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| [GMCnet] Intermediate steering shaft [message #103252] |
Sun, 17 October 2010 12:56  |
KB
Messages: 1262
Registered: September 2009
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I decided to replace the torn/missing boots on the intermediate steering shaft of the '75 coach.
I think that's what it's called -- this is the assembly between the steering column and the steering box.
It has a cv joint at the top that connects to the bottom of the steering column, a blue splined
shaft below that that fits into a tube, which connects to a u-joint at the top of the steering box.
Not too complicated, and I got if off and got the boots on ok. The steering box is fairly new,
so work was done here before.
I couldn't find any reference in the manual at all. Is there documentation on this assembly somewhere?
I'm especially looking for torque numbers, eg for the castle nut that holds the cv joint on the shaft.
The cv joint and tube were both filled with a thick brown grease. The cv joint grease I bought is thin and black.
What kind of grease should be used in here?
Some prior mechanic included shims between the splined shaft and the lower tube. They're little
pieces of thin shim stock, about 2" long and 1/4" wide, folded up over the top of the lower tube
and held in place with cable ties. I assume this was to fix some play between the splined
shaft and the lower tube. Is this a standard fix, or a kludge job? Is there a better
approach other than replacing the whole assembly? The blue coating on the splined shaft looks ok.
thanks,
Karen
1975 26' Eleganza II
1973 23' Yard Ornament
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Karen
1975 26'
San Jose, CA
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| Re: [GMCnet] Intermediate steering shaft [message #103257 is a reply to message #103252] |
Sun, 17 October 2010 13:33  |
Ken Henderson
Messages: 8726
Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA
Karma: 9
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Senior Member |
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Karen,
There is an illustrated parts breakdown of the lower steering shaft in the
75Z parts manual, so presumably it was intended to serviceable. But I've
never been able to find any instructions.
From experience, I can tell you to carefully mark the mating parts,
especially the CV joint housing, before disassembly. That will probably
require a grinding wheel to make indelible marks because the steel is too
hard to file or punch. If you don't do that you may spend hours trying to
figure out which orientation will make the steering wheel align correctly.
As for grease, my experience, shared successfully by many others, is that
the CV joint will bind badly if you don't use Valvoline Synpower grease with
MS02. I'm sure the MS02 is the essential part of that prescription, but
that's a brand that's KNOWN to work well.
The shims in the splined shaft are a fix developed several years ago by Ken
Burton to minimize play and salvage that unavailable part.
Ken H.
Americus, GA
'76 X-Birchaven w/Cad500/Howell EFI+ & EBL
www.gmcwipersetc.com
On Sun, Oct 17, 2010 at 1:56 PM, KB <kab7@sonic.net> wrote:
> I decided to replace the torn/missing boots on the intermediate steering
> shaft of the '75 coach.
>
> I think that's what it's called -- this is the assembly between the
> steering column and the steering box.
> It has a cv joint at the top that connects to the bottom of the steering
> column, a blue splined
> shaft below that that fits into a tube, which connects to a u-joint at the
> top of the steering box.
> Not too complicated, and I got if off and got the boots on ok. The
> steering box is fairly new,
> so work was done here before.
>
> I couldn't find any reference in the manual at all. Is there
> documentation on this assembly somewhere?
> I'm especially looking for torque numbers, eg for the castle nut that holds
> the cv joint on the shaft.
>
> The cv joint and tube were both filled with a thick brown grease. The cv
> joint grease I bought is thin and black.
> What kind of grease should be used in here?
>
> Some prior mechanic included shims between the splined shaft and the lower
> tube. They're little
> pieces of thin shim stock, about 2" long and 1/4" wide, folded up over the
> top of the lower tube
> and held in place with cable ties. I assume this was to fix some play
> between the splined
> shaft and the lower tube. Is this a standard fix, or a kludge job? Is
> there a better
> approach other than replacing the whole assembly? The blue coating on the
> splined shaft looks ok.
