Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » [GMCnet] Girard Tankless LPG water heater
| [GMCnet] Girard Tankless LPG water heater [message #105187] |
Fri, 05 November 2010 20:09  |
tmaki
Messages: 200
Registered: September 2005
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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For anyone whose world view tends toward the 530nm
wavelength, Girard (the maker of what some consider to be
the finest RV awning in the business), has introduced an
induced draft LPG tankless water heater.
I saw it at their booth at SEMA yesterday, and it's an RV
specific product - i.e., no cobbling up a bunch of parts
intended for another application, looks to fit into less
space than SOTI Atwood models.
Here's their info on the Web:
http://www.greenrvproducts.com
(Oh yeah - almost forgot - the guys from RareParts.com were
there, and they are familiar with the GMC front suspension.
Mike Miller mentioned them in a post a little while back.
They supply the suppliers like Cinnabar, Golby, etc. From
talking to them, they could be persuaded to do more if they
had a more complete idea of the kinds of things needed. Not
just ball joints, and tie rod ends, and relay arms - that
kind of thing. They might be interested in developing a
weld-in-place lower control arm reinforcement part, or who
knows what else. Mostly a matter of the size of the market
potential.
The GMC suspension parts are not listed on their Website nor
are they in the general catalog. They said one has to ask
for them specifically.)
Toby Maki
'73 Glacier 230
Riverside, CA
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| Re: [GMCnet] Girard Tankless LPG water heater [message #105191 is a reply to message #105187] |
Fri, 05 November 2010 20:28  |
jayrabe
Messages: 509
Registered: June 2009
Location: Portland, OR
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Looks like a great unit, but at ~3x the price of EcoTemp, and Girard doesn't quote any gpm specs, kind of makes you wonder what you're paying for other than bragging rights to having a new technology...
J
76PB
Portland, OR
> Date: Fri, 5 Nov 2010 18:09:26 -0700
> From: tmaki@earthlink.net
> To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
> Subject: [GMCnet] Girard Tankless LPG water heater
>
> For anyone whose world view tends toward the 530nm
> wavelength, Girard (the maker of what some consider to be
> the finest RV awning in the business), has introduced an
> induced draft LPG tankless water heater.
>
> I saw it at their booth at SEMA yesterday, and it's an RV
> specific product - i.e., no cobbling up a bunch of parts
> intended for another application, looks to fit into less
> space than SOTI Atwood models.
>
> Here's their info on the Web:
>
> http://www.greenrvproducts.com
>
> (Oh yeah - almost forgot - the guys from RareParts.com were
> there, and they are familiar with the GMC front suspension.
> Mike Miller mentioned them in a post a little while back.
> They supply the suppliers like Cinnabar, Golby, etc. From
> talking to them, they could be persuaded to do more if they
> had a more complete idea of the kinds of things needed. Not
> just ball joints, and tie rod ends, and relay arms - that
> kind of thing. They might be interested in developing a
> weld-in-place lower control arm reinforcement part, or who
> knows what else. Mostly a matter of the size of the market
> potential.
>
> The GMC suspension parts are not listed on their Website nor
> are they in the general catalog. They said one has to ask
> for them specifically.)
>
>
>
>
> Toby Maki
> '73 Glacier 230
> Riverside, CA
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> List Information and Subscription Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
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| Re: [GMCnet] Girard Tankless LPG water heater [message #105193 is a reply to message #105191] |
Fri, 05 November 2010 20:59 |
Kosier
Messages: 834
Registered: February 2008
Karma: 1
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Their literature also says "available exclusively on new (2010)
RVs."
Gary Kosier
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jay Rabe" <jayrabe@hotmail.com>
To: <gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org>
Sent: Friday, November 05, 2010 9:28 PM
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Girard Tankless LPG water heater
>
> Looks like a great unit, but at ~3x the price of EcoTemp, and
> Girard doesn't quote any gpm specs, kind of makes you wonder
> what you're paying for other than bragging rights to having a
> new technology...
>
> J
> 76PB
> Portland, OR
>
>
>> Date: Fri, 5 Nov 2010 18:09:26 -0700
>> From: tmaki@earthlink.net
>> To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
>> Subject: [GMCnet] Girard Tankless LPG water heater
>>
>> For anyone whose world view tends toward the 530nm
>> wavelength, Girard (the maker of what some consider to be
>> the finest RV awning in the business), has introduced an
>> induced draft LPG tankless water heater.
>>
>> I saw it at their booth at SEMA yesterday, and it's an RV
>> specific product - i.e., no cobbling up a bunch of parts
>> intended for another application, looks to fit into less
>> space than SOTI Atwood models.
