Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » Copper Line Problem
| Copper Line Problem [message #104721] |
Sun, 31 October 2010 21:32  |
Jiffyjet2
Messages: 86
Registered: November 2008
Karma: 0
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I started what I thought was a relatively simple installation in my '74 Canyon Lands. I started to put an Insta Hot unit in the counter top. The electricity is already there, so a simple "T" in the cold water line to the sink tap would get water to the new unit. The plumbing in this area is copper tubing. I disconnected the braided flex hose from the end of the copper and tried to put the "T" in...however, I couldn't get the brass fitting to connect the thing to the copper to go on the end of the tube. After much pushing and messing around, I still couldn't get the fitting to go over the end of the tube, even with new fittings, and even cutting the off the tube and starting over. Finally, I measured the OD of the original tubing. It isn't 3/8 inch (.375) the standard, it's .40! That seems to be the diameter of the all of the original tubing under the sink.
Is that the usual diameter of the tubing? If so, can I still get brass fittings that fit .40? I can't even get it back together without the Insta Hot...and I really don't want to replumb the whole coach.
Thanks for any help or insight into this annoying little issue.
After two years it's very nearly ready to roll. Just a few adjustments to the blinds and a front drape.
Cheers,
Jess Marker
'74 Canyon Lands, "the Great Pumpkin"
Tacoma, WA
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| Re: [GMCnet] Copper Line Problem [message #104725 is a reply to message #104721] |
Sun, 31 October 2010 21:50  |
Russell Mehlenbacher
Messages: 128
Registered: June 2010
Karma: 1
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Senior Member |
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>
> Is that the usual diameter of the tubing? If so, can I still get brass
> fittings that fit .40? I can't even get it back together without the Insta
> Hot...and I really don't want to replumb the whole coach.
>
> Jess Marker
> '74 Canyon Lands, "the Great Pumpkin"
> Tacoma, WA
> _______________________________________________
>
Sounds like freeze expansion. I didn't try to find a solution, as I replaced
all of it with Pex. I'd thought about reaming a flare nut to fit over the
tube and flare the tube, but never tried it. I'm sure someone has a tried
and true answer.
--
Russ & Linda Mehlenbacher
Rochester, MI
'74 X-Sequoia
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Russ & Linda Mehlenbacher
Rochester Hills, Michigan
'76 Eleganza
'74 Sequoia
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| Re: [GMCnet] Copper Line Problem [message #104727 is a reply to message #104721] |
Sun, 31 October 2010 21:49 |
emerystora
Messages: 4442
Registered: January 2004
Karma: 13
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Senior Member |
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On Oct 31, 2010, at 8:32 PM, Jiffyjet2 wrote:
>
>
> I started what I thought was a relatively simple installation in my '74 Canyon Lands. I started to put an Insta Hot unit in the counter top. The electricity is already there, so a simple "T" in the cold water line to the sink tap would get water to the new unit. The plumbing in this area is copper tubing. I disconnected the braided flex hose from the end of the copper and tried to put the "T" in...however, I couldn't get the brass fitting to connect the thing to the copper to go on the end of the tube. After much pushing and messing around, I still couldn't get the fitting to go over the end of the tube, even with new fittings, and even cutting the off the tube and starting over. Finally, I measured the OD of the original tubing. It isn't 3/8 inch (.375) the standard, it's .40! That seems to be the diameter of the all of the original tubing under the sink.
> Is that the usual diameter of the tubing? If so, can I still get brass fittings that fit .40? I can't even get it back together without the Insta Hot...and I really don't want to replumb the whole coach.
> Thanks for any help or insight into this annoying little issue.
> After two years it's very nearly ready to roll. Just a few adjustments to the blinds and a front drape.
> Cheers,
> Jess Marker
>
There is no such thing as .40 copper tubing. What has happened is that the prior owner did not winterize in time and the water in the lines froze and expanded the tubing. You will just have to replace the tubing or perhaps you can file them down to fit your fittings.
Emery Stora
77 Kingsley
Santa Fe, NM
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| Re: [GMCnet] Copper Line Problem [message #104728 is a reply to message #104721] |
Sun, 31 October 2010 22:13 |
powerjon
Messages: 2446
Registered: January 2004
Karma: 5
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Senior Member |
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Jess,
1/4" copper tubing is 0.375 OD. My SWAG is that you or the previous
owner (known as the PO) experienced water freezing in the line that
caused it to expand slightly, in your case aprox .025 inches. Your
option is to find a section of the copper that measures close to 0.375
and replace back to that point. There are no special brass fittings
that will work. The one options that may work for you is to use a
piece of hose (1/4" ID hose hose) reinforced water grade and hose
clamps to put a piece of new 1/4" tubing and then your fittings. Any
hardware store or big box store should carry what you need. Be sure
to use only all SS hose clamps, not the cheap steel ones.
J.R. Wright
On Oct 31, 2010, at 10:32 PM, Jiffyjet2 wrote:
>
>
> I started what I thought was a relatively simple installation in my
> '74 Canyon Lands. I started to put an Insta Hot unit in the counter
> top. The electricity is already there, so a simple "T" in the cold
> water line to the sink tap would get water to the new unit. The
> plumbing in this area is copper tubing. I disconnected the braided
> flex hose from the end of the copper and tried to put the "T"
> in...however, I couldn't get the brass fitting to connect the thing
> to the copper to go on the end of the tube. After much pushing and
> messing around, I still couldn't get the fitting to go over the end
> of the tube, even with new fittings, and even cutting the off the
> tube and starting over. Finally, I measured the OD of the original
> tubing. It isn't 3/8 inch (.375) the standard, it's .40! That
> seems to be the diameter of the all of the original tubing under the
> sink.