>
> thanks,
> Karen
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Ken Henderson
Americus, GA
www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
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| Re: [GMCnet] Intermediate steering shaft [message #103275 is a reply to message #103252] |
Sun, 17 October 2010 15:19 |
KB
Messages: 1262
Registered: September 2009
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Thanks Ken, such a wealth of knowledge here. I'll try the grease, but I think the
CV joint may need replacement. Binds badly in some orientations. Could explain
some of the strange catches and clunks in the steering...
>
> There is an illustrated parts breakdown of the lower steering shaft in the
> 75Z parts manual, so presumably it was intended to serviceable. But I've
> never been able to find any instructions.
>
> From experience, I can tell you to carefully mark the mating parts,
> especially the CV joint housing, before disassembly. That will probably
> require a grinding wheel to make indelible marks because the steel is too
> hard to file or punch. If you don't do that you may spend hours trying to
> figure out which orientation will make the steering wheel align correctly.
>
> As for grease, my experience, shared successfully by many others, is that
> the CV joint will bind badly if you don't use Valvoline Synpower grease with
> MS02. I'm sure the MS02 is the essential part of that prescription, but
> that's a brand that's KNOWN to work well.
>
> The shims in the splined shaft are a fix developed several years ago by Ken
> Burton to minimize play and salvage that unavailable part.
>
> Ken H.
> Americus, GA
> '76 X-Birchaven w/Cad500/Howell EFI+ & EBL
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Karen
1975 26'
San Jose, CA
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| Re: [GMCnet] Intermediate steering shaft [message #103276 is a reply to message #103252] |
Sun, 17 October 2010 15:27 |
captjack
Messages: 271
Registered: February 2010
Location: Sebastopol, California
Karma: 1
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Senior Member |
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I too wondered why there wasn't anything on this in the Maintenance Manual recently. I used the Parts Manual as a reference. I don't know about the grease. I used hi-temp disk wheel bearing grease. I did take apart the CV joint to see if maybe the balls needed replacing since it seemed to have some play -- they didn't. But, it was a real monkey puzzle for me to put it back together. I was almost to the point of calling a grandchild to help me.
I did find the steering column shaft had a fair amount of play and decided to replace the bearing at the bottom . It was $40 w/ tax at the local Chevy dealer. It didn't seem to fit right until I realized that there is a plastic/fiber insert at the bottom of the column that it presses into. The insert can be removed to press in the bearing. Something about this in a maintenance manual would have saved me a lot of time.
Jack Christensen - K6ROW,
'76 Glenbrook/Clasco - "The Silver Bullet",
Sebastopol, CA
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| Re: [GMCnet] Intermediate steering shaft [message #103286 is a reply to message #103275] |
Sun, 17 October 2010 17:09 |
Ken Henderson
Messages: 8726
Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA
Karma: 9
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Senior Member |
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Karen,
The binding is how I discovered the MSO2 grease. That condition had been
developing for some time. On a trip from here to Orlando, it was so bad I
went into every WalMart parking lot I saw somewhat vacant to do
"dippsy-doodles" trying to displace the balls onto unworn areas. It didn't
help much and by the time I got to the GMC Coop, I had to force the wheel
back to center after each turn.
When I tore the CV joint down it looked perfect but dry, with light machine
oil, with motor oil, and with bearing grease it still bound up in some
positions -- to the point that I couldn't move it with a 12" lever. While
Jim Bounds was on the 'phone trying to find me a replacement, I wandered out
into the shop and found a new, unopened tube of Valvoline Synpower w/MSO2.
I'd never seen it, but had used MSO2 grease many times before. So I opened
the tube and regreased the CV. Instantly, all binding disappeared.
I got back into Jim's office before he found a replacement and cancelled the
order. That CV joint hasn't been touched in something like 5+ years and
40-50,000 miles and it's still working perfectly.