>>
>> Here's their info on the Web:
>>
>> http://www.greenrvproducts.com
>>
>> (Oh yeah - almost forgot - the guys from RareParts.com were
>> there, and they are familiar with the GMC front suspension.
>> Mike Miller mentioned them in a post a little while back.
>> They supply the suppliers like Cinnabar, Golby, etc. From
>> talking to them, they could be persuaded to do more if they
>> had a more complete idea of the kinds of things needed. Not
>> just ball joints, and tie rod ends, and relay arms - that
>> kind of thing. They might be interested in developing a
>> weld-in-place lower control arm reinforcement part, or who
>> knows what else. Mostly a matter of the size of the market
>> potential.
>>
>> The GMC suspension parts are not listed on their Website nor
>> are they in the general catalog. They said one has to ask
>> for them specifically.)
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Toby Maki
>> '73 Glacier 230
>> Riverside, CA
>> _______________________________________________
>> GMCnet mailing list
>> List Information and Subscription Options:
>> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
> _______________________________________________
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| Re: [GMCnet] Girard Tankless LPG water heater [message #105194 is a reply to message #105192] |
Fri, 05 November 2010 21:02 |
 |
USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
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G'day,
Here's the spec's out of the Owners Manual.
BTU/HR 27,000 34,000
Fuel Propane (LP Gas)
Inlet Pressure 10.5 WCI Min to 14 WCI Max
Manifold Pressure 8 10 WCI
Power Input 12VDC < 3 amp
Water Operating Pressure 125 PSI Max
Max Water Temperature 125 Ί F
Dimension Width: 12.5 - Height: 12.5 - Depth 15.5
Shipping Weight 22 lbs
Regards,
Rob M.
USAussie
-----Original Message-----
From: gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org
[mailto:gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of tmaki
Sent: Friday, November 05, 2010 8:46 PM
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Girard Tankless LPG water heater
On 11/5/2010 6:28 PM, Jay Rabe wrote:
>
> Looks like a great unit, but at ~3x the price of EcoTemp, and Girard
doesn't quote any gpm specs,
The installation/owner's manual says it requires a minimum
delivery rate of 1gpm per faucet it is supplying to operate
properly. That seems to mean that it can heat all the water
you can feed it at normal RV pressures and flows, forever or
until the gas runs out, whichever comes first.
The manual clarifies things that the brochure/cut sheet
doesn't get into.
Pricey? Yeah. But nobody ever said going "green" would be
inexpensive.
Toby Maki
'73 Glacier 230
Riverside, CA
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Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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| Re: [GMCnet] Girard Tankless LPG water heater [message #105196 is a reply to message #105192] |
Fri, 05 November 2010 21:07 |
jayrabe
Messages: 509
Registered: June 2009
Location: Portland, OR
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Still, their biggest claim to green is that they only use gas when water is demanded. But all tankless heaters do that. So that's just hype. The only valid claim they might have would be in the efficiency of their combustion design, which they claim as over 90%. Fine, but would need to see similar specs for other models on the market to make a fair comparison.
J
> Date: Fri, 5 Nov 2010 18:45:30 -0700
> From: tmaki@earthlink.net
> To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
> Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Girard Tankless LPG water heater
>
> On 11/5/2010 6:28 PM, Jay Rabe wrote:
> >
> > Looks like a great unit, but at ~3x the price of EcoTemp, and Girard doesn't quote any gpm specs,
>
>
> The installation/owner's manual says it requires a minimum
> delivery rate of 1gpm per faucet it is supplying to operate
> properly. That seems to mean that it can heat all the water
> you can feed it at normal RV pressures and flows, forever or
> until the gas runs out, whichever comes first.
>
> The manual clarifies things that the brochure/cut sheet
> doesn't get into.
>
> Pricey? Yeah. But nobody ever said going "green" would be
> inexpensive.
>
>
>
> Toby Maki
> '73 Glacier 230
> Riverside, CA
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> List Information and Subscription Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
List Information and Subscription Options:
http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
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| Re: [GMCnet] Girard Tankless LPG water heater [message #105202 is a reply to message #105196] |
Fri, 05 November 2010 22:48 |
Douglas Norton
Messages: 191
Registered: April 2008
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Lets not be so negative. I like it, I want one, and I need one.
Now to the less positive. Aside from cost and availability, my concern is the 1 gallon per minute minimum. I take low volume showers at much less than 1 gallon per minute. I use a small stream of water due to limited holding tank capacity when dry camping. Two showers ago I found myself standing in water as the holding tank was full. Then when I flushed the toilet to empty it of shower water, did I get an unwelcome foot warming surprise!
