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| [GMCnet] kitchen water pressure mystery... [message #103570] |
Wed, 20 October 2010 11:46  |
greg
Messages: 17
Registered: May 2004
Karma: 0
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Junior Member |
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Well after last week's "gas tank mystery", i figured we were on a roll
with the liquids coursing through the coach,
so i have another query ***
Our kitchen water pressure has been dropping, now to the point un-
usability.. yep, i've been doing dishes in the bathroom sink, 'cause
the water pressure there is just fine. incidentally, its an Eleganza
II, and i don't 'think' there were any modifications done by the
previous owner. I've had the coach for 12 years... and i've installed
new water pumps twice already in that period of time. most recently
last summer, with the
FloJet "Quiet Quad".... model 4406-143 type IV, a mid-priced model...
http://www.campingworld.com/shopping/item/flojet-quiet-quad-ii-water-pump/9372
I was a sucker for the "Quiet" feature, since the thing lives under
the bed!
BTW: Both times i replaced the pumps, the old pumps were never totally
dead. the most recent swap was because the pump sounded super-weak
when priming.... it sounded like it was on its way out,.. and it was
10 years old, so...
After we swapped it, the new pump was quieter, but we didn't get the
gain in water pressure we were hoping for. And now, slowly
deteriorating over the course of a year and a half, the water pressure
is un-usable in the kitchen.
Well, we've already checked for kinks in the line leading to the
kitchen. Couldn't get completely under the headliner,
but we WERE able to pull the lines back and forth a bit, to ensure
that they weren't restricted. We ran the sink while pushing and
pulling on the lines, and we could see a LITTLE bit of better
pressure... modulating in time to the pushing/pulling, but certainly
not the "ah ha!" we were hoping for.... not a huge difference.
Next, we hooked up the city water supply (which i've NEVER used, in
all my years of owning this thing!),
and voila, the kitchen faucet had what i'd consider near-normal
pressure. So....
i'm under the impression that my water system is tight, because the
pump doesn't prime itself very much.
in fact, it seems like there's been an actual drop-off in the amount
of priming lately;
which might actually be a cause for suspicion. Maybe this relatively
new pump is getting weaker?
So before i shell out for a new more powerful water pump, and/or
before we try adding an accumulator (having read previous threads in
list archives).... maybe i'm stabbing in the dark here, but i'm
wondering if there might be an old accumulator hidden somewhere in the
system, and maybe its starting to go faulty?
Yeah, the pump doesnt turn on right away when i turn on a faucet.
there's usually at least a few seconds delay,
but i'm guessing that's probably normal for an accumulator-free system.
But i've got to ask, in order to rule things out: Were accumulators
EVER stock items in Eleganza II's or other models? And where would
somebody 'hide' an accumulator, if its not immediately visible in the
system?
And if the solution is as simple as a stronger pump and/or
accumulator, then so be it.
I wouldn't mind shelling out for the ShurFlo 5.7 Extreme, which i've
read about on the list archives,
but on the other hand, i don't want something so strong that it
exposes any weakness in my plumbing system,
and suddenly i've got leaks where i never had em before... Is this a
serious concern?
And lastly, is the ShurFlo 5.7 Extreme louder than your average pump?
OK, so thanks for reading my epic mystery series... and thanks in
advance for any advice... as always!
I wish i had greater ability to ANSWER other people's questions on
this list, as opposed to always ASKING.
*** And i think i'll start a new thread to express my appreciation for
the help i've received!
cheers,
Greg
...with the dual SolarSonic RVs / Los Angeles
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| Re: [GMCnet] kitchen water pressure mystery... [message #103580 is a reply to message #103570] |
Wed, 20 October 2010 13:29  |
Marsh Wilkes
Messages: 155
Registered: January 2004
Karma: -3
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Senior Member |
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Hi Dan,
I was about to sugest this, SEE AERATOR AND POT POST.
