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EFI and Electronic Ignition Initial Start Up Questions [message #367887]

Wed, 08 December 2021 18:46

Tom Katzenberger

Messages: 399
Registered: June 2019
Location: Kingsville, MD

Karma: 4

Senior Member

Early Merry Christmas to all,

What are some considerations with regard to initial startup after EFI and Electronic Ignition installation? How long does it take to get the fuel to the throttle body?

Any additional thought and tips are very much appreciated.

I just started the Onan after the Bovee electronic ignition installation and WOW does it run smooth.

Thank in advance,
Tom K.

Tom & Oki Katzenberger, Kingsville, Maryland, 1977 23' Birchaven, 455 C.I.D., Micro Level, Howell EBL-EFI Spark Control, Macerator, York Air Compressor, 6 Wheel Disc, Quadra Bag, Onan W/Bovee Ignition

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Re: EFI and Electronic Ignition Initial Start Up Questions [message #367889 is a reply to message #367887]

Wed, 08 December 2021 20:28

Bill Van Vlack

Messages: 419
Registered: September 2015
Location: Guemes Island, Washington

Karma: 14

Senior Member

It should take a couple seconds for the fuel to get there.
As far as initial setup, etc.... Which system do you have, and did it come with instructions?

Bill Van Vlack '76 Royale; Guemes Island, Washington; Twin bed, full (DS) side bath, Brazilian Redwood counter and settee tops,455, 6KW generator; new owner a/o mid November 2015.

[Updated on: Wed, 08 December 2021 21:43]

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[GMCnet] Re: EFI and Electronic Ignition Initial Start Up Questions [message #367893 is a reply to message #367889]

Wed, 08 December 2021 22:43

jimk

Messages: 6734
Registered: July 2006
Location: Belmont, CA

Karma: 9

Senior Member

On an EFI the pump will run for 10 seconds at a time, so youll need to jump
the pump and pull the fuel up to the throttle body,
If it was not a fresh engine, one can pour some fuel and prime as once the
distributor turns with the engine on, the pump will come on full time.

On Wed, Dec 8, 2021 at 7:11 PM Bill Van Vlack
wrote:

> It should take a couple seconds if...
>
> As far as initial setup, etc.... Which system do you have, and did it
> come with instructions?
> --
> Bill Van Vlack
> '76 Royale; Guemes Island, Washington; Twin bed, full (DS) side bath,
> Brazilian Redwood counter and settee tops,455, 6KW generator; new owner a/o
> mid
> November 2015.
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>

--
Jim Kanomata ASE
Applied/GMC, Newark,CA
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
http://www.gmcrvparts.com
1-800-752-7502
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Applied/GMC
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Re: EFI and Electronic Ignition Initial Start Up Questions [message #367894 is a reply to message #367887]

Thu, 09 December 2021 06:48

Tom Katzenberger

Messages: 399
Registered: June 2019
Location: Kingsville, MD

Karma: 4

Senior Member

Thank you Jim. The lines are new stainless and they are dry.

The Kit is a Howell EFI supplied by Jim. It didn't start right away and I didn't want to burn up the starter. I cranked once for about 5 to 10 seconds and called it a night. I also didn't want to doubt my original work and reset the distributor with the #1 piston at top dead center.

If it take several attempts I will continue.

Thanks all,
Tom K.

Tom & Oki Katzenberger, Kingsville, Maryland, 1977 23' Birchaven, 455 C.I.D., Micro Level, Howell EBL-EFI Spark Control, Macerator, York Air Compressor, 6 Wheel Disc, Quadra Bag, Onan W/Bovee Ignition

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[GMCnet] Re: EFI and Electronic Ignition Initial Start Up Questions [message #367895 is a reply to message #367894]

Thu, 09 December 2021 10:07

Keith V

Messages: 2337
Registered: March 2008
Location: Mounds View,MN

Karma: 0

Senior Member

The pump should run on ign on AND run while cranking.
You DO need to have the start sense wire for that to happen tho.
If you don't have the starter sense wire connected the fuel pump wont run and I doubt your engine will ever start
________________________________
From: tomkatz3@comcast.net
Sent: Thursday, December 9, 2021 6:48 AM
To: gmclist@list.gmcnet.org
Subject: [GMCnet] Re: EFI and Electronic Ignition Initial Start Up Questions

Thank you Jim. The lines are new stainless and they are dry.

