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403 timing tab [message #329129] Wed, 14 February 2018 08:56 Go to next message
midlf is currently offline  midlf   United States
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Timing tab, part used to determine timing degrees at the balancer.

Is the timing tab on a MH 403 the same as one on any other Olds 403?

Is the timing tab on a MH 403 the same as one on a 455?


Steve Southworth
1974 Glacier TZE064V100150 (for workin on)
1975 Transmode TZE365V100394 (parts & spares)
Palmyra WI
Re: [GMCnet] 403 timing tab [message #329134 is a reply to message #329129] Wed, 14 February 2018 09:50 Go to previous messageGo to next message
James Hupy is currently offline  James Hupy   United States
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Hi Steve,
Timing tab on a 403 is located in the same way and place as the 455. The
455 is metal, the 403 is plastic and has the provision for a magnetic
sensor style timing light like the factory scope machines use. Sawtooth
marks are similar to the 455. Other than that, Mrs Lincoln, how did you
enjoy the play? (Grin)
Jim Hupy
Salem, Or
78 GMC ROYALE 403

On Feb 14, 2018 7:07 AM, "Steve Southworth" wrote:

> Timing tab, part used to determine timing degrees at the balancer.
>
> Is the timing tab on a MH 403 the same as one on any other Olds 403?
>
> Is the timing tab on a MH 403 the same as one on a 455?
> --
> Steve Southworth
> 1974 Glacier TZE064V100150 (for workin on)
> 1975 Transmode TZE365V100394 (parts & spares)
> Palmyra WI
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
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>
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Re: [GMCnet] 403 timing tab [message #329139 is a reply to message #329134] Wed, 14 February 2018 11:08 Go to previous messageGo to next message
midlf is currently offline  midlf   United States
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Oh dear oh dear whatever can I do. My 455 has a plastic timing tab. <grin>

Thanhs for the info.


Steve Southworth
1974 Glacier TZE064V100150 (for workin on)
1975 Transmode TZE365V100394 (parts & spares)
Palmyra WI
Re: [GMCnet] 403 timing tab [message #329141 is a reply to message #329134] Wed, 14 February 2018 11:27 Go to previous messageGo to next message
James Hupy is currently offline  James Hupy   United States
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Same old, same old. Sawtooth marks are the same, but, 455 static timing is
8° dtdc, 403 is 10°.
Jim Hupy

On Feb 14, 2018 9:08 AM, "Steve Southworth" wrote:

Oh dear oh dear whatever can I do. My 455 has a plastic timing tab.

Thanhs for the info.
--
Steve Southworth
1974 Glacier TZE064V100150 (for workin on)
1975 Transmode TZE365V100394 (parts & spares)
Palmyra WI

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Re: [GMCnet] 403 timing tab [message #329144 is a reply to message #329139] Wed, 14 February 2018 14:02 Go to previous messageGo to next message
wally is currently offline  wally   United States
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Location: Omaha Nebraska
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midlf wrote on Wed, 14 February 2018 11:08
Oh dear oh dear whatever can I do. My 455 has a plastic timing tab. <grin>

Thanhs for the info.

Steve come on over to one of the Facebook GMC groups like Classic GMC Motorhomes. You can get questions answered on topic without insult. Way more activity on FB for a variety of reasons.


Wally Anderson
Omaha NE
75 Glenbrook
Megasquirt III injection
Bob Stone hydroBOOOOST
Manny reaction arm system
Branscombe Kelsey Hayes park brake
Our GMC Blog
Re: [GMCnet] 403 timing tab [message #329145 is a reply to message #329144] Wed, 14 February 2018 14:07 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Matt Colie is currently offline  Matt Colie   United States
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wally wrote on Wed, 14 February 2018 15:02
midlf wrote on Wed, 14 February 2018 11:08
Oh dear oh dear whatever can I do. My 455 has a plastic timing tab. <grin>

Thanhs for the info.

Steve come on over to one of the Facebook GMC groups like Classic GMC Motorhomes. You can get questions answered on topic without insult. Way more activity on FB for a variety of reasons.

But beware, I gave up answering real questions there because I was shouted down for telling the truth about some bad answers. Now I only post there for silly things and meeting announcements.


Matt & Mary Colie - '73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan
OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Twixt A2 and Detroit
Re: [GMCnet] 403 timing tab [message #329146 is a reply to message #329139] Wed, 14 February 2018 14:14 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Matt Colie is currently offline  Matt Colie   United States
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Location: S.E. Michigan
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Senior Member
midlf wrote on Wed, 14 February 2018 12:08
Oh dear oh dear whatever can I do. My 455 has a plastic timing tab. <grin>

Thanhs for the info.


Steve,

That Actually means that yours probably has the "gunsight" and can use a timing box that sometimes show up on E-bay.
If you want a metal one (not common to HEI) I probably have one in the pile of broken apart 455 in the barn.

Matt


Matt & Mary Colie - '73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan
OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Twixt A2 and Detroit
Re: [GMCnet] 403 timing tab [message #329147 is a reply to message #329146] Wed, 14 February 2018 15:32 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Carl S. is currently offline  Carl S.   United States
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Hmmm...My 455 has a plastic one as well. Pretty sure it came that way, but who knows???

Carl Stouffer '75 ex Palm Beach Tucson, AZ. Chuck Aulgur Reaction Arm Disc Brakes, Quadrabags, 3.70 LSD final drive, Lenzi knuckles/hubs, Dodge Truck 16" X 8" front wheels, Rear American Eagles, Solar battery charging. GMCSJ and GMCMI member
Re: [GMCnet] 403 timing tab [message #329148 is a reply to message #329134] Wed, 14 February 2018 15:48 Go to previous messageGo to next message
James Hupy is currently offline  James Hupy   United States
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Registered: May 2010
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