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Forum: GMCnet
 Topic: [GMCnet] Harbor Freight Sale on Folding Step Stool for GMCMH Entry
Re: [GMCnet] Harbor Freight Sale on Folding Step Stool for GMCMH Entry [message #329431 is a reply to message #329425] Fri, 23 February 2018 08:08
Tangerine is currently offline  Tangerine   United States
Messages: 180
Registered: February 2004
Location: Livonia, MI
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On 2/22/2018 9:37 PM, D C _Mac_ Macdonald wrote:
> Item #66911
>
> Just under $20
>
>
> D C "Mac" Macdonald
> Amateur Radio K2GKK
> Since 30 November '53
> USAF and FAA, Retired
> Member GMCMI & Classics
> Oklahoma City, OK
> "The Money Pit"
> TZE166V101966
> '76 ex-Palm Beach
> k2gkk + hotmail dot com

Thank you for the heads up.  I loaned my step to a guy at the last rally
I attended. He left before me and took it with him..
> Gary W. Mills
> Livonia, MI
> . ___________
> ./_][__][] []| 1974 GMC M/H
> .*O-------OO-* Painted Desert

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1974 GMC 260
Tangerine Dream
Livonia Michigan
Re: [GMCnet] Harbor Freight Sale on Folding Step Stool for GMCMH Entry [message #329432 is a reply to message #329425] Fri, 23 February 2018 08:12
Matt Colie is currently offline  Matt Colie   United States
Messages: 6567
Registered: March 2007
Location: S.E. Michigan
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k2gkk wrote on Thu, 22 February 2018 21:37
Item #66911

Just under $20


D C "Mac" Macdonald

Mac,

That is one of the perpetually on sale things, like the cargo straps.

I like the folding plastic ones better. Yes, they do break, but if you just happen to forget to take it back aboard, it won't hurt anything.

Matt


Matt & Mary Colie - '73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan
OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Twixt A2 and Detroit
 Topic: [GMCnet] Simple way to check the condision of your timing chain
[GMCnet] Simple way to check the condision of your timing chain [message #329437] Fri, 23 February 2018 11:48
BobDunahugh is currently offline  BobDunahugh   United States
Messages: 1697
Registered: October 2010
Location: Cedar Rapids, IA
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But it takes two people. Unless you have an inspection camera. Pull off your distributor cap. Get a 1-1/8 socket, and breaker bar. Put the socket on the bolt that's holding the crankshaft harmonic dampener on. Rotate the crankshaft clockwise a little. Then rotate the crank counterclockwise. As it just starts to rotate in the counterclockwise direction. Use a hammer to tape on something to indicate when the crank started to turn. The person that's watching the distributor rotor then can note if there is any delay between the tap, and the movement of the rotor. The amount of delay will give you an IDEA of the condition of the cam chain. There should be no delay. Using an inspection camera for the person doing the rotating while looking at the rotor with the camera is best. These cameras are to me a must have tool. Bob Dunahugh
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Re: [GMCnet] Simple way to check the condision of your timing chain [message #329438 is a reply to message #329437] Fri, 23 February 2018 11:57
Johnny Bridges is currently offline  Johnny Bridges   United States
Messages: 6413
Registered: May 2011
Location: Braselton ga
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I have one on order from the heathen chinese, I haven't traced it. Due in a couple weeks.

--johnny


76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons. Braselton, Ga. "I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell" - ol Andy, paraphrased
Re: [GMCnet] Simple way to check the condision of your timing chain [message #329442 is a reply to message #329437] Fri, 23 February 2018 13:42
Dave Stragand is currently offline  Dave Stragand   United States
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Registered: October 2017
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On my '68 Caddy (472ci) I could simply reach in with a finger and feel
the slop in the chain (engine OFF, of course). I was watching a youtube
video on replacing the chain on the 455 and it looks like it's similar.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B6rb5igyBWo

It looks like on my 403, I could even check this from inside the coach
by just removing the fuel pump. Not as good as Bob's more exact method,
but do y'all think it may be a good idea to check this way while you're
changing the fuel pump?

