Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » Edlebrock manifold plugs (Realy bad news)
| Edlebrock manifold plugs [message #106590] |
Tue, 23 November 2010 19:57  |
Gil Slaw
Messages: 69
Registered: May 2006
Location: Hampshire, IL
Karma: 0
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Member |
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I have about 9K easy miles on my Edlebrock Performer intake.
The plugs were 1/4" drilled per factory instruction,
They were very carefully contoured and tightly fitted when installed.
I pulled the manifold today Re: My short story long post.
And I found:
That the plugs were hammered and somewhat distorted, they were polished and elongated.
The bores were smooth and the bottom end of the bores were bright and depressed (both sides).
Obvious signals of much movement of the plugs.
THESE PLUGS ARE BADDDD NEWS
Gil Slaw
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| Re: Edlebrock manifold plugs [message #106595 is a reply to message #106590] |
Tue, 23 November 2010 20:54  |
roy1
Messages: 2126
Registered: July 2004
Location: Minden nevada
Karma: 6
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Senior Member |
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| Gil Slaw wrote on Tue, 23 November 2010 17:57 |
I have about 9K easy miles on my Edlebrock Performer intake.
The plugs were 1/4" drilled per factory instruction,
They were very carefully contoured and tightly fitted when installed.
I pulled the manifold today Re: My short story long post.
And I found:
That the plugs were hammered and somewhat distorted, they were polished and elongated.
The bores were smooth and the bottom end of the bores were bright and depressed (both sides).
Obvious signals of much movement of the plugs.
THESE PLUGS ARE BADDDD NEWS
Gil Slaw
Sounds very familiar except mine were removed at 20,000 and I'll bet worn smaller then yours.
Roy
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Roy Keen
Minden,NV
76 X Glenbrook
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| Re: Edlebrock manifold plugs [message #106599 is a reply to message #106595] |
Tue, 23 November 2010 22:43 |
Ken Burton
Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana
Karma: 10
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Senior Member |
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Several others have reported the same thing.
Buy or cut some stainless plates and sandwich them between the intake and the head over the exhaust crossover ports. They work well and won't loosen up and bounce around.
The correct thickness is important. If you are making them yourself, talk to Jim K. or Dick P. for the correct thickness of the plates and the appropriate intake gasket. I measured mine at the time I installed them and if I remember correctly they were around .021" thick.
The easiest thing is to just get them pre-made ones from Jim K. or Dick P.
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
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| Re: [GMCnet] Edlebrock manifold plugs [message #106646 is a reply to message #106639] |
Wed, 24 November 2010 19:17 |
Ken Henderson
Messages: 8726
Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA
Karma: 9
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Senior Member |
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Gil,
I'll admit, shamefacedly, that I never reported my Edelbrock cast iron plugs
damage to them. Apparently I'm in bad company all around: no one else did
either. I cost me only frustration because I caught the damage before it
affected operations. They've cost others literally thousands of dollars.
There's still no excuse for them not being aware of the problem. Wish you'd
given him the URL for my photo album showing the damage.
.
Ken H.
Americus, GA
'76 X-Birchaven w/Cad500/Howell EFI+ & EBL
www.gmcwipersetc.com
On Wed, Nov 24, 2010 at 7:36 PM, Gil Slaw <gslaw700@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
>
> I talked to a tech at Edlebrock, he said that he has been with them for 7
> years and he has never heard of the problem before.
>
> No suggestions were offered.
> ...
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Ken Henderson
Americus, GA
www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
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| Re: [GMCnet] Edlebrock manifold plugs [message #106651 is a reply to message #106646] |
Wed, 24 November 2010 19:41 |
powerjon
Messages: 2446
Registered: January 2004
Karma: 5
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Senior Member |
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Shortcut to Ken's pictures on the damage caused by the cross over
plugs. Should be forwarded to Edelbrock!
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/showgallery.php?cat=3057
On Nov 24, 2010, at 8:17 PM, Ken Henderson wrote:
> Gil,
>
> I'll admit, shamefacedly, that I never reported my Edelbrock cast
> iron plugs
> damage to them. Apparently I'm in bad company all around: no one
> else did
> either. I cost me only frustration because I caught the damage
> before it
> affected operations. They've cost others literally thousands of
> dollars.
>
> There's still no excuse for them not being aware of the problem.
> Wish you'd
> given him the URL for my photo album showing the damage.
> .
> Ken H.
