Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » Re: [GMCnet] Check your Lower A arm ball joint
| Re: [GMCnet] Check your Lower A arm ball joint [message #322039 is a reply to message #322007] |
Sun, 13 August 2017 21:09   |
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USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma:
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Senior Member |
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Rick & Jim,
I'm sorry but I'm going to disagree with you on a number of points, I have hubs and knuckles installed that were reworked by Dave
Lenzi on Double Trouble, The Blue Streak, and a set to be installed on the Kingsley.
I did not go with the one ton because I wanted to retain the OEM system for reasons I will not detail on the GMC Net for fear of
getting a lot of people's nose out of joint. I would be happy to provide my reasons to anyone who wants them OFF NET; my email
address is robmueller@iinet.net.au.
I will insert comments in CAPS below in your emails for clarity, I'm not shouting.
Before I go into detail I'd like to provide this link on Gene Fishers website for review:
http://gmcmotorhome.info/front.html#ZERK
Aw, what the hell I'll save people time and trouble here's what it says:
KNUCKLE ZERK MOUNTING
(100,000 mile bearings)
There is a poorly kept secret (only the 300 who go to rallies know, because the talks are never published ;>) that the bearings on
the GMC can go well over 100,000 miles without any problems. The most traumatic thing you can do to the front end of your GMC is to
grease the bearings by removing the hub and knuckle to check and remove the bearings, and we are supposed to do this every 25,000
miles.
Regards,
Rob M.
Sydney, Australia
AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
USA '77 Kingsley - TZE 267V100808
-----Original Message-----
From: Gmclist [mailto:gmclist-bounces@list.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of Richard Denney
Sent: Monday, August 14, 2017 2:37 AM
To: gmclist@list.gmcnet.org
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Check your Lower A arm ball joint
Bob, lubing the original bearing requires a massive disassembly using tools that cost hundreds of dollars.
I AGREE GREASING THE FRONT WHEEL BEARINGS IS A LOT OF WORK, HOWEVER, IT IS NOT NECESSARY TO BUY THE TOOLS, YOU CAN BORROW THEM. I
KNOW THE MIDWEST CLASSICS HAS A SET. YES, YOU MIGHT BE UP FOR POSTAGE COSTS.
You can drill them for zerks, but that also requires massive disassembly using those same tools, and not making a mistake.
HERE'S A LINK TO A DRAWING SHOWING HOW TO DRILL FOR THE ZERK:
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/knuckle-zerks/p5987-zerk-bearing-early-drawing-by-alex-birch-2c-shows-slant-drilling.html
HERE'S A LINK THAT SHOWS THE TOOL:
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/the-zerk-mod/p28898-cimg0999-small.html
OR WHEN YOU REPLACE THE HUBS AND KNUCKLES JUST ORDER THEM DRILLED FOR THE GREASE ZERK. THEY ARE AVAILABLE FROM JIMK, JIMB, DAVE
LENZI, AND OTHER SUPPLIERS.
Even then, the lubing requires the same disassembly as replacing the 1-ton bearing (loosening the axle and backing it off the face
seal to avoid blowing it out).
HERE'S A LINK THAT SHOWS HOW TO GREASE THE ZERK:
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/g4641-greasing-front-bearings-with-zerk-fittings.html
YOU ALSO NEED TO CLEAN THE CV JOINT AND BACK OF THE KNUCKLE VERY WELL TO PRECLUDE ANY CONTAMINATION FROM GETTING IN WHEN YOU PUSH
THE CV JOINT INWARDS.
If the one-ton bearing fails, it can be replaced cheaply and very much more easily than the original--like an hour versus a weekend.
And you can buy four of them for the price of the tool required to disassemble the original.
IF YOU REPLACE THE HUBS AND KNUCKLES WITH A SET FROM DAVE LENZI THAT HAS A ZERK FITTED THAT YOU LUBRICATE REGULARLY THE CHANCES OF
HAVING A BEARING FAILURE DIMINISH EXPONENTIALLY. I'VE PUT OVER 40,000 MILES ON DOUBLE TROUBLE SINCE I INSTALLED HIS HUBS AND
KNUCKLES. I GREASE THEM ONCE A YEAR BEFORE I STORE IT. LAST TIME I DISCUSSED THIS WITH DAVE HE NOTED HIS BEARINGS HAD OVER 100,000
MILES ON THEM.
That disassembly of the original should be done every 25,000 miles, and putting in zerks doesn't mean it won't ever have to be done
again, especially if the control arms on my '73 fatigue and crack.
THE REQUIREMENT TO LUBE THEM EVERY 25,000 MILES IS BECAUSE OF THE GREASE AVAILABLE BACK IN THE 1970'S THE DID NOT HAVE MOBIL 1 OR
VALVOLINE SYNPOWER.
The geometry issue is somewhat theoretical in our application.
AS NOTED ABOVE I COULD CONTEST THAT STATEMENT, HOWEVER, I WILL NOT DO SO ON THE GMC NET.
Bearing and ball-joint failures are not--I've had both. Both can be catastrophic.