Several others with the same problem have tried the same stuff with the same
results. Try it, you'll like it. :-)
Ken H.
On Sun, Oct 17, 2010 at 4:19 PM, KB <kab7@sonic.net> wrote:
> Thanks Ken, such a wealth of knowledge here. I'll try the grease, but I
> think the
> CV joint may need replacement. Binds badly in some orientations. Could
> explain
> some of the strange catches and clunks in the steering...
>
>
_______________________________________________
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List Information and Subscription Options:
http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
Ken Henderson
Americus, GA
www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
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| Re: [GMCnet] Intermediate steering shaft [message #103287 is a reply to message #103286] |
Sun, 17 October 2010 17:34 |
Mr ERFisher
Messages: 7117
Registered: August 2005
Karma: 2
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Senior Member |
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this one --right?---
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/showphoto.php?photo=29595&title=moly-grease&cat=5141
gene
On Sun, Oct 17, 2010 at 3:09 PM, Ken Henderson <hend4800@bellsouth.net>wrote:
> Karen,
>
> The binding is how I discovered the MSO2 grease. That condition had been
> developing for some time. On a trip from here to Orlando, it was so bad I
> went into every WalMart parking lot I saw somewhat vacant to do
> "dippsy-doodles" trying to displace the balls onto unworn areas. It didn't
> help much and by the time I got to the GMC Coop, I had to force the wheel
> back to center after each turn.
>
> When I tore the CV joint down it looked perfect but dry, with light machine
> oil, with motor oil, and with bearing grease it still bound up in some
> positions -- to the point that I couldn't move it with a 12" lever. While
> Jim Bounds was on the 'phone trying to find me a replacement, I wandered
> out
> into the shop and found a new, unopened tube of Valvoline Synpower w/MSO2.
> I'd never seen it, but had used MSO2 grease many times before. So I
> opened
> the tube and regreased the CV. Instantly, all binding disappeared.
>
> I got back into Jim's office before he found a replacement and cancelled
> the
> order. That CV joint hasn't been touched in something like 5+ years and
> 40-50,000 miles and it's still working perfectly.
>
> Several others with the same problem have tried the same stuff with the
> same
> results. Try it, you'll like it. :-)
>
> Ken H.
>
>
> On Sun, Oct 17, 2010 at 4:19 PM, KB <kab7@sonic.net> wrote:
>
> > Thanks Ken, such a wealth of knowledge here. I'll try the grease, but I
> > think the
> > CV joint may need replacement. Binds badly in some orientations. Could
> > explain
> > some of the strange catches and clunks in the steering...
> >
> >
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> List Information and Subscription Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
--
Gene Fisher -- 74-23,77PB/ore/ca
“Give a man a fish; you have fed him for today --- give him a URL and
-------
http://gmcmotorhome.info/
Alternator Protection Cable
http://gmcmotorhome.info/APC.html
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| Re: [GMCnet] Intermediate steering shaft [message #103288 is a reply to message #103286] |
Sun, 17 October 2010 17:34 |
James Hupy
Messages: 6806
Registered: May 2010
Karma: -62
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Senior Member |
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When I was at GMCWS in Auburn Ca earlier this year I bought the boot kit for
the steering intermediate shaft assembly as my original boot on my 78 Royale
had disintegrated and the joint was dry and felt like it wanted to bind up.
When I got home from Auburn, I removed the complete joint assembly from the
coach with intentions of replacing the CV joint on the top with a new one.