Cost might not be as big an issue as low volume. I would want to know if my warranty voiding modifications to keep it running at less than a gallon per minute would work without creating a boilover or fire hazard.
Doug Norton
--- On Fri, 11/5/10, Jay Rabe <jayrabe@hotmail.com> wrote:
From: Jay Rabe <jayrabe@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Girard Tankless LPG water heater
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Date: Friday, November 5, 2010, 7:07 PM
Still, their biggest claim to green is that they only use gas when water is demanded. But all tankless heaters do that. So that's just hype. The only valid claim they might have would be in the efficiency of their combustion design, which they claim as over 90%. Fine, but would need to see similar specs for other models on the market to make a fair comparison.
J
> Date: Fri, 5 Nov 2010 18:45:30 -0700
> From: tmaki@earthlink.net
> To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
> Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Girard Tankless LPG water heater
>
> On 11/5/2010 6:28 PM, Jay Rabe wrote:
> >
> > Looks like a great unit, but at ~3x the price of EcoTemp, and Girard doesn't quote any gpm specs,
>
>
> The installation/owner's manual says it requires a minimum
> delivery rate of 1gpm per faucet it is supplying to operate
> properly. That seems to mean that it can heat all the water
> you can feed it at normal RV pressures and flows, forever or
> until the gas runs out, whichever comes first.
>
> The manual clarifies things that the brochure/cut sheet
> doesn't get into.
>
> Pricey? Yeah. But nobody ever said going "green" would be
> inexpensive.
>
>
>
> Toby Maki
> '73 Glacier 230
> Riverside, CA
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> List Information and Subscription Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
List Information and Subscription Options:
http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
_______________________________________________
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List Information and Subscription Options:
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| Re: [GMCnet] Girard Tankless LPG water heater [message #105210 is a reply to message #105202] |
Sat, 06 November 2010 00:05 |
jayrabe
Messages: 509
Registered: June 2009
Location: Portland, OR
Karma: 0
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Well I positively want a tankless heater too. It's been on my list for awhile. But the research I've done shows the Ecotemp L10 seems to be a much better buy. About $230 discounted last I checked. Specs I've seen online have been contradictory. I've seen one site that claimed it was 75Kbtu, another said 69K. Both lots more than 27-34K of the Girard. Even cheaper is the EZ101 at $135 for 42Kbtu. Gotta ask yourself how paying 4x that for less performance could possibly be worth it. Then there's the Marey 10L at 69K for $220.
Here's the photo site for Ray's installation of an Aqua which I think is also about $250 or less.
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/showgallery.php?cat=5266
I'm just sayin there are lots better buys for our GMC's out there than a product positioned for new RV's where they can pull a price that just doesn't look justified for the performance.
J
76 PB
Portland, OR
> Date: Fri, 5 Nov 2010 20:48:09 -0700
> From: nortocd@yahoo.com
> To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
> Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Girard Tankless LPG water heater
>
> Lets not be so negative. I like it, I want one, and I need one.
>
> Now to the less positive. Aside from cost and availability, my concern is the 1 gallon per minute minimum. I take low volume showers at much less than 1 gallon per minute. I use a small stream of water due to limited holding tank capacity when dry camping. Two showers ago I found myself standing in water as the holding tank was full. Then when I flushed the toilet to empty it of shower water, did I get an unwelcome foot warming surprise!
>
> Cost might not be as big an issue as low volume. I would want to know if my warranty voiding modifications to keep it running at less than a gallon per minute would work without creating a boilover or fire hazard.
>
> Doug Norton
>
> --- On Fri, 11/5/10, Jay Rabe <jayrabe@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> From: Jay Rabe <jayrabe@hotmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Girard Tankless LPG water heater
> To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
> Date: Friday, November 5, 2010, 7:07 PM
>
>
> Still, their biggest claim to green is that they only use gas when water is demanded. But all tankless heaters do that. So that's just hype. The only valid claim they might have would be in the efficiency of their combustion design, which they claim as over 90%. Fine, but would need to see similar specs for other models on the market to make a fair comparison.
>
> J
>
>
> > Date: Fri, 5 Nov 2010 18:45:30 -0700
> > From: tmaki@earthlink.net
> > To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
> > Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Girard Tankless LPG water heater
> >
> > On 11/5/2010 6:28 PM, Jay Rabe wrote:
> > >
> > > Looks like a great unit, but at ~3x the price of EcoTemp, and Girard doesn't quote any gpm specs,
> >
> >
> > The installation/owner's manual says it requires a minimum
> > delivery rate of 1gpm per faucet it is supplying to operate
> > properly. That seems to mean that it can heat all the water
> > you can feed it at normal RV pressures and flows, forever or
> > until the gas runs out, whichever comes first.