Marsh "still kick'n" Wilkes
Perry Fl
----- Original Message -----
From: "greg" <eklektro@gmail.com>
To: <gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org>
Sent: Wednesday, October 20, 2010 12:46 PM
Subject: [GMCnet] kitchen water pressure mystery...
> Well after last week's "gas tank mystery", i figured we were on a roll
> with the liquids coursing through the coach,
> so i have another query ***
>
> Our kitchen water pressure has been dropping, now to the point un-
> usability.. yep, i've been doing dishes in the bathroom sink, 'cause
> the water pressure there is just fine. incidentally, its an Eleganza
> II, and i don't 'think' there were any modifications done by the
> previous owner. I've had the coach for 12 years... and i've installed
> new water pumps twice already in that period of time. most recently
> last summer, with the
> FloJet "Quiet Quad".... model 4406-143 type IV, a mid-priced model...
> http://www.campingworld.com/shopping/item/flojet-quiet-quad-ii-water-pump/9372
> I was a sucker for the "Quiet" feature, since the thing lives under
> the bed!
> BTW: Both times i replaced the pumps, the old pumps were never totally
> dead. the most recent swap was because the pump sounded super-weak
> when priming.... it sounded like it was on its way out,.. and it was
> 10 years old, so...
> After we swapped it, the new pump was quieter, but we didn't get the
> gain in water pressure we were hoping for. And now, slowly
> deteriorating over the course of a year and a half, the water pressure
> is un-usable in the kitchen.
>
> Well, we've already checked for kinks in the line leading to the
> kitchen. Couldn't get completely under the headliner,
> but we WERE able to pull the lines back and forth a bit, to ensure
> that they weren't restricted. We ran the sink while pushing and
> pulling on the lines, and we could see a LITTLE bit of better
> pressure... modulating in time to the pushing/pulling, but certainly
> not the "ah ha!" we were hoping for.... not a huge difference.
> Next, we hooked up the city water supply (which i've NEVER used, in
> all my years of owning this thing!),
> and voila, the kitchen faucet had what i'd consider near-normal
> pressure. So....
>
> i'm under the impression that my water system is tight, because the
> pump doesn't prime itself very much.
> in fact, it seems like there's been an actual drop-off in the amount
> of priming lately;
> which might actually be a cause for suspicion. Maybe this relatively
> new pump is getting weaker?
>
> So before i shell out for a new more powerful water pump, and/or
> before we try adding an accumulator (having read previous threads in
> list archives).... maybe i'm stabbing in the dark here, but i'm
> wondering if there might be an old accumulator hidden somewhere in the
> system, and maybe its starting to go faulty?
> Yeah, the pump doesnt turn on right away when i turn on a faucet.
> there's usually at least a few seconds delay,
> but i'm guessing that's probably normal for an accumulator-free system.
> But i've got to ask, in order to rule things out: Were accumulators
> EVER stock items in Eleganza II's or other models? And where would
> somebody 'hide' an accumulator, if its not immediately visible in the
> system?
>
> And if the solution is as simple as a stronger pump and/or
> accumulator, then so be it.
> I wouldn't mind shelling out for the ShurFlo 5.7 Extreme, which i've
> read about on the list archives,
> but on the other hand, i don't want something so strong that it
> exposes any weakness in my plumbing system,
> and suddenly i've got leaks where i never had em before... Is this a
> serious concern?
> And lastly, is the ShurFlo 5.7 Extreme louder than your average pump?
>
> OK, so thanks for reading my epic mystery series... and thanks in
> advance for any advice... as always!
> I wish i had greater ability to ANSWER other people's questions on
> this list, as opposed to always ASKING.
> *** And i think i'll start a new thread to express my appreciation for
> the help i've received!
