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| Hello to all! First potential MotorHome purchase [message #370850] |
Mon, 19 December 2022 07:14  |
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Jarrod Bagwell
Messages: 18
Registered: December 2022
Location: Crawfordville, Fl
Karma: 0
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Junior Member |
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Hello everyone! I'm glad I found this forum. I'm looking at purchasing a 1973 GMC Beach, providing I can get it running. It's not in bad shape considering the age, but it would be the first Motor Home I've ever purchased. I'm very comfortable working on cars so the big block Olds 455 doesn't scare me, the but house part is totally new to me. I'm sure I'll be making plenty of posts here with questions. I also run a YouTube channel where I make videos of the repairs I make to the cars I own so I'll be posting repair videos there if I go through with the purchase.
Jarrod Bagwell
Potential 1973 GMC
Crawfordville, Florida
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| Re: Hello to all! First potential MotorHome purchase [message #370852 is a reply to message #370850] |
Mon, 19 December 2022 08:56  |
Tom Katzenberger
Messages: 399
Registered: June 2019
Location: Kingsville, MD
Karma: 4
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Welcome aboard what ever your name is. There is a lot of help out here. I look forward to your journey. Enjoy it. The camper is never done just don't forget to go out and enjoy it while it is in progress.
Take care,
Tom K.
Tom & Oki Katzenberger,
Kingsville, Maryland,
1977 23' Birchaven, 455 C.I.D., Micro Level, Howell EBL-EFI Spark Control, Macerator, York Air Compressor, 6 Wheel Disc, Quadra Bag, Onan W/Bovee Ignition
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| Re: Hello to all! First potential MotorHome purchase [message #370853 is a reply to message #370852] |
Mon, 19 December 2022 16:24 |
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Jarrod Bagwell
Messages: 18
Registered: December 2022
Location: Crawfordville, Fl
Karma: 0
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Junior Member |
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Name's Jarrod. I know that I need to pull the lower intake due to acorns and such getting down from a removed carb, so I've ordered a gasket. Lock cylinder is mushy, so ordered another one of those. Do you know if the ignition switch is located in the steering column as well?
Jarrod Bagwell
Potential 1973 GMC
Crawfordville, Florida
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| Re: Hello to all! First potential MotorHome purchase [message #370857 is a reply to message #370850] |
Mon, 19 December 2022 20:37 |
Carl S.
Messages: 4186
Registered: January 2009
Location: Tucson, AZ.
Karma: 13
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Senior Member |
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Welcome to the group. Don't be afraid of the house systems. The only one that is much different from residential systems is the 12 volt electrics. Of course, the water and sewer systems are contained and need pumps etc to work, but that's a minor learning curve.
On the 12 volt side, the first thing you'll want to do is make sure you have a modern multi stage converter/charger such as a Progressive Dynamics unit. Ditch the old "buzz box" if you still have one. It will cook your house batteries. Consider adding solar charging if you are planning any dry camping.
Somewhere around here is an essay on re-starting an engine that has not been run in years. Find that and follow the steps so you don't damage the bearings etc.
Carl Stouffer
'75 ex Palm Beach
Tucson, AZ.
Chuck Aulgur Reaction Arm Disc Brakes, Quadrabags, 3.70 LSD final drive, Lenzi knuckles/hubs, Dodge Truck 16" X 8" front wheels, Rear American Eagles, Solar battery charging. GMCSJ and GMCMI member
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| Re: Hello to all! First potential MotorHome purchase [message #370858 is a reply to message #370857] |
Mon, 19 December 2022 20:47 |
Carl S.
Messages: 4186
Registered: January 2009
Location: Tucson, AZ.
Karma: 13
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https://bdub.net/GMCMotorhome.info/buygmc.html#waking
To add to this, I would pull the spark plugs and spray cylinder fogger in the plug holes (Sta-Bil makes a good one). Maybe bar the engine over a few extra times before trying to fire it up, and leave the coil/fuel supply disconnected and crank it with the starter until you see some oil pressure. These 455s have very large main journals and may nee a little extra care to get them oiled properly.
Carl Stouffer
'75 ex Palm Beach
Tucson, AZ.
