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Sun, 28 January 2018 06:11  |
kerry pinkerton
Messages: 2565
Registered: July 2012
Location: Harvest, Al
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Many of you know what we moved to the dark side and purchased a diesel pusher a few years back. Until recently it has been trouble free....until recently. This is a 39' Fleetwood Discovery with a Freightliner chassis, air suspension, leveling jacks, etc.
Just before Christmas we drove the coach up to Maryland to spend the holidays with my Son and the Grandkids. We park in their driveway where I have installed a 50A plug. About half way there the coach started running rough and losing power...classic symptoms of a clogged fuel filter on diesel engines. We limped into our campground where I changed the fuel filter. All was good except for a slightly increased exhaust noise that I attributed to a hole in the 15-year-old exhaust pipe. We drove on to Maryland with no issues.
The weather was miserable and we ran our propane furnaces to keep the coach warm as well as keep the water bay and tanks from freezing. We had planned to stay until the kids went back to school on January second. We woke up on December 27th to 11 degrees with the promise of snow and sleet on Saturday and the kitchen faucet not working We decided to call it and head south to Florida where we were scheduled to attend a couple rallys and spend some time with some friends.
Immediately upon departure I noticed a considerable increase in exhaust noise, like an exhaust donut had failed. I did not worry about it too much and rolled on. About a half hour into the trip, the rear view camera died. A few minutes later I noticed my lube oil pump controller was off. We pulled over and I verified the lube oil pump was not running but didn't see a problem that I could easily fix on the side of the road in 15 degree weather so I started the toad to keep from toasting the transmission. When I attempted to restart the coach, it would not crank. This was new. I tried it a couple times and it cranked, started, and ran fine so we rolled south to Richmond where we spent the night. The toad did great just idling in neutral behind the coach and used very little fuel.
When other people have reported exhaust leaks it usually heats up the electric bay behind the left rear wheel. I kept an eye on it and while it was definitely warmer it wasn't HOT. The frigid temps probably helped keep it from extreme overheating
During the night, we noticed we were drooping to one side. The next morning, I discovered my right rear jack was leaking hydraulic fluid. As we departed, I noticed my air pressure was slow to pump up. At idle it would drop to just below the low air buzzer level but at high idle or driving speed it would maintain 100 psi or so. We rolled on. Temperature was about 20.
That evening we pulled into a small campground in St. George SC. We had a 30 amp site with water but the water was turned off because of the temperature. It was a level spot so I put down the three jacks that worked and extended the slides.
The next morning, January 29, it would not crank. Turn the key and nothing other than some clicks. I slide under the coach and look around. The pad surface was golfball sized sharp limestone rock. Such fun. Immediately I spotted the exhaust problem. On our coach, the CAT (3126E) exhaust manifold connects to a flexible stainless exhaust section via a band clamp. The stainless section was completely, COMPLETELY, out of the band clamp. The engine exhaust had been coming straight out of the engine and blowing toward the front of the coach. In it's path was some 'stuff' including a 4 wire cable for my lube oil pump with all the insulation burned off, the cable for our newly installed rear view camera with all the insulation burned off, the hydraulic line to the left rear jack, and various air lines and wiring looms. While the wire looms showed some heat damage, the wiring inside looked fine.
I fixed the exhaust leak by reinserting the stainless back into the band clamp and tightening it. However none of this explained the no crank condition. I called Freightliner asking where the starter solenoid was. "On the frame by the transmission" was the response. I looked and looked but could not find it. Nor did anyone on the Discovery forum know where it was. Freightliner sent me the drawings of the start circuit and a remote starter relay is clearly shown. I could not find it. I should mention at this point that I'm a pretty fair shadetree mechanic with good troubleshooting skills but know little about diesels. So it's now mid day Friday before the three day New Year weekend. We're stuck in a campground under trees so the satellite TV doesn't work and we're out of range of over the air except for a couple of channels which come in about 80% of the time and 'tile' the rest. I start the process to request roadside assistance. After 3 attempts I finally get through to Good Sam. They inform me they will gladly tow me to a 'CERTIFIED' repair facility for Freightliner and CAT or send out a mobile tech but not both. I opt for towing but inform them that we'll wait till after the holiday because there wasn't any future in having the coach sitting in an repair lot when it was closed for 3 days.
