| [GMCnet] upper a arms [message #102351] |
Sat, 09 October 2010 18:39  |
larry erd
Messages: 132
Registered: August 2010
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I just pulled the front susp. off of my '77 kinksley, and see that the
upper ball joint is riveted on. I assume that
there are bolt on replacements for them? Also can i buy the rubber sleeves
at the upper pivot points?
A newbie
larry erd
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| Re: [GMCnet] upper a arms [message #102354 is a reply to message #102351] |
Sat, 09 October 2010 19:10  |
pzerkel
Messages: 212
Registered: September 2007
Location: Salisbury, IL
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Ball joints and control arm bushings are available.
http://www.appliedgmc.com/level.itml/icOid/484
Someone smarter than me will chime in soon with opinions re: offset bushings or not, as well as urethane.
I do know that the urethane ones are not available as offset. And some owners suggest putting offsets in the rear of the upper arms.
Paul Zerkel
'78 Eleganza II
Salisbury IL (near Springfield)
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| Re: [GMCnet] upper a arms [message #102355 is a reply to message #102351] |
Sat, 09 October 2010 19:12 |
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USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
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Larry,
Yes, the replacements are bolted in.
Upper ball joints
Moog# K5238
TRW# 10270
NAPA# NCP260-1126
Yes, you can buy control arm bushings.
Upper A arm bushings
Moog# K7006--concentric
Moog# K7104--eccentric for more caster
I would suggest you buy a pair of offset bushings and install them in the
rear "legs" of the upper control arms. They will allow you to get more
caster which will make your GMC handle better.
When you tighten the adjustment bolts of the upper control arms the coach
should be on the ground as that will place the control arms in the normal
position.
If you tighten them then drop the coach the rubber bushings will be twisted
a lot more than if they were tightened with the coach on the ground.
Alignment settings:
Caster: as much as you can get
Camber: 0
Toe in - out: 0
Regards,
Rob M.
USAussie
-----Original Message-----
From: gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org
[mailto:gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of larry erd
Sent: Saturday, October 09, 2010 6:40 PM
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Subject: [GMCnet] upper a arms
I just pulled the front susp. off of my '77 kinksley, and see that the
upper ball joint is riveted on. I assume that
there are bolt on replacements for them? Also can i buy the rubber sleeves
at the upper pivot points?
A newbie
larry erd
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
List Information and Subscription Options:
http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
_______________________________________________
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Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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| Re: [GMCnet] upper a arms [message #102357 is a reply to message #102351] |
Sat, 09 October 2010 19:48 |
JohnL455
Messages: 4447
Registered: October 2006
Location: Woodstock, IL
Karma: 12
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Senior Member |
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Hey Rob those are the simplest FE specs I have ever seen posted after weeding through all the muck. I can keep those filed in my head. Makes sense to me. However someone was saying a touch of negative camber is good to have, is that true?
John Lebetski
Woodstock, IL
77 Eleganza II
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| Re: [GMCnet] upper a arms [message #102359 is a reply to message #102355] |
Sat, 09 October 2010 19:50 |
larry erd
Messages: 132
Registered: August 2010
Karma: 0
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ROB, THANKS FOR THE INFO
On Sat, Oct 9, 2010 at 8:12 PM, Rob Mueller <robmueller@iinet.net.au> wrote:
> Larry,
>
> Yes, the replacements are bolted in.
>
> Upper ball joints
> Moog# K5238
> TRW# 10270
> NAPA# NCP260-1126
>
> Yes, you can buy control arm bushings.
>
> Upper A arm bushings
> Moog# K7006--concentric
> Moog# K7104--eccentric for more caster
>
> I would suggest you buy a pair of offset bushings and install them in the
> rear "legs" of the upper control arms. They will allow you to get more
> caster which will make your GMC handle better.
>
> When you tighten the adjustment bolts of the upper control arms the coach
> should be on the ground as that will place the control arms in the normal
> position.
>
> If you tighten them then drop the coach the rubber bushings will be twisted
> a lot more than if they were tightened with the coach on the ground.
>
> Alignment settings:
> Caster: as much as you can get
> Camber: 0
> Toe in - out: 0
>
> Regards,
> Rob M.