> Is that the usual diameter of the tubing? If so, can I still get
> brass fittings that fit .40? I can't even get it back together
> without the Insta Hot...and I really don't want to replumb the whole
> coach.
> Thanks for any help or insight into this annoying little issue.
> After two years it's very nearly ready to roll. Just a few
> adjustments to the blinds and a front drape.
> Cheers,
> Jess Marker
> '74 Canyon Lands, "the Great Pumpkin"
> Tacoma, WA
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
List Information and Subscription Options:
http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
J.R. Wright
GMC GreatLaker
GMC Eastern States
GMCMI
78 30' Buskirk Stretch
75 Avion Under Reconstruction
Michigan
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| Re: [GMCnet] Copper Line Problem [message #104729 is a reply to message #104727] |
Sun, 31 October 2010 22:17 |
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mike miller
Messages: 3576
Registered: February 2004
Location: Hillsboro, Oregon
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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| emerystora wrote on Sun, 31 October 2010 19:49 |
>...
> I measured the OD of the original tubing. It isn't 3/8 inch
> (.375) the standard, it's .40! That seems to be the diameter
> of the all of the original tubing under the sink.
> Is that the usual diameter of the tubing?
There is no such thing as .40 copper tubing. What has happened is that the prior owner did not winterize in time and the water in the lines froze and expanded the tubing. ...
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Note that copper expands, but doesn't contract back. (much) The next freeze it starts at the expanded diameter meaning it will get even easier to split after each freeze/thaw cycle.
I would plan on replacing all the lines sometime... But until you do, be sure to winterize properly.
Mike Miller -- Hillsboro, OR -- on the Black list
(#2)`78 23' Birchaven Rear Bath -- (#3)`77 23' Birchaven Side Bath
More Sidekicks than GMC's and a late model Malibu called 'Boo'
http://m000035.blogspot.com
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| Re: Copper Line Problem [message #104732 is a reply to message #104731] |
Sun, 31 October 2010 23:30 |
Craig Lechowicz
Messages: 541
Registered: October 2006
Location: Waterford, MI
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Jess,
This must be pretty common. I went through something similar over the summer. The PO had put really cheap vinyl hose over mine, which blew out when I started using the hot water a lot. I spent probably an hour at a really good local hardware store, and they gave me the frozen explanation as well, saying all Moen faucets (which is my factory original) had 3/8" copper.
After looking at every fitting in the store, I found a 1/2" copper street ell. The normally female end of the street ell just slipped over the "expanded" 3/8" tubing, and I soldered that in place, then used adapter fittings to hook back up to the old plastic hose in the GMC.
Although, my Moen faucet now has a drip in it again, despite replacing the cartridge two years ago, so I wish I would have just changed the whole faucet instead of spending $20 to hook up one I don't like much anyway.
Craig Lechowicz
'77 Kingsley, Waterford, MI
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| Re: Copper Line Problem [message #104755 is a reply to message #104743] |
Mon, 01 November 2010 09:46 |
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Matt Colie
Messages: 8547
Registered: March 2007
Location: S.E. Michigan
Karma: 7
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Senior Member |
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| Jiffyjet2 wrote on Mon, 01 November 2010 03:56 |
Thanks so much for the information. I think I'll just replace the line from the nearest flared joint (about 2 1/2 feel) with a new piece of 3/8" tubing and the rest will be a piece of cake.
This forum is absolutely incredible for getting expertise, information and ideas. An unbelievable resource.
Jess Marker
'74 Canyon Lands "the Great Pumpkin"
Tacoma, WA
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Jess,
If it is possible to replace the run of tubing, that is absolutely the best solution.
I had the same problem when I went to do some work under the sink in the head.
There is, however, a patch trick in my book of cheap and sleazy fixes:
Cut the expanded tube carefully,
Use a torch to heat it to just below incandescence for about a minute (the thin wall does not take long to re-crystalize).
Swage the end to size with your flaring block (what the clamp part of a flaring tool set is called). Take 2 bites if you need it to size for longer than one - like to slide on a flare nut.
Clean it well if you are going to solder it.
Anneal it again if you are going to flare it.
This trick works once (if you are both lucky and careful).
Do not count on it working twice.
Matt
Matt & Mary Colie - Chaumière -'73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan with OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Near DTW - Twixt A2 and Detroit
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| Re: [GMCnet] Copper Line Problem [message #104893 is a reply to message #104880] |
Tue, 02 November 2010 21:34 |
Jiffyjet2
Messages: 86
Registered: November 2008
Karma: 0
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Member |
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Thanks again for the info. I wasn't aware of the soft copper/hard copper issue. I bought some, but now I'll need to back up and see what I bought, since I'm using a flare at one end and a compression at the other. I think I have the soft stuff since it's the same diameter as the old stuff, we'll see.
Jess Marker
'74 Canyon Lands "the Great Pumpkin"
Tacoma, WA
Jess
'74 Canyonlands
"the Great Pumpkin"
Tacoma, Washington
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