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| Re: [GMCnet] interesting new engine design [message #67815 is a reply to message #67786] |
Sat, 19 December 2009 09:11   |
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Matt Colie
Messages: 8547
Registered: March 2007
Location: S.E. Michigan
Karma:
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Larry,
I'm going to post answers and responses as required by number at the bottom.| ljdavick wrote on Fri, 18 December 2009 20:07 |
Matt,
So if I understand this correctly a turbine and a diesel engine of roughly the same horse power would burn roughly the same amount of fuel near peak output. Because they are light, turbines are used in airplanes, and because they scale easily they are used in large power plants. Diesel engines are cheaper and heavier. Is that about right? (1)
I know that this MicroTurbine company is making money selling their turbine generators for Co-Gen plants. If it's economical, then it's brilliant. Their examples are something like this - apparently anywhere a large quantity of heat is required, Hotel boilers, public swimming pools, factory boilers, etc., they put their turbines in-line before the boiler to generate electricity. The heat passes through the turbine to the boiler. The heat loss through the turbine is minimal and the electricity produced is "almost" free. In the past Co-Gen meant (to me) using some waste product as a fuel to make electricity. For instance Gilroy foods would burn the waste product from their Garlic processing to generate electricity. (2)
Well I think it's brilliant. Did you have a chance to view the diesel turbine hybrid video? It's a European Ford and is supposedly very quiet. I can't imagine what they have to do to quite down a whiny, screaming, turbine, but they call it "Whisper."
<http://www.capstoneturbine.com/news/video/view/whisper.asp> (3)
Which makes me wonder about our Generator / House Battery system. If the generator and batteries were better combined so that electricity came primarily from the batteries, 'till we needed the boost of the generator, like a hybrid automobile, then the generator could be sized to provide near peak output all the time. A small turbine powered by propane, gasoline, the black tank, could quietly charge up the batteries and go back to sleep. (4)
It'll never happen. The savings in having a tiny generator would be lost to the vast battery bank, but it's kind of a neat exercise. That battery thing has been pondered by the solar guys and the equation always seems to hinge on "load." Reduce the load and everything else gets smaller. (5)
Sorry - I'm blathering again... (6)
Larry Davick
The Mystery Machine
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1 - That is substantially correct. One thing that the large stationary units can take advantage of is heat recuperation. These are large heat exchangers that are simply impractical in most any mobile application.
2 - Co-gen is a big open category, but most cogeneration facilities involve generating electricity some way and then using the heat rejected by the generating system as motivating or building heat someplace in the operation. The waste product as fuel rarely enters the equation. I guess I'm real glad I don't live downwind of Gilroy.
3 - Nothing new here. Just like the EV1 with a Paxton APU in the trunk. I bet if Bob de Kruyff thinks back, he did see one.
4 - This is where we were headed with the all electric Travco at Thetford in 1973. It had 120V of batteries and a autostart Kohler that could also be used to heat the living spaces. The oil crisis and the Carter energy plans buried all that.
5 - You never know, there is that one strange guy;) that has solar panels all over and never uses his APU. He doesn't spend much time in Michigan.
6 - At least your not a politician. Nuffsaid
Matt
Matt & Mary Colie - Chaumière -'73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan with OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Near DTW - Twixt A2 and Detroit
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interesting new engine design
By: fred v on Wed, 16 December 2009 21:34 |
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Re: interesting new engine design
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Re: interesting new engine design
By: ljdavick on Wed, 16 December 2009 22:47 |
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Re: interesting new engine design
By: Chr$ on Wed, 16 December 2009 22:43 |
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Re: [GMCnet] interesting new engine design
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Re: interesting new engine design
By: fred v on Thu, 17 December 2009 07:44 |
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Re: [GMCnet] interesting new engine design
By: GMC_LES on Thu, 17 December 2009 10:32 |
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Re: [GMCnet] interesting new engine design
By: ljdavick on Thu, 17 December 2009 10:53 |
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Re: [GMCnet] interesting new engine design
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Re: [GMCnet] interesting new engine design
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Re: [GMCnet] interesting new engine design
By: fred v on Fri, 18 December 2009 06:52 |
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Re: [GMCnet] interesting new engine design
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Re: [GMCnet] interesting new engine design
By: USAussie on Fri, 18 December 2009 12:37 |
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Re: [GMCnet] interesting new engine design
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Re: [GMCnet] interesting new engine design
By: GMC_LES on Fri, 18 December 2009 08:29 |
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Re: [GMCnet] interesting new engine design
By: ljdavick on Fri, 18 December 2009 10:47 |
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Re: [GMCnet] interesting new engine design
By: jhb1 on Fri, 18 December 2009 12:18 |
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Re: [GMCnet] interesting new engine design
By: ljdavick on Fri, 18 December 2009 13:09 |
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Re: [GMCnet] interesting new engine design
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Re: [GMCnet] interesting new engine design
By: ljdavick on Fri, 18 December 2009 19:07 |
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Re: [GMCnet] interesting new engine design
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Re: [GMCnet] interesting new engine design
By: comcast on Sat, 19 December 2009 09:58 |
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Re: interesting new engine design
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Re: interesting new engine design
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Re: interesting new engine design
By: fred v on Fri, 18 December 2009 12:53 |
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Re: interesting new engine design
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Re: interesting new engine design
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Re: interesting new engine design
By: mdryan on Fri, 18 December 2009 10:03 |
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