> Americus, GA
> '76 X-Birchaven w/Cad500/Howell EFI+ & EBL
> www.gmcwipersetc.com
>
>
>
> On Wed, Nov 24, 2010 at 7:36 PM, Gil Slaw <gslaw700@sbcglobal.net>
> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> I talked to a tech at Edlebrock, he said that he has been with them
>> for 7
>> years and he has never heard of the problem before.
>>
>> No suggestions were offered.
_______________________________________________
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J.R. Wright
GMC GreatLaker
GMC Eastern States
GMCMI
78 30' Buskirk Stretch
75 Avion Under Reconstruction
Michigan
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| Re: [GMCnet] Edlebrock manifold plugs [message #106661 is a reply to message #106651] |
Wed, 24 November 2010 20:26 |
larry erd
Messages: 132
Registered: August 2010
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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I am planning on purchasing a new Edelbrock intake for my 403 which was just
rebuilt and I'm not at all up to speed on these cross over plugs and the
problems
that some of you have had. Please give me the why,what,and how come, before
I buy
one.
larry erd
77 kingsley
lake ashton, fl.
On Wed, Nov 24, 2010 at 8:41 PM, John Wright <powerjon@chartermi.net> wrote:
> Shortcut to Ken's pictures on the damage caused by the cross over
> plugs. Should be forwarded to Edelbrock!
>
> http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/showgallery.php?cat=3057
>
>
> On Nov 24, 2010, at 8:17 PM, Ken Henderson wrote:
>
> > Gil,
> >
> > I'll admit, shamefacedly, that I never reported my Edelbrock cast
> > iron plugs
> > damage to them. Apparently I'm in bad company all around: no one
> > else did
> > either. I cost me only frustration because I caught the damage
> > before it
> > affected operations. They've cost others literally thousands of
> > dollars.
> >
> > There's still no excuse for them not being aware of the problem.
> > Wish you'd
> > given him the URL for my photo album showing the damage.
> > .
> > Ken H.
> > Americus, GA
> > '76 X-Birchaven w/Cad500/Howell EFI+ & EBL
> > www.gmcwipersetc.com
> >
> >
> >
> > On Wed, Nov 24, 2010 at 7:36 PM, Gil Slaw <gslaw700@sbcglobal.net>
> > wrote:
> >
> >>
> >>
> >> I talked to a tech at Edlebrock, he said that he has been with them
> >> for 7
> >> years and he has never heard of the problem before.
> >>
> >> No suggestions were offered.
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> List Information and Subscription Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
_______________________________________________
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List Information and Subscription Options:
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| Re: [GMCnet] Edlebrock manifold plugs [message #106668 is a reply to message #106661] |
Wed, 24 November 2010 21:02 |
James Hupy
Messages: 6806
Registered: May 2010
Karma: -62
|
Senior Member |
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|
Larry, the problem on the 455 and to some extent on the 403 is that the
engine side of the manifold has a tendency to crack with all the exhaust
heat that flows through the crossover passage. When the cracks migrate to
the floor of the manifold under the carb, then a vacuum leak occurs and the
carb doesen't work correctly. The problem is more severe in the hotter part
of the country because the engines tend to run hotter there and the
manifolds are more prone to crack there, and the heat from the exhaust is
not needed either. In the cooler north, some manifold heat is needed to make
the carb vaporize the fuel correctly. Two methods are used to correct the
problem. One is to fill the exhaust passage by pouring melted pistons into
the passage, and the other is to place stainless steel block off plates
between the intake manifold and the heads. Some have suggested that if some
heat is needed, that smaller holes be drilled in the plates. I believe
Edelbrock recommends that the passage be blocked in their aluminum
manifolds. There have been some attempts to block the passages in the heads
with cast iron plugs that are made to fit the head passage. Some of them
have become loose in the head and interferred with valve action. I believe
that the stainless plates that completely block the passage are the best way
to go. If the cast iron manifold on the 455 is cracked, the only alternative
is to find another motorhome manifold used, or an Olds Toronado manifold
will interchange. The only other option is a Howell aluminum manifold, made
in small batches, very high in quality, and quite expensive. Not a problem
for the 403. The Edelbrock performer is a bolt on, and the air cleaner
clears the hatch cover. If you can't keep the engine from vaporlocking,
blocking the passage helps that too. Hope this helps.
