Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » 1st Design Window Felt
| 1st Design Window Felt [message #369609] |
Fri, 06 May 2022 15:51  |
Greg C.
Messages: 224
Registered: October 2019
Location: Knoxville, TN
Karma: 0
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So I had several emails back and forth with Cliff Golby and ordered new felts for my 77 Royale. I have two 1st design windows, (one is in backwards) and the rest are second design. Cliff allowed that possibly the upfitter for my coach simply put in what they had at the time and mixed up the two styles.
Anyway, the big 1st design sliders were very hard to operate, and my wife can't move them at all. The felts were very deteriorated, but were not the original style with metal in them. So I spent some time taking the old ones out and installing the new ones. With the new lower one in, it still slid with difficulty. With new upper and lower, it would not slide at all. I even tried the Sil-Glide recommended by some to no avail. I used straight edges on the glass and the frames and discovered neither is straight, but curved. I thought that was the problem, but the frame and the glass kinda match, so after moving one end of the frame straight with wedges, it was no better, so I put it back as original.
After careful inspection, I determined that the glass is too tall. I then remembered someone saying they shaved some rubber from the back of the felt channel.
Always being one to do it the hard way, I fabbed a slicing fixture, using my bench top mill as an adjustable holding fixture. This worked pretty good after some practice, using WD40 as a lubricant, and using a back and forth motion to slice a little at a time.
[url=http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/data/7311/medium/Felt_Slicer.jpg] [url]
I made this out of some scrap aluminum and a utility knife blade. I taped up the other end of the blade to keep from slicing up my hand. The round pieces are there to hold the channel down tightly to the aluminum plate that the channel rides on.
Now the one window I have completed slides easier than it ever has before. I can actually close it to the latch position without having to go outside and shove it closed. If the glass had not been too tall, or the frames too short, or the felt channel too thick, (whichever was the real problem) I could have completed this task in less than an hour. As it was, two hours to make the fixture and 30 minutes to cut the channel, and 30 more minutes to install.
Greg Crawford
KM4ZCR
Knoxville, TN
"Ruby Sue"
1977 Royale
Rear Bath
403 Engine
American Eagle Wheels
Early Version Alex Sirum Quad bags
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| Re: 1st Design Window Felt [message #369631 is a reply to message #369609] |
Thu, 12 May 2022 16:44  |
dsmithy
Messages: 210
Registered: July 2012
Location: Lincoln Nebraska
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Greg,
You win the prize for figuring out what's up with first generation windows and the current available window channel. I don't know if anyone will jump for your "automated" solution, but I for one will take a much closer look at the window channel I'm installing on my '73. Thanks.
Douglas & Virginia Smith,
dsmithy18 at gmail,
Lincoln Nebraska,
’73 “Sequoia” since ‘95: "Wanabizo";
Quadrabag/6 wheel disks/3:70 final/Paterson QuadraJet/Thorley’s/Alloy wheels/Sundry other
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| Re: 1st Design Window Felt [message #369655 is a reply to message #369609] |
Sun, 15 May 2022 16:13 |
Greg C.
Messages: 224
Registered: October 2019
Location: Knoxville, TN
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Thanks Doug. I tried free hand whittling, but my patience expired before my skills improved. And it's not automated, I just use the mill to be able to adjust the blade height by thousands of an inch and to hold everything rigidly. Strictly hand powered process.
Now I am chasing down window leaks before I install the new insulation and FRP wall paneling. I'm doing a little bit at a time, so I can still go camping every few weeks. Right now the right side jack knife sofa and propane tank storage box are removed so I can fix some rotted floor and install new paneling at that location. That will make everything new from the pass. seat back to the door.
I decided while laying awake at 2 am this morning that the only way to fix the water leaking from the bottom of the window frame is to remove it, disassemble it, and seal the joints. However, I've looked in the 73-74 and 75-76 service manuals, and in the window section there is no mention of using a sealant at the window frame joints. There is a sub chamber on this frame that catches overflow water from the window felts and channels it to the drain slots. With the stainless band clamp around the frame, you can't get to any joints to smear sealant over them while the frame is in the coach, so it has to come apart.