> >
> > The manual clarifies things that the brochure/cut sheet
> > doesn't get into.
> >
> > Pricey? Yeah. But nobody ever said going "green" would be
> > inexpensive.
> >
> >
> >
> > Toby Maki
> > '73 Glacier 230
> > Riverside, CA
> > _______________________________________________
> > GMCnet mailing list
> > List Information and Subscription Options:
> > http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> List Information and Subscription Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> List Information and Subscription Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
_______________________________________________
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| Re: [GMCnet] Girard Tankless LPG water heater [message #105233 is a reply to message #105192] |
Sat, 06 November 2010 11:50 |
Marsh Wilkes
Messages: 155
Registered: January 2004
Karma: -3
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Senior Member |
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----- Original Message -----
From: "tmaki" <tmaki@earthlink.net>
To: <gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org>
Sent: Friday, November 05, 2010 9:45 PM
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Girard Tankless LPG water heater
> On 11/5/2010 6:28 PM, Jay Rabe wrote:
>>
>> Looks like a great unit, but at ~3x the price of EcoTemp, and Girard
>> doesn't quote any gpm specs,
>
>
> The installation/owner's manual says it requires a minimum
> delivery rate of 1gpm per faucet it is supplying to operate
> properly. That seems to mean that it can heat all the water
> you can feed it at normal RV pressures and flows, forever or
> until the gas runs out, whichever comes first.
>
> The manual clarifies things that the brochure/cut sheet
> doesn't get into.
>
> Pricey? Yeah. But nobody ever said going "green" would be
> inexpensive.
>
>
>
> Toby Maki
> '73 Glacier 230
> Riverside, CA
Hi Toby and others,
You can compare the flow performance yourself with a few simple
calculations.
The heaters are rated in BTU/HR input, you multiply that by the efficiency
probably 70% to 90%, (the remaining 10% to 30% goes out the exhaust) then
divide that by 60 to get the BTU/MIN.
1 BTU will raise the temperature of 1 pound of water by 1 degree F, a gallon
of water weighs 8.34 LB
Multiply the GPM flow by 8.34 and divide the BTU/MIN by that figure (the
weight of the water flow in 1 minute), this will give you the temperature
rise at that flow rate at a specific BTU/HR input.
Example: 34,000 (BTU/HR input) X .9 (efficiency) = 30,600 BTU/HR / 60 = 510
BTU/MIN
Example: 1.5 GPM flow X 8.34 (LB/GAL) = 12.51 LB/MIN Now divide 510 by
12.51 this equals 40.76 degrees rise, so if you started with 70 degree water
the heater would be capable of producing 110.76 degree water continually at
a flow rate of 1.5 GPM
If the flow rate was half the rise would double, if the flow rate was double
the rise would be half.
Hope this is helpful information.
Marsh Wilkes
Perry FL
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| Re: [GMCnet] Girard Tankless LPG water heater [message #105264 is a reply to message #105187] |
Sat, 06 November 2010 15:46 |
captjack
Messages: 271
Registered: February 2010
Location: Sebastopol, California
Karma: 1
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Senior Member |
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I installed a tankless unit sort of following Ray's model. The installation went fine, but showers are an issue. If the flow is too low, you can end up with cold water. I'm still working on it, but haven't got it solved. The shower shutoffs designed for homes tend to leave a small amount of water running, but it isn't enough to keep the water heater on and when you push the button to turn the flow back on -- WOW -- what a surprise until the pipes get full of hot water again.
Jack Christensen - K6ROW,
'76 Glenbrook/Clasco - "The Silver Bullet",
Sebastopol, CA
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| Re: [GMCnet] Girard Tankless LPG water heater [message #105266 is a reply to message #105264] |
Sat, 06 November 2010 17:00 |
midlf
Messages: 2212
Registered: July 2007
Location: SE Wisc. (Palmyra)
Karma: 1
|
Senior Member |
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| captjack wrote on Sat, 06 November 2010 15:46 |
I installed a tankless unit sort of following Ray's model. The installation went fine, but showers are an issue. If the flow is too low, you can end up with cold water. I'm still working on it, but haven't got it solved. The shower shutoffs designed for homes tend to leave a small amount of water running, but it isn't enough to keep the water heater on and when you push the button to turn the flow back on -- WOW -- what a surprise until the pipes get full of hot water again.
|
Recirculating loop with pump and check valve? It would keep the flow rate up, the burner would cut back because of the input temp to the WH. That high input temp may not be allowed by the WH specs. Just a thought without much background.