The Kit is a Howell EFI supplied by Jim. It didn't start right away and I didn't want to burn up the starter. I cranked once for about 5 to 10 seconds
and called it a night. I also didn't want to doubt my original work and reset the distributor with the #1 piston at top dead center.

If it take several attempts I will continue.

Thanks all,
Tom K.
--
Tom & Oki Katzenberger,
Kingsville, Maryland,
1977 23' Birchaven, 455 C.I.D.
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Keith Vasilakes
Mounds View. MN
75 ex Royale GMC
ask me about MicroLevel
Cell, 763-732-3419
My427v8@hotmail.com

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Re: EFI and Electronic Ignition Initial Start Up Questions [message #367896 is a reply to message #367887]

Thu, 09 December 2021 10:40

RF_Burns

Messages: 2277
Registered: June 2008
Location: S. Ontario, Canada

Karma: 3

Senior Member

IMPORTANT: Make sure your IGNition power source has power while cranking. Check with a test light to be sure your IGNition power source does have power while cranking, otherwise it will NEVER start.

The ECM controls the operation of the pump through a relay. When you first turn the Ignition key to the ON position, you should hear the fuel pump run for 2-3 seconds to prime the system, then stops. If you don't hear the fuel pump run, then likely it is not running at all, so troubleshoot that first.

There is a timer so if you turn the key OFF then back ON again, the pump may not run again, unless the key has been OFF for a set time. I do not know how long this time is, maybe a minute?? Hopefully someone else knows.

The pump restarts when you crank the engine and runs continuously while the engine is running, but it will stop if the engine stalls. You likely can't hear the pump running while cranking over the starter noise.

I believe the Howell system has a separate fuse in the lead for the fuel pump relay.

My 2017 GMC pickup will run the fuel pump for a few seconds when the driver's door is opened after it has been sitting for a few hours to prime the fuel system.

Bruce Hislop
ON Canada
77PB, 455 Dick P. rebuilt, DynamicEFI EBL EFI & ESC.
1 ton front end
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/showphoto.php?photo=29001
My Staff says I never listen to them, or something like that

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Re: EFI and Electronic Ignition Initial Start Up Questions [message #367897 is a reply to message #367887]

Thu, 09 December 2021 10:42

Tom Katzenberger

Messages: 399
Registered: June 2019
Location: Kingsville, MD

Karma: 4

Senior Member

Fuel pressure is up. I cranked twice for about another 10 seconds each. There was not even a miss fire. I will check electric at the plug and maybe re-set the distributor.

Thanks Keith

Tom & Oki Katzenberger, Kingsville, Maryland, 1977 23' Birchaven, 455 C.I.D., Micro Level, Howell EBL-EFI Spark Control, Macerator, York Air Compressor, 6 Wheel Disc, Quadra Bag, Onan W/Bovee Ignition

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[GMCnet] Re: EFI and Electronic Ignition Initial Start Up Questions [message #367899 is a reply to message #367897]

Thu, 09 December 2021 12:00

James Hupy

Messages: 6806
Registered: May 2010

Karma: -62

Senior Member

If you have a check engine light, when you first turn on the ignition
switch, it should light. If it does not, your ignition is not working. It
should go out immediately after engine start. Go back, check every
electrical connector on every sensor. Insure that you have followed the
installation instructions precisely. Pay particular attention to the
connection from the ignition module to the coil-in-cap. As well as the
ignition wire to the coil-in-cap. Check all your fuses on the computer.
Check all your grounds. Randy Van Winkle is a huge help on the Howell
System. Perhaps he will comment here?
Jim Hupy
Salem, Oregon