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1978 Transmode (403) Pittsburgh, PA
 Topic: [GMCnet] Do our engine water pumps die from age, or miles ?
[GMCnet] Do our engine water pumps die from age, or miles ? [message #329427] Fri, 23 February 2018 00:03
BobDunahugh is currently offline  BobDunahugh   United States
Messages: 1697
Registered: October 2010
Location: Cedar Rapids, IA
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My radiator is out. So it's simple to change the water pump. PO rebuilt the 403 in 1994. Put 1880 miles on it in 1995. Then this 78 Royale was parked outside from Oct of 1995 to Oct of 2015. Now we've put 12,000 miles on it. The radiator is a mess inside. I'm changing that. So what condition is the water pump in? Bob Dunahugh 78 Royale
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Re: [GMCnet] Do our engine water pumps die from age, or miles ? [message #329428 is a reply to message #329427] Fri, 23 February 2018 00:14
James Hupy is currently offline  James Hupy   United States
Messages: 4682
Registered: May 2010
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In your and Linda's case, it is replacement (NEW, NOT REBUILT) time. For
reasons you have already described to us. I seem to remember you said that
this coach was running a bit hotter than you liked. Be sure you get the
correct impeller. Lots of different ones out there. Lack of use is worse
than good use, in my opinion.
Jim Hupy
Salem, Or
78 GMC ROYALE 403

On Feb 22, 2018 10:03 PM, "Bob Dunahugh" wrote:

> My radiator is out. So it's simple to change the water pump. PO rebuilt
> the 403 in 1994. Put 1880 miles on it in 1995. Then this 78 Royale was
> parked outside from Oct of 1995 to Oct of 2015. Now we've put 12,000 miles
> on it. The radiator is a mess inside. I'm changing that. So what condition
> is the water pump in? Bob Dunahugh 78 Royale
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Re: [GMCnet] Do our engine water pumps die from age, or miles ? [message #329430 is a reply to message #329428] Fri, 23 February 2018 04:42
Ken Burton is currently offline  Ken Burton   United States
Messages: 8503
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana
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I can not remember the last time I replaced a water pump on anything except my GMC. I always throw one can of water pump lube (around $3.00) in to any antifreeze change. I have around 250,000 miles and 20 years on my GMC. Over 150,000 miles and 19 years on Laurie's Jimmy, and a little less than 150,000 on my 13 year old Colorado.

I replaced my GMC pump about 12 years ago because I could. I used a 4" impeller pump from NAPA.

What kills a pump? In my opinion it is lack of lubrication of the seal, or rust / wear in the bearing. A little lube helps those two even when parked.

Replace the pump while you are there and throw two cans of lube in with 6 gallons of 50/50 mixed fresh antifreeze. I always use $.88 per gallon Walmart distilled water for the mix.



Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
Re: [GMCnet] Do our engine water pumps die from age, or miles ? [message #329433 is a reply to message #329430] Fri, 23 February 2018 08:09
Dave Stragand is currently offline  Dave Stragand   United States
Messages: 42
Registered: October 2017
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This could be what we refer to as a "slongaz" project. Slongaz the
radiator is out, you may as well check the water pump. Slongaz ('as
long as') the water pump is out you may as well check/change the timing
chain, etc...

Would I be correct in assuming that removing the fuel pump while you're
in there would allow you to see/feel the condition of the current chain?
If so, that might be another "slongaz" to add.

-Dave
1978 Transmode (403)
Near Pittsburgh


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1978 Transmode (403) Pittsburgh, PA
Re: [GMCnet] Do our engine water pumps die from age, or miles ? [message #329434 is a reply to message #329427] Fri, 23 February 2018 08:34
Johnny Bridges is currently offline  Johnny Bridges   United States
Messages: 6413
Registered: May 2011
Location: Braselton ga
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Be ssure you get a pump which has roller bearings in front as opposed to ball bearings, because of the greater side load in the motorhome from the alternator among other things. The roller front bearing also holds up best if you use the OEM (heavy) fan.

--johnny


76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons. Braselton, Ga. "I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell" - ol Andy, paraphrased
Re: [GMCnet] Do our engine water pumps die from age, or miles ? [message #329443 is a reply to message #329427] Fri, 23 February 2018 14:09
Matt Colie is currently offline  Matt Colie   United States
Messages: 6567
Registered: March 2007
Location: S.E. Michigan
Karma:
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BobDunahugh wrote on Fri, 23 February 2018 01:03
My radiator is out. So it's simple to change the water pump. PO rebuilt the 403 in 1994. Put 1880 miles on it in 1995. Then this 78 Royale was parked outside from Oct of 1995 to Oct of 2015. Now we've put 12,000 miles on it. The radiator is a mess inside. I'm changing that. So what condition is the water pump in? Bob Dunahugh 78 Royale

