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belts, belts, belts [message #370625]

Tue, 04 October 2022 15:24

rjw

Messages: 697
Registered: September 2005

Karma: 4

Senior Member

This is a dual alternator belt setup. I installed a pair of belts
back in 2011 that lasted until this past spring. While driving I
heard a slapping sound that lasted 5 or 6 seconds. Wondering
what that was, I pulled off the expressway. Opened the hatch
and noticed the front alternator belt was missing. I was close
to an auto parts store and purchased a pair of 15570 belts.
Installed them and finished the trip home. Why that belt flew
off is part of a mystery. Once home I made the decision to
install a set of wider belts. I ordered 4 D&D Power Drive 15570
belts and installed those to the proper tension as specified in
the service manual. I used an alternator belt tensioner that I
purchased years ago.

About 1700 miles later I hear once again the slapping sound
again. I figured I had lost a belt again. Stopped in a rest area
and popped the hatch and instead of a missing belt, the belt
was twisted.
I cut that belt out figuring maybe the belt would come off and
take the other belts with it.
I am currently at my son's place outside of Louisville wondering
if I dare drive home or install another set I have with me.
The first pictures show the belts after I installed the new set. It
looks like the pulleys are cocked a bit. Maybe that is what is
wrong?

Any ideas?

Here's a pdf with pictures
http://palmbeachgmc.com/pics/belts%20belts%20belts.pdf

Richard
76 Palm Beach
SE Michigan
www.PalmBeachGMC.com

Roller Cam 455, TBI+EBL, 3.42 FD, 4 Bag, Macerator, Lenzi (brakes, vacuum system, front end stuff), Manny Tranny, vacuum step, Tankless + OEM water heaters.

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Re: belts, belts, belts [message #370632 is a reply to message #370625]

Tue, 04 October 2022 18:56

boybach

Messages: 566
Registered: December 2020
Location: Vancouver Island

Karma: 4

Senior Member

In the first pic it looks like the inner belt is damaged/has a nick/some cords showing?

How did you check the belt tension? These belts have to be extremely tight -I check mine with a Krikit gauge. A damaged/slack belt will often take a twist IME. They are no good afterwards.

Just go buy some new ones and tension them properly to spec (new belt spec is around 100) before setting off again, that would be my advice.

Larry

Larry - Victoria BC - 1977 ex-Palm Beach "Ol' Leaky" 40,000 miles, PO said everything working but forgot the word NOT. Atwood helium fridge, water heater & furnace. SS exhaust system, Onan, Iota Converter, R134A, New fuel lines & heat exchange hoses

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Re: belts, belts, belts [message #370633 is a reply to message #370625]

Tue, 04 October 2022 19:09

lqqkatjon

Messages: 2324
Registered: October 2010
Location: St. Cloud, MN

Karma: 5

Senior Member

My recent experience tells me that maybe your waterpump is going out.

Grab the fan and make sure the front of water pump is solid.

Belt was flipped on my friend’s eleganza and front bearing was shot.

My dad’s f-150 had some belt squeek. Turned out his waterpump bearing also shot.

Jon Roche 75 palm beach EBL EFI, manny headers, Micro Level, rebuilt most of coach now. St. Cloud, MN http://lqqkatjon.blogspot.com/

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Re: belts, belts, belts [message #370635 is a reply to message #370633]

Tue, 04 October 2022 20:04

Matt Colie

Messages: 8547
Registered: March 2007
Location: S.E. Michigan

Karma: 7

Senior Member

Well Richard,
You are ahead of me.
Sunday in Mid-September we went to Lansing for a gathering. We took our coach. This was to provide the confidence to run to Lebanon.
She was just terrific the whole way there. No hints of difficulty - Zip Zero Nada.....
Time to come home. She fired up and ran like expected. We were about 20 miles closer to home and Mary noticed that the Digi-Panel said the system voltage was low.
We pulled off the highway and I went under the hood and checked. The engine battery was lower than it should have been at 12.4. It's the alternator (he told himself).
So, I started the APU and hit the switch to parallel the systems. I'll fix it when we get home......
Back on the highway (I-96). Mary said she had lost the power steering. We both noticed the engine temp was high and I told her to shut it down. We got "safely" on the shoulder. Coolant had spit onto the windshield. We got stopped and a lot coolant steam came out.
We called for a tow. (I will drop this part of the story here as it is a whole other cluster "operation".
When things cooled off some, then I opened the engine hatch to see that there were no belts at all on the water pump sheave.....

We got her towed home.
I inspected what I could and found the A/C sheave is packed with gummy rubber. The belt was behind (to the rear) of the sheave and jammed against the A/C line there.
When recovered, inspecting all the belts it was clear that the A/C belt has started the cascade. The forward alternator belt was damaged and is now longer than the one closer to the engine. The inner alternator belt doesn't look real bad, but I bought a new set.

Other things have drive the priority now that the coach isn't going anywhere. I have to remove the top FEAD so I can remover the cylinder head covers and pull on the head bolts. It was a wet over heat (which is better than dry), but I still have to do the check torque to see if we lost any bolt tension. I did do a plugs out crank so be sure that there was no coolant in the cylinders and that was rewarding.

So, time goes on and now we have a lot more time to get ready for spring.

Matt

Matt & Mary Colie - Chaumière -'73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan with OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Near DTW - Twixt A2 and Detroit

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Re: belts, belts, belts [message #370637 is a reply to message #370632]

Wed, 05 October 2022 07:32

rjw

Messages: 697
Registered: September 2005

Karma: 4

Senior Member

boybach wrote on Tue, 04 October 2022 19:56

In the first pic it looks like the inner belt is damaged/has a nick/some cords showing?

