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| Rear Wheel Bearings [message #101653] |
Sun, 03 October 2010 12:44  |
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WD0AFQ
Messages: 7111
Registered: November 2004
Location: Dexter, Mo.
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Rob is replacing more wheel bearings. He rolled in here with one howling. We got all Timken stuff at local Autozone, including seals. Will post the Autozone numbers later.
Dan
3 In Stainless Exhaust Headers
One Ton All Discs/Reaction Arm
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Solarized Coach/Upgraded Windows
Satelite TV/On Demand Hot Water/3Way Refer
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| Re: Rear Wheel Bearings [message #101661 is a reply to message #101653] |
Sun, 03 October 2010 13:52  |
Ken Burton
Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana
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I hope he is not using Mobil One grease. I did once and it all turned to oil and seeped right out. Luckily for me Blaine spotted the problem when I stopped at his house. We repacked them all before I burned them up. The only other reason to burn up bearings is they are adjusted too tight.
Ask him to get Valvoline grease with MSO2 in it at AutoZone.
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
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| Re: Rear Wheel Bearings [message #101683 is a reply to message #101653] |
Sun, 03 October 2010 17:03 |
shawnee
Messages: 422
Registered: February 2004
Location: NC
Karma: 0
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| WD0AFQ wrote on Sun, 03 October 2010 13:44 |
Rob is replacing more wheel bearings. He rolled in here with one howling. We got all Timken stuff at local Autozone, including seals. Will post the Autozone numbers later.
Dan
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Dan,
I hope he used the correct seals. Dave Lenzi found some are wrong and even if you have the correct part number on the Timken seal you have a big chance it won't fit right. They have two different seals using the same number. The grease will leak out and there goes the bearing.
Gene Dotson
74 Canyonlands
www.bdub.net/Motorhome_Enhancements New Windows and Aluminum Radiators
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| Re: [GMCnet] Rear Wheel Bearings [message #101708 is a reply to message #101703] |
Sun, 03 October 2010 20:06 |
Ken Henderson
Messages: 8726
Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA
Karma: 9
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Senior Member |
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But remember that the inner seal number (8974S) covers BAD as well as good
seals, per Dave Lenzi's demonstration at DQ.
While I missed Dave's "formal" presentation, I got a private tutorial later.
IIRC he showed me 3 different seals, from two manufacturers, under 3 brand
names, with 3 different profiles on the actual seal. Only one of those, the
"original", will seal properly on our spindles. I can't accurately describe
that profile, but if you put the "wrong" ones on the largest section of the
spindle it's obvious that it cannot retain grease.
"Timken" is not a magic solution -- one of the bad ones was from them.
Bad times are here. :-(
Ken H.
Americus, GA
'76 X-Birchaven w/Cad500/Howell EFI+ & EBL
www.gmcwipersetc.com
On Sun, Oct 3, 2010 at 8:52 PM, Dan Gregg <gregg_dan@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> Here are the numbers for the Timken bearings. Most may have them but I
> thought I would post them anyway.
> Autozone numbers:
> Inner bearing and cone set--Set45
> Outer bearing--15243
> Outer cone--15103S
> Seal--8974S
>
> I am sure everyone has the Timken numbers so I won't post them.
>
> Here is a link to the pictures from our little work rally today:
>
> http://danandteri.blogspot.com/2010_10_01_archive.html
>
>
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Ken Henderson
Americus, GA
www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
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| Re: [GMCnet] Rear Wheel Bearings [message #101720 is a reply to message #101661] |
Sun, 03 October 2010 21:29 |
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USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
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Senior Member |
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Ken,
Interesting that you should bring this up!
Double Trouble has Caddy disks on the middle axles. When I removed the
bearing cap on the passenger side I noted that the grease in the cap was a
congealed reddish brown goop. When I removed the outer bearing I found it to
be almost dry and had heat discoloration. The grease in the center of the
hub was also congealed. The inner bearing had grease on it and could have
been re-used. As I cleaned the hub I could tell that it was Mobil 1.
Dan and I went down to the local AutoZone with the GMCMI parts interchange
list. It was rather strange as their computer noted that the NAPA BR35 was a
Timken bearing set but "Not Available." I then tried another one of the
numbers and lo and behold it crossed to a "SET 45" and they had two in
stock! I asked him to get them and when he brought them out they were Timken
and the numbers on the bearings matched the one we had brought with us so I
bought them.
We then started on the outer bearing which comes as a bearing and a cone in
separate packages. We tried the numbers in the GMCMI parts list again but
had to "mess" with them. The AutoZone computer didn't like the prefixes and
suffices. However they did have both of them and I bought those also.