Bob,

To answer your question as best it can be answered.
Jacket water pumps in passcar (as close to the coach as I know) die of either:
A - Seal failure
B - Bearing failure

Seal failures used to be common before the Stellite/Ceramic mechanical seals. These are lubricated by the coolant, and come very close to not wearing at all, but they do this with a very little, but almost continues leak when running. If you look "under the chin" of any new water pump, you will see a small feature that has a plug in it with a tiny hole. That is a "Warranty Avoider". The drips from the seal go in there instead of into the bearing (pumps have always had the feature to leak coolant and not have it end up in the bearing), and there is often some packing in the space to help the trapped coolant evaporate before an owner sees it and complains.

Bearing failures used to be common before synthetic grease. Normal grease has a limited life and this is way we used to repack wheel bearings all the time. When the grease did age out, the bearing was soon toast. That was not uncommon at 15~20 years, but it could easily happen sooner. How long is a synthetic grease good? I don't know. I have things here that I repacked with a synthetic two houses ago.

So, is it a good thing to change out on general principle?
As said above, it is kind of a slongaz thing.

Matt


Matt & Mary Colie - '73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan
OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Twixt A2 and Detroit
 Topic: [GMCnet] Harrison Brakes
Re: [GMCnet] Harrison Brakes [message #329436 is a reply to message #329426] Fri, 23 February 2018 11:26
Wackster is currently offline  Wackster   United States
Messages: 26
Registered: November 2017
Location: Baltimore
Karma:
Junior Member
Hello Rob,

I believe you correct about my Leigh Harrison brakes using "80mm" calipers. The various GMC references to 80mm calipers added to my confusion during the rebuild effort due to the piston diameter measuring somewhat less. Did my best to match what I was replacing. Thanks for the links to your brake photos. BTW, what is the function of the cable and spring return bracket assembly that I see on your rear bogey?


Wackster - 1976 23' Crestmont Baltimore, Maryland
Re: [GMCnet] Harrison Brakes [message #329449 is a reply to message #329436] Fri, 23 February 2018 17:01
USAussie is currently offline  USAussie   United States
Messages: 15590
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma:
Senior Member
James,

Those photos are not mine, they are John Wrights.

Regards,
Rob M.
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
USA '77 Kingsley - TZE 267V100808


-----Original Message-----
From: Gmclist [mailto:gmclist-bounces-AT-list-DOT-gmcnet-DOT-org] On Behalf Of James Wack
Sent: Saturday, February 24, 2018 4:26 AM
To: gmclist-AT-list-DOT-gmcnet-DOT-org
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Harrison Brakes

Hello Rob,

I believe you correct about my Leigh Harrison brakes using "80mm" calipers. The various GMC references to 80mm calipers added to my
confusion during
the rebuild effort due to the piston diameter measuring somewhat less. Did my best to match what I was replacing. Thanks for the
links to your brake
photos. BTW, what is the function of the cable and spring return bracket assembly that I see on your rear bogey?
--
Wackster - 1976 23' Crestmont
Baltimore, Maryland



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Regards, Rob M. (USAussie) The Pedantic Mechanic Sydney, Australia '75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428 '75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
 Topic: Re: [GMCnet] Radiator/Tranny
Re: [GMCnet] Radiator/Tranny [message #329439 is a reply to message #329420] Fri, 23 February 2018 12:31
Emery Stora is currently offline  Emery Stora   United States
Messages: 702
Registered: January 2011
Karma:
Senior Member
Don’t use a stop leak that is in an oil base. Barrs and others sell that. The oil can interfere with the antifoam additives in antifreeze. So be sure to use a dry powder.

General Motors, for over at least the last 70 years has put stop leak powder into their vehicles as a preventative measure. They use ground up ginger root. There used to be a Vernor’s Ginger Ale factory in Detroit. Someone found that ground up ginger root would seal up small leaks but not harm the water pump or other internal engine parts. You can buy that stop leak in pellets about 1” in diameter and 1/2” thick. Usually in the plastic bubble packs at the parts store.

GM would put two pellets into a V-8 and one into a six cylinder on the assembly line.and
They are sold under the AC/Delco label and also other brands. Here is a picture on Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=stop+leak+pellets

Back in the 70’s both DuPont with their Xerex antifreeze and Dow Chemical’s antifreeze advertised and sold jugs with stop leak already in the antifreeze. DuPont used tiny styrene plastic pellets (which were made by Dow as water softener resin) and Dow used ginger root powder.