> cheers,
> Greg
> ...with the dual SolarSonic RVs / Los Angeles
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> List Information and Subscription Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
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| Re: [GMCnet] kitchen water pressure mystery... [message #103610 is a reply to message #103570] |
Wed, 20 October 2010 18:28 |
Gail Marks Cruiser
Messages: 125
Registered: August 2009
Location: Gold Coast, Australia
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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G'day,
Always hard diagnosing things from a-far, but my thinking is if you have good water pressure in the bathroom, the pumps not to blame. When accumulators "go" they stop storing pressure and if adjustable can leak through the schrader valve.
My first thought was does the kitchen tap run through a water filter? We had the same thing happen with our reverse osmosis water filter here at home, slowly decresing pressure due to blocked filters.
If you get reasonable flow on mains hook-up, even though your regulator valve should drop your pressure to near the pumps out put, but still it must be enough of a difference to increase the flow through the blockage.
I am probably stating the obvious ,but you could hook the tap up directly to a hose, if it works well you can rule it out too.
Mark Bennett
Gail & Mark's Cruiser
Gold Coast, Australia.
Motorhoming Lifestyle.com
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| Re: [GMCnet] kitchen water pressure mystery... [message #103616 is a reply to message #103570] |
Wed, 20 October 2010 18:56 |
roy1
Messages: 2126
Registered: July 2004
Location: Minden nevada
Karma: 6
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Senior Member |
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Greg;
You are not alone here. I don't have great water pressure in my kitchen either especially the hot water and its not the aerator. The bathroom flows a lot of water. I'm sure your pump is just fine as you can hear the pump cycle a lot when the bathroom faucet is on and a whole lot less when the kitchen faucet is on. There is more pipe and fittings going to the kitchen opposed to the bath sink so you would expect a little less volume but not the low amount I get. I suspect I have a kink in my line which I will check out when I redo the ceiling panels. keep in mind there are 2 separate lines running from the bathroom too the kitchen the hot and cold meantime if you find the culprit let us know i would be interested.
Roy
x 76 glen brook
Roy Keen
Minden,NV
76 X Glenbrook
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| Re: [GMCnet] kitchen water pressure mystery... [message #103622 is a reply to message #103617] |
Wed, 20 October 2010 19:37 |
stick miller
Messages: 1036
Registered: March 2010
Location: Americus, Georgia
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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My daughter was married to a dumb ass once. They bought a house they couldn't afford and when we went to visit I found they were showering in the guest bathroom. The moron had adjusted the head of the "water pic" shower head in the master bathroom to "off" and didn't get any flow. Glad she dumped the bum!
Stick Miller
'78 Royale - "White Trash" - she left me for another man
'76 Eleganza - "Cousin Eddie" Sold
'84 Bluebird Wanderlodge - "Past Tents"
Americus, GA
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| Re: aerator and pot [message #103626 is a reply to message #103574] |
Wed, 20 October 2010 20:18 |
bukzin
Messages: 840
Registered: April 2004
Location: North California
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Just hoping it was something easy to address!
Bukzin
1977 Palm Beach
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| Re: [GMCnet] kitchen water pressure mystery [message #103653 is a reply to message #103602] |
Thu, 21 October 2010 00:36 |
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mike miller
Messages: 3576
Registered: February 2004
Location: Hillsboro, Oregon
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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| greg wrote on Wed, 20 October 2010 14:50 |
Thanks Mike, but i'm sure its not the faucet's aerator.
That's one of the first things we checked....
long before we pulled out the fridge to check the water lines for kinks...
|
If it doesn't affect the bathroom sink and effects both hot and cold, I would bet on the faucet itself.
(The pump is good if the bath is good, and there would have to be problems with both water lines...)
Mike Miller -- Hillsboro, OR -- on the Black list
(#2)`78 23' Birchaven Rear Bath -- (#3)`77 23' Birchaven Side Bath
More Sidekicks than GMC's and a late model Malibu called 'Boo'
http://m000035.blogspot.com
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| Re: [GMCnet] kitchen water pressure mystery [message #103688 is a reply to message #103679] |
Thu, 21 October 2010 13:25 |
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USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
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Senior Member |
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Greg,
I was wondering where whatever is restricting the flow will go when you back
flush the kitchen faucet with air pressure? I would think it would still be
in the lines only to return to the point that you dislodged it from when you
turn the water on?
