Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » Top tier gas question ( BP in or out? )
| Re: [GMCnet] Re: Top tier gas question [message #368051 is a reply to message #368049] |
Thu, 16 December 2021 02:57   |
Ken Burton
Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana
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You are correct. US and Canada both use R+M/2 AKI.
I would have said North American standard but from Mexico south (I believe) they all sell gas on the RON measurement method.
It is shame that over the years have used octane as a gimmick to denote quality. For years they used the terms regular or Ethyl. I remember when Shell started using TCP as an advertising item. TCP is a lead scavenger. Then they slowly introduced regular, silver, or Gold, and regular and premium. It is all an attempt to differentiate their brand from the next one down the street.
The US EPA has set so many tight controls on gasoline content now that they are all the same these days.
When they decided to encourage ethanol usage that was a place for the brands to try showing brand differences because it was not mandated everywhere. The govt EPA standards on detergents had to be allowed to be opened up higher because ethanol is a great detergent. The brands seized on that and used it for marketing purposes stating they that they were higher than EPA requirements.
Other things the EPA closely regulates is RVP (Reid Vapor Pressure) by setting standards by locality, usually by county, and time of year.
All of this stuff is available on the EPA's web site.
Try finding out what BP's "Invigorate" is and how much is used per gallon.
Sorry, I have not watched California's CARB (California Air Resources Board) and in Canada (I believe it is under Environment Canada CEPA). I do not really know what they are doing there or have done in the past.
This is more than you ever wanted to know. Right?
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
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| [GMCnet] Re: Top tier gas question [message #368052 is a reply to message #368022] |
Thu, 16 December 2021 06:43 |
k2gkk
Messages: 4452
Registered: November 2009
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Thank you for that explanation, Mark. It is basically
what I have expected. As one brand's advertisements
state "your weed eater doesn't deserve it."
D C "Mac" Macdonald
Amateur Radio K2GKK
Since 30 November '53
USAF and FAA, Retired
Member GMCMI & Classics
Oklahoma City, OK
"The Money Pit"
TZE166V101966
'76 ex-Palm Beach
k2gkk + hotmail dot com
________________________________
From: Mark Sawyer
Sent: Tuesday, December 14, 2021 11:24
To: gmclist@list.gmcnet.org
Subject: [GMCnet] Re: Top tier gas question
I'd read somewhere that some retailers are unable to get enough of some additives needed to be considered "Top Tier" at all locations. Since all
grades at all locations need to meet Top Tier requirements to be considered a retailer, brands on the list has been changing recently....
Yes, all "gasoline" comes from the same pipelines and can be considered a commodity....
It is the additive package that differentiates brands of gas. Detergents, anti-corrosives, stabilizers, etc.
As John L said, "Top Tier" is not a "marketing gimmick".. It is a set of requirements for those additives to keep your engine running well over time.
Yes, there is a fee that retailers need to pay Top Tier to be in the program, but if they don't meet the requirements, they can't "buy" their way on
to the list. It's probably the best way to ensure you are fueling your car with quality fuel.
You can geek out on the specifics of Top Tier over on Bob's the Oil Guy....
--
Mark S. '73 Painted Desert,
Manny 1 Ton Front End,
Howell Injection,
Leigh Harrison 4bag and Rear Brakes,
Fort Worth, TX
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| Re: [GMCnet] Re: Top tier gas question [message #368053 is a reply to message #368036] |
Thu, 16 December 2021 07:22 |
blur911
Messages: 166
Registered: December 2020
Location: Kingston, Ontario
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boybach wrote on Wed, 15 December 2021 12:06James Hupy wrote on Wed, 15 December 2021 07:53Newer car computers adjust nearly everything when you use 87 octane instead
of 92. Some even adjust variable valve timing and ignition advance and fuel
injection pulse width. My turbo charged, intercooled, dual overhead cam,
fuel injected, 2.4 liter engine in my PT Dream Cruiser changes nearly
everything when regular is used. Really noticeable power reduction,
especially on high turbo boost conditions.
Jim Hupy
Salem, Oregon
That's true, but my 94 Jag ECU doesn't do anything like that. The 95's do though. Fortunately things were factory set with enough latitude that I can burn regular with no problem. I don't even have to switch to sport mode to get it to haul ass, so regular is good enough for me.
