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Re: Battery Cutoff switch [message #356602 is a reply to message #356474] Thu, 09 July 2020 19:40 Go to previous messageGo to next message
SpookyEng is currently offline  SpookyEng   United States
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tgeiger wrote on Mon, 06 July 2020 23:37
Since I’m getting back into all the battery and grounding issues on my coach was also wanting to install a battery cut off switch for my storage of it. Any suggestions on how and where. Seemed like I remember up by the isolator, just don’t recall which cable I interrupt there?

Thanks,
Tom
76 Eleganza 2
Kansas City, Mo
http://www.gmccoop.com/the-🏁-co-op-and-the-beat-goes-on/

Check this post, it has a good picture of cutoff switch mounting.


JD Lisenby- USAF Ret 1978 Royale-455 MacDash, Manny Tranny, FI-tech, 3.70 etc etc Navarre, FL
Re: Battery Cutoff switch [message #356612 is a reply to message #356474] Fri, 10 July 2020 04:53 Go to previous messageGo to next message
tgeiger is currently offline  tgeiger   United States
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Looks good. My arrangement of relay’s and solenoids looks a bit different but I can see how its put together. Like I’ve said before, not super whippy with electrical stuff. I do have a question on the placement of the cutoff switches. I like this arrangement from the aspect of shutting everything down from one spot, especially if there was a emergency. I’ve read some guys want to have these nearest to the battery, why would that be? My house battery is back by the generator.

Thanks,
TG


Tom Geiger 76 Eleganza II KCMO

[Updated on: Fri, 10 July 2020 04:55]

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Re: Battery Cutoff switch [message #356617 is a reply to message #356474] Fri, 10 July 2020 07:51 Go to previous messageGo to next message
jhbridges is currently offline  jhbridges   United States
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Given the number of heathen chinee parts showing up these days, I'd suggest having a look at your disconnect switch with a temp gun during or immediately after cranking. Any increased temp would be reason to suspect the integrity of the switch.

--johnny


Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons. Braselton, Ga. I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell
Re: Battery Cutoff switch [message #356620 is a reply to message #356474] Fri, 10 July 2020 11:10 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Russell K. is currently offline  Russell K.   United States
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Tom,

I like the idea of Ken H.'s electric battery cutoff switches with a small control panel like this one to also check battery voltage.

http://getrvparts.com/intellitec-01-00066-007-battery-disconnect-panel-dual-switch-with-voltmeter/

Russell


1978 Eleganza II, Dunedin, Florida
Re: [GMCnet] Battery Cutoff switch [message #356623 is a reply to message #356617] Fri, 10 July 2020 12:10 Go to previous messageGo to next message
k2gkk is currently offline  k2gkk   United States
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I don't believe you should EVER run the STARTER current through a cutoff
switch. I have never seen a switch capable of the currents (300+ Amps)
that is required by a starter.

Primary path to starter should be through a starter solenoid relay connected
directly to the positive terminal of the battery. The solenoid IS capable of
passing the hundreds of Amps that will be required for starting.

The current to the relay that actuates the starter solenoid SHOULD be supplied
via the cutoff switch.

I believe Jim Bounds has schematics of the best way to wire your starter system.

D C "Mac" Macdonald
Amateur Radio K2GKK
Since 30 November '53
USAF and FAA, Retired
Member GMCMI & Classics
Oklahoma City, OK
"The Money Pit"
TZE166V101966
'76 ex-Palm Beach
k2gkk + hotmail dot com
________________________________
From: Gmclist on behalf of Johnny Bridges via Gmclist
Sent: Friday, July 10, 2020 07:51
To: gmclist@list.gmcnet.org
Cc: Johnny Bridges
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Battery Cutoff switch

Given the number of heathen chinee parts showing up these days, I'd suggest having a look at your disconnect switch with a temp gun during or
immediately after cranking. Any increased temp would be reason to suspect the integrity of the switch.

--johnny
--
Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell

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Re: Battery Cutoff switch [message #356628 is a reply to message #356474] Fri, 10 July 2020 14:15 Go to previous messageGo to next message
jhbridges is currently offline  jhbridges   United States
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As I said earlier, different desires get different solutions. The daughter's car drops on the order of three millivolts across the knife switch. Likely a minor bit more for the 455 starter, In that it's not engaged for any great length of time, and in that it's inspected on the contacts regularly, I'll keep it on the negative battery terminal. Otherwise, the system isn't cold when the switch is open, there are/is energized wire. Worse'n that, the energized wire is heavy enough that the inadvertent screwdriver is likely to blow the battery up. None fer me, thanks when I propped the spray plane, "Make it COLD" got "Switch Off" and still pulled it through one handed so I could let go if there as something for the impulser to light. "Make it HOT" got "Contact" and I knew it was gonna run.