> USAussie
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org
> [mailto:gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of larry erd
> Sent: Saturday, October 09, 2010 6:40 PM
> To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
> Subject: [GMCnet] upper a arms
>
> I just pulled the front susp. off of my '77 kinksley, and see that the
> upper ball joint is riveted on. I assume that
> there are bolt on replacements for them? Also can i buy the rubber sleeves
> at the upper pivot points?
>
> A newbie
> larry erd
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> List Information and Subscription Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> List Information and Subscription Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
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| Re: [GMCnet] upper a arms [message #102366 is a reply to message #102357] |
Sat, 09 October 2010 20:36 |
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USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
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John,
I recently installed a pair of upper control arms that Dave Lenzi makes and
those are the numbers he gave me. Well not really, he suggested 5 degrees of
caster, zero camber, zero toe in/out. I said max caster because I have never
heard of anyone with standard GMC upper control arms (with or without offset
bushings) ever achieving more than 5 degrees of caster @ zero camber.
Dave explained zero camber was because radial tires like to run flat
(parallel to the road surface). Zero toe in / out was because when you apply
power to a front wheel drive vehicle the wheels try to toe in. Max caster
was because he discovered that his GMC handled great when set six degrees
but backed down to five because the relief valve on the power steering pump
used on his 8.1 engine would open.
I have setup Double Trouble as he instructed and in the middle lane of a
three lane freeway I can let go of the steering wheel and it goes straight.
If I'm in the left lane it will drift off slightly to the left and in the
right slightly to the right. When trucks pass in either direction the amount
of wind push I suffer is greatly diminished. On windy days the amount I have
to fight the wheel is greatly diminished also.
Before I installed the upper control arms the best the best Tom Hampton
could get was 1.9 degrees with offset bushings in the rear legs of the upper
control arms. Double Trouble is a 1975 Avion built on a chassis built by GMC
in December of 1974.
I should also mention that every other part in the front suspension and
steering has been inspected and replaced if it did not meet specs. However,
being the anally retentive perfectionist that I am when I get back to
Houston I'm going to check every part again to make sure that it is as they
say "as good as it gets!"
Regards,
Rob M.
USAussie
-----Original Message-----
From: gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org
[mailto:gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of John R. Lebetski
Sent: Saturday, October 09, 2010 7:48 PM
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] upper a arms
Hey Rob those are the simplest FE specs I have ever seen posted after
weeding through all the muck. I can keep those filed in my head. Makes
sense to me. However someone was saying a touch of negative camber is good
to have, is that true?
--
John Lebetski
Chicago, IL
77 Eleganza II
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
List Information and Subscription Options:
http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
List Information and Subscription Options:
http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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| Re: [GMCnet] upper a arms [message #102371 is a reply to message #102351] |
Sat, 09 October 2010 22:03 |
JohnL455
Messages: 4447
Registered: October 2006
Location: Woodstock, IL
Karma: 12
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Senior Member |
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I think the original was for positive camber and the reason was to match the tire to the raised center of the roadway due to truck ruts. Never made sense to me. A new employee at work races late model Mustang and teaches driving on the NASA circuit and does his own alignments with the old school methods of pylons and strings and says they check out dead-on when confirmed on the computer rig. He's offered to go throught the whole proceedure with me. I need to do the rear uppers first and I want a Lenzi relay arm first. (when I change the cracked CV boots would be a good time to do this.) Now, the challenge to overcome is the wider track in back the way I see it.
John Lebetski
Woodstock, IL
77 Eleganza II
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| Re: [GMCnet] upper a arms [message #102413 is a reply to message #102371] |
Sun, 10 October 2010 12:19 |
John Sharpe
Messages: 489
Registered: February 2006
Location: Texas
Karma: 1
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Senior Member |
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| Quote: |
.....when I change the cracked CV boots would be a good time to do this.....
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John, The cv shafts can be removed without taking the upper ball joint loose.
John Sharpe
Humble,TX
'78 Eleganza TBI
'89 Spectrum 2000 MPI V-10
'40 Ford Panel Delivery TPI
johnasharpe@gmail.com
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