Larry
I had 1990 Audi I-5 engines that would back off the timing upon detecting knock, most cars with knock sensors will do this, I think my '87 Audi 5k turbo did it too. You could really notice the power loss when it backed off, so 91 octane for them.
Burl Vibert
Kingston, Ontario
1976 GMC 26 foot, Sheridan reno, don't know original model but we call her Roxie
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| [GMCnet] Re: Top tier gas question [message #368055 is a reply to message #368051] |
Thu, 16 December 2021 07:17 |
k2gkk
Messages: 4452
Registered: November 2009
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AMOCO had long used unleaded gasoline and sold
three levels of octane. When I was stationed at
Keesler AFB (Biloxi, MS) in 1967 I bought fuel for
my 1965 Mustang (289 V-8) at the base gas station.
Gradually, the car got poorer fuel mileage and worse
performance (3,000 rpm maximum). I started to
fuel up at an AMOCO station (maybe mid-grade) and
soon the performance in all respects was back to
normal! Quality fuel DOES make a difference!
These days, I cannot detect any difference between
E-10 or E-0 fuels in modern vehicles. It might very
well be different in the GMC motorhome, but I can't
really say because the 455 engine turned out to be bad.
D C "Mac" Macdonald
Amateur Radio K2GKK
Since 30 November '53
USAF and FAA, Retired
Member GMCMI & Classics
Oklahoma City, OK
"The Money Pit"
TZE166V101966
'76 ex-Palm Beach
k2gkk + hotmail dot com
________________________________
From: Ken Burton
Sent: Thursday, December 16, 2021 02:57
To: gmclist@list.gmcnet.org
Subject: [GMCnet] Re: Top tier gas question
You are correct. US and Canada both use R+M/2 AKI.
I would have said North American standard but from Mexico south (I believe) they all sell gas on the RON measurement method.
It is shame that over the years have used octane as a gimmick to denote quality. For years they used the terms regular or Ethyl. I remember when
Shell started using TCP as an advertising item. TCP is a lead scavenger. Then they slowly introduced regular, silver, or Gold, and regular and
premium. It is all an attempt to differentiate their brand from the next one down the street.
The US EPA has set so many tight controls on gasoline content now that they are all the same these days.
When they decided to encourage ethanol usage that was a place for the brands to try showing brand differences because it was not mandated everywhere.
The govt EPA standards on detergents had to be allowed to be opened up higher because ethanol is a great detergent. The brands seized on that and
used it for marketing purposes stating they that they were higher than EPA requirements.
Other things the EPA closely regulates is RVP (Reid Vapor Pressure) by setting standards by locality, usually by county, and time of year.
All of this stuff is available on the EPA's web site.
Try finding out what BP's "Invigorate" is and how much is used per gallon.
Sorry, I have not watched California's CARB (California Air Resources Board) and in Canada (I believe it is under Environment Canada CEPA). I do not
really know what they are doing there or have done in the past.
This is more than you ever wanted to know. Right?
--
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
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| Re: Top tier gas question [message #368056 is a reply to message #368006] |
Thu, 16 December 2021 08:19 |
JohnL455
Messages: 4447
Registered: October 2006
Location: Woodstock, IL
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Again, Top Tier is a specific detergent package, not octane rating system.
My question is why BP, a major brand is not Top Tier.
To diverge, and back to GMCs, the one time I bought pure gas leaving the Amana convention, I had pinging on the way home and no improved MPG, even heading eastbound. Ethanol definitely helps raise octane or at least smooths combustion in my experience.
John Lebetski
Woodstock, IL
77 Eleganza II
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| Re: [GMCnet] Re: Top tier gas question [message #368058 is a reply to message #368053] |
Thu, 16 December 2021 11:41 |
boybach
Messages: 566
Registered: December 2020
Location: Vancouver Island
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blur911 wrote on Thu, 16 December 2021 05:22
I had 1990 Audi I-5 engines that would back off the timing upon detecting knock, most cars with knock sensors will do this, I think my '87 Audi 5k turbo did it too. You could really notice the power loss when it backed off, so 91 octane for them.
The Jag doesn't have knock sensors. I remember those Audi I-5s. Weren't they famed for exploding on the Coquihalla?  