Chuck Aulgur Reaction Arm Disc Brakes, Quadrabags, 3.70 LSD final drive, Lenzi knuckles/hubs, Dodge Truck 16" X 8" front wheels, Rear American Eagles, Solar battery charging. GMCSJ and GMCMI member
[Updated on: Thu, 22 December 2022 17:12] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Hello to all! First potential MotorHome purchase [message #370860 is a reply to message #370853] |
Mon, 19 December 2022 21:38 |
Ken Burton
Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana
Karma: 10
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Senior Member |
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If you intend to remove the intake, then Block the exhaust cross over in the intake manifold with blocking plates. Also do not reinstall the sheet metal tray on the manifold ports. We commonly call that a "turkey tray". You can get the crossover plates and correct thickness gaskets from Springfield Ignition (Dick Paterson) http://www.springfield-ignition.com/ or Applied GMC (Jim Kanamata) https://www.gmcrvparts.com/ EITHER ONE OF THEM WILL TALK TO YOU AT LENGTH ABOUT GMCs AND WHAT YOU ARE DOING.
That manifold is heavy and I suggest that you make yourself a handle out if anything like a piece of wood or metal angle and put two long bolts diagonally in the carb mounting holes and through the wood to lift it that way. It is not difficult, just heavy.
Good Luck. We are here to help with lots of very experienced people.
Ken B.
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
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| Re: Hello to all! First potential MotorHome purchase [message #370861 is a reply to message #370850] |
Tue, 20 December 2022 10:34 |
lqqkatjon
Messages: 2324
Registered: October 2010
Location: St. Cloud, MN
Karma: 5
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Senior Member |
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where are you located? Find your local club and watch the people that drive all over the countryside and do what they do.
couple quick things... History lesson is the year 73 and "beach" do not usually go together. either you have a 73 GMC motorhome, that is NOT a Beach. or you have a 75-78 gmc motorhome palm beach. make sure you go get the VIN number to the registry, it is located on a plaque in the passenger side hatch, and starts with TZE.
https://www.gmcmhregistry.com/
take Ken's advice on the intake. I prefer to block of the intakes using Dick Paterson gaskets and plates. I have no idea where he gets his gaskets or how he makes them, but they fit better and they just work compared to any other thing out there:
http://www.springfield-ignition.com/gmc-motorhome/block-off-kits/
Jon Roche
75 palm beach
EBL EFI, manny headers, Micro Level, rebuilt most of coach now.
St. Cloud, MN
http://lqqkatjon.blogspot.com/
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| Re: Hello to all! First potential MotorHome purchase [message #370873 is a reply to message #370861] |
Wed, 21 December 2022 20:58 |
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Jarrod Bagwell
Messages: 18
Registered: December 2022
Location: Crawfordville, Fl
Karma: 0
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Junior Member |
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Thanks for all the good information. My this coming Monday I'm going to give it a solid day of work to try and get the engine to fire. For now, that means installing the turkey tray I picked up from the local autopart store. I've brought vehicles back to life before, one with a stuck engine to boot. Plan is to turn the crankbolt and if that works out then make sure I have my plugs, wires, coil etc, check for spark then see if I can fill the bowl on the carb and fire it.
It's going to be the first carb'd system I've worked in in awhile, should be educational. I've pulled the wire diagram for a 1970 Toronado that hopefully will lay out the wire routing for the starting and ignition circuit. When I put it on a battery the last time I worked on it, nothing terribly interesting occurred.
On that note, was the battery setup two independent batteries in the engine bay, or were they linked somehow?
As for the VIN I compared it against some excellent resources I've been discovering as I've been researching. It is definitely a 1973 vintage, number 191 to roll out of the factory in Pontiac, Michigan. So it being a Palm Beach part could very well be wrong. I'm not sure on the interior layout code yet. VIN is TZE063V100191.
My location is Crawfordville, Florida. Not much in the way of car shows around my neck of the woods that I know about.
Jarrod Bagwell
Potential 1973 GMC
Crawfordville, Florida
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| Re: Hello to all! First potential MotorHome purchase [message #370875 is a reply to message #370873] |
Wed, 21 December 2022 23:21 |
Ken Burton
Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana
Karma: 10
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Senior Member |
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The two batteries are not hooked together. One is for starting, engine stuff, headlights and heater fan. The fuses for that system are located inside rear of the Glove box. The other battery is for all electrical systems in the house. Basically everything forward of the cockpit step is on the engine battery and everything else to the rear of the step inside is on the house battery. Everything on the outside of the coach except the entrance door light is on the engine battery. Both batteries are charged by the engine alternator but kept isolated from each other with an isolator mounted underneath the passenger side hood. Electrical diagrams can be had on bdub.net .
Find the 1973 wiring diagrams here:
http://www.bdub.net/wirediagrams/
Ken B.
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
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| Re: Hello to all! First potential MotorHome purchase [message #370877 is a reply to message #370875] |
Thu, 22 December 2022 07:40 |
Bruce Hart
Messages: 1500
Registered: October 2011
Location: La Grange, Wyoming
Karma: 5
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Senior Member |
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There were four models made in 1973. Canyon Lands, Glacier, Painted Desert and Sequoia. Palm Beach was introduced in 1975.