The next day, I called a mobile tech the park owner recommended and a nice young guy came out about 3:30. He opened the basement door where the ECU is and asked me to crank it. It fired right up. He said he had just tapped on a couple boxes. I started and stopped it several times. Everything good and I paid him and he left. We decided to leave Sunday to finish our drive to Florida and hopefully get to warmer temperatures. It was about 25 degrees.
The next day, we got up early and prepared to leave. Before we got too far into the process, my wife suggested I verify the coach would start. I bumped the starter and it cranked but when I turned the key off, it kept cranking. As soon as I realized what was happening, I turned the key back on thinking it would be better for the starter to crank against a running engine than burn out trying to crank the diesel. I ran around with my hair on fire for 5+ minutes and finally decided I'd have to remove the battery cable to kill the engine and starter. I had turned the engine off several times but it continued to crank. Finally, one last time before pulling the battery cables, I turned off the key and ....silence.
After a few minutes allowing my heart rate to slow down, I got the correct tools to remove the battery terminal ready and turned the key to start the engine...nothing. No crank. *&$@@)&
So we sit until Tuesday when the world reopened. It took 3 hours to get Good Sam on the line. They told me they would tow me to a Peterbuilt shop nearby but if they could not fix it, they would tow me somewhere else. I wanted them to tow me 200 miles to the Freightliner factory in Gaffney SC but it would have cost me $1000+ so I decided to see if the local shop could do it. Then she told me she would get a wrecker and call me back. A couple hours later, she called to tell me that she was unable to find a wrecker and I'd have to call back in a couple hours and start over. I told her that was absolutely not acceptable and asked for a supervisor. Back on hold for 10 minutes and she came back with a wrecker but he was out on another call and would not be able to get to me until after 5pm. We scheduled for the next morning (January 3) first thing.
The next morning I called the shop to find that it was expected to snow and most of the crew had not, and would not make it in. Caught the wrecker company before they left and told them to hold off until the shop was able to take us. We got about 4" of snow. Charleston SC got 6" and it just shut the whole area down. They are totally unprepared for snow and ice. We sat. It eventually warmed up enough we could get water and I borrowed a portable 'honey wagon' and was able to dump the gray tank.
THREE days later we make it to the shop. They jumped right on it and immediately determined the starter was bad. The ordered it for next day delivery. In the meantime, they repaired the leaking air line. We determined it was caused by heat. They also removed the hydraulic jack hose and I had a new hose built at a local NAPA which they installed. We moved to a local motel where we were able to at least watch the College National Championship football game.
The next day we checked out of the motel and I was at the shop when the new starter came in. One glance and I said, "That's not the right starter". "Yeah it is" said the tech as he slid under the coach. A couple minutes later he slid out and said, "I don't think that's the right starter." The head tech came over, I told him "That's not the right starter". "Yeah it is" he said as he slid under the coach. Thirty seconds later he slid out, "I don't think that's the right starter." The exact same thing happened with the service manager and then the parts manager. Much head scratching ensued while they tried to figure out why the supposedly 'right' starter was obviously the 'wrong' starter.
I called Freightliner RV support and they gave me a part number and told me I could order it from them. When I told the parts guy this, he said they could not order direct because they were not a Freightliner shop (as Good Sam had said they were). He called the Savanna Freightliner shop he used to work for and had them order it from the Memphis freightliner warehouse for next day delivery. Problem solved I thought and we went back to the hotel and checked in again. At least the TV worked.