Jim Hupy
Salem, Or
78 Royale 403
On Wed, Nov 24, 2010 at 6:26 PM, larry erd <1ljerd@gmail.com> wrote:
> I am planning on purchasing a new Edelbrock intake for my 403 which was
> just
>
> rebuilt and I'm not at all up to speed on these cross over plugs and the
> problems
> that some of you have had. Please give me the why,what,and how come, before
> I buy
> one.
>
> larry erd
> 77 kingsley
> lake ashton, fl.
>
>
>
> On Wed, Nov 24, 2010 at 8:41 PM, John Wright <powerjon@chartermi.net>
> wrote:
>
> > Shortcut to Ken's pictures on the damage caused by the cross over
> > plugs. Should be forwarded to Edelbrock!
> >
> > http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/showgallery.php?cat=3057
> >
> >
> > On Nov 24, 2010, at 8:17 PM, Ken Henderson wrote:
> >
> > > Gil,
> > >
> > > I'll admit, shamefacedly, that I never reported my Edelbrock cast
> > > iron plugs
> > > damage to them. Apparently I'm in bad company all around: no one
> > > else did
> > > either. I cost me only frustration because I caught the damage
> > > before it
> > > affected operations. They've cost others literally thousands of
> > > dollars.
> > >
> > > There's still no excuse for them not being aware of the problem.
> > > Wish you'd
> > > given him the URL for my photo album showing the damage.
> > > .
> > > Ken H.
> > > Americus, GA
> > > '76 X-Birchaven w/Cad500/Howell EFI+ & EBL
> > > www.gmcwipersetc.com
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Wed, Nov 24, 2010 at 7:36 PM, Gil Slaw <gslaw700@sbcglobal.net>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> I talked to a tech at Edlebrock, he said that he has been with them
> > >> for 7
> > >> years and he has never heard of the problem before.
> > >>
> > >> No suggestions were offered.
> > _______________________________________________
> > GMCnet mailing list
> > List Information and Subscription Options:
> > http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
> >
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> List Information and Subscription Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
List Information and Subscription Options:
http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
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| Re: [GMCnet] Edlebrock manifold plugs [message #106670 is a reply to message #106668] |
Wed, 24 November 2010 21:19 |
larry erd
Messages: 132
Registered: August 2010
Karma: 0
|
Senior Member |
|
|
jim, I can't see how you could attach a SS plate between 2 machined
surfaces,
It would have to be as thin as the gasket and inset into a cut out in the
gasket????
larry erd
On Wed, Nov 24, 2010 at 10:02 PM, James Hupy <jamesh1296@gmail.com> wrote:
> Larry, the problem on the 455 and to some extent on the 403 is that the
> engine side of the manifold has a tendency to crack with all the exhaust
> heat that flows through the crossover passage. When the cracks migrate to
> the floor of the manifold under the carb, then a vacuum leak occurs and the
> carb doesen't work correctly. The problem is more severe in the hotter part
> of the country because the engines tend to run hotter there and the
> manifolds are more prone to crack there, and the heat from the exhaust is
> not needed either. In the cooler north, some manifold heat is needed to
> make
> the carb vaporize the fuel correctly. Two methods are used to correct the
> problem. One is to fill the exhaust passage by pouring melted pistons into
> the passage, and the other is to place stainless steel block off plates
> between the intake manifold and the heads. Some have suggested that if some
> heat is needed, that smaller holes be drilled in the plates. I believe
> Edelbrock recommends that the passage be blocked in their aluminum
> manifolds. There have been some attempts to block the passages in the heads
> with cast iron plugs that are made to fit the head passage. Some of them
> have become loose in the head and interferred with valve action. I believe
> that the stainless plates that completely block the passage are the best
> way
> to go. If the cast iron manifold on the 455 is cracked, the only
> alternative
> is to find another motorhome manifold used, or an Olds Toronado manifold
> will interchange. The only other option is a Howell aluminum manifold, made
> in small batches, very high in quality, and quite expensive. Not a problem
> for the 403. The Edelbrock performer is a bolt on, and the air cleaner
> clears the hatch cover. If you can't keep the engine from vaporlocking,
> blocking the passage helps that too. Hope this helps.
> Jim Hupy
> Salem, Or
> 78 Royale 403
>
> On Wed, Nov 24, 2010 at 6:26 PM, larry erd <1ljerd@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > I am planning on purchasing a new Edelbrock intake for my 403 which was
> > just
> >
> > rebuilt and I'm not at all up to speed on these cross over plugs and the
> > problems
> > that some of you have had. Please give me the why,what,and how come,
> before
> > I buy
> > one.