Who has done this and did you use sealant at the frame joints?
Greg Crawford
KM4ZCR
Knoxville, TN
"Ruby Sue"
1977 Royale
Rear Bath
403 Engine
American Eagle Wheels
Early Version Alex Sirum Quad bags
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| Re: 1st Design Window Felt [message #369665 is a reply to message #369655] |
Sun, 15 May 2022 22:22 |
dsmithy
Messages: 210
Registered: July 2012
Location: Lincoln Nebraska
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Greg,
I am soooo glad that I don't have your problem. Just the random vagaries of the initial assembly, my crew was having a better day I suppose. I did just discover some dry rot under the Pass. toll window so I'll have to replace that plywood. I never would have discovered it if I hadn't gotten some mass sound proofing tiles and taken that carpet and pad up to install it. What amazes me is that the wood component I need to replace is in an aluminum structure that is in perfect condition. It's a damn complicated vehicle but its "good bones" encourage repair, not abandonment (or sale to an innocent and unsuspecting stranger). BTW, even though I'm a theatre guy and know the hour well, it's best not to be awake and thinking about your coach at 2AM. Just sayin'...
Douglas & Virginia Smith,
dsmithy18 at gmail,
Lincoln Nebraska,
’73 “Sequoia” since ‘95: "Wanabizo";
Quadrabag/6 wheel disks/3:70 final/Paterson QuadraJet/Thorley’s/Alloy wheels/Sundry other
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| Re: 1st Design Window Felt [message #369961 is a reply to message #369609] |
Wed, 15 June 2022 15:36 |
Greg C.
Messages: 224
Registered: October 2019
Location: Knoxville, TN
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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So it was time. I removed all the hex head sheet metal screws that fasten the window to the coach, and with help from my cousin-in-law, placed it face up on a plywood table next to the coach. The 4 piece frames are held together by a 15 foot long hose clamp, which consists of three pieces. Once this is off, there are four 3/8" or thicker aluminum blocks that are slid inside the water chamber of the frames, and these act as splice blocks connecting one frame piece to the next. There are two (sometimes) machine screws in each block, one for each piece of the frame it connects. I removed the screws, and then with a dead blow hammer, tapped the end frames gently off of the splice blocks. This allows the top and bottom frame some movement, and then the sliding window can be removed.
Some time back I asked the forum if the sliding window could be removed without taking the frame out, and I never received a clear answer. The answer is no, unless you have a glass company sand the top and bottom of the window to take about 1/8" off of it. But of course, you have to take the frame out to get the glass out to do this.
My coach had the good luck to have had a left side window installed on the right side. So the sliding window was to the rear, allowing rain water to enter the mullion seal while driving. After some more careful effort, the fixed panel was removed, and then the other end frame was tapped off the splice blocks.
I then sanded the frames and repainted them. I smeared quite a bit of polyurethane caulking on the splice blocks and inside the frames, and then reassembled one end frame and the top and bottom frame. I cleaned the rubber fixed glass seal thoroughly and placed the fixed glass into the assembly, this time in the correct end. Then the sliding panel went in, and the other end was caulked, tapped together, and the screws replaced. The hardest part was wrestling with the huge hose clamp. After a sweaty and caulk smeared interval, I managed to get it together using a couple of clamps to hold it.
My next move was a mistake. I put new butyl tape around the opening on the coach. Never again. If I have to do the other one, I will apply the butyl tape to the window frame instead. But I finally got it all installed. I had to drill two holes and move the window latch to the front of the frame, but now the window is properly oriented, and it passed the water hose leak test, so now I can continue with the new paneling in that area.
Greg Crawford
KM4ZCR
Knoxville, TN
"Ruby Sue"
1977 Royale
Rear Bath
403 Engine
American Eagle Wheels
Early Version Alex Sirum Quad bags
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