On Thu, Dec 9, 2021, 9:36 AM wrote:

> Fuel pressure is up. I cranked twice for about another 10 seconds each.
> There was not even a miss fire. I will check electric at the plug and maybe
> re-set the distributor.
>
> Thanks Keith
> --
> Tom & Oki Katzenberger,
> Kingsville, Maryland,
> 1977 23' Birchaven, 455 C.I.D.
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>
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Re: EFI and Electronic Ignition Initial Start Up Questions [message #367900 is a reply to message #367897]

Thu, 09 December 2021 12:30

rvanwin

Messages: 325
Registered: April 2007
Location: Battlefield, MO

Karma: 6

Senior Member

Tom Katzenberger wrote on Thu, 09 December 2021 10:42

Fuel pressure is up. I cranked twice for about another 10 seconds each. There was not even a miss fire. I will check electric at the plug and maybe re-set the distributor.

Thanks Keith

If you have fuel pressure which should be constant somewhere between 16 to 18 psi. If you have that kind of pressure and it stays consistent during cranking then the fuel pump must be running. I would first check to see if the injectors are spraying fuel. If they are then you may have an issue with the spark system. Are you getting any trouble codes?

Randy & Margie
'77 Eleganza II '403'
Battlefield, MO

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Re: EFI and Electronic Ignition Initial Start Up Questions [message #367901 is a reply to message #367900]

Thu, 09 December 2021 12:44

rvanwin

Messages: 325
Registered: April 2007
Location: Battlefield, MO

Karma: 6

Senior Member

rvanwin wrote on Thu, 09 December 2021 12:30

Tom Katzenberger wrote on Thu, 09 December 2021 10:42
Fuel pressure is up. I cranked twice for about another 10 seconds each. There was not even a miss fire. I will check electric at the plug and maybe re-set the distributor.

Thanks Keith
If you have fuel pressure which should be constant somewhere between 16 to 18 psi. If you have that kind of pressure and it stays consistent during cranking then the fuel pump must be running. I would first check to see if the injectors are spraying fuel. If they are then you may have an issue with the spark system. Are you getting any trouble codes?

I meant to say if the injectors are not spraying, then you might have a problem with the ignition system. If the ECM is not getting a proper signal from the distributor it will suppress firing of the injectors. If there is a problem with the ignition system you should be getting a trouble code set, e.g., the check engine light will be on continuously. Occasionally, it will not set a code depending on the particular issue. As Jim H said, the check engine light will come on when you turn the key on but should go out once started. If it stays on then report back the code. Does this system have the EBL upgrade?

Randy & Margie
'77 Eleganza II '403'
Battlefield, MO

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Re: EFI and Electronic Ignition Initial Start Up Questions [message #367902 is a reply to message #367887]

Thu, 09 December 2021 13:32

Tom Katzenberger

Messages: 399
Registered: June 2019
Location: Kingsville, MD

Karma: 4

Senior Member

Thank you all,

Randy,

I do have a check engine light illuminated. Fuel pressure is up. I will recheck all connections and fuses. I look forward to finding something stupid which I overlooked. LOL. Thank you guys for all your help.

Take care,
Tom K.

Tom & Oki Katzenberger, Kingsville, Maryland, 1977 23' Birchaven, 455 C.I.D., Micro Level, Howell EBL-EFI Spark Control, Macerator, York Air Compressor, 6 Wheel Disc, Quadra Bag, Onan W/Bovee Ignition

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[GMCnet] Re: EFI and Electronic Ignition Initial Start Up Questions [message #367903 is a reply to message #367902]

Thu, 09 December 2021 13:57

Dave Stragand

Messages: 307
Registered: October 2017

Karma: 0

Senior Member

You wouldn't be the first person to have forgotten to put fuel in the tank(s) after a rebuild... so just to check, you have at least 10-15 gallons in?