> >
> > larry erd
> > 77 kingsley
> > lake ashton, fl.
> >
> >
> >
> > On Wed, Nov 24, 2010 at 8:41 PM, John Wright <powerjon@chartermi.net>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Shortcut to Ken's pictures on the damage caused by the cross over
> > > plugs. Should be forwarded to Edelbrock!
> > >
> > > http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/showgallery.php?cat=3057
> > >
> > >
> > > On Nov 24, 2010, at 8:17 PM, Ken Henderson wrote:
> > >
> > > > Gil,
> > > >
> > > > I'll admit, shamefacedly, that I never reported my Edelbrock cast
> > > > iron plugs
> > > > damage to them. Apparently I'm in bad company all around: no one
> > > > else did
> > > > either. I cost me only frustration because I caught the damage
> > > > before it
> > > > affected operations. They've cost others literally thousands of
> > > > dollars.
> > > >
> > > > There's still no excuse for them not being aware of the problem.
> > > > Wish you'd
> > > > given him the URL for my photo album showing the damage.
> > > > .
> > > > Ken H.
> > > > Americus, GA
> > > > '76 X-Birchaven w/Cad500/Howell EFI+ & EBL
> > > > www.gmcwipersetc.com
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Wed, Nov 24, 2010 at 7:36 PM, Gil Slaw <gslaw700@sbcglobal.net>
> > > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> I talked to a tech at Edlebrock, he said that he has been with them
> > > >> for 7
> > > >> years and he has never heard of the problem before.
> > > >>
> > > >> No suggestions were offered.
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > GMCnet mailing list
> > > List Information and Subscription Options:
> > > http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
> > >
> > _______________________________________________
> > GMCnet mailing list
> > List Information and Subscription Options:
> > http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
> >
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> List Information and Subscription Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
List Information and Subscription Options:
http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
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| Re: [GMCnet] Edlebrock manifold plugs [message #106671 is a reply to message #106670] |
Wed, 24 November 2010 21:31 |
Dennis S
Messages: 3046
Registered: November 2005
Karma: 2
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Larry,
Follow this link to see ss plates and cut-out gaskets. I used Dick Paterson's plates but with thick gaskets and no cut-outs. SteverF reported doing his this way in his engine building.
http://appliedgmc.com/prod.itml/icOid/799
Dennis Sexton
73 GMC
Germantown, TN
USA
-----Original Message-----
From: larry erd <1ljerd@gmail.com>
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Sent: Wed, Nov 24, 2010 9:19 pm
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Edlebrock manifold plugs
jim, I can't see how you could attach a SS plate between 2 machined
urfaces,
t would have to be as thin as the gasket and inset into a cut out in the
asket????
larry erd
n Wed, Nov 24, 2010 at 10:02 PM, James Hupy <jamesh1296@gmail.com> wrote:
> Larry, the problem on the 455 and to some extent on the 403 is that the
engine side of the manifold has a tendency to crack with all the exhaust
heat that flows through the crossover passage. When the cracks migrate to
the floor of the manifold under the carb, then a vacuum leak occurs and the
carb doesen't work correctly. The problem is more severe in the hotter part
of the country because the engines tend to run hotter there and the
manifolds are more prone to crack there, and the heat from the exhaust is
not needed either. In the cooler north, some manifold heat is needed to
make
the carb vaporize the fuel correctly. Two methods are used to correct the
problem. One is to fill the exhaust passage by pouring melted pistons into
the passage, and the other is to place stainless steel block off plates
between the intake manifold and the heads. Some have suggested that if some
heat is needed, that smaller holes be drilled in the plates. I believe
Edelbrock recommends that the passage be blocked in their aluminum
manifolds. There have been some attempts to block the passages in the heads
with cast iron plugs that are made to fit the head passage. Some of them
have become loose in the head and interferred with valve action. I believe
that the stainless plates that completely block the passage are the best
way
to go. If the cast iron manifold on the 455 is cracked, the only
alternative
is to find another motorhome manifold used, or an Olds Toronado manifold
will interchange. The only other option is a Howell aluminum manifold, made
in small batches, very high in quality, and quite expensive. Not a problem
for the 403. The Edelbrock performer is a bolt on, and the air cleaner
clears the hatch cover. If you can't keep the engine from vaporlocking,
blocking the passage helps that too. Hope this helps.