I'VE BEEN FORTUNATE; I REPLACED THE HUBS, KNUCKLES, AND LOWER CONTROL ARMS ON DOUBLE TROUBLE AND THE BLUE STREAK SHORTLY AFTER
PURCHASE. I ALSO INSTALLED A SET OF DAVE'S UPPER CONTROL ARMS AND CAN GET 5? OF CASTER NO PROBLEM.
Rick "not letting theory trump experience" Denney
-----Original Message-----
From: Gmclist [mailto:gmclist-bounces@list.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of James Hupy
Sent: Monday, August 14, 2017 8:55 AM
To: gmclist@list.gmcnet.org
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Check your Lower A arm ball joint
Work on a whole lot of GMC coaches. I have seen more of them come apart in small crumbling pieces than I can remember. PARTICULARLY
THE 73-4-5 ERA COACHES. Lower control arms, lower ball joints, hubs, knuckles, rotors, outer C.V. joints, torsion bar sockets
twisted in the lower control arms, lower control arm bushings.
I AGREE, THE 1973 LOWER CONTROL ARMS HAD PROBLEMS, AND REQUIRE HEAPS OF WORK (JIMK WON'T TAKE THEM AS CORES), HOWEVER, I THOUGHT GMC
CORRECTED THE PROBLEMS IN 74. MY AVIONS WERE MANUFACTURED IN OCTOBER AND NOVEMBER OF 1974 AND THE LOWER CONTROL ARMS ARE WAY
DIFFERENT FROM THE 1973 CONTROL ARMS AND SERVICEABLE. HOWEVER, BEING THE ANALLY RETENTIVE PERFECTIONIST THAT I AM I REPLACED THE
ONES ON DOUBLE TROUBLE WITH A SET FROM STEVE FERGUSON AND REWORKED THE ONES ON THE BLUE STREAK HERE IN SYDNEY WITH HIS HELP. I WILL
REWORK THE ONES ON THE KINGSLEY WHEN I REPLACE THE HUBS AND KNUCKLES. STEVE HAS POSTED A HEAP OF PHOTOS OF WHAT HE DOES TO REINFORCE
THEM ON THE PHOTO SITE http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/u32-botiemad.html HE ALSO DID A PRESENTATION ENTITLED "GETTING YOUR GMC
UNDER CONTROL" http://gmcws.org/blog/?p=1292
Rarely ever see anything wrong with the upper control arms, or bushings, or upper ball joints, particularly the original equipment
stuff.
I AGREE, THE UPPER CONTROL ARMS DO NOT CARRY ANY OF THE GMC'S WEIGHT THEY LOCATE THE UPPER BALL JOINT FOR ALIGNMENT PURPOSES.
Lots and lots of loose or missing bolts and nuts on the ball joints, particularly the 5/16" stuff on the replacement ball joints.
I AGREE, THE 5/16" BOLTS SHOULD BE REPLACED WITH GRADE 8 3/8" NATIONAL FINE BOLTS. RED LOCKTITE SHOULD BE APPLIED AND THEY SHOULD BE
TORQUED TO THE MAX. THE BOLTS ON DOUBLE TROUBLE WERE INSTALLED USING THAT METHOD IN 2008 AND HAVE NOT COME LOOSE.
Steve Ferguson had a bunch of tricks that he used to cure the control arms, some quite extensive involving cutting out original
braces, welding in reinforcements, then fabrication of heavier stuff and re-welding them in
place of the originals.
YEP, STEVE BUILT LOWER CONTROL ARMS THAT WERE FAR SUPERIOR TO THE OEM, AS MENTIONED ABOVE GO TO THE PHOTO SITE
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/u32-botiemad.html AND YOU'LL FIND STEP BY STEP PHOTOS OF HIS PROCESS. HE ALSO DID A PRESENTATION
ENTITLED "GETTING YOUR GMC UNDER CONTROL." http://gmcws.org/blog/?p=1292
I have installed a whole bunch of 1 ton kits. Some of the earliest ones built by Bill Hubler from Caldwell, Idaho, and later by
Manny T. I have not had the opportunity to ever replace any of the 1 ton hubs, knuckles, or wheel bearings, yet. The only failure I
have seen is when the inner C.V. joint bolts work loose, and fall out under way. Makes one hell of a racket and leaves you dead in
the water if you don't have replacement bolts with you. Most cases can be directly traced back to improper installation of the
bolts. The drive axle wants to rotate before the bolts are tightened sufficiently, and no blue loctite was used at install.
Jim Hupy
THE ONE TON KIT WORKS AS DEMONSTRATED BY EXPERIENCE, HOWEVER, AS NOTED AT THE VERY START I WANTED TO STAY WITH THE OEM SYSTEM FOR
REASONS I WILL NOT PUBLISH ON THE GMC NET. AS FAR AS THE INNER CV JOINTS COMING LOOSE THE BOLTS ON DOUBLE TROUBLE AND THE BLUE
STREAK HAVE BEEN DRILLED AND SAFETY WIRED, SEE SIGNATURE LINE BELOW.
ROB "THE PEDANTIC MECHANIC" MUELLER :-)
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Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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