Finally we got down to the seal and once again the NAPA number bombed,
however, the National number came up with a hit. I had the counterman bring
them out and we compared them to the seal we brought with us and it matched.
When we got back to Dan's house I found another problem with the passenger
side. The surface the seal rode on was rusted and pitted. I polished it up
with 240 / 400 / 800 / 1000 grit wet or dry and solved that problem.
Once everything was cleaned up I greased the bearings with Valvoline
Dura-Blend with MSO2.
Once I had the passenger side back together I decided to attack the drivers
side and basically found the same thing.
Dan has sent the AutoZone part numbers in under another email.
I am going to stop at AutoZone stores on the way back to Houston and pickup
a couple more "SETS" so I can change the bearings on the rear drums too.
Regards,
Rob M.
USAussie
-----Original Message-----
From: gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org
[mailto:gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of Ken Burton
Sent: Sunday, October 03, 2010 1:52 PM
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Rear Wheel Bearings
I hope he is not using Mobil One grease. I did once and it all turned to
oil and seeped right out. Luckily for me Blaine spotted the problem when I
stopped at his house. We repacked them all before I burned them up. The
only other reason to burn up bearings is they are adjusted too tight.
Ask him to get Valvoline grease with MSO2 in it at AutoZone.
--
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
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Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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| Re: [GMCnet] Rear Wheel Bearings [message #101723 is a reply to message #101708] |
Sun, 03 October 2010 21:44 |
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USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
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Senior Member |
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Ken,
I got lucky! The Timken seals the local AutoZone had were correct
dimensionally.
I noted that they were different from the BAD ones Dave had, the ones I got
were plain metal, they did not have the orange coating.
They were made in Indonesia.
The bottom line the measurement from the "bottom" of the metal part that
seats in the hub to the rubber seal should be 0.260 inches nominal according
to Dave.
Regards,
Rob M.
-----Original Message-----
From: gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org
[mailto:gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of Ken Henderson
Sent: Sunday, October 03, 2010 8:06 PM
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Rear Wheel Bearings
But remember that the inner seal number (8974S) covers BAD as well as good
seals, per Dave Lenzi's demonstration at DQ.
While I missed Dave's "formal" presentation, I got a private tutorial later.
IIRC he showed me 3 different seals, from two manufacturers, under 3 brand
names, with 3 different profiles on the actual seal. Only one of those, the
"original", will seal properly on our spindles. I can't accurately describe
that profile, but if you put the "wrong" ones on the largest section of the
spindle it's obvious that it cannot retain grease.
"Timken" is not a magic solution -- one of the bad ones was from them.
Bad times are here. :-(
Ken H.
Americus, GA
'76 X-Birchaven w/Cad500/Howell EFI+ & EBL
www.gmcwipersetc.com
On Sun, Oct 3, 2010 at 8:52 PM, Dan Gregg <gregg_dan@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> Here are the numbers for the Timken bearings. Most may have them but I
> thought I would post them anyway.
> Autozone numbers:
> Inner bearing and cone set--Set45
> Outer bearing--15243
> Outer cone--15103S
> Seal--8974S
>
> I am sure everyone has the Timken numbers so I won't post them.
>
> Here is a link to the pictures from our little work rally today:
>
> http://danandteri.blogspot.com/2010_10_01_archive.html
>
>
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Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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| Re: Rear Wheel Bearings [message #101724 is a reply to message #101653] |
Sun, 03 October 2010 21:53 |
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As for bearing grease, you guys should look at royal purple's UPG, that stuff was developed to save bearings on a bullet train traveling 340 km/h! you can get it from summit for about 10 bux a tube. gonna repack my bearings with this stuff when the time comes...
73 Canyon Lands, (a.k.a. The Yellow Submarine) West Los Angeles CA
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| Re: [GMCnet] Rear Wheel Bearings [message #101725 is a reply to message #101708] |
Sun, 03 October 2010 22:08 |
Mr ERFisher
Messages: 7117
Registered: August 2005
Karma: 2
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Senior Member |
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so what is the final answer?
gene
On Sun, Oct 3, 2010 at 6:06 PM, Ken Henderson <hend4800@bellsouth.net>wrote:
> But remember that the inner seal number (8974S) covers BAD as well as good
> seals, per Dave Lenzi's demonstration at DQ.
>
> While I missed Dave's "formal" presentation, I got a private tutorial
> later.
> IIRC he showed me 3 different seals, from two manufacturers, under 3 brand
> names, with 3 different profiles on the actual seal. Only one of those,
> the
> "original", will seal properly on our spindles. I can't accurately
> describe
> that profile, but if you put the "wrong" ones on the largest section of the
> spindle it's obvious that it cannot retain grease.
