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Lug centered wheels [message #103708] Thu, 21 October 2010 18:13 Go to next message
Duce Apocalypse is currently offline  Duce Apocalypse   Canada
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Well my new wheels were delivered yesterday, they look great but are lug centered type. Is it even worth getting someone to spin some hub centering rings or just run as is? There is so much meat on the lug seat of these wheels, and they weigh about 40# each so I'm wondering if its even worth the effort. They look like they will bolt up just fine....

73 Canyon Lands, (a.k.a. The Yellow Submarine) West Los Angeles CA
Re: [GMCnet] Lug centered wheels [message #103710 is a reply to message #103708] Thu, 21 October 2010 18:30 Go to previous messageGo to next message
James Hupy is currently offline  James Hupy   United States
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Shan, By lug centered, do you mean that the wheels have a chamfer or bevel
cut around the holes where mounting studs protruce through the wheel? What
kind of lug nuts are you going to use with the wheels? If the face of the
wheels are flat, then tapered lug nuts should not be used with the wheels.
If this is what you have, flat face, then the lug nut with the wide clamping
shoulder should be used. With this type of setup, there is a definite
advantage to have centering rings in my opinion. Again you are likely to get
opinions that vary a great deal on this subject.
Jim Hupy
Salem, Or
78 Royale 403 w/16" steel wheels with centering rings.

On Thu, Oct 21, 2010 at 4:13 PM, Shan Rose <defconfx@gmail.com> wrote:

>
>
> Well my new wheels were delivered yesterday, they look great but are lug
> centered type. Is it even worth getting someone to spin some hub centering
> rings or just run as is? There is so much meat on the lug seat of these
> wheels, and they weigh about 40# each so I'm wondering if its even worth the
> effort. They look like they will bolt up just fine....
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
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>
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Re: [GMCnet] Lug centered wheels [message #103711 is a reply to message #103708] Thu, 21 October 2010 18:38 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Gary Worobec is currently offline  Gary Worobec   United States
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Shan, If they are Eagles I'd just bolt them up. It's what I did and with
proper balancing you should have no issues.

Thanks

Gary and Joanne Worobec
1973 GMC Glacier
Anza, CA


----- Original Message -----
From: "Shan Rose" <defconfx@gmail.com>
To: <gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org>
Sent: Thursday, October 21, 2010 4:13 PM
Subject: [GMCnet] Lug centered wheels


>
>
> Well my new wheels were delivered yesterday, they look great but are lug
> centered type. Is it even worth getting someone to spin some hub centering
> rings or just run as is? There is so much meat on the lug seat of these
> wheels, and they weigh about 40# each so I'm wondering if its even worth
> the effort. They look like they will bolt up just fine....
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> List Information and Subscription Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist

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Re: Lug centered wheels [message #103712 is a reply to message #103708] Thu, 21 October 2010 18:49 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Chr$ is currently offline  Chr$   United States
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if they are eagles, use "Mag-Lug's". these nuts have a shank that sleeves into the hole on the wheel but does not bottom out. This centers them. I have these. they work. They also come with washers. you cannot use tapered lug-nuts. they will not work.

-Chr$: Perpetual SmartAss
Scottsdale, AZ

77 Ex-Kingsley 455 SOLD!
2010 Nomad 24 Ft TT 390W PV W/MPPT, EV4010 and custom cargo door.
Photosite: Chrisc GMC:"It has Begun" TT: "The Other Woman"
Re: Lug centered wheels [message #103715 is a reply to message #103712] Thu, 21 October 2010 19:06 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Dr. Detroit is currently offline  Dr. Detroit   United States
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Yep, My eagles run perfectly using the same lug/washer combo too.

1973 GMC 23' All Birch and Maple Interior Cabinetry. TZE033V100221 "The Honeycomb Hideout"
Re: Lug centered wheels [message #103725 is a reply to message #103708] Thu, 21 October 2010 21:14 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Duce Apocalypse is currently offline  Duce Apocalypse   United States
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Well they are not eagles but rather KMC "rockstar" XD775. This style of wheel is probably a bit more "out there" then what most here would want, but it firs into the theme I had planned for my rig, and heck I got 7 of them shipped to me for 1,037 from 4wheel online. They use the 60* conical seat lug nuts. They do have about a half inch of meat between the mounting face and lugnut bevel, so short shank nuts may be possible to be used...