Larry
Larry - Victoria BC -
1977 ex-Palm Beach "Ol' Leaky" 40,000 miles, PO said everything working but forgot the word NOT. Atwood helium fridge, water heater & furnace. SS exhaust system, Onan, Iota Converter, R134A, New fuel lines & heat exchange hoses
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| [GMCnet] Re: Top tier gas question [message #368059 is a reply to message #368056] |
Thu, 16 December 2021 11:37 |
James Hupy
Messages: 6806
Registered: May 2010
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Several years ago, a group of GMC Motorhomes crossed Canada coast to coast.
We all stopped at the same gas stations, and filled up each time with their
version of Supreme non ethanol gasoline that had a pump octane rating of
92. The gasoline stations were Petro Canada. Some of the coaches had 455
Olds engines, some 403 Olds engines and a 500 Cadillac powered one. Fuel
stops were first thing in the morning, and on long days, at mid day as
well. Some flat land, and some steep grades and Canadian Rockies at 10,000
feet or more. All of the coaches ran extremely well. Our coach, a 403
equipped 26 foot Royale, showed an overall improvement in mileage on the
magnitude of 3 mpg vs.ethanol laced fuel. Other coaches also described
similar improvements in mileage. My tailpipe was light grey, no sign of
carbon. Upon re-entering the USA near Niagra, New York, we filled up at a
self service gas station that had a dinosaur as a mascot. About 2 miles
down the road, our coach began to buck and snort and act like it was
running out of gas. As soon as I had used 1/2 tank or so, I filled up at a
Chevron Station with 87 octane, which we usually use in the states. As we
burned off the Dinosaur gas the drivability improved. Once we were cleared
of the evil brew, no further drivability issues were noticed the rest of
the way home to Oregon.
So, what did this prove? In our case, if we can get non ethanol gas we
will use that. Otherwise, we use Chevron Regular 87 octane. Top tier? I
don't know if it is real or an ad gimmick.
Jim Hupy
Salem, Oregon
On Thu, Dec 16, 2021 at 8:51 AM John R. Lebetski
wrote:
> Again, Top Tier is a specific detergent package, not octane rating system.
> My question is why BP, a major brand is not Top Tier.
>
> To diverge, and back to GMCs, the one time I bought pure gas leaving the
> Amana convention, I had pinging on the way home and no improved MPG, even
> heading eastbound. Ethanol definitely helps raise octane or at least
> smooths combustion in my experience.
> --
> John Lebetski
> Woodstock, IL
> 77 Eleganza II
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>
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| Re: [GMCnet] Re: Top tier gas question [message #368063 is a reply to message #368058] |
Thu, 16 December 2021 16:30 |
blur911
Messages: 166
Registered: December 2020
Location: Kingston, Ontario
Karma: 4
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boybach wrote on Thu, 16 December 2021 11:41blur911 wrote on Thu, 16 December 2021 05:22
I had 1990 Audi I-5 engines that would back off the timing upon detecting knock, most cars with knock sensors will do this, I think my '87 Audi 5k turbo did it too. You could really notice the power loss when it backed off, so 91 octane for them.
The Jag doesn't have knock sensors. I remember those Audi I-5s. Weren't they famed for exploding on the Coquihalla?
Larry
Probably it was the transmissions exploding on the 5000s with a turbo and and auto tranny. Mine was a 5-speed quattro, I miss that car.
Here in Canada we have what is called "winter gas", because of the reduced volatility in winter they can mix in cheaper butane (AFAIK).
As soon as it's here mileage drops in my vehicles by up to 10%.
Do you guys in the US have that?
Burl Vibert
Kingston, Ontario
1976 GMC 26 foot, Sheridan reno, don't know original model but we call her Roxie
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| Re: Top tier gas question [message #368066 is a reply to message #368056] |
Thu, 16 December 2021 17:44 |
Ken Burton
Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana
Karma: 10
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What is in the specific detergent package you are referring to other than 9 to 11% ethanol?