After I marked the individual pieces with a dremel cut off wheel so I could
reassemble it correctly later, I took it all apart and washed the road crud
out of it and inspected it, Couldn't find enough wear to justify
replacement, so I reassembled it with new boots secured with bandit clamps
except where they overlap in the center I used zipties. I have a tywrap tool
that has an adjustment for how tight it will pull the tywrap before it cuts
off the tail, if you don't have one of these they are a PITA. When the cv
joint was dry and turned to the approx angle that it operates at it seemed
to bind again. I took it apart again, washed out the lithium grease that I
packed it with, and repacked it with Constant velocity joint grease with
Moly disulfide. I don't know what that stuff is but it is the nastiest
gnarlyiest stuff to get off your hands that I can remember ever running
into. When I reassembled the shaft, all the binding was gone. It apparently
handles the extreme angles of that particular assembly without any trouble.
I have driven the coach several hundreds of miles since and no complaints
from the steering shaft. Nice when something goes right for a change.
Jim Hupy
Salem, Or
78 Royale 403
On Sun, Oct 17, 2010 at 3:09 PM, Ken Henderson <hend4800@bellsouth.net>wrote:
> Karen,
>
> The binding is how I discovered the MSO2 grease. That condition had been
> developing for some time. On a trip from here to Orlando, it was so bad I
> went into every WalMart parking lot I saw somewhat vacant to do
> "dippsy-doodles" trying to displace the balls onto unworn areas. It didn't
> help much and by the time I got to the GMC Coop, I had to force the wheel
> back to center after each turn.
>
> When I tore the CV joint down it looked perfect but dry, with light machine
> oil, with motor oil, and with bearing grease it still bound up in some
> positions -- to the point that I couldn't move it with a 12" lever. While
> Jim Bounds was on the 'phone trying to find me a replacement, I wandered
> out
> into the shop and found a new, unopened tube of Valvoline Synpower w/MSO2.
> I'd never seen it, but had used MSO2 grease many times before. So I
> opened
> the tube and regreased the CV. Instantly, all binding disappeared.
>
> I got back into Jim's office before he found a replacement and cancelled
> the
> order. That CV joint hasn't been touched in something like 5+ years and
> 40-50,000 miles and it's still working perfectly.
>
> Several others with the same problem have tried the same stuff with the
> same
> results. Try it, you'll like it. :-)
>
> Ken H.
>
>
> On Sun, Oct 17, 2010 at 4:19 PM, KB <kab7@sonic.net> wrote:
>
> > Thanks Ken, such a wealth of knowledge here. I'll try the grease, but I
> > think the
> > CV joint may need replacement. Binds badly in some orientations. Could
> > explain
> > some of the strange catches and clunks in the steering...
> >
> >
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> List Information and Subscription Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
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List Information and Subscription Options:
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| Re: [GMCnet] Intermediate steering shaft [message #103292 is a reply to message #103287] |
Sun, 17 October 2010 18:02 |
Ken Henderson
Messages: 8726
Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA
Karma: 9
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Senior Member |
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Here's the link to Durablend:
http://www.valvoline.com/products/consumer-products/grease-gear-oil/grease/67
and to Synpower:
http://www.valvoline.com/products/consumer-products/grease-gear-oil/grease/63
<http://www.valvoline.com/products/consumer-products/grease-gear-oil/grease/63>All
I can tell from that is that Durablend is a blend and Synpower's apparently
all synthetic, with a 25* higher temperature range.
Synpower's what I use, but the other may be just as good -- I have used it
in other applications.
Ken
On Sun, Oct 17, 2010 at 6:34 PM, Mr.erf ERFisher <mr.erfisher@gmail.com>wrote:
> this one --right?---
>
>
> http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/showphoto.php?photo=29595&title=moly-grease&cat=5141
>
> gene
>
> On Sun, Oct 17, 2010 at 3:09 PM, Ken Henderson <hend4800@bellsouth.net
> >wrote:
>
> > Karen,
> >
> > The binding is how I discovered the MSO2 grease. That condition had been
> > developing for some time. On a trip from here to Orlando, it was so bad
> I
> > went into every WalMart parking lot I saw somewhat vacant to do
> > "dippsy-doodles" trying to displace the balls onto unworn areas. It
> didn't
> > help much and by the time I got to the GMC Coop, I had to force the wheel
> > back to center after each turn.