73 Canyon Lands, (a.k.a. The Yellow Submarine) West Los Angeles CA
Re: [GMCnet] Lug centered wheels [message #103726 is a reply to message #103725] Thu, 21 October 2010 21:37 Go to previous messageGo to next message
USAussie is currently offline  USAussie   United States
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Shan,

WOW they sure are a world away from the Alcoa's and Eagle's that's for sure!
I'm looking forward to seeing the theme for your GMC. I suspect it won't be
your Granddad's GMC! ;-)

Regards,
Rob M.
USAussie

-----Original Message-----
From: gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org
[mailto:gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of Shan Rose
Sent: Thursday, October 21, 2010 9:15 PM
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Lug centered wheels



Well they are not eagles but rather KMC "rockstar" XD775. This style of
wheel is probably a bit more "out there" then what most here would want, but
it firs into the theme I had planned for my rig, and heck I got 7 of them
shipped to me for 1,037 from 4wheel online. They use the 60* conical seat
lug nuts. They do have about a half inch of meat between the mounting face
and lugnut bevel, so short shank nuts may be possible to be used...
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Regards, Rob M. (USAussie) The Pedantic Mechanic Sydney, Australia '75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428 '75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
Re: Lug centered wheels [message #103727 is a reply to message #103708] Thu, 21 October 2010 21:40 Go to previous messageGo to next message
kingd is currently offline  kingd   Canada
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Duce, a wheel as it exists is designed for a specific stle of lug nut, flat faced like oiginal GMC, cone seat, ball seat, "mag nut:(the kind that fit closely in a bored hole in an aluminum rim)and possbly others that I can't rhime off right now. ABSOLUTELY only the intended design nut MUST be used. Now the good part. Some aluminum wheels can be converted from cone to "mag-nut" by boring the appropriate hole, and don't screw up the bolt circle while doing this. You need to find out which style of nuts are specified for your wheels. Anything else is DANGEROUS !!!!

DAVE KING


DAVE KING lurker, wannabe Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Re: Lug centered wheels [message #103728 is a reply to message #103708] Thu, 21 October 2010 21:53 Go to previous messageGo to next message
gmchunter is currently offline  gmchunter   United States
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Nice looking wheel. My only concern beyond the lug nuts would be the design specifications. Will this wheel hold up to the weight and stress of a 12000 lb GMC?

Michael
Re: Lug centered wheels [message #103729 is a reply to message #103725] Thu, 21 October 2010 22:10 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Ken Burton is currently offline  Ken Burton   United States
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Duce Apocalypse wrote on Thu, 21 October 2010 21:14

Well they are not eagles but rather KMC "rockstar" XD775. This style of wheel is probably a bit more "out there" then what most here would want, but it firs into the theme I had planned for my rig, and heck I got 7 of them shipped to me for 1,037 from 4wheel online. They use the 60* conical seat lug nuts. They do have about a half inch of meat between the mounting face and lugnut bevel, so short shank nuts may be possible to be used...


I wish people would quit calling "hub centered wheels" "lug centered wheels". If your wheels came with 60* nuts and 60* holes then just install them. You have true lug centered wheels. The wheels will center on the conical lug nuts when installed.

"Hub centered wheels", which both the Alcoas and the Eagles most of us have been buying, have a flat surface around the bolt holes and a flat washer between the nut that clamps the wheel to the hub.

Where we are getting into terminology problems here because some people, like myself, are buying Eagle wheels for later model GM trucks that have a slightly larger (.031") center hole. These are still hub centered. It says so right on the Eagle box. Only the center hole diameter is different. These type of wheels use the same flat surface clamping technique as the Alcoas and .031" smaller diameter center hole Eagles that Jim K. had specially made.