Regards,
Rob M.
USAussie
-----Original Message-----
From: gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org
[mailto:gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of greg
Sent: Thursday, October 21, 2010 11:01 AM
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] kitchen water pressure mystery
Thanks for all the suggestions everybody!
I don't think the faucet itself is the problem, because we already
tried disconnecting it, and the pressure was still weak as compared to
the bathroom pressure.
> If it doesn't affect the bathroom sink and effects both hot and
> cold, I would bet on the faucet itself.
>
> (The pump is good if the bath is good, and there would have to be
> problems with both water lines...)
But very strange that it affects both hot and cold...?
I like the back-flush with compressed air idea.
We'll try that and report back
thanks all,
Greg
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Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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| Re: [GMCnet] kitchen water pressure mystery [message #103694 is a reply to message #103688] |
Thu, 21 October 2010 13:50 |
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Jumping in a bit late here -- but I'm wondering something.
Could a PO have installed shut-off valves somewhere along the line? Since
hot and cold both seem effected I would guess that some valves are half shut
or half open. Those of us with Coachmen know that there are several points
in the plumbing where some valves have been installed. They have been
installed at the low points to help in draining the system for
winterization. When spring comes I forget to close some and then complain at
the low pressure at the kitchen. Then, when I realize what I didn't do, I
quietly take care of the situation. Of course, one really looks like a fool
to have complained and then step out of the coach to see puddles where the
plumbing was doing what it was last told to do - drain the water at this
point.
If the lines are collapsed from an external weight then logic tells me
something inline is restricting the flow.
Is the flow unchanged when hooked to city water?
Byron Songer
1978 Royale by Coachmen
Louisville, KY
Personal - http://web.me.com/bnsonger
Eastern States - http://www.gmceast.com
Rob Mueller wrote:
> Greg,
>
> I was wondering where whatever is restricting the flow will go when you back
> flush the kitchen faucet with air pressure? I would think it would still be
> in the lines only to return to the point that you dislodged it from when you
> turn the water on?
>
> Regards,
> Rob M.
> USAussie
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org
> [mailto:gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of greg
> Sent: Thursday, October 21, 2010 11:01 AM
> To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
> Subject: Re: [GMCnet] kitchen water pressure mystery
>
> Thanks for all the suggestions everybody!
> I don't think the faucet itself is the problem, because we already
> tried disconnecting it, and the pressure was still weak as compared to
> the bathroom pressure.
>
>> If it doesn't affect the bathroom sink and effects both hot and
>> cold, I would bet on the faucet itself.
>>
>> (The pump is good if the bath is good, and there would have to be
>> problems with both water lines...)
>
> But very strange that it affects both hot and cold...?
>
> I like the back-flush with compressed air idea.
> We'll try that and report back
>
> thanks all,
> Greg
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> List Information and Subscription Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
> _______________________________________________
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> List Information and Subscription Options:
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_______________________________________________
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--
Byron Songer
Full-timing to enjoy the USA
Former owner but still an admirer
GMC paint schemes at -
http://www.songerconsulting.net
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| Re: [GMCnet] kitchen water pressure mystery [message #103778 is a reply to message #103570] |
Fri, 22 October 2010 10:20 |
greg
Messages: 17
Registered: May 2004
Karma: 0
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Junior Member |
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Update: did a back-flush with compressed air, and yes (!), there was
some definite improvement...
but still not totally up to snuff...
At this point we were thinking the faucet might need some similar
direct attention.
however, with the faucet nozzle design, it was kinda hard to do a back-
flush of the faucet... only half successful.
so we did a forward flush...and now there's a total blockage within
the faucet... no flow at all,
though thankfully the bathroom sink and shower are still working.