Jim Hupy
Salem, Or
78 Royale 403
On Wed, Nov 24, 2010 at 6:26 PM, larry erd <1ljerd@gmail.com> wrote:
> I am planning on purchasing a new Edelbrock intake for my 403 which was
> just
>
> rebuilt and I'm not at all up to speed on these cross over plugs and the
> problems
> that some of you have had. Please give me the why,what,and how come,
before
> I buy
> one.
>
> larry erd
> 77 kingsley
> lake ashton, fl.
>
>
>
> On Wed, Nov 24, 2010 at 8:41 PM, John Wright <powerjon@chartermi.net>
> wrote:
>
> > Shortcut to Ken's pictures on the damage caused by the cross over
> > plugs. Should be forwarded to Edelbrock!
> >
> > http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/showgallery.php?cat=3057
> >
> >
> > On Nov 24, 2010, at 8:17 PM, Ken Henderson wrote:
> >
> > > Gil,
> > >
> > > I'll admit, shamefacedly, that I never reported my Edelbrock cast
> > > iron plugs
> > > damage to them. Apparently I'm in bad company all around: no one
> > > else did
> > > either. I cost me only frustration because I caught the damage
> > > before it
> > > affected operations. They've cost others literally thousands of
> > > dollars.
> > >
> > > There's still no excuse for them not being aware of the problem.
> > > Wish you'd
> > > given him the URL for my photo album showing the damage.
> > > .
> > > Ken H.
> > > Americus, GA
> > > '76 X-Birchaven w/Cad500/Howell EFI+ & EBL
> > > www.gmcwipersetc.com
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Wed, Nov 24, 2010 at 7:36 PM, Gil Slaw <gslaw700@sbcglobal.net>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> I talked to a tech at Edlebrock, he said that he has been with them
> > >> for 7
> > >> years and he has never heard of the problem before.
> > >>
> > >> No suggestions were offered.
> > _______________________________________________
> > GMCnet mailing list
> > List Information and Subscription Options:
> > http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
> >
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> List Information and Subscription Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
List Information and Subscription Options:
http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
______________________________________________
MCnet mailing list
ist Information and Subscription Options:
ttp://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
List Information and Subscription Options:
http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
Dennis S
73 Painted Desert 230
Memphis TN Metro
|
|
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| Re: [GMCnet] Edlebrock manifold plugs [message #106678 is a reply to message #106671] |
Wed, 24 November 2010 22:11 |
larry erd
Messages: 132
Registered: August 2010
Karma: 0
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Dennis, Do you know if that gasket will work with headers?
Larry,
l.com> wrote:Follow this link to see ss plates and cut-out gaskets. I used
Dick Paterson's plates but with thick gaskets and no cut-outs. SteverF
reported doing his this way in his engine building.
http://appliedgmc.com/prod.itml/icOid/799
Dennis Sexton
73 GMC
Germantown, TN
USA
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: larry erd <1ljerd@gmail.com>
> To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
> Sent: Wed, Nov 24, 2010 9:19 pm
> Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Edlebrock manifold plugs
>
>
> jim, I can't see how you could attach a SS plate between 2 machined
> urfaces,
> t would have to be as thin as the gasket and inset into a cut out in the
> asket????
> larry erd
>
>
> n Wed, Nov 24, 2010 at 10:02 PM, James Hupy <jamesh1296@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Larry, the problem on the 455 and to some extent on the 403 is that the
> engine side of the manifold has a tendency to crack with all the exhaust
> heat that flows through the crossover passage. When the cracks migrate to
> the floor of the manifold under the carb, then a vacuum leak occurs and
> the
> carb doesen't work correctly. The problem is more severe in the hotter
> part
> of the country because the engines tend to run hotter there and the
> manifolds are more prone to crack there, and the heat from the exhaust is
> not needed either. In the cooler north, some manifold heat is needed to
> make
> the carb vaporize the fuel correctly. Two methods are used to correct the
> problem. One is to fill the exhaust passage by pouring melted pistons into
> the passage, and the other is to place stainless steel block off plates
> between the intake manifold and the heads. Some have suggested that if
> some
> heat is needed, that smaller holes be drilled in the plates. I believe
> Edelbrock recommends that the passage be blocked in their aluminum
> manifolds. There have been some attempts to block the passages in the
> heads
> with cast iron plugs that are made to fit the head passage. Some of them
> have become loose in the head and interferred with valve action. I believe
> that the stainless plates that completely block the passage are the best
> way
> to go. If the cast iron manifold on the 455 is cracked, the only
> alternative
> is to find another motorhome manifold used, or an Olds Toronado manifold
> will interchange. The only other option is a Howell aluminum manifold,
> made
> in small batches, very high in quality, and quite expensive. Not a problem
> for the 403. The Edelbrock performer is a bolt on, and the air cleaner
> clears the hatch cover. If you can't keep the engine from vaporlocking,
> blocking the passage helps that too. Hope this helps.
