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OEM Fan Shroud - 1976 [message #370456] Wed, 07 September 2022 15:29 Go to next message
Bill Van Vlack is currently offline  Bill Van Vlack   United States
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I need to widen the flanges at the top and bottom of the fan shroud and figure that gluing something on as an overlay with a spacer might work. Anyone know what the shroud material is, and what to use for glue? Epoxy perhaps?

Thanks!


Bill Van Vlack '76 Royale; Guemes Island, Washington; Twin bed, full (DS) side bath, Brazilian Redwood counter and settee tops,455, 6KW generator; new owner a/o mid November 2015.
Re: OEM Fan Shroud - 1976 [message #370457 is a reply to message #370456] Wed, 07 September 2022 17:21 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Carl S. is currently offline  Carl S.   United States
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I think it's fiberglass. I would use an epoxy product plus some mechanical fasteners, like flathead stove bolts, countersunk.

You would be doing yourself a favor by getting a new two piece fan shroud as sold by several of the GMC Vendors (I got mine from Applied GMC)


Carl Stouffer '75 ex Palm Beach Tucson, AZ. Chuck Aulgur Reaction Arm Disc Brakes, Quadrabags, 3.70 LSD final drive, Lenzi knuckles/hubs, Dodge Truck 16" X 8" front wheels, Rear American Eagles, Solar battery charging. GMCSJ and GMCMI member
Re: OEM Fan Shroud - 1976 [message #370459 is a reply to message #370457] Wed, 07 September 2022 20:15 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Bill Van Vlack is currently offline  Bill Van Vlack   United States
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Registered: September 2015
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Karma: 14
Senior Member
Carl S. wrote on Wed, 07 September 2022 17:21
I think it's fiberglass. I would use an epoxy product plus some mechanical fasteners, like flathead stove bolts, countersunk.

You would be doing yourself a favor by getting a new two piece fan shroud as sold by several of the GMC Vendors (I got mine from Applied GMC)
Believe me, I've thought about it. I split the OEM shroud, removed the horse collar, and added a 3" aluminum extension and with a this centering adjustment it will fit the Mercedes fan with 1/2" clearance. I'm concerned that I might have to add to the aftermarket flange to center it as well and I will have to trim it to accept the Mercedes fan, but I certainly like the full coverage and I may switch over when I relocate and replace part of the transmission cooler(s) piping. They're in series, and the external cooler is fed with hose and clamped to the OEM steel pipe with hose clamps. Need to add proper fittings and routing to let the shroud drop straight down; at that point it will be much easier to change out the shroud.


Bill Van Vlack '76 Royale; Guemes Island, Washington; Twin bed, full (DS) side bath, Brazilian Redwood counter and settee tops,455, 6KW generator; new owner a/o mid November 2015.
Re: OEM Fan Shroud - 1976 [message #370460 is a reply to message #370459] Thu, 08 September 2022 09:10 Go to previous messageGo to next message
rjw   United States
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Bill Van Vlack wrote on Wed, 07 September 2022 21:15
Carl S. wrote on Wed, 07 September 2022 17:21
I think it's fiberglass. I would use an epoxy product plus some mechanical fasteners, like flathead stove bolts, countersunk.

You would be doing yourself a favor by getting a new two piece fan shroud as sold by several of the GMC Vendors (I got mine from Applied GMC)
Believe me, I've thought about it. I split the OEM shroud, removed the horse collar, and added a 3" aluminum extension and with a this centering adjustment it will fit the Mercedes fan with 1/2" clearance. I'm concerned that I might have to add to the aftermarket flange to center it as well and I will have to trim it to accept the Mercedes fan, but I certainly like the full coverage and I may switch over when I relocate and replace part of the transmission cooler(s) piping. They're in series, and the external cooler is fed with hose and clamped to the OEM steel pipe with hose clamps. Need to add proper fittings and routing to let the shroud drop straight down; at that point it will be much easier to change out the shroud.
I removed the horse collar and did that modification when I installed an aluminum radiator 17 years ago. Worked fine until the aluminum extension started to fall apart recently.

This year, I removed the rest of the aluminum extension and ran that way for a while. I found the fan clutch seem to engage more often without the extension. Rather then reinstall the aluminum, I got the split shroud from Applied thinking that it would work better. I found that it was a bear to install as I had to trim it in several places and it didn't quite fit as the bolt holes didn't line up. No instructions of course were included. My experience with the new shroud was that it didn't work any better than the OEM shroud without the extension. Also, it is in my mind a bit on the flimsy side as compared to the OEM.

I would have been better off repairing my OEM shroud, which I may end up doing. I'm glad I didn't get rid of the OEM shroud.

I do want to get the Mercedes fan to run with my EFI-EBL. Is that conversion documented anywhere? I don't need the controller that Applied sells just the fan and mounting hardware.


Richard
76 Palm Beach
SE Michigan
www.PalmBeachGMC.com

Roller Cam 455, TBI+EBL, 3.42 FD, 4 Bag, Macerator, Lenzi (brakes, vacuum system, front end stuff), Manny Tranny, vacuum step, Tankless + OEM water heaters.
Re: OEM Fan Shroud - 1976 [message #370463 is a reply to message #370460] Thu, 08 September 2022 11:25 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Bill Van Vlack is currently offline  Bill Van Vlack   United States
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Location: Guemes Island, Washington
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rjw wrote on Thu, 08 September 2022 09:10

I removed the horse collar and did that modification when I installed an aluminum radiator 17 years ago. Worked fine until the aluminum extension started to fall apart recently.

