by Coachmen
> Louisville, KY
> Personal - http://web.me.com/bnsonger
> Eastern States - http://www.gmceast.com
>
>
>
> john arbuckle wrote:
>
> > Why is it that everyone seems to have to install these units at an angle?
> Do
> > the not fit or is it to connect the old register to the new furnace? Is
> > there a way to mount it flat or even to the old furnace mounting bracket
> > then to the floor. In short what is the reason for the tikt in the
> > istallation?
> > Thank you
> > John Arbuckle
> >
> > On Thu, Dec 9, 2010 at 2:24 AM, Mr.erf ERFisher <mr.erfisher@gmail.com
> >wrote:
> >
> >> So I was looking at those suburban SH and SF
> >>
> >>> units do they mount in the original space with little modification? Or
> do
> >> I
> >>> have to make it work? Thanks for the input it helps a great deal.
> >>>
> >>
> >> here goes
> >>
> >> http://gmcmotorhome.info/heat.html#solaire
> >>
> >> gene
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>> John Arbuckle
> >>> Tucson AZ
> >>> 1976 Palm Beach
> >>>
> >>> On Tue, Dec 7, 2010 at 7:09 PM, John Wright <powerjon@chartermi.net>
> >>> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> My question would be why replace the hot water heater, why not
> >>>> rebuild! Your 76 should have the 2nd addition hot water heater. Jim
> >>>> K has the stainless steel replacement tank that comes with the heater
> >>>> coil and accessories. The tank is a work of art and should never
> >>>> fail. See: http://www.appliedgmc.com/prod.itml/icOid/518 I have
> >>>> done mine and it works great.
> >>>>
> >>>> As for the furnace I would suggest using a Suburban 30 or 35 SH or SF
> >>>> unit and the NT30 is a square profile close to the Solaire unit.
> >>>>
> >>>> http://gmcmotorhomeinfo.com/heat.html#solaire.
> >>>>
> >>>> Furnace pricing can vary at times and there are sales that you can
> >>>> take advantage of. I haven't seen a furnace on Jim K site but he may
> >>>> have one and check his pricing if he does. You can look at camping
> >>>> world and other RV supplier.
> >>>>
> >>>> J.R. Wright
> >>>>
> >>>>> So everyone I am going to replace both my furnace and the water
> >>>>> heater. I
> >>>>> need a little input on which products work the best and are the most
> >>>>> reliable. I would like to do as little custom fitting as possible.
> >>>>> Any names
> >>>>> or brands would be greatly appreciated.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Thank you
> >>>>> John Arbuckle
> >>>>> 1976 Palm Beach
> >>>>> Tucson AZ.
> >>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>> GMCnet mailing list
> >>>>> List Information and Subscription Options:
> >>>>> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
> >>>>
> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>> GMCnet mailing list
> >>>> List Information and Subscription Options:
> >>>> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
> >>>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> GMCnet mailing list
> >>> List Information and Subscription Options:
> >>> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> Gene Fisher -- 74-23,77PB/ore/ca
> >> łGive a man a fish; you have fed him for today --- give him a URL and
> >> -------
> >> http://gmcmotorhome.info/
> >> Alternator Protection Cable
> >> http://gmcmotorhome.info/APC.html
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> GMCnet mailing list
> >> List Information and Subscription Options:
> >> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
> >>
> > _______________________________________________
> > GMCnet mailing list
> > List Information and Subscription Options:
> > http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> List Information and Subscription Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
List Information and Subscription Options:
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| Re: [GMCnet] water heater and furnace again [message #108094 is a reply to message #108089] |
Fri, 10 December 2010 03:51 |
 |
mike miller
Messages: 3576
Registered: February 2004
Location: Hillsboro, Oregon
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Many RV furnaces did not have a back plate. For proper air flow, they expect rear of the furnace to be 'sealed" by the wall of the coach. Unlike most RV's, the coach wall on our GMC's isn't flat, so the furnace has to be angled to match.
To mount it level, you can buy/make a back plate. The exhaust and intake tubes might need to be extended. I was able to have level mounting and get the body holes to line up in my 1973. The holes in the body were to low in my 1978 and I needed to keep the furnace angled. I haven't looked at my '77... yet.
| Byron Songer wrote on Thu, 09 December 2010 22:31 |
Because the side of the coach isn't perpendicular to the ground. The intake
and exhaust is rather inflexible. Hence, in a GMC you mount it at an angle.
john arbuckle wrote:
> Why is it that everyone seems to have to install these units
> at an angle?
|
Mike Miller -- Hillsboro, OR -- on the Black list
(#2)`78 23' Birchaven Rear Bath -- (#3)`77 23' Birchaven Side Bath
More Sidekicks than GMC's and a late model Malibu called 'Boo'
http://m000035.blogspot.com
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| Re: [GMCnet] water heater and furnace again [message #108107 is a reply to message #108088] |
Fri, 10 December 2010 09:22 |
Erv Troyer
Messages: 125
Registered: February 2004
Location: Lagrange, IN
Karma: 0
|
Senior Member |
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| John Arbuckle wrote on Fri, 10 December 2010 00:24 |
Why is it that everyone seems to have to install these units at an angle? Is there a way to mount it flat or even to the old furnace mounting bracket then to the floor. In short what is the reason for the tilt in the installation?
|
The Suburban NT can be installed flat. I was in the RV heating/AC service business for over 20 years, and I have never liked the angle mounting, although Suburban and Coachmen both insist it is OK.
Our 74 GMC originally had a Suburban NT-30 furnace. It was gone when we bought our coach, but the outside vent was still in place. I built a sheet metal box 4 3/8 inches high to mount under the new NT furnace. That dimension was given to me by Max Pardy at Buskirk-Rush. The existing ducts were then attached to openings in this box. I made the front of the box with a sliding panel, and we partially open this panel to let out more heat - the original 3 ducts are not capable of handling 30,000 btu without tripping the limit switch.
Our furnace is under the kitchen sink - driver side. This installation allows the furnace to be removed from the base cabinet without any modifications. The SF and SH series units are wider and can't be removed through this cabinet door.
I took the vent pipes and pinched them in a vise (vertical) alongside a piece of 3/4" iron pipe (horizontal), and ended up with an angled pipe that matched the original vent in the side of the coach. This is actually what Suburban did for their units that were installed by GMC. I don't know if these special vents are still available from Suburban or not.
Please use caution and common sense if you make ANY modifications to ANY vents - you must avoid restricting the tubes too much, and all joints must be reasonably tight. In a direct-vent furnace both the air intake and exhaust are exposed to the same outside pressures, and if everything is sealed the outside pressures will balance out. However, if you allow any significant leak in either the IN or OUT sections this balance will be upset, and strange things start to occur - anything from intermittent ignition lockout to producing carbon monoxide (that CO1 is what gets deadly).
I also made a sheet metal back panel for the furnace cabinet to make the return air go through the sides of the cabinet. This is needed to make sure the ignition module board does not get too hot.
If you install your replacement furnace where you are removing the Sol-Aire you may have to do some recalculating to get the furnace the right height so the vents will align with one of the original Sol-Aire vents. Denis Leconte has a very good detailed description of replacing a Sol-Aire with the SF furnace (mounted flat) at: http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/showgallery.php?cat=5082.
There used to be a good description for installing the Atwood (Hydroflame) furnace this way, but I can't find it anymore. (Druber, wasn't that you?)
Good luck with your projects.
Erv Troyer Lagrange, IN
1974 Sequoia
(77 Birchhaven is sold - went to St. Louis)
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