If you using the larger centering hole wheels like mine, a centering adapter could be made but it would have to be .015" or .0155" thick. When I first got my wheels I made some of these out of shim stock and installed them. It was a waste of time because the wheels centered right up on the supplied shouldered nuts and flat washers during installation. The shim stock spacers fell out in the first mile of driving.

Even if they did not center, could you tell a .015" difference in a tire diameter? I can't. A new tire off the shelf is 10 times more than that to out of round.

If you want to differentiate between the two GM hub centered wheels, I suggest you call them large center bore and smaller center bore hub centered wheels. This will eliminate the confusion when someone comes along with a true lug centered wheel like Duce has.





Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
Re: Lug centered wheels [message #103735 is a reply to message #103728] Thu, 21 October 2010 22:58 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Duce Apocalypse is currently offline  Duce Apocalypse   Canada
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gmchunter wrote on Thu, 21 October 2010 21:53

Nice looking wheel. My only concern beyond the lug nuts would be the design specifications. Will this wheel hold up to the weight and stress of a 12000 lb GMC?

Michael


Michael, considering the app these wheels were intended (a GMC 3500 dually) I don't think weight will be much of an issue. Each one of these have a stamp on the back not to exceed 3400# per wheel! So with 6 of them on the coach I don't think they will see anything close to that. The mounting face is 31mm thick, this is a pretty beefy wheel, I must say I was skeptical because of the price, but now I can't wait to get some rubber on them and mount them up...


73 Canyon Lands, (a.k.a. The Yellow Submarine) West Los Angeles CA
Re: [GMCnet] Lug centered wheels [message #103747 is a reply to message #103735] Fri, 22 October 2010 01:13 Go to previous messageGo to next message
ljdavick is currently offline  ljdavick   United States
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My buddy has Rockstars on his Chevy Avalanche. They give it a nice edge.

Larry Davick


On Oct 21, 2010, at 8:58 PM, Shan Rose <defconfx@gmail.com> wrote:

>
>
> gmchunter wrote on Thu, 21 October 2010 21:53
>> Nice looking wheel. My only concern beyond the lug nuts would be the design specifications. Will this wheel hold up to the weight and stress of a 12000 lb GMC?
>>
>> Michael
>
>
> Michael, considering the app these wheels were intended (a GMC 3500 dually) I don't think weight will be much of an issue. Each one of these have a stamp on the back not to exceed 3400# per wheel! So with 6 of them on the coach I don't think they will see anything close to that. The mounting face is 31mm thick, this is a pretty beefy wheel, I must say I was skeptical because of the price, but now I can't wait to get some rubber on them and mount them up...
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Larry Davick
A Mystery Machine
1976(ish) Palm Beach
Fremont, Ca
Howell EFI + EBL + Electronic Dizzy
Re: [GMCnet] Lug centered wheels [message #103781 is a reply to message #103747] Fri, 22 October 2010 11:29 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Dr. Detroit is currently offline  Dr. Detroit   United States
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Mount em up and put up a pic. Can't wait to see them.

As for hub centric versus lug centric the debate of how centered the wheel is using either method will rage on forever. My Eagles are not hub centric and yet they are as smooth as silk on the road. I take my time when installing them to make sure nothing is binding and every lug is very gently twisted on by hand and lightly seated before I begin any torque sequence. (FWIW I use 140 ft/lbs on my wheels)

So if you take your conical seat wheels and do the same I have no doubt that they will also run true.

That said there are a couple of advantages to the hubcentric wheels. The first is ease of assembly. Get the wheel up, line up the studs with the holes, push it on to the hub, lightly seat the lugs then torque in sequence. I'm sure a minute or two per wheel is saved verses the way I do it. Second, the hubcentric wheel transfers it's load to the hub and does not load the wheel studs for anything other than clamping. As a result a higher load carrying capacity is possible by not having to deal with shear forces on the studs.