> Jim Hupy
> Salem, Or
> 78 Royale 403
>
> On Wed, Nov 24, 2010 at 6:26 PM, larry erd <1ljerd@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > I am planning on purchasing a new Edelbrock intake for my 403 which was
> > just
> >
> > rebuilt and I'm not at all up to speed on these cross over plugs and
> the
> > problems
> > that some of you have had. Please give me the why,what,and how come,
> before
> > I buy
> > one.
> >
> > larry erd
> > 77 kingsley
> > lake ashton, fl.
> >
> >
> >
> > On Wed, Nov 24, 2010 at 8:41 PM, John Wright <powerjon@chartermi.net>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Shortcut to Ken's pictures on the damage caused by the cross over
> > > plugs. Should be forwarded to Edelbrock!
> > >
> > > http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/showgallery.php?cat=3057
> > >
> > >
> > > On Nov 24, 2010, at 8:17 PM, Ken Henderson wrote:
> > >
> > > > Gil,
> > > >
> > > > I'll admit, shamefacedly, that I never reported my Edelbrock cast
> > > > iron plugs
> > > > damage to them. Apparently I'm in bad company all around: no one
> > > > else did
> > > > either. I cost me only frustration because I caught the damage
> > > > before it
> > > > affected operations. They've cost others literally thousands of
> > > > dollars.
> > > >
> > > > There's still no excuse for them not being aware of the problem.
> > > > Wish you'd
> > > > given him the URL for my photo album showing the damage.
> > > > .
> > > > Ken H.
> > > > Americus, GA
> > > > '76 X-Birchaven w/Cad500/Howell EFI+ & EBL
> > > > www.gmcwipersetc.com
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Wed, Nov 24, 2010 at 7:36 PM, Gil Slaw <gslaw700@sbcglobal.net>
> > > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> I talked to a tech at Edlebrock, he said that he has been with them
> > > >> for 7
> > > >> years and he has never heard of the problem before.
> > > >>
> > > >> No suggestions were offered.
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > GMCnet mailing list
> > > List Information and Subscription Options:
> > > http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
> > >
> > _______________________________________________
> > GMCnet mailing list
> > List Information and Subscription Options:
> > http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
> >
> _______________________________________________
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| Re: [GMCnet] Edlebrock manifold plugs [message #106693 is a reply to message #106678] |
Thu, 25 November 2010 00:56 |
Ken Burton
Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana
Karma: 10
|
Senior Member |
|
|
| larry erd wrote on Wed, 24 November 2010 22:11 |
Dennis, Do you know if that gasket will work with headers?
Larry,
l.com> wrote:Follow this link to see ss plates and cut-out gaskets. I used
Dick Paterson's plates but with thick gaskets and no cut-outs. SteverF
reported doing his this way in his engine building.
http://appliedgmc.com/prod.itml/icOid/799
Dennis Sexton
73 GMC
Germantown, TN
USA
|
YES.
We are talking about INTAKE manifold gaskets here. Headers are exhaust manifold replacements. It is like talking about apples and oranges.
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
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| Re: [GMCnet] Edlebrock manifold plugs [message #106699 is a reply to message #106671] |
Thu, 25 November 2010 06:53 |
Steven Ferguson
Messages: 3447
Registered: May 2006
Karma: 0
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Yes, that is the way I did it. I pulled down that old engine after
installing the new one and there was zero evidence of any leakage around the
plates. I did a couple of things on the new engine when I installed the
intake; I trimmed down the SS plates (made my own out of some old sheet
stock I had) so they just fit the openings in the heads, I knife edged them
so there would be less impact on gasket compression, and used elephant snot
to secute them to the head surface to prevent shifting when installing the
gasket and manifold.
The old plates had years and thousands of miles on them and zero corrosion,
they cleaned up like new.
On Wed, Nov 24, 2010 at 8:31 PM, Dennis S <dennisfsexton@aol.com> wrote:
>
> Larry,
>
> Follow this link to see ss plates and cut-out gaskets. I used Dick
> Paterson's plates but with thick gaskets and no cut-outs. SteverF reported
> doing his this way in his engine building.