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
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| Re: Top tier gas question [message #368067 is a reply to message #368006] |
Thu, 16 December 2021 17:47 |
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Matt Colie
Messages: 8547
Registered: March 2007
Location: S.E. Michigan
Karma: 7
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Burl,
At least in Michigan we do have "winter gas". This last year it caused me a great deal of grief. Because of the Wuhan flu, we did very little of anything for that year or most of the next. Problem:: In November of 2019, I fueled the Chaumière for her winter storage. Then, more than we took one run in the next 18 months. She ran poorly at best for that run. When we got her out 4 months later it was even worse. We still had most of a full fuel load. We have vapor lock trouble. We had vapor lock trouble until we had replaced all of that old winter gas. I would have thought the butane would have left, but it was still vapor locking until we got most of the old fuel burned off. With a 450 mile tank range, that was still not clear when we got to Chippewa Falls that is only 650 miles.
An interesting note for those following this thread, early in our serious excursions with the coach I monitored the alcohol content of the purchased fuel along the way. Just as Jim described, the fuel rate increased (reduced MPG) by just about exactly the percentage of alcohol as measured. So, when I bought crapahol fuel, that added corn liquor was just filler to increase the price as far as I could tell. Unfortunately, every place I could buy real fuel it was enough more expensive so it was not economically prudent to buy it. I could live with the lower tank range.
Matt
Matt & Mary Colie - Chaumière -'73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan with OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Near DTW - Twixt A2 and Detroit
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| Re: Top tier gas question [message #368069 is a reply to message #368067] |
Thu, 16 December 2021 18:55 |
Ken Burton
Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana
Karma: 10
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Matt,
Since our county was forced by the EPA into the Chicago non-attainment area we have about 20 years longer putting up with 10% craponol laced fuel. Luckily for us the next county east is outside of the non-attainment area and lots of people bought fuel out of the county. I have years of comparison data in mileage differences During that time I had a territory that covered several states and bought lots of fuel outside the non-attainment area. My mileage comparisons on multiple GM and Hondas vehicles show an 11% average loss when using craponol diluted fuel. There are several stations in the next county that sell real fuel. The station at Walmart / Murphy and BP are the two I go to for E-0 when I am in the area. If you are coming through the area, the Murphy station is 2 blocks north of the Michigan City US421 on exit on of I-94.
My experience mirrors yours.
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
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| [GMCnet] Re: Top tier gas question [message #368072 is a reply to message #368069] |
Thu, 16 December 2021 21:57 |
James Hupy
Messages: 6806
Registered: May 2010
Karma: -62
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There is an unseen benefit to government agencies with alcohol blended
fuels. We all simply use more of the stuff. As the fuel goes out the hose,
the taxes add up. More fuel use, more revenue for the government. Many of
them are wringing their hands, gnashing their teeth, while moaning out loud
because EV's don't use any fuel and there is a loss of tax revenue as a
result. Oregon is studying per mile traveled as a replacement for those
lost taxes. Even to the point of installing recording odometers linked
electronically to the dept of revenue. Ah yes, and so it goes.
Jim Hupy
Salem, Oregon
On Thu, Dec 16, 2021, 5:31 PM Ken Burton wrote:
> Matt,
>
> Since our county was forced by the EPA into the Chicago non-attainment
> area we have about 20 years longer putting up with 10% craponol laced fuel.
> Luckily for us the next county east is outside of the non-attainment area
> and lots of people bought fuel out of the county. I have years of
> comparison data in mileage differences During that time I had a
> territory that covered several states and bought lots of fuel outside the
> non-attainment area. My mileage comparisons on multiple GM and Hondas
> vehicles show an 11% average loss when using craponol diluted fuel. There
> are
> several stations in the next county that sell real fuel. The station at
> Walmart / Murphy and BP are the two I go to for E-0 when I am in the area.
> If you are coming through the area, the Murphy station is 2 blocks north
> of the Michigan City US421 on exit on of I-94.
>
> My experience mirrors yours.
> --
> Ken Burton - N9KB
> 76 Palm Beach
> Hebron, Indiana
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
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| [GMCnet] Re: Top tier gas question [message #368073 is a reply to message #368072] |
Thu, 16 December 2021 22:39 |
GMCWiperMan
Messages: 1248
Registered: December 2007
Karma: 1
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I strongly expect that within 5 years or so we'll all have to equip our
cars (that don't come pre-equipped) with a bluetooth (or similar) connected
odometer that will talk to strategically located "miles collectors" for
"our" tax departments. We'll get periodic bills for miles driven, just
like water or light bills. I don't see how it can be otherwise with EV's
becoming common. We may even be charged a different per mile
rate depending upon the road's "quality".