Now does that mean all of us without hubcentric wheels are doomed? I doubt it. While I have not done the calculations, I would tend to believe that the shear forces required to break eight 9/16" wheel studs greatly exceed what is required to break other things like the tire/wheel and or other suspension components first. However we must keep in mind that proper lug nut torque at all times is paramount. If the lugs are loose and there is the slightest bit of movement in the shearing direction things can go bad very quickly.

Ken Wolkens


1973 GMC 23' All Birch and Maple Interior Cabinetry. TZE033V100221 "The Honeycomb Hideout"
Re: [GMCnet] Lug centered wheels [message #103782 is a reply to message #103781] Fri, 22 October 2010 11:38 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Dr. Detroit is currently offline  Dr. Detroit   United States
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Oh yes, I forgot to mention that Hub Centric wheels are generally less expensive to manufacture. By having only one hole in the wheel that has a tight positional and dimensional tolerance the manufacturer saves $ on the tooling, equipment and fixturing. This is possible because the wheel stud holes can be larger in diameter thus allowing a relaxed tolerance on them and still allow them to clear the wheel studs.

The exception is when a wheel gets it's hubcentric bore in a special operation like the ones Jim K. sells. In that case it's a special setup and a short run which leads to his slight (albeit very fair) cost increase.

Ken Wolkens


1973 GMC 23' All Birch and Maple Interior Cabinetry. TZE033V100221 "The Honeycomb Hideout"

[Updated on: Fri, 22 October 2010 11:39]

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Re: Lug centered wheels [message #103930 is a reply to message #103708] Sat, 23 October 2010 17:59 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Duce Apocalypse is currently offline  Duce Apocalypse   United States
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Well hopefully I can get some tires mounted inthe next week or so and then I'll get some pix up. I got the matt black rockstars, since when I painted my steel whels black I liked the look, and ultimately I plan a black/gun metal paint scheme so they RS wheels will play right in with it. I actually liked the eagle 129 wheels but unfortunately they didnt make it with a black finish. while surfing a site for whels I stumbled on the KMC's and really dug the design. I'm sure I'll probably be the only coach with such wheels on it, as I dont think anyone else would think of putting Rockstars on anything but a lifted truck or SUV. the Wheels are import, which of course made me a little suspect, but I have not hear of anyone having problems with them, and after examining the product, I can say it seems to be well made, and has a lot of beef on the mounting plate, and a very heavy weight rating, so we'll see how it goes. best part was the price was kind of hard to beat, 7 wheels for $1,037 bux delivered, had the wheels in 2 days!

73 Canyon Lands, (a.k.a. The Yellow Submarine) West Los Angeles CA
Re: Lug centered wheels [message #103934 is a reply to message #103708] Sat, 23 October 2010 18:12 Go to previous messageGo to next message
cjonesgo is currently offline  cjonesgo   United States
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I am very curious to see these wheels on your coach! Could you please post which wheels you ended up with? Offset, part number etc. Thanks.
I too am looking at alternative options for wheels, though do like the idea of the proven setups of Alcoa and Eagles. I'd be very interested to hear any comments on ride quality, difficulty of alignment etc. as I prefer the look of the rockstars. Especially in the matte black!

Out of curiosity, does anyone have any experience in mounting their front wheels with the concave facing out? Seems like that would be a fast way to widen the stance of the front end without the need for additional spacers. I don't have any experience with this, and there is probably a simple answer, but is there a reason I have not seen anyones coach running this setup? The wheels (Alcoa, Eagle, Rockstar...) are all designed to be mounted in either direction, and depending on the offset, may be within the desired spacing when mounted in reverse of what everyone seems to be running. Perhaps the width gained is simply more than what we need on the front?
Re: Lug centered wheels [message #103939 is a reply to message #103934] Sat, 23 October 2010 19:15 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Duce Apocalypse is currently offline  Duce Apocalypse   United States
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here is the link to the wheels. http://4wheelonline.com/KMC_XD775_Rockstar_Dually_Wheels_Matte_Black.136394.458659

Basically you want all front wheels, 99+ offset with 7.40 backspacing and 8x6.5 bolt circle.