>
> http://appliedgmc.com/prod.itml/icOid/799
>
>
> Dennis Sexton
> 73 GMC
> Germantown, TN
> USA
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: larry erd <1ljerd@gmail.com>
> To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
> Sent: Wed, Nov 24, 2010 9:19 pm
> Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Edlebrock manifold plugs
>
>
> jim, I can't see how you could attach a SS plate between 2 machined
> urfaces,
> t would have to be as thin as the gasket and inset into a cut out in the
> asket????
> larry erd
>
>
> n Wed, Nov 24, 2010 at 10:02 PM, James Hupy <jamesh1296@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Larry, the problem on the 455 and to some extent on the 403 is that the
> engine side of the manifold has a tendency to crack with all the exhaust
> heat that flows through the crossover passage. When the cracks migrate to
> the floor of the manifold under the carb, then a vacuum leak occurs and
> the
> carb doesen't work correctly. The problem is more severe in the hotter
> part
> of the country because the engines tend to run hotter there and the
> manifolds are more prone to crack there, and the heat from the exhaust is
> not needed either. In the cooler north, some manifold heat is needed to
> make
> the carb vaporize the fuel correctly. Two methods are used to correct the
> problem. One is to fill the exhaust passage by pouring melted pistons into
> the passage, and the other is to place stainless steel block off plates
> between the intake manifold and the heads. Some have suggested that if
> some
> heat is needed, that smaller holes be drilled in the plates. I believe
> Edelbrock recommends that the passage be blocked in their aluminum
> manifolds. There have been some attempts to block the passages in the
> heads
> with cast iron plugs that are made to fit the head passage. Some of them
> have become loose in the head and interferred with valve action. I believe
> that the stainless plates that completely block the passage are the best
> way
> to go. If the cast iron manifold on the 455 is cracked, the only
> alternative
> is to find another motorhome manifold used, or an Olds Toronado manifold
> will interchange. The only other option is a Howell aluminum manifold,
> made
> in small batches, very high in quality, and quite expensive. Not a problem
> for the 403. The Edelbrock performer is a bolt on, and the air cleaner
> clears the hatch cover. If you can't keep the engine from vaporlocking,
> blocking the passage helps that too. Hope this helps.
> Jim Hupy
> Salem, Or
> 78 Royale 403
>
> On Wed, Nov 24, 2010 at 6:26 PM, larry erd <1ljerd@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > I am planning on purchasing a new Edelbrock intake for my 403 which was
> > just
> >
> > rebuilt and I'm not at all up to speed on these cross over plugs and
> the
> > problems
> > that some of you have had. Please give me the why,what,and how come,
> before
> > I buy
> > one.
> >
> > larry erd
> > 77 kingsley
> > lake ashton, fl.
> >
> >
> >
> > On Wed, Nov 24, 2010 at 8:41 PM, John Wright <powerjon@chartermi.net>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Shortcut to Ken's pictures on the damage caused by the cross over
> > > plugs. Should be forwarded to Edelbrock!
> > >
> > > http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/showgallery.php?cat=3057
> > >
> > >
> > > On Nov 24, 2010, at 8:17 PM, Ken Henderson wrote:
> > >
> > > > Gil,
> > > >
> > > > I'll admit, shamefacedly, that I never reported my Edelbrock cast
> > > > iron plugs
> > > > damage to them. Apparently I'm in bad company all around: no one
> > > > else did
> > > > either. I cost me only frustration because I caught the damage
> > > > before it
> > > > affected operations. They've cost others literally thousands of
> > > > dollars.
> > > >
> > > > There's still no excuse for them not being aware of the problem.
> > > > Wish you'd
> > > > given him the URL for my photo album showing the damage.
> > > > .
> > > > Ken H.
> > > > Americus, GA
> > > > '76 X-Birchaven w/Cad500/Howell EFI+ & EBL
> > > > www.gmcwipersetc.com
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Wed, Nov 24, 2010 at 7:36 PM, Gil Slaw <gslaw700@sbcglobal.net>
> > > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> I talked to a tech at Edlebrock, he said that he has been with them
> > > >> for 7
> > > >> years and he has never heard of the problem before.
> > > >>
> > > >> No suggestions were offered.