-Dave
1978 Transmode near Pittsburgh
________________________________
From: tomkatz3@comcast.net
Sent: Thursday, December 9, 2021 2:32 PM
To: gmclist@list.gmcnet.org
Subject: [GMCnet] Re: EFI and Electronic Ignition Initial Start Up Questions

Thank you all,

Randy,

I do have a check engine light illuminated. Fuel pressure is up. I will recheck all connections and fuses. I look forward to finding something stupid
which I overlooked. LOL. Thank you guys for all your help.

Take care,
Tom K.
--
Tom & Oki Katzenberger,
Kingsville, Maryland,
1977 23' Birchaven, 455 C.I.D.
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1978 Transmode (403) Pittsburgh, PA

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Re: EFI and Electronic Ignition Initial Start Up Questions [message #367904 is a reply to message #367887]

Thu, 09 December 2021 15:37

Tom Katzenberger

Messages: 399
Registered: June 2019
Location: Kingsville, MD

Karma: 4

Senior Member

Thanks Dave, Check on fuel. I just ran to Pennsylvania to get 20 gal none ethanol fuel due to the fact I don't know how long I will be under construction.

I did find the distributor was set with the cap at the #7 position when the #1 was up on the compression stroke. I am readjusting so that the cap is on #1 when the #1 is up on a compression stroke.

If I get it running should I use a timing light to adjust the timing or will the computer take over?

Thanks,
Tom

Tom & Oki Katzenberger, Kingsville, Maryland, 1977 23' Birchaven, 455 C.I.D., Micro Level, Howell EBL-EFI Spark Control, Macerator, York Air Compressor, 6 Wheel Disc, Quadra Bag, Onan W/Bovee Ignition

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Re: EFI and Electronic Ignition Initial Start Up Questions [message #367905 is a reply to message #367904]

Thu, 09 December 2021 15:56

Bill Van Vlack

Messages: 419
Registered: September 2015
Location: Guemes Island, Washington

Karma: 14

Senior Member

I think you need to decide how much initial advance you have/want and then set it with the timing light. Then tell the computer how much initial advance you've dialed in and it should take it from there.

Bill Van Vlack '76 Royale; Guemes Island, Washington; Twin bed, full (DS) side bath, Brazilian Redwood counter and settee tops,455, 6KW generator; new owner a/o mid November 2015.

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[GMCnet] Re: EFI and Electronic Ignition Initial Start Up Questions [message #367906 is a reply to message #367904]

Thu, 09 December 2021 15:59

James Hupy

Messages: 6806
Registered: May 2010

Karma: -62

Senior Member

Set the distributor at 10° btdc. Number 1 piston on compression stroke. The
computer should take it from there.
Jim Hupy
Salem, Oregon

On Thu, Dec 9, 2021, 1:55 PM wrote:

> Thanks Dave, Check on fuel. I just ran to Pennsylvania to get 20 gal none
> ethanol fuel due to the fact I don't know how long I will be under
> construction.
>
> I did find the distributor was set with the cap at the #7 position when
> the #1 was up on the compression stroke. I am readjusting so that the cap is
> on #1 when the #1 is up on a compression stroke.
>
> If I get it running should I use a timing light to adjust the timing or
> will the computer take over?
>
> Thanks,
> Tom
> --
> Tom & Oki Katzenberger,
> Kingsville, Maryland,
> 1977 23' Birchaven, 455 C.I.D.
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>
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Re: EFI and Electronic Ignition Initial Start Up Questions [message #367907 is a reply to message #367887]

Thu, 09 December 2021 16:57

Tom Katzenberger

Messages: 399
Registered: June 2019
Location: Kingsville, MD

Karma: 4

Senior Member

Thanks guys I set to 4 degrees, but will move to 10 degrees. We have no spark coming out at the #1 plug wire?