> "Timken" is not a magic solution -- one of the bad ones was from them.
>
> Bad times are here. :-(
>
> Ken H.
> Americus, GA
> '76 X-Birchaven w/Cad500/Howell EFI+ & EBL
> www.gmcwipersetc.com
>
>
>
> On Sun, Oct 3, 2010 at 8:52 PM, Dan Gregg <gregg_dan@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > Here are the numbers for the Timken bearings. Most may have them but I
> > thought I would post them anyway.
> > Autozone numbers:
> > Inner bearing and cone set--Set45
> > Outer bearing--15243
> > Outer cone--15103S
> > Seal--8974S
> >
> > I am sure everyone has the Timken numbers so I won't post them.
> >
> > Here is a link to the pictures from our little work rally today:
> >
> > http://danandteri.blogspot.com/2010_10_01_archive.html
> >
> >
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> List Information and Subscription Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
--
Gene Fisher -- 74-23,77PB/ore/ca
“Give a man a fish; you have fed him for today --- give him a URL and
-------
http://gmcmotorhome.info/
Alternator Protection Cable
http://gmcmotorhome.info/APC.html
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| Re: [GMCnet] Rear Wheel Bearings [message #101732 is a reply to message #101725] |
Sun, 03 October 2010 22:59 |
Ken Henderson
Messages: 8726
Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA
Karma: 9
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Senior Member |
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I think the jury's still out on the final verdict. But for now, the surest
check seems to be the 0.260" measurement Rob quoted from Dave. That's the
distance from the inner rim (the "sharp one") to the lip of the flexible
seal. In other words, perhaps easier to remember, 1/2 through the axial
dimension of the metal seal, which is 0.500".
I don't think any of the seals Dave showed me were made in Indonesia, nor do
I remember any significance being attached to color. Perhaps we'll
eventually have a better way to identify them. For now, I plan to check the
several spares I have and if I ever buy another, check against a known good
one -- which hopefully all of my old ones are.
Ken H.
Americus, GA
'76 X-Birchaven w/Cad500/Howell EFI+ & EBL
www.gmcwipersetc.com
On Sun, Oct 3, 2010 at 11:08 PM, Mr.erf ERFisher <mr.erfisher@gmail.com>wrote:
> so what is the final answer?
>
> gene
>
>
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Ken Henderson
Americus, GA
www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
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| Re: [GMCnet] Rear Wheel Bearings [message #101737 is a reply to message #101732] |
Mon, 04 October 2010 05:57 |
Mr ERFisher
Messages: 7117
Registered: August 2005
Karma: 2
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Senior Member |
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It does not seem possible that this large a problem, does not have a
dimensional drawing or picture that demonstrates this alphabet soup ,
problem.
*even Dan's posting :*
Outer bearing--15243
Outer cone--15103S
*should read:*
Outer cone --15243
Outer bearing--15103S
*or from an old Emery posting:*
BEARINGS
The inner cone (cup) is LM501310 , $3.89.
The inner bearing is LM501349 , $8.29.
The outer cone is BR15243, don't remember the cost.
The outer bearing is 15103-S, don't remember the cost. Emery Stora
>
> check seems to be the 0.260" measurement Rob quoted from Dave. That's the
> distance from the inner rim (the "sharp one") to the lip of the flexible
> seal. In other words, perhaps easier to remember, 1/2 through the axial
> dimension of the metal seal, which is 0.500".
>
> I am slow, but, I cannot quite see this without a drawing;>)
Maybe when it is daylight, this will become clear
gene
--
Gene Fisher -- 74-23,77PB/ore/ca
“Give a man a fish; you have fed him for today --- give him a URL and
-------
http://gmcmotorhome.info/
Alternator Protection Cable
http://gmcmotorhome.info/APC.html
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List Information and Subscription Options:
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| Re: [GMCnet] Rear Wheel Bearings [message #101746 is a reply to message #101737] |
Mon, 04 October 2010 08:55 |
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USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
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Senior Member |
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Gene,
This IS a LARGE problem, if the seal is not right the rubber will contact
the rotating bearing, get torn up and the grease will leak out of the hub!
I know that you electronic guys have problems with mechanical stuff just
like us mechanical guys have problems with electrical stuff so here's a
simple way to check and see if the seal is OK. ;-)
Take a 1/4" bolt that has an unthreaded section and cut the head off. Take
it with you when you go to buy a seal. Lay the bolt on the counter and put
the seal down over it so that the unthreaded part is under the rubber seal.
You should see a tiny bit of clearance between the rubber and the bolt;
approximately 0.010. If the seal is bad it will depress the rubber big time!