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > GMCnet mailing list
> > > List Information and Subscription Options:
> > > http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
> > >
> > _______________________________________________
> > GMCnet mailing list
> > List Information and Subscription Options:
> > http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
> >
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> List Information and Subscription Options:
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>
> ______________________________________________
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> ist Information and Subscription Options:
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>
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--
Steve Ferguson
Sierra Vista, AZ
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| Re: Edlebrock manifold plugs [message #106724 is a reply to message #106639] |
Thu, 25 November 2010 15:39 |
roy1
Messages: 2126
Registered: July 2004
Location: Minden nevada
Karma: 6
|
Senior Member |
|
|
[quote title=Gil Slaw wrote on Wed, 24 November 2010 16:36]I talked to a tech at Edlebrock, he said that he has been with them for 7 years and he has never heard of the problem before.
No suggestions were offered.
The speed shop that I had my machine work done knew about the problem with the plugs and they do very few olds engines. What they do is use the iron plugs with a special high temperature epoxy to keep them tight in the heads.
Roy
Roy Keen
Minden,NV
76 X Glenbrook
|
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| Re: [GMCnet] Edlebrock manifold plugs [message #106725 is a reply to message #106670] |
Thu, 25 November 2010 15:45 |
roy1
Messages: 2126
Registered: July 2004
Location: Minden nevada
Karma: 6
|
Senior Member |
|
|
That is the way to do it just make sure the SS plate is a little thinner then the gasket to allow for the gasket compression.
Roy
e title=larry erd wrote on Wed, 24 November 2010 19:19]jim, I can't see how you could attach a SS plate between 2 machined
surfaces,
It would have to be as thin as the gasket and inset into a cut out in the
gasket????
larry erd
Roy Keen
Minden,NV
76 X Glenbrook
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| Re: [GMCnet] Edlebrock manifold plugs [message #106745 is a reply to message #106740] |
Thu, 25 November 2010 22:30 |
Ken Henderson
Messages: 8726
Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA
Karma: 9
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Gil,
0.030" SS is plenty. That leaves plenty of crush space for your 0.060"
gasket. If you still want to use thicker-than-needed SS, consider following
Alex Sirum's suggestion (as I once did) to mill recesses around the ports in
the manifold. Ready for this?: Using a regular router & carbide bit.
Works surprisingly well. Alex said he's got a jig; I just did it free
hand. Much easier and better results that I could have imagined. Wear good
eye protection.
I can't be sure from your comments: You're NOT going to use the iron plugs
also, are you? I will never under any circumstances nor with any aide
(other than full welding in place) use them again.
Neither can I imagine any epoxy being adequate to secure plugs, especially
after hearing more than one report of zinc being melted from the ports
(despite Joe Mondello's racing engine success with it).
Ken H.
On Thu, Nov 25, 2010 at 10:34 PM, Gil Slaw <gslaw700@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> ...
My intent is to use a ss plate ground to .058 and put into a pocket in the
> gasket. The gasket that I have should compress to about .060. I will leave
> the surface of the plates very rough to give it some "tooth" and check
> clearance at a 2/3 torque down and grind further if too tight.
>
> I do not know of any so called high temp epoxy that would do the job here,
> perhaps some space ship stuff is out there but Home Depot epoxy tops out at
> around 500F and it would not have much to bond to. Epoxy, in my mind would
> only give more stuff to bounce around in the runners.
>
>
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Ken Henderson
Americus, GA
www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
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| Re: [GMCnet] Edlebrock manifold plugs [message #106750 is a reply to message #106725] |
Thu, 25 November 2010 23:03 |
 |
USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
|
Senior Member |
|
|
G'day,
The PO of The Blue Streak in Australia cut a couple of pieces out of the
turkey tray he removed when he fitted the Edelbrock and Holley Commander
EFI.
Personally if I were installing an Edelbrock (which I will be on the Caddy
500) I would bevel the area around the crossover port and then make up an
aluminum plug 1/4" thick or so and heli-arc it into the manifold. AND THAT'S
THAT!
Regards,
Rob M.
USAussie
-----Original Message-----
From: gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org
[mailto:gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of roy keen
Sent: Thursday, November 25, 2010 3:46 PM
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Edlebrock manifold plugs
That is the way to do it just make sure the SS plate is a little thinner
then the gasket to allow for the gasket compression.
Roy
e title=larry erd wrote on Wed, 24 November 2010 19:19]jim, I can't see how
you could attach a SS plate between 2 machined
surfaces,
It would have to be as thin as the gasket and inset into a cut out in the
gasket????
larry erd
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
List Information and Subscription Options:
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_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
List Information and Subscription Options:
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Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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