This year, I removed the rest of the aluminum extension and ran that way for a while. I found the fan clutch seem to engage more often without the extension. Rather then reinstall the aluminum, I got the split shroud from Applied thinking that it would work better. I found that it was a bear to install as I had to trim it in several places and it didn't quite fit as the bolt holes didn't line up. No instructions of course were included. My experience with the new shroud was that it didn't work any better than the OEM shroud without the extension. Also, it is in my mind a bit on the flimsy side as compared to the OEM.

I would have been better off repairing my OEM shroud, which I may end up doing. I'm glad I didn't get rid of the OEM shroud.

I do want to get the Mercedes fan to run with my EFI-EBL. Is that conversion documented anywhere? I don't need the controller that Applied sells just the fan and mounting hardware.
Great info, thanks Richard. If one could find a shroud from a 77/78 that covers the whole radiator, that is probably the best starting point.

The Mercedes fan will run full speed with a 12v signal. This page on the DynamicEFI site shows the fan control connections (bottom of page).

Applied sells Tom Pryor's new PWM controller that lets you set the duty cycle (i.e. how much the fan is engaged with the WP shaft). Straight 12v is 100% duty cycle; Tom found that 55% is sufficient and quiet. I believe if you speak with Applied you can get the version with a lead to connect to any controller or circuit that provides a grounded fan start signal. If not, I believe Tom can provide one.

Thought about WinLog-EBL dash?


Bill Van Vlack '76 Royale; Guemes Island, Washington; Twin bed, full (DS) side bath, Brazilian Redwood counter and settee tops,455, 6KW generator; new owner a/o mid November 2015.
Re: OEM Fan Shroud - 1976 [message #370465 is a reply to message #370456] Fri, 09 September 2022 14:13 Go to previous messageGo to next message
SteveW is currently offline  SteveW   United States
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Hello Bill, Hello Carl, Hello Richard !!

I've got the original Mercedes Fan Controller and this Version 2 has been on my todo list for a couple of years...

I've got access to the same PWM controller that Tom uses as we use them in my labs at work. I've been long contemplating total automation via some sort of PID controller that'll ramp fan speed up and down as necessary. So far - with casual research - I haven't found one that'll operate at 20Hz.

I've chatted with Tom a few times but we've haven't really done anything yet.

I recently retired so this project may shortly get some attention again.

And from the previously provided Dynamic EFI diagrams (Thank You Bill) - I figure that the PWM feed is in the terminal E to fan+ connection. How does this map to the 5 connections on the Mercedes Fan ?? (I'd go and look at my V1 but the coach isn't with me - it's over in storage).

Looking forward to any collaboration !!

Thanks again,
Steve W








Steve W 1973 : 23' Southern California
Re: OEM Fan Shroud - 1976 [message #370466 is a reply to message #370465] Sat, 10 September 2022 00:54 Go to previous message
Bill Van Vlack is currently offline  Bill Van Vlack   United States
Messages: 419
Registered: September 2015
Location: Guemes Island, Washington
Karma: 14
Senior Member
SteveW wrote on Fri, 09 September 2022 14:13
Hello Bill, Hello Carl, Hello Richard !!
And from the previously provided Dynamic EFI diagrams (Thank You Bill) - I figure that the PWM feed is in the terminal E to fan+ connection. How does this map to the 5 connections on the Mercedes Fan ?? (I'd go and look at my V1 but the coach isn't with me - it's over in storage).

Looking forward to any collaboration !!

Thanks again,
Steve W
If I remember correctly, only four are used; I think they're PWM, Speed signal, Speed 5v supply, and ground.

An arduino can create ttl PWM at 20Hz; A mosfet board can switch 12V using an arduino ttl PWM and PID duty cycle output. I haven't found a built product or products that does all that. I figured using the EBL serial signal was a good way to sense cooling temp without having to add a sensor, and its on/off signal with a relay can control when the mosfet output is applied to the fan.

I captured a single packet from the ebl and created an arduino sketch to transmit that packet continuously, then another sketch for a second arduino to accept and parse the packets. This winter I'll test it in a real EBL serial stream and work on the PID and PWM parts; timing/interrupt handling is the hard part I think.

Assuming the arduino does the job, I'll set it up so that I can switch from arduino to EBL control of the fan should my sketch logic fail in a way I haven't considered. I'll add an alarm point to my WinLog-EBL screen to play a wav file if cooling temp goes beyond the PID setpoint.

Anyway, that's my plan!

This may not be the best forum for collaboration, given the difficulty of photos and recent general flakiness. Maybe gmcmotorhome.org?


Bill Van Vlack '76 Royale; Guemes Island, Washington; Twin bed, full (DS) side bath, Brazilian Redwood counter and settee tops,455, 6KW generator; new owner a/o mid November 2015.

[Updated on: Sat, 10 September 2022 00:55]

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