--johnny


Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons. Braselton, Ga. I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell
Re: Battery Cutoff switch [message #356633 is a reply to message #356617] Fri, 10 July 2020 15:31 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Ken Burton is currently offline  Ken Burton   United States
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My starter has run through a cutoff switch for 15 years. It is kind of hard to isolate the battery if you do not run everything through the switch.

Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
Re: [GMCnet] Battery Cutoff switch [message #356648 is a reply to message #356633] Fri, 10 July 2020 22:06 Go to previous messageGo to next message
stu@97381.com, Emery  is currently offline  stu@97381.com, Emery   United States
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My starter has run through a knife switch for over 20 years with no problem.

Emery Stora
77 Kingsley
Frederick, CO

> On Jul 10, 2020, at 2:31 PM, Ken Burton via Gmclist wrote:
>
> My starter has run through a cutoff switch for 15 years. It is kind of hard to isolate the battery if you do not run everything through the switch.
> --
> Ken Burton - N9KB
> 76 Palm Beach
> Hebron, Indiana
>
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Re: [GMCnet] Battery Cutoff switch [message #356649 is a reply to message #356475] Fri, 10 July 2020 22:21 Go to previous messageGo to next message
James Hupy is currently offline  James Hupy   United States
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That is the point of a disconnect. To remove all chance of accidental
connection with the + post of the battery (s). The positive side is the
correct side to interrupt. If it is open, there is no chance of accidental
shorting to ground (-).
Jim Hupy
Salem, Oregon

On Fri, Jul 10, 2020, 8:07 PM Emery Stora via Gmclist <
gmclist@list.gmcnet.org> wrote:

> My starter has run through a knife switch for over 20 years with no
> problem.
>
> Emery Stora
> 77 Kingsley
> Frederick, CO
>
>> On Jul 10, 2020, at 2:31 PM, Ken Burton via Gmclist gmclist@list.gmcnet.org> wrote:
>>
>> My starter has run through a cutoff switch for 15 years. It is kind of
> hard to isolate the battery if you do not run everything through the
> switch.
>> --
>> Ken Burton - N9KB
>> 76 Palm Beach
>> Hebron, Indiana
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> GMCnet mailing list
>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
>
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Re: Battery Cutoff switch [message #356650 is a reply to message #356612] Fri, 10 July 2020 22:39 Go to previous messageGo to next message
SpookyEng is currently offline  SpookyEng   United States
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tgeiger wrote on Fri, 10 July 2020 04:53
Looks good. My arrangement of relay’s and solenoids looks a bit different but I can see how its put together. Like I’ve said before, not super whippy with electrical stuff. I do have a question on the placement of the cutoff switches. I like this arrangement from the aspect of shutting everything down from one spot, especially if there was a emergency. I’ve read some guys want to have these nearest to the battery, why would that be? My house battery is back by the generator.

Thanks,
TG
I also have a cutout switch in the generator compartment for the house batteries. You want it nearest the battery so the most amount of wiring is after the switch.


JD Lisenby- USAF Ret 1978 Royale-455 MacDash, Manny Tranny, FI-tech, 3.70 etc etc Navarre, FL
Re: [GMCnet] Battery Cutoff switch [message #356655 is a reply to message #356623] Sat, 11 July 2020 07:36 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Matt Colie is currently offline  Matt Colie   United States
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k2gkk wrote on Fri, 10 July 2020 13:10
I don't believe you should EVER run the STARTER current through a cutoff switch. I have never seen a switch capable of the currents (300+ Amps) that is required by a starter.

Primary path to starter should be through a starter solenoid relay connected directly to the positive terminal of the battery. The solenoid IS capable of
passing the hundreds of Amps that will be required for starting.

The current to the relay that actuates the starter solenoid SHOULD be supplied via the cutoff switch.

I believe Jim Bounds has schematics of the best way to wire your starter system.

D C "Mac" Macdonald
Mac,

The actual fact is that all the battery disconnect switches available for small (<100 ton) boats are quite capable of passing several hundred amps for the duration of cranking (more and longer that a V-8) little marine diesel. That is not something I would worry about.

Yes, I did replace a few. All that I could, I open to diagnose the issue and in all but a very few cases the problem was that the cable connections were either never made up or got loose with age and thermal cycles.

Matt


Matt & Mary Colie - Chaumière -'73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan with OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Near DTW - Twixt A2 and Detroit
Re: [GMCnet] Battery Cutoff switch [message #356662 is a reply to message #356655] Sat, 11 July 2020 11:46 Go to previous messageGo to next message
tphipps is currently offline  tphipps   United States
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I use one of the battery mounted knife switches on my toad - Honda Fit. Keeps the battery from going flat while under tow. Only minor item - the radio code must be re-entered after reconnecting the switch, and the clock time reset.
My toad lights are driven by the RV's 12v system.
Tom


2012 Phoenix Cruiser model 2552 KA4CSG
Re: [GMCnet] Battery Cutoff switch [message #356665 is a reply to message #356662] Sat, 11 July 2020 13:27 Go to previous messageGo to next message
stu@97381.com, Emery  is currently offline  stu@97381.com, Emery   United States
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Tom
I solved that problem several years back by running a wire from my house battery through the light line that plugs into the motorhome and the toad.
I know that puts the toad battery in parallel while you are towing but that hasn’t been a problem.
When you unhook and pull the cable the toad is fully charged.