Ken H.
On Thu, Dec 16, 2021 at 10:57 PM James Hupy wrote:
> There is an unseen benefit to government agencies with alcohol blended
> fuels. We all simply use more of the stuff. As the fuel goes out the hose,
> the taxes add up. More fuel use, more revenue for the government. Many of
> them are wringing their hands, gnashing their teeth, while moaning out loud
> because EV's don't use any fuel and there is a loss of tax revenue as a
> result. Oregon is studying per mile traveled as a replacement for those
> lost taxes. Even to the point of installing recording odometers linked
> electronically to the dept of revenue. Ah yes, and so it goes.
> Jim Hupy
> Salem, Oregon
>
> On Thu, Dec 16, 2021, 5:31 PM Ken Burton wrote:
>
>> Matt,
>>
>> Since our county was forced by the EPA into the Chicago non-attainment
>> area we have about 20 years longer putting up with 10% craponol laced
> fuel.
>> Luckily for us the next county east is outside of the non-attainment area
>> and lots of people bought fuel out of the county. I have years of
>> comparison data in mileage differences During that time I had a
>> territory that covered several states and bought lots of fuel outside the
>> non-attainment area. My mileage comparisons on multiple GM and Hondas
>> vehicles show an 11% average loss when using craponol diluted fuel.
> There
>> are
>> several stations in the next county that sell real fuel. The station at
>> Walmart / Murphy and BP are the two I go to for E-0 when I am in the
> area.
>> If you are coming through the area, the Murphy station is 2 blocks north
>> of the Michigan City US421 on exit on of I-94.
>>
>> My experience mirrors yours.
>> --
>> Ken Burton - N9KB
>> 76 Palm Beach
>> Hebron, Indiana
>> _______________________________________________
>> GMCnet mailing list
>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>
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| Re: [GMCnet] Re: Top tier gas question [message #368074 is a reply to message #368073] |
Fri, 17 December 2021 01:31 |
Ken Burton
Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana
Karma: 10
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Senior Member |
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GMCWiperMan wrote on Thu, 16 December 2021 22:39I strongly expect that within 5 years or so we'll all have to equip our
cars (that don't come pre-equipped) with a bluetooth (or similar) connected
odometer that will talk to strategically located "miles collectors" for
"our" tax departments. We'll get periodic bills for miles driven, just
like water or light bills. I don't see how it can be otherwise with EV's
becoming common. We may even be charged a different per mile
rate depending upon the road's "quality".
Ken H.
On Thu, Dec 16, 2021 at 10:57 PM James Hupy wrote:
That has been the direction some states have headed for the last 50 years. In my state we had only one toll road that was built before the Interstate system. It was suppose to be made free after the bonds were paid off. Well instead of becoming free they leased it out on a 75 year contract and were paid 3.8 Billion up front. When the company went bankrupt after a few years, an Australian company paid 5.73 billion to take it over for 66 years. Where does all of that money eventually come from? Us the users.
We had another freeway (Indiana 912) that the bridge fell down once, was replaced, and after a few years was condemned. The state refused to replace it. A private company bought the rights to the road, replaced the bridge, and now charges tolls. No one uses it because the tolls are exorbitant. They advertise on the radio, put up bill boards along the highway but the customers do not come. There are no toll booths. They do everything by transponder and license plate readers.
The worse one here is the new bridge they built to Louisville, Kentucky. They also made it toll ($5.00 I think) There were already two other free ones, so they simply added tolls to them forcing users to pay a toll on existing ones plus the new bridges.
We already have toll and truck scale transponders and readers. Simply make a new transponder and require it to be plugged into the OBDII port of you car to read you accumulated mileage via WiFi, Blue tooth or cell phone. My Equinox came already equipped with ON Star which I shut off and removed completely. They did not ask if I wanted it.
The Illinois System is much worse. From their web site they say they average just under $1,000,000 a day in toll collections and that is just in NE Illinois and one road across the state. I paid them just under $300 last year myself and I do not even live in that state.