Steve Southworth
1974 Glacier TZE064V100150 (for workin on)
1975 Transmode TZE365V100394 (parts & spares)
Palmyra WI
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| Re: [GMCnet] Girard Tankless LPG water heater [message #105393 is a reply to message #105210] |
Sun, 07 November 2010 18:54 |
Ray Erspamer
Messages: 1707
Registered: May 2007
Location: Milwaukee Wisconsin
Karma: -3
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Senior Member |
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Considering the Girard is a direct retrofit, PPL has it for $560.....not bad if
a person doesn't want to jag around and just do a replacement. If I recall the
last one that was a retrofit that I saw was a Precision Temp and those things
sell for around $900.
Ray
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Ray Erspamer
78 GMC Royale Center Kitchen
403, 3.70 Final Drive
Holley Sniper Quadrajet EFI System,
Holley Hyperspark Ignition System
414-484-9431
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| Re: [GMCnet] Girard Tankless LPG water heater [message #105394 is a reply to message #105243] |
Sun, 07 November 2010 19:00 |
Ray Erspamer
Messages: 1707
Registered: May 2007
Location: Milwaukee Wisconsin
Karma: -3
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Senior Member |
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This is the one I installed......40,900bth and I run it at about 60% capacity,
works incredible. $199.50
http://www.blujay.com/item/AQUAH-Liquid-Propane-Gas-Tankless-Water-Heater-6-L-1-6-gpm-11130400-3505846
Ray
Ray & Lisa Erspamer
78 Royale Center Kitchen
TZE368V101144
Wauwatosa, Wisconsin 53226
Email: 78GMC-Royale@att.net
414-745-3188
Web Site: http://ray-lisa.page.tl/
________________________________
From: John Shotwell <jshot@rtecexpress.net>
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Sent: Sat, November 6, 2010 2:20:24 PM
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Girard Tankless LPG water heater
jayrabe wrote on Sat, 06 November 2010 01:05
> Well I positively want a tankless heater too. It's been on my list for awhile.
>But the research I've done shows the Ecotemp L10 seems to be a much better buy.
>About $230 discounted last I checked. Specs I've seen online have been
>contradictory. I've seen one site that claimed it was 75Kbtu, another said 69K.
>Both lots more than 27-34K of the Girard. Even cheaper is the EZ101 at $135 for
>42Kbtu. Gotta ask yourself how paying 4x that for less performance could
>possibly be worth it. Then there's the Marey 10L at 69K for $220.
>
>
> Here's the photo site for Ray's installation of an Aqua which I think is also
>about $250 or less.
> http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/showgallery.php?cat=5266
J,
We just got an Aquah 6L for $160.00, and will be installing it this winter like
Ray and a couple of others did.
--
John Shotwell
Archbold, OH
78 Royale Center Kitchen
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Ray Erspamer
78 GMC Royale Center Kitchen
403, 3.70 Final Drive
Holley Sniper Quadrajet EFI System,
Holley Hyperspark Ignition System
414-484-9431
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| Re: [GMCnet] Girard Tankless LPG water heater [message #105395 is a reply to message #105264] |
Sun, 07 November 2010 19:03 |
Ray Erspamer
Messages: 1707
Registered: May 2007
Location: Milwaukee Wisconsin
Karma: -3
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Senior Member |
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It should work Jack, we have a switch on our shower head that shuts if off
completely and when we turn it back on we never get cold, always steaming hot
water. Play with the adjustments more.
Ray
Ray & Lisa Erspamer
78 Royale Center Kitchen
TZE368V101144
Wauwatosa, Wisconsin 53226
Email: 78GMC-Royale@att.net
414-745-3188
Web Site: http://ray-lisa.page.tl/
________________________________
From: Jack Christensen <captjack@sonic.net>
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Sent: Sat, November 6, 2010 4:46:09 PM
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Girard Tankless LPG water heater
I installed a tankless unit sort of following Ray's model. The installation
went fine, but showers are an issue. If the flow is too low, you can end up
with cold water. I'm still working on it, but haven't got it solved. The
shower shutoffs designed for homes tend to leave a small amount of water
running, but it isn't enough to keep the water heater on and when you push the
button to turn the flow back on -- WOW -- what a surprise until the pipes get
full of hot water again.
--
Jack Christensen - K6ROW,
'76 Glenbrook/Clasco, '65 Clark Cortez,
Sebastopol, CA
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Ray Erspamer
78 GMC Royale Center Kitchen
403, 3.70 Final Drive
Holley Sniper Quadrajet EFI System,
Holley Hyperspark Ignition System
414-484-9431
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