Emery Stora

> On Jul 11, 2020, at 10:46 AM, Thomas Phipps via Gmclist wrote:
>
> I use one of the battery mounted knife switches on my toad - Honda Fit. Keeps the battery from going flat while under tow. Only minor item - the radio
> code must be re-entered after reconnecting the switch, and the clock time reset.
> My toad lights are driven by the RV's 12v system.
> Tom
> --
> 2012 Phoenix Cruiser model 2552
> KA4CSG
>
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Re: [GMCnet] Battery Cutoff switch [message #356666 is a reply to message #356665] Sat, 11 July 2020 13:39 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Larry is currently offline  Larry   United States
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stu@97381.com, Emery wrote on Sat, 11 July 2020 13:27
Tom
I solved that problem several years back by running a wire from my house battery through the light line that plugs into the motorhome and the toad.
I know that puts the toad battery in parallel while you are towing but that hasn’t been a problem.
When you unhook and pull the cable the toad is fully charged.


Emery Stora
I was having problems with dead or near dead battery after a day of towing. Emery advised me to run a wire through the electric hookup for lights. Haven't had a problem since.


Larry Smile
78 Royale w/500 Caddy
Menomonie, WI.
Re: [GMCnet] Battery Cutoff switch [message #356681 is a reply to message #356623] Sat, 11 July 2020 20:50 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Rick Staples is currently offline  Rick Staples   United States
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Just FYI, that little cutoff switch Amazon is selling (and I just ordered) is rated for "275 Amps continuous, 455 Amps intermittent, and 1,250 Amps momentary". That should get it done, IMHO. OTOH, I'm still deciding how I'll wire up mine.

Rick Staples


Rick Staples, '75 Eleganza, Johnstown, CO "Advice is a dangerous gift, even from the Wise to the Wise, and all paths may run ill." -Tolkien
Re: [GMCnet] Battery Cutoff switch [message #356686 is a reply to message #356681] Sat, 11 July 2020 22:10 Go to previous messageGo to next message
k2gkk is currently offline  k2gkk   United States
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I had no idea. that those "little" switches had such capabilities!

Mac. in OKC, OK

Sent from my iPad

> On Jul 11, 2020, at 20:50, Richard H Staples via Gmclist wrote:
>
> Just FYI, that little cutoff switch Amazon is selling (and I just ordered) is rated for "275 Amps continuous, 455 Amps intermittent, and 1,250 Amps
> momentary". That should get it done, IMHO. OTOH, I'm still deciding how I'll wire up mine.
>
> Rick Staples
>
> --
> Rick Staples, '75 Eleganza, Johnstown, CO
>
> "Advice is a dangerous gift, even from the Wise to the Wise, and all paths may run ill." -Tolkien
>
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Re: Battery Cutoff switch [message #356693 is a reply to message #356474] Sun, 12 July 2020 07:21 Go to previous messageGo to next message
jhbridges is currently offline  jhbridges   United States
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Quick n dirty lights pon the toad - my Soul has huge tail light assemblies, so I drilled a hole and added a stop - turn - tail bulb to each. Tow electrics are completely separate.
As to battery cutoff switches, if the switch is post mounted, opening either one gives the same result. You'd have to short the post to get any current flow.

--johnny


Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons. Braselton, Ga. I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell
Re: Battery Cutoff switch [message #356731 is a reply to message #356602] Mon, 13 July 2020 15:10 Go to previous messageGo to next message
tgeiger is currently offline  tgeiger   United States
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Ok, so got the starting problem fixed. I believe it was a grounding issue. I went back thru and cleaned all the connection with either a brass wire brush or a brass wheel on my drill. Put it all back together with some lock washer with teeth. Seem to do the job, she cranked right up. This was out at my storage place so tomorrow I’ll bring it back over to the house and finish all the rest of the electrical clean up and items.

Thanks all for your help!
TG


Tom Geiger 76 Eleganza II KCMO
Re: Battery Cutoff switch [message #356732 is a reply to message #356731] Mon, 13 July 2020 15:42 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Ken Burton is currently offline  Ken Burton   United States
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When it comes to those heavy 12 volt cables sometimes you just have to shotgun it and clean all of them. Occasionally is it the starter or solenoid contacts inside but usually it is the cable connections.

I am happy you fixed it and do not have to worry about them for a few years now.


Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
Re: Battery Cutoff switch [message #356738 is a reply to message #356474] Mon, 13 July 2020 17:18 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
tgeiger is currently offline  tgeiger   United States
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I’m glad too. Thanks again for your help. Will finish out on the items you suggested when I get it over here at the house.

Thanks,
TG


Tom Geiger 76 Eleganza II KCMO
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