How did you check the belt tension? These belts have to be extremely tight -I check mine with a Krikit gauge. A damaged/slack belt will often take a twist IME. They are no good afterwards.

Just go buy some new ones and tension them properly to spec (new belt spec is around 100) before setting off again, that would be my advice.

Larry

I checked the tension with a Kirkit gauge to the spec from the service manual. Maybe with a dual alternator belts that was too tight?

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Re: belts, belts, belts [message #370638 is a reply to message #370635]

Wed, 05 October 2022 07:45

rjw

Messages: 697
Registered: September 2005

Karma: 4

Senior Member

Matt Colie wrote on Tue, 04 October 2022 21:04

Well Richard,
You are ahead of me.
Sunday in Mid-September we went to Lansing for a gathering. We took our coach. This was to provide the confidence to run to Lebanon.
She was just terrific the whole way there. No hints of difficulty - Zip Zero Nada.....
Time to come home. She fired up and ran like expected. We were about 20 miles closer to home and Mary noticed that the Digi-Panel said the system voltage was low.
We pulled off the highway and I went under the hood and checked. The engine battery was lower than it should have been at 12.4. It's the alternator (he told himself).
So, I started the APU and hit the switch to parallel the systems. I'll fix it when we get home......
Back on the highway (I-96). Mary said she had lost the power steering. We both noticed the engine temp was high and I told her to shut it down. We got "safely" on the shoulder. Coolant had spit onto the windshield. We got stopped and a lot coolant steam came out.
We called for a tow. (I will drop this part of the story here as it is a whole other cluster "operation".
When things cooled off some, then I opened the engine hatch to see that there were no belts at all on the water pump sheave.....

We got her towed home.
I inspected what I could and found the A/C sheave is packed with gummy rubber. The belt was behind (to the rear) of the sheave and jammed against the A/C line there.
When recovered, inspecting all the belts it was clear that the A/C belt has started the cascade. The forward alternator belt was damaged and is now longer than the one closer to the engine. The inner alternator belt doesn't look real bad, but I bought a new set.

Other things have drive the priority now that the coach isn't going anywhere. I have to remove the top FEAD so I can remover the cylinder head covers and pull on the head bolts. It was a wet over heat (which is better than dry), but I still have to do the check torque to see if we lost any bolt tension. I did do a plugs out crank so be sure that there was no coolant in the cylinders and that was rewarding.

So, time goes on and now we have a lot more time to get ready for spring.

Matt

Matt,

What you have experienced makes my problems seem very trivial.

What it is still annoying is the fact I went close to 24 years without any problems with belts. When I replaced the motor and transmission 11 years ago I just threw on new belts and tightened them to what felt right and never looked back.

Now I've had issues with my A/C compressor belt with my Sanden setup and the accessories drive belts. The problems I had with the A/C belt was mostly caused by me. The other belt problems are being caused by something that changed, but I don't yet know what has changed.

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Re: belts, belts, belts [message #370639 is a reply to message #370625]

Wed, 05 October 2022 08:26

RF_Burns

Messages: 2276
Registered: June 2008
Location: S. Ontario, Canada

Karma: 3

Senior Member

Richard,

When I purchased the coach in 2008, I had Borrmann's install new belts with a dual alternator pulley. They were GatorBacks an I had no issues with them.

In about 2019 or 2020, I decided to replace the belts as they were looking worn. I tried several sets, this time with a single alternator belt, and each set would be squealing by the time we go to the Bush, about 25 miles away. No amount of tightening would allow us to get home before the squealing would start again.

At that point I decided to try implement/ industrial belts. So now likely 4K miles later, no issues with the implement. They do ride a bit higher, but that is better than riding too low. There is no indications of a groove where they ride high. They seem happy with less tension and have not seemed to stretched yet.

I bought mine at a local farm hardware store.

Bruce Hislop
ON Canada
77PB, 455 Dick P. rebuilt, DynamicEFI EBL EFI & ESC.
1 ton front end
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/showphoto.php?photo=29001
My Staff says I never listen to them, or something like that

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Re: belts, belts, belts [message #370643 is a reply to message #370638]

Wed, 05 October 2022 11:29

lqqkatjon

Messages: 2324
Registered: October 2010
Location: St. Cloud, MN

Karma: 5

Senior Member

Have you had the power steering pump off? There is a thick washer behind the adjuster bolt that sometimes is missing/lost.

Having a belt flip. Screams to me me something is off with the pullys. Make sure that waterpump feels good.

Jon Roche 75 palm beach EBL EFI, manny headers, Micro Level, rebuilt most of coach now. St. Cloud, MN http://lqqkatjon.blogspot.com/

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Re: belts, belts, belts [message #370644 is a reply to message #370643]

Wed, 05 October 2022 12:04

rjw

Messages: 697
Registered: September 2005

Karma: 4

Senior Member

lqqkatjon wrote on Wed, 05 October 2022 12:29

Have you had the power steering pump off? There is a thick washer behind the adjuster bolt that sometimes is missing/lost.

Having a belt flip. Screams to me me something is off with the pullys. Make sure that waterpump feels good.

As far as I can tell, the water pump appears to be solid in that there is no play that I can detect if I try to move it.

The power steering pump has been on for the past 11 years.

The remaining accessory drive belt looks like it has excessive wear. It only has about 1700 miles on it.

I have 2 pairs of accessory belts with me.

Should be enough to get me home (400 miles).

Yes something is amiss with the pulleys.

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