Tom & Oki Katzenberger, Kingsville, Maryland, 1977 23' Birchaven, 455 C.I.D., Micro Level, Howell EBL-EFI Spark Control, Macerator, York Air Compressor, 6 Wheel Disc, Quadra Bag, Onan W/Bovee Ignition

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[GMCnet] Re: EFI and Electronic Ignition Initial Start Up Questions [message #367909 is a reply to message #367907]

Thu, 09 December 2021 17:08

James Hupy

Messages: 6806
Registered: May 2010

Karma: -62

Senior Member

If you have no spark, then you also will not have injectors spraying fuel.
You definitely need to look at the ignition primary source. If you have
current present, then you more than likely have an issue with the computer.
Jim Hupy
Salem, Oregon

On Thu, Dec 9, 2021, 2:58 PM wrote:

> Thanks guys I set to 4 degrees, but will move to 10 degrees. We have no
> spark coming out at the #1 plug wire?
> --
> Tom & Oki Katzenberger,
> Kingsville, Maryland,
> 1977 23' Birchaven, 455 C.I.D.
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>
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Re: EFI and Electronic Ignition Initial Start Up Questions [message #367910 is a reply to message #367887]

Thu, 09 December 2021 17:48

Tom Katzenberger

Messages: 399
Registered: June 2019
Location: Kingsville, MD

Karma: 4

Senior Member

Jim,

Check engine light stays illuminated through cranking. No fuel, no spark. I re-checked the harness. 12.0v going to computer while cranking. It appears that we have fuel pressure, so the gauge says.

I am out of ideas and into the unknown. Maybe you are correct and I may have a bad computer? I don't know what else to check. I did move the timing to 10 degrees. I believe I should have gotten a spark even a 4 degrees. what do you think?

Thanks,
Tom

Tom & Oki Katzenberger, Kingsville, Maryland, 1977 23' Birchaven, 455 C.I.D., Micro Level, Howell EBL-EFI Spark Control, Macerator, York Air Compressor, 6 Wheel Disc, Quadra Bag, Onan W/Bovee Ignition

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Re: EFI and Electronic Ignition Initial Start Up Questions [message #367912 is a reply to message #367910]

Thu, 09 December 2021 18:30

Bill Van Vlack

Messages: 419
Registered: September 2015
Location: Guemes Island, Washington

Karma: 14

Senior Member

Does the ECM have the FlashII EBL add-on by Dynamic_EFI or a chip from Howell?

If EBL, have you set up the Windows software and connected the USB cable? The EBL requires a BIN file for a 403 or 455, depending on your engine. Do you know what BIN was supplied with the kit?

Bill Van Vlack '76 Royale; Guemes Island, Washington; Twin bed, full (DS) side bath, Brazilian Redwood counter and settee tops,455, 6KW generator; new owner a/o mid November 2015.

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[GMCnet] Re: EFI and Electronic Ignition Initial Start Up Questions [message #367915 is a reply to message #367910]

Thu, 09 December 2021 18:21

jimk

Messages: 6734
Registered: July 2006
Location: Belmont, CA

Karma: 9

Senior Member

ck for ignition, then check for spray pulse at port,

On Thu, Dec 9, 2021 at 3:56 PM wrote:

> Jim,
>
> Check engine light stays illuminated through cranking. No fuel, no spark.
> I re-checked the harness. 12.0v going to computer while cranking. It appears
> that we have fuel pressure, so the gauge says.
>
> I am out of ideas and into the unknown. Maybe you are correct and I may
> have a bad computer? I don't know what else to check. I did move the timing
> to
> 10 degrees. I believe I should have gotten a spark even a 4 degrees. what
> do you think?
>
> Thanks,
> Tom
> --
> Tom & Oki Katzenberger,
> Kingsville, Maryland,
> 1977 23' Birchaven, 455 C.I.D.
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>

--
Jim Kanomata ASE
Applied/GMC, Newark,CA
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
http://www.gmcrvparts.com
1-800-752-7502
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Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502

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