GMC models can be identified by the interior or exterior colors.
Glacier had a blue theme and Painted Desert had an orange theme. I am not sure what the color scheme of the other two.
Bruce Hart
1976 Palm Beach
1977 28' Kingsley
La Grange, Wyoming
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| Re: Hello to all! First potential MotorHome purchase [message #370878 is a reply to message #370850] |
Thu, 22 December 2022 09:35 |
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Matt Colie
Messages: 8547
Registered: March 2007
Location: S.E. Michigan
Karma: 7
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Senior Member |
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Grumbles,
What model it is does not matter at all to what you are doing. The models were only color schemes. The floor plans vary only slightly and can be any model.
Yes, pull the engine through two full turns before you do anything like trying to fire it. I just hope you got all the acorns out. Resealing the intake with that metal gasket is a bear. Chances of a coolant leak to lube oil are better than even by some.
One of the front batteries has a cable directly to the starter, connect that cable to your new battery.
It should not have HEI, and that can be beat with a Pertonix 1181LS - the LS is important because the other type has reliability issues. But before you get far, make sure that the points are good.
You can fill the float bowl with a small funnel in the carburetor vent.
You say you are not near car shows, well you don't need or want them yet. What you do very much want to do is hook up with Sunshine Statesmen. They are your local chapter and a collection of old friends that you need to meet. This is a very helping and supportive community. The real value of being a GMC owner is not the new big toy, it is this community. To this end, for this and the other forum (this one is read by the older contingent, by many of us now read both) please build a sigfile with your real name, a short about the coach, and a geographic location. It is really awkward when some meets an owner and then find out that same has been on the forum but you never heard his name. Then short about the coach is important because 73s&4s are different than later many ways. A local is important because you one of those new old friends may be in striking range and he can be a lot of help and keep you from making expensive mistakes.
When/If you do complete the purchase, come back here and tell us more.
Matt
Matt & Mary Colie - Chaumière -'73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan with OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Near DTW - Twixt A2 and Detroit
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| Re: Hello to all! First potential MotorHome purchase [message #370880 is a reply to message #370879] |
Thu, 22 December 2022 11:40 |
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Jarrod Bagwell
Messages: 18
Registered: December 2022
Location: Crawfordville, Fl
Karma: 0
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Junior Member |
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Looks like I need to straighten my sig out a little more, but I think otherwise I made all the needed account option adjustments. The main issue I have right now that I have unknowns about is paperwork actually. The gentleman who currently possesses the GMC does not hold the title to it. According to my friend in the local DMV, he needs to try and find the seller with title, but I'm pretty sure he's not. It looks like I'm going to have to get a bill of sale and then a court order to get the title transferred into my name. Have any of our other Florida members had to go through this process?
Jarrod Bagwell
Potential 1973 GMC
Crawfordville, Florida
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| Re: Hello to all! First potential MotorHome purchase [message #370881 is a reply to message #370880] |
Thu, 22 December 2022 15:14 |
lqqkatjon
Messages: 2324
Registered: October 2010
Location: St. Cloud, MN
Karma: 5
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Senior Member |
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The starter and ignition circuit is simple.
But…. A toronado book or info is ok, but gmc motorhome information is easily available. I have found the gmc information the most concise and accurate compared to any other vehicle.
Look here and you will find very detailed wiring diagram specific to the gmc model:
http://www.bdub.net/wirediagrams/
Also if you have not downloaded the manuals:
http://www.bdub.net/factory-manuals.html
The maintenance manual will tell you most everything you need to know.
Lastly a good reference is the photo site. Great information there. Especially where it comes to what your trying to do. You can find photos of what you need by searching, but i find i need to search with
Laptop rather then my phone browser.
Wew.gmcmhphotos.com
Jon Roche
75 palm beach
EBL EFI, manny headers, Micro Level, rebuilt most of coach now.
St. Cloud, MN
http://lqqkatjon.blogspot.com/
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| Re: Hello to all! First potential MotorHome purchase [message #370883 is a reply to message #370881] |
Thu, 22 December 2022 16:57 |
Bruce Hart
Messages: 1500
Registered: October 2011
Location: La Grange, Wyoming
Karma: 5
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Senior Member |
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Jarrod, I just went through 8 months trying to get a Wyoming title. Seller bought motor home 10 years ago in Colorado and did not process the title. It had been sitting in a storage lot and he was paying monthly rent on the unit. He had moved to North Carolina and wanted to get rid of the unit still stored in Colorado. Colorado would not process title because he didn't live in Colorado anymore. North Carolina would not process title as the vin number had to inspected by an official in North Carolina and vehicle is now in Wyoming. He had signed his name to the title so he couldn't just give it to me. He corresponded to the individual he bought it from to try to get a lost title but they didn't want anything to do with it. I tried for a mechanics lean on motor home but I needed to have an established business to do so. The individual I bought the MH from has a son living in Wyoming 38 miles away from me. He was able to add his sons name to the title and he was able to get a Wyoming title after paying sales tax and fees (title not process before 60 days of sale) at 1% a month on unpaid balance.