It is coming. I just do not know how soon.
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
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| [GMCnet] Re: Top tier gas question [message #368077 is a reply to message #368067] |
Fri, 17 December 2021 09:22 |
Keith V
Messages: 2337
Registered: March 2008
Location: Mounds View,MN
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Has anyone done a cost /benefit analysis on non ethanol gas ?
Is the MPG gain worth it?
I mean if you get 9 mpg at $3 per gallon and no ethanol gets you 12 mpg.
that means:
3 $/gal / (9 miles/gal) = 0.33 $/mile
0.33 $/mile * (12 miles /gallon) = $3.96 per gallon
if the gas is less than $3.96 / gallon, non ethanol is cheaper per mile. Right?
Thats quite a bit of price headroom!
Keith Vasilakes
Mounds View MN
76 exRoyale
MicroLevel
________________________________
From: Matt Colie
Sent: Thursday, December 16, 2021 5:47 PM
To: gmclist@list.gmcnet.org
Subject: [GMCnet] Re: Top tier gas question
Burl,
At least in Michigan we do have "winter gas". This last year it caused me a great deal of grief. Because of the Wuhan flu, we did very little of
anything for that year or most of the next. Problem:: In November of 2019, I fueled the Chaumière for her winter storage. Then, more than we took
one run in the next 18 months. She ran poorly at best for that run. When we got her out 4 months later it was even worse. We still had most of a
full fuel load. We have vapor lock trouble. We had vapor lock trouble until we had replaced all of that old winter gas. I would have thought the
butane would have left, but it was still vapor locking until we got most of the old fuel burned off. With a 450 mile tank range, that was still not
clear when we got to Chippewa Falls that is only 650 miles.
An interesting note for those following this thread, early in our serious excursions with the coach I monitored the alcohol content of the purchased
fuel along the way. Just as Jim described, the fuel rate increased (reduced MPG) by just about exactly the percentage of alcohol as measured. So,
when I bought crapahol fuel, that added corn liquor was just filler to increase the price as far as I could tell. Unfortunately, every place I could
buy real fuel it was enough more expensive so it was not economically prudent to buy it. I could live with the lower tank range.
Matt
--
Matt & Mary Colie - Chaumière -'73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan with OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Near DTW - Twixt A2 and Detroit
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Keith Vasilakes
Mounds View. MN
75 ex Royale GMC
ask me about MicroLevel
Cell, 763-732-3419
My427v8@hotmail.com
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| Re: Top tier gas question [message #368085 is a reply to message #368006] |
Fri, 17 December 2021 16:59 |
boybach
Messages: 566
Registered: December 2020
Location: Vancouver Island
Karma: 4
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Senior Member |
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So I just filled up so I can keep the tanks full for the rest of the winter.
Ol' Leaky ran like a bird but took a while to get warmed up, 0°C/32°F this morning here on the island. I was able to drive with one hand warming up on a hot coffee and the other on the steering wheel - apart from the test run a couple of weeks ago, this was the first time it didn't take BOTH hands on the wheel saying my prayers. Nice to have steering centered and the wheels aligned!!
The fill up ran me C$151 and at 1.52/l so I'm going to say 100 litres or 26.4 US gallons. Last trip I ran out to Port Renfrew and back and probably used the Onan about 4 hrs or so. Home base to Renfrew, (twisty west coast road, lots of up and downs, some steep almost all bumpy/road works/delays and hard to get above 50mph, lots of second gear running) is about 60 miles plus a bit of running around so about 130 round trip ...doing the math it works out to about 5/mpg  if I discount the Onan usage.
Say the Onan burns 2-1/2 gal/hr (not sure on that) ...I guess that would account for 10 gallons, right? So removing the Onan from the equation = 16.4 gallons for the 130 mile trip, bringing the mileage up a bit to about 8mpg.
Of course all this math really depends on whether the tank was full when I started the last trip AND - to be honest I don't really care about the cost that much, I had a great summer anyway!
Larry
Larry - Victoria BC -
1977 ex-Palm Beach "Ol' Leaky" 40,000 miles, PO said everything working but forgot the word NOT. Atwood helium fridge, water heater & furnace. SS exhaust system, Onan, Iota Converter, R134A, New fuel lines & heat exchange hoses
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