I'm probably gonna run Maxxis 761 bravo tires shown here here, http://www.onlinetires.com/products/vehicle/tires/maxxis/225%252F75-16+maxxis+ma-761+n%252Fa.html everything I have read about them is positive, and the price is tough to beat.

as for ride quality, I cant imagine they would be worse then the old mix-n-match 16.5 tires on the coach right now. the maxxis is a true 3 ply LRE tire, and has a good compound and tread design.

as for inverse mouning the tire, I think if you have seen the backside of these rims you would understand why this is a baaaad idea. aside from looking like ass, which defeats the entire asthetic purpose of putting rims on the coach, the weight will be distrubuted unevenly, will almost certainly void any warranty on the wheels, and will probably screw up all sorts of stuff on the coach itself. its better just to run the machined aluminum spacers if you really wanna push the track out IMHO.

will put up pix as soon as the wheels are on!



cjonesgo wrote on Sat, 23 October 2010 18:12

I am very curious to see these wheels on your coach! Could you please post which wheels you ended up with? Offset, part number etc. Thanks.
I too am looking at alternative options for wheels, though do like the idea of the proven setups of Alcoa and Eagles. I'd be very interested to hear any comments on ride quality, difficulty of alignment etc. as I prefer the look of the rockstars. Especially in the matte black!

Out of curiosity, does anyone have any experience in mounting their front wheels with the concave facing out? Seems like that would be a fast way to widen the stance of the front end without the need for additional spacers. I don't have any experience with this, and there is probably a simple answer, but is there a reason I have not seen anyones coach running this setup? The wheels (Alcoa, Eagle, Rockstar...) are all designed to be mounted in either direction, and depending on the offset, may be within the desired spacing when mounted in reverse of what everyone seems to be running. Perhaps the width gained is simply more than what we need on the front?



73 Canyon Lands, (a.k.a. The Yellow Submarine) West Los Angeles CA

[Updated on: Sat, 23 October 2010 19:16]

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Re: [GMCnet] Lug centered wheels [message #103947 is a reply to message #103934] Sat, 23 October 2010 20:46 Go to previous messageGo to next message
USAussie is currently offline  USAussie   United States
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I've never seen a GMC with the front wheels mounted like that.

Go out to your GMC, jack it up, remove the front wheel, turn it around and
put it back on the hub.

When you're done let us know what you discover.

Regards,
Rob M.
USAussie

-----Original Message-----
From: gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org
[mailto:gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of corey jones
Sent: Saturday, October 23, 2010 6:13 PM
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Lug centered wheels

I am very curious to see these wheels on your coach! Could you please post
which wheels you ended up with? Offset, part number etc. Thanks.
I too am looking at alternative options for wheels, though do like the
idea of the proven setups of Alcoa and Eagles. I'd be very interested to
hear any comments on ride quality, difficulty of alignment etc. as I prefer
the look of the rockstars. Especially in the matte black!

Out of curiosity, does anyone have any experience in mounting their front
wheels with the concave facing out? Seems like that would be a fast way to
widen the stance of the front end without the need for additional spacers.
I don't have any experience with this, and there is probably a simple
answer, but is there a reason I have not seen anyones coach running this
setup? The wheels (Alcoa, Eagle, Rockstar...) are all designed to be
mounted in either direction, and depending on the offset, may be within the
desired spacing when mounted in reverse of what everyone seems to be
running. Perhaps the width gained is simply more than what we need on the
front?
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Regards, Rob M. (USAussie) The Pedantic Mechanic Sydney, Australia '75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428 '75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
Re: [GMCnet] Lug centered wheels [message #103975 is a reply to message #103939] Sun, 24 October 2010 08:51 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Charles is currently offline  Charles   United States
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Senior Member
Did I miss an email that mentioned they only come in 17
and 18 inch diameters?
Charles
----- Original Message -----
From: "Shan Rose" <defconfx@gmail.com>
To: <gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org>
Sent: Saturday, October 23, 2010 7:15 PM
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Lug centered wheels