Next day the starter was supposed to arrive by FedEx by 2pm. At 2 PM I went to the parts guy and he was on the phone getting a tracking number. 10 minutes later I see him hang his head and say 'OK'. Turns out that Freightliner never shipped it. This time, they were going to call Memphis, have someone put their hands on it, and call him back with a tracking number. Back to the motel....again.
The NEXT day the starter arrived about 2. It was installed immediately and everything checked out. Everything worked. We drove back to the campground to spend the night. This time I got a concrete pad and was able to replace the backup camera cable and get that working. The next day we drove on down to Webster Florida. 15 days from Maryland to Central Florida! The coach ran great although I was concerned about the root cause of the no crank condition. The starter was definitely bad and a sticking bendix could have caused the runaway condition that killed it. But so could a bad remote starter relay (which I still had not found) or even a bad ignition switch. Positive thoughts positive thoughts positive thoughts.
Three days later I turned the key and....no crank.))*$#$&**$@X!
This time, I'm on a nice level concrete pad, have some friends nearby, it's about 60 degrees, and my jacks work so I can get under the coach easily. I'm going to find that *&^&%$$ relay.
I call Freightliner again (4th time) and again heard it was on one side of the transmission or the other not too far from the starter. The tech also confirmed my thinking that it had to be the remote starter solenoid or the starter switch. None of the other things that could cause a no crank such as the neutral safety relay could have caused the starter runaway. He seemed VERY knowledgeable both of issue and the location of the relay.
So I slid under the coach with my headlight on and looked for 20 minutes....all around the engine, transmission and all the way to the rear axle. Nothing. Finally, I told my friend I was going to pull the hatch in the bedroom in the hope it was visible from there. Bed came up, hatch came off, didn't see a thing. ((*&##$^&U
On my coach, there is not a lot of room by the hatch, as I was twisting around trying to look toward the front, I overbalanced and literally fell into the hatch. When I caught myself by putting my hand on the valve cover, my head was actually below the floor. Guess what I was looking at? Yep, that blasted remote starter relay.
It was indeed mounted beside the frame near the starter BUT it was ABOVE the frame and totally hidden from view from below by a bundle of wiring looms about 6" in diameter. It is COMPLETELY invisible from below. I assume that Fleetwood moved it.
Called the nearest Freightliner store and they had one in stock and I made a two hour round trip to get it and picked up a new ignition switch while I was at it. By the time I got back it was dark and the next day I still had the no crank condition so I tested the voltages. 12V on the incoming hot leg....check...everything else cold. Turn the key to crank position...12V on hot leg...12V on trigger leg...NOTHING on the output leg to the starter. This is the textbook test for a bad relay, which is what the starter solenoid is. My wife was holding the key on and about the time I finished the voltage test on the output leg the coach cranked. I still had the meter on the output lug and saw 12V. It is definitely a bad solenoid. Period full stop as my British friends say.
Changing the solenoid was easy although it is really tight for tall folks on my coach due to the layout.
I'm confident this was the problem. It's been 2 weeks now with no issues and many starts. I still don't know, and probably never will, if the relay problem was caused by the exhaust leak. It's on the other side of the engine but there was a lot of heat. Some people have actually had their floor catch fire from diesel exhaust leaks. It's possible that the relay and the heat damage were two separate events, although I tend to think the relay issue was also caused by excessive heat. Regardless, I believe the root cause for all the heat problems was the rough running caused by the clogged fuel filter. I can see how the shuddering engine could have created exhaust impulses that pushed the pipe out of the clamp. At least that makes sense to me.
Regardless, my number 1 takeaway of all this is "DON"T DRIVE A DIESEL WITH AN EXHAUST LEAK"!
Kerry Pinkerton - North Alabama
Had 5 over the years. Currently have a '06 Fleetwood Discovery 39L
[Updated on: Sun, 28 January 2018 06:14] Report message to a moderator |
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