Bruce Hart
1976 Palm Beach
1977 28' Kingsley
La Grange, Wyoming
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| Re: Hello to all! First potential MotorHome purchase [message #370884 is a reply to message #370883] |
Thu, 22 December 2022 18:34 |
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Jarrod Bagwell
Messages: 18
Registered: December 2022
Location: Crawfordville, Fl
Karma: 0
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Junior Member |
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Did some more research... so if you are in Florida, this is how it goes:
1. The onus is on the seller to provide you with a title upon sale. Technically, a sale that does not include title in Florida is illegal, but it happens all the time.
2. If the vehicle is less than 30 years old, you can get a bonded title through the DMV and a local bond company. Bond cost varies on the value of the vehicle
3. If the buyer never provides a title, then you fill out two forms and submit them to the local circuit judge. The forms essentially are a petition to the local judge to ask the judge to order the Florida DMV to transfer the title into your name. A bill of sale is pretty much required and you have to prove to the judge that you made a best faith effort to contact the title holder. If the judge grants your petition, you get the title.
I talked with the current owner of the GMC and he's good to try and track down the guy he bought it from, but most likely I'm going to have to take the small claims court route to get this thing legal.
I'm also going to make sure that I inspect the frame on this guy when I go to work on it this coming Monday. Any particular things I should be looking for?
Jarrod Bagwell
Potential 1973 GMC
Crawfordville, Florida
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| Re: Hello to all! First potential MotorHome purchase [message #370886 is a reply to message #370884] |
Thu, 22 December 2022 19:03 |
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Matt Colie
Messages: 8547
Registered: March 2007
Location: S.E. Michigan
Karma: 7
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Senior Member |
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Jarrod Bagwell wrote on Thu, 22 December 2022 19:34Did some more research... ,snip>
<snip>
I'm also going to make sure that I inspect the frame on this guy when I go to work on it this coming Monday. Any particular things I should be looking for?
Jarrod,
That sounds like a plan.
The frame is relatively light steel rolled into a channel. It can rust anywhere, so beat on the center of the frame rails and pay special attention to the areas where the channel is doubled up in the region of the rear wheels bogie bracket. The best thing about GMCs is that there is no structural wood to rot away. But, the floor areas between the front two seats and the windows are a know issue because of window leaks.
If you can get it and get it moving, be ready because all the rubber parts will need to be replaced. Not just tires and belts but all the hoses - Coolant, fuel and brake lines are problematic at best. Although these make for a large scale (by geographic size) the actual cash out of pocket if you do all the work (and there is no reason you cannot) is usually less than 2K$ all in. That is for tools and materials and about 30~40hours labor.
Matt again - please keep us informed - that way we can better advise others on your path.
Matt & Mary Colie - Chaumière -'73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan with OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Near DTW - Twixt A2 and Detroit
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| Re: Hello to all! First potential MotorHome purchase [message #370887 is a reply to message #370886] |
Thu, 22 December 2022 19:47 |
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Jarrod Bagwell
Messages: 18
Registered: December 2022
Location: Crawfordville, Fl
Karma: 0
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Junior Member |
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Right now, the current owner is asking for 1400. It's not ratted out on the inside so as long as the frame isn't rotting out and it's a runner that's not a terrible deal. Even if it runs I'm going to have to get it transported to my place as the tires are totally torched. Brakes are.... unknown. Not too worried about that though until I can look at the frame and get the engine running. As I mentioned, lower intake has to come off because someone removed the carb in the past and the squirrels and rats filled the intake with nuts. I've got a quadrajet carb to put on that's in one piece and the carb base gasket, so that should in theory work out. Throttle linkage is there and all the vacuum lines that connect to the carb seem to be in one piece.
All that said, the rubber will be fragile. I brought a '94 Mazda B3000 back to life where I had to replace all the rubber in the engine bay. Also brought back a '93 F250 with the same sort of issues. Had to rebuild multiple vacuum lines so the engine would idle and the HVAC controls would work.
I actually record most of my wrenching and post it to a YouTube channel so others can learn from the things I do. I intend to do the same with this GMC if I make the purchase.
Jarrod Bagwell
Potential 1973 GMC
Crawfordville, Florida
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