>
>
> here is the link to the wheels.
> http://4wheelonline.com/KMC_XD775_Rockstar_Dually_Wheels_Matte_Black.136394.458659
>
> Basically you want all front wheels, 99+ offset with 7.40 backspacing and
> 8x6.5 bolt circle.
>
> I'm probably gonna run Maxxis 761 bravo tires shown
> here,http://www.onlinetires.com/products/vehicle/tires/maxxis/225%252F75-16+maxxis+ma-761+n%252Fa.html
> everything I have read about them is positive, and the price is tough to
> beat.
>
> as for ride quality, I cant imagine they would be worse then the old
> mix-n-match 16.5 tires on the coach right now. the maxxis is a true 3 ply
> LRE tire, and has a good compound and tread design.
>
> as for inverse mouning the tire, I think if you have seen the backside of
> these rims you would understand why this is a baaaad idea. aside from
> looking like ass, which defeats the entire asthetic purpose of putting
> rims on the coach, the weight will be distrubuted unevenly, will almost
> certainly void any warranty on the wheels, and will probably screw up all
> sorts of stuff on the coach itself. its better just to run the machined
> aluminum spacers if you really wanna push the track out IMHO.
>
> will put up pix as soon as the wheels are on!
>
>
>
> cjonesgo wrote on Sat, 23 October 2010 18:12
>> I am very curious to see these wheels on your coach! Could you please
>> post which wheels you ended up with? Offset, part number etc. Thanks.
>> I too am looking at alternative options for wheels, though do like the
>> idea of the proven setups of Alcoa and Eagles. I'd be very interested to
>> hear any comments on ride quality, difficulty of alignment etc. as I
>> prefer the look of the rockstars. Especially in the matte black!
>>
>> Out of curiosity, does anyone have any experience in mounting their front
>> wheels with the concave facing out? Seems like that would be a fast way
>> to widen the stance of the front end without the need for additional
>> spacers. I don't have any experience with this, and there is probably a
>> simple answer, but is there a reason I have not seen anyones coach
>> running this setup? The wheels (Alcoa, Eagle, Rockstar...) are all
>> designed to be mounted in either direction, and depending on the offset,
>> may be within the desired spacing when mounted in reverse of what
>> everyone seems to be running. Perhaps the width gained is simply more
>> than what we need on the front?
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> List Information and Subscription Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist

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Charles Wersal
Duncanville, Texas
26 foot 1975 Glenbrook
Pandora's Box

Re: [GMCnet] Lug centered wheels [message #103996 is a reply to message #103975] Sun, 24 October 2010 11:27 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
Carl S. is currently offline  Carl S.   United States
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Senior Member

Shan,

I am running 16" X 8" Dodge alloy wheels with 255/70R/16 BFG All Terrain KOs on the front only, of my coach:

http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/showgallery.php?cat=5521

They are lug centered and use the 60 degree conical nuts. I was concerned about them, because I had heard stories about lug centered wheels working loose. I torqued them to the Dodge spec (135 - 140 ft lbs, I believe) and re-checked the torque several times during the next 400 - 500 miles of use. Initially the lug nuts took about 1/8 of a turn to get them back up to spec (at about 35 miles). This is typical of any alloy wheel and it is recommended that they be re-torqued after a certain number of miles. I haven't had a problem with them yet and they run nice and true. I checked the torque at the last stop on our Tucson to Salt Lake to Vegas (for the GMCWS Rally) and back to Tucson trip, and they were still at spec. I think Rick D. pointed out that the lug nuts provide enough 'clamping force' to hold the wheels against the hub tightly enough that they cannot move.

Get the lug nuts that are recommended for your application, and do not over tighten them. Remember, the new nuts will not have as deep threads, because of the increased thickness of the rim centers, so they will not handle the torque values of the original steel wheels.

I think those rims will look great on your GMC!


Carl Stouffer '75 ex Palm Beach Tucson, AZ. Chuck Aulgur Reaction Arm Disc Brakes, Quadrabags, 3.70 LSD final drive, Lenzi knuckles/hubs, Dodge Truck 16" X 8" front wheels, Rear American Eagles, Solar battery charging. GMCSJ and GMCMI member
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