Dave noted that the only seals that seemed to be OK were Chicago Rawhide
(marked with CR). They have a green colored surface where the seal contacts
the hub. I bought one of them at the NAPA store in Carbondale when I was
repairing the problems I had with my drivers side drum brake. They come
packaged in a SKF box.
The other thing you can do is take the seal you remove with you when you buy
the new one and compare them it is EASY to see the problem.
On a final note I see you've posted what Emery posted awhile back. The
problem I noted with the AutoZone computer is that it didn't like the
prefixes or suffixes to the base numbers. I had the counterman delete them
and that's when we found that they had all the parts that the computer
couldn't find at first!
Regards,
Rob M.
USAussie
-----Original Message-----
From: gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org
[mailto:gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of Mr.erf ERFisher
Sent: Monday, October 04, 2010 5:58 AM
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Rear Wheel Bearings
It does not seem possible that this large a problem, does not have a
dimensional drawing or picture that demonstrates this alphabet soup ,
problem.
*even Dan's posting :*
Outer bearing--15243
Outer cone--15103S
*should read:*
Outer cone --15243
Outer bearing--15103S
*or from an old Emery posting:*
BEARINGS
The inner cone (cup) is LM501310 , $3.89.
The inner bearing is LM501349 , $8.29.
The outer cone is BR15243, don't remember the cost.
The outer bearing is 15103-S, don't remember the cost. Emery Stora
>
> check seems to be the 0.260" measurement Rob quoted from Dave. That's the
> distance from the inner rim (the "sharp one") to the lip of the flexible
> seal. In other words, perhaps easier to remember, 1/2 through the axial
> dimension of the metal seal, which is 0.500".
>
> I am slow, but, I cannot quite see this without a drawing;>)
Maybe when it is daylight, this will become clear
gene
--
Gene Fisher -- 74-23,77PB/ore/ca
"Give a man a fish; you have fed him for today --- give him a URL and
-------
http://gmcmotorhome.info/
Alternator Protection Cable
http://gmcmotorhome.info/APC.html
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
List Information and Subscription Options:
http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
List Information and Subscription Options:
http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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| Re: Rear Wheel Bearings [message #101751 is a reply to message #101661] |
Mon, 04 October 2010 10:02 |
Keith V
Messages: 2337
Registered: March 2008
Location: Mounds View,MN
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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| Ken Burton wrote on Sun, 03 October 2010 13:52 |
I hope he is not using Mobil One grease. I did once and it all turned to oil and seeped right out. Luckily for me Blaine spotted the problem when I stopped at his house. We repacked them all before I burned them up. The only other reason to burn up bearings is they are adjusted too tight.
Ask him to get Valvoline grease with MSO2 in it at AutoZone.
|
OK I'm confused. Yoda, AKA Dave Lenzi uses Mobil 1 in the front bearings. Is it OK to use there, just not the rear wheels??
Keith Vasilakes
Mounds View. MN
75 ex Royale GMC
ask me about MicroLevel
Cell, 763-732-3419
My427v8@hotmail.com
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| Re: [GMCnet] Rear Wheel Bearings [message #101754 is a reply to message #101725] |
Mon, 04 October 2010 10:37 |
shawnee
Messages: 422
Registered: February 2004
Location: NC
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Gene,
Dave Lenzi gave me two manufacturers for the rear wheel seals
that are OK. They are: Chicago Rawhide-3857731 and SKF-21771.
I picked up one SKF from NAPA today and it is the correct seal. I haven't found a Chicago Rawhide one yet.
Gene Dotson
| Mr ERFisher wrote on Sun, 03 October 2010 23:08 |
so what is the final answer?
gene
On Sun, Oct 3, 2010 at 6:06 PM, Ken Henderson <hend4800@bellsouth.net>wrote:
> But remember that the inner seal number (8974S) covers BAD as well as good
> seals, per Dave Lenzi's demonstration at DQ.
>
> While I missed Dave's "formal" presentation, I got a private tutorial
> later.
> IIRC he showed me 3 different seals, from two manufacturers, under 3 brand
> names, with 3 different profiles on the actual seal. Only one of those,
> the
> "original", will seal properly on our spindles. I can't accurately
> describe
> that profile, but if you put the "wrong" ones on the largest section of the
> spindle it's obvious that it cannot retain grease.
> "Timken" is not a magic solution -- one of the bad ones was from them.
>
> Bad times are here. 
>
> Ken H.
> Americus, GA
> '76 X-Birchaven w/Cad500/Howell EFI+ & EBL
> www.gmcwipersetc.com
>
|
Gene Dotson
74 Canyonlands
www.bdub.net/Motorhome_Enhancements New Windows and Aluminum Radiators
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