> >
> > When I tore the CV joint down it looked perfect but dry, with light
> machine
> > oil, with motor oil, and with bearing grease it still bound up in some
> > positions -- to the point that I couldn't move it with a 12" lever.
> While
> > Jim Bounds was on the 'phone trying to find me a replacement, I wandered
> > out
> > into the shop and found a new, unopened tube of Valvoline Synpower
> w/MSO2.
> > I'd never seen it, but had used MSO2 grease many times before. So I
> > opened
> > the tube and regreased the CV. Instantly, all binding disappeared.
> >
> > I got back into Jim's office before he found a replacement and cancelled
> > the
> > order. That CV joint hasn't been touched in something like 5+ years and
> > 40-50,000 miles and it's still working perfectly.
> >
> > Several others with the same problem have tried the same stuff with the
> > same
> > results. Try it, you'll like it. :-)
> >
> > Ken H.
> >
> >
> > On Sun, Oct 17, 2010 at 4:19 PM, KB <kab7@sonic.net> wrote:
> >
> > > Thanks Ken, such a wealth of knowledge here. I'll try the grease, but
> I
> > > think the
> > > CV joint may need replacement. Binds badly in some orientations.
> Could
> > > explain
> > > some of the strange catches and clunks in the steering...
> > >
> > >
> > _______________________________________________
> > GMCnet mailing list
> > List Information and Subscription Options:
> > http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Gene Fisher -- 74-23,77PB/ore/ca
> “Give a man a fish; you have fed him for today --- give him a URL and
> -------
> http://gmcmotorhome.info/
> Alternator Protection Cable
> http://gmcmotorhome.info/APC.html
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> List Information and Subscription Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
List Information and Subscription Options:
http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
Ken Henderson
Americus, GA
www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
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| Re: [GMCnet] Intermediate steering shaft [message #103293 is a reply to message #103252] |
Sun, 17 October 2010 18:27 |
kingd
Messages: 592
Registered: June 2004
Karma: 2
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Senior Member |
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In Canada there is (or was)a line of products called Moly-Slip that has been around for at least 40 years. They used to sponsor an amatuer automobile road racing endurance series in the early 1970s. Their products contain the "magic" moly stuff. There had a wheel bearing type high temperature grease and also products to add to engine oil and another for manual transmission and some others. Some racing aquaintances that were completely against most "additives" were believers and promoters of the Moly Slip products. I'm sure some of them also have stories about the "magic" of Moly. I used to know a very bright university graduate who was not at all surprised that Moly Slip seemed like "magic".
DAVE KING
DAVE KING
lurker, wannabe
Toronto, Ontario, Canada
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| Re: [GMCnet] Intermediate steering shaft [message #103319 is a reply to message #103292] |
Sun, 17 October 2010 21:45 |
 |
USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
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Senior Member |
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Ken,
All along this trip I kept looking for a tube of Synpower only to find Dura
Blend.
When I got back to Humble I went to the local Napa Store and found it. Damon
the Manager noted the same thing you did below.
I bought an extra tube so I can have one in the grease gun and one spare.
To simplify things this is the only grease I use on Double Trouble.
Regards,
Rob
-----Original Message-----
From: gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org
[mailto:gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of Ken Henderson
Sent: Sunday, October 17, 2010 6:02 PM
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Intermediate steering shaft
Here's the link to Durablend:
http://www.valvoline.com/products/consumer-products/grease-gear-oil/grease/6
7
and to Synpower:
http://www.valvoline.com/products/consumer-products/grease-gear-oil/grease/6
3
<http://www.valvoline.com/products/consumer-products/grease-gear-oil/grease/
63>All
I can tell from that is that Durablend is a blend and Synpower's apparently
all synthetic, with a 25* higher temperature range.
Synpower's what I use, but the other may be just as good -- I have used it
in other applications.
Ken
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Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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