So... we're closing in on it.... and i'll probably go get a whole new
faucet.
I think the overall problem was a one-two punch, with some sediment
build up in the lines,
plus build up in the faucet (though the aerator was perfectly clean
from the get-go).
Anyway, we won't have time to approach it for a few days, but i'll let
you all know how it turns out.
cheers,
Greg
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| Re: [GMCnet] kitchen water pressure mystery [message #103794 is a reply to message #103778] |
Fri, 22 October 2010 12:30 |
emerystora
Messages: 4442
Registered: January 2004
Karma: 13
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Senior Member |
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On Oct 22, 2010, at 9:20 AM, greg wrote:
> Update: did a back-flush with compressed air, and yes (!), there was
> some definite improvement...
> but still not totally up to snuff...
> At this point we were thinking the faucet might need some similar
> direct attention.
> however, with the faucet nozzle design, it was kinda hard to do a back-
> flush of the faucet... only half successful.
> so we did a forward flush...and now there's a total blockage within
> the faucet... no flow at all,
> though thankfully the bathroom sink and shower are still working.
> So... we're closing in on it.... and i'll probably go get a whole new
> faucet.
> I think the overall problem was a one-two punch, with some sediment
> build up in the lines,
> plus build up in the faucet (though the aerator was perfectly clean
> from the get-go).
> Anyway, we won't have time to approach it for a few days, but i'll let
> you all know how it turns out.
> cheers,
> Greg
>
Greg
Did you check to see if it is a Moen faucet. If so it is very simple to remove the cartridge. You can then try to clean out the cartridge screens and if you cannot clean it just buy a replacement cartridge. Moen actually gives a lifetime warranty on the faucet. A few years back I got a free replacement cartridge from Moen for mine. If you can't get a free replacement then they can be purchased at a home store or hardware store.
There is no way that you will clean it with just a back flush and if it is a Moen it isn't necessary due to the design of the cartridge.
Emery Stora
77 Kingsley
Santa Fe, NM
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| Re: [GMCnet] kitchen water pressure mystery [message #103795 is a reply to message #103778] |
Fri, 22 October 2010 12:35 |
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You needed to get an up-to-date faucet anyway, right? Now you can get a
pull-out sprayer.
Byron
greg wrote:
> Update: did a back-flush with compressed air, and yes (!), there was
> some definite improvement...
> but still not totally up to snuff...
> At this point we were thinking the faucet might need some similar
> direct attention.
> however, with the faucet nozzle design, it was kinda hard to do a back-
> flush of the faucet... only half successful.
> so we did a forward flush...and now there's a total blockage within
> the faucet... no flow at all,
> though thankfully the bathroom sink and shower are still working.
> So... we're closing in on it.... and i'll probably go get a whole new
> faucet.
> I think the overall problem was a one-two punch, with some sediment
> build up in the lines,
> plus build up in the faucet (though the aerator was perfectly clean
> from the get-go).
> Anyway, we won't have time to approach it for a few days, but i'll let
> you all know how it turns out.
> cheers,
> Greg
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> List Information and Subscription Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
_______________________________________________
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--
Byron Songer
Full-timing to enjoy the USA
Former owner but still an admirer
GMC paint schemes at -
http://www.songerconsulting.net
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| Re: [GMCnet] kitchen water pressure mystery [message #103808 is a reply to message #103805] |
Fri, 22 October 2010 14:19 |
MikeT
Messages: 225
Registered: November 2009
Location: Marine City, Michigan
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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I had the same problem. Took the faucet out. Brought it to ACE hardware store where they had the correct tool to remove cartridge which was blocked by decaying O ring. They replaced cartridge with off the shelf
Moen cartridge. Works great. $25.00
Mike Thomas
Marine City, MI
77 ex Palm Beach
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