Emery Stora
77 Kingsley
Frederick, CO


> On Feb 22, 2018, at 5:22 PM, Bob Dunahugh wrote:
>
> I have a jar of Barr's stop leak in our GMC. I put the entire contents in the time I used it. It stopped a fairly large leak. Got me home. As to the Trans X. Again the entire contents. I've seen Trans X get 4 GMC's home. With one other GMC. Didn't help. $6, and a few hours of messing with it. Cheep way to maybe get back home. I've never seen it work in under an hour. One took a day. Also seen it work for years after installing. I agree with Ken Henderson. Most of these kind of products are just snake oil. Bob Dunahugh
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Bob Dunahugh
> Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2018 12:58 PM
> To: gmclist-AT-list-DOT-gmcnet-DOT-org
> Subject: RE: Radiator/Tranny
>
>
> A stop leak is something that should be carried in all our GMC's. Saved me once with a heater core leak. Replaced the core when we got home.
>
> If you yourself paid for a trans rebuild. Thus know the true history. Fine. But if that's not the case. Or the PO told you a trans rebuild was done. I'd have a can of Trans X in my GMC. The trans that we are using now was from our burned GMC. It now has about 31000 miles on it. I still have a can with me anyway. $6 may beat a chance of a hook. Bob Dunahugh
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Bob Dunahugh
> Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2018 12:01 AM
> To: gmclist-AT-list-DOT-gmcnet-DOT-org
> Subject: RE: Radiator/Tranny
>
>
> Sounds like your tranny is at the end of it's rope. I'm not big on liquid mechanics. But some Trans X from Auto Zone just might get you home before it's totally dead. Mike Kelly can tell you about this idea. Bob Dunahugh
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Re: [GMCnet] Radiator/Tranny [message #329444 is a reply to message #329439] Fri, 23 February 2018 14:45
Matt Colie is currently offline  Matt Colie   United States
Messages: 6567
Registered: March 2007
Location: S.E. Michigan
Karma:
Senior Member
Emery Stora wrote on Fri, 23 February 2018 13:31
Don't use a stop leak that is in an oil base. Barrs and others sell that. The oil can interfere with the antifoam additives in antifreeze. So be sure to use a dry powder.

General Motors, for over at least the last 70 years has put stop leak powder into their vehicles as a preventative measure. They use ground up ginger root. There used to be a Vernor's Ginger Ale factory in Detroit. Someone found that ground up ginger root would seal up small leaks but not harm the water pump or other internal engine parts. You can buy that stop leak in pellets about 1" in diameter and 1/2" thick. Usually in the plastic bubble packs at the parts store.

GM would put two pellets into a V-8 and one into a six cylinder on the assembly line.and
They are sold under the AC/Delco label and also other brands. Here is a picture on Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=stop+leak+pellets

Back in the 70's both DuPont with their Xerex antifreeze and Dow Chemical's antifreeze advertised and sold jugs with stop leak already in the antifreeze. DuPont used tiny styrene plastic pellets (which were made by Dow as water softener resin) and Dow used ginger root powder.

Emery Stora
77 Kingsley
Frederick, CO

Just so you know not to waste the time and effort, Blackstone reported that our engine had coolant in the lube oil. As soon as I saw that, I when on the offensive and both monitored coolant loss and did lube oil changes regularly. I was still unsure, so I borrowed a cooling system tester and put pressure on the cold system for a day. It did lose some, but not a lot. So, I loaded (I do mean loaded) with the Barrs Leak pellets. the next three changes still showed coolant present.

I case you weren't reading a few days ago, when I got the intake off, there was a visible leak path.....

Matt


Matt & Mary Colie - '73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan
OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Twixt A2 and Detroit
Re: [GMCnet] Radiator/Tranny [message #329450 is a reply to message #329444] Fri, 23 February 2018 17:38
sgltrac is currently offline  sgltrac   United States
Messages: 2227
Registered: April 2011
Karma:
Senior Member
Emery, would you please site more source data points as I am not sure I
believe u.
;)

Sully
77 eleganza 2
Bellevue

On Fri, Feb 23, 2018 at 3:46 PM Matt Colie wrote:

> Emery Stora wrote on Fri, 23 February 2018 13:31
>> Don't use a stop leak that is in an oil base. Barrs and others sell
> that. The oil can interfere with the antifoam additives in antifreeze. So
>> be sure to use a dry powder.
>>
>> General Motors, for over at least the last 70 years has put stop leak
> powder into their vehicles as a preventative measure. They use ground up
>> ginger root. There used to be a Vernor's Ginger Ale factory in
> Detroit. Someone found that ground up ginger root would seal up small
> leaks but not
>> harm the water pump or other internal engine parts. You can buy that
> stop leak in pellets about 1" in diameter and 1/2" thick. Usually in the
>> plastic bubble packs at the parts store.
>>
>> GM would put two pellets into a V-8 and one into a six cylinder on the
> assembly line.and
>> They are sold under the AC/Delco label and also other brands. Here is a
> picture on Amazon:
>>
> https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=stop+leak+pellets
>>
>> Back in the 70's both DuPont with their Xerex antifreeze and Dow
> Chemical's antifreeze advertised and sold jugs with stop leak already in the
>> antifreeze. DuPont used tiny styrene plastic pellets (which were made
> by Dow as water softener resin) and Dow used ginger root powder.
>>
>> Emery Stora
>> 77 Kingsley
>> Frederick, CO
>
> Just so you know not to waste the time and effort, Blackstone reported
> that our engine had coolant in the lube oil. As soon as I saw that, I when
> on
> the offensive and both monitored coolant loss and did lube oil changes
> regularly. I was still unsure, so I borrowed a cooling system tester and
> put
> pressure on the cold system for a day. It did lose some, but not a lot.
> So, I loaded (I do mean loaded) with the Barrs Leak pellets. the next three
> changes still showed coolant present.
>
> I case you weren't reading a few days ago, when I got the intake off,
> there was a visible leak path.....
>
> Matt
>
> --
> Matt & Mary Colie - '73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
> Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan
> OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
> SE Michigan - Twixt A2 and Detroit
>
> _______________________________________________
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Sully 77 Royale basket case. Future motorhome land speed record holder(bucket list) Seattle, Wa.
 Topic: Running honda ev4010 on propane
Running honda ev4010 on propane [message #329451] Fri, 23 February 2018 19:18
lqqkatjon is currently offline  lqqkatjon   United States
Messages: 1563
Registered: October 2010
Location: St. Cloud, MN
Karma:
Senior Member
Wondering if anybody has been running honda ev4010 in propane?

I always hear that propane is better however i read somewhere that pinella's power claims it ruins the honda valves??

I have come accross a couple used units that are set up for propane. There is cost to convert back to gas, but i am still wondering on any damage that may have been done by propane? Or if i would maybe stick with propane.


Jon Roche 75 palm beach St. Cloud, MN http://lqqkatjon.blogspot.com/
 Topic: Microlevel for the EL11 systems (1978)
Re: Microlevel for the EL11 systems (1978) [message #329429 is a reply to message #329374] Fri, 23 February 2018 00:47
Bullitthead is currently offline  Bullitthead   United States
Messages: 1226
Registered: November 2013
Karma:
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Low Riders use hydraulics.

Terry Kelpien ASE Master Technician 73 Glacier 260 Smithfield, Va.
Re: Microlevel for the EL11 systems (1978) [message #329435 is a reply to message #329368] Fri, 23 February 2018 10:30
Scott Nutter is currently offline  Scott Nutter   United States
Messages: 389
Registered: January 2015
Location: Houston/San Diego
Karma:
Senior Member
Does anyone know the size of the original air storage tank on the EL1 or earlier systems? 1 gallon? Or dimensions?
Thanks, scott


Scott Nutter 1978 Royale Center Kitchen, Patterson 455, switch pitch tranny, 3.21 final drive, Quad bags, tankless water heater, everything Lenzi. Houston, Texas
Re: Microlevel for the EL11 systems (1978) [message #329445 is a reply to message #329435] Fri, 23 February 2018 14:50
Matt Colie is currently offline  Matt Colie   United States
Messages: 6567
Registered: March 2007
Location: S.E. Michigan
Karma:
Senior Member
Scott Nutter wrote on Fri, 23 February 2018 11:30
Does anyone know the size of the original air storage tank on the EL1 or earlier systems? 1 gallon? Or dimensions?
Thanks, scott

Scott,

There is on the floor of my shop. my guess would be it to be about an half gallon. I could actually measure it if it matters. The PL tank was considerably larger. The only reason you want the tank is so the pump does not short cycle and be annoying.

Matt


Matt & Mary Colie - '73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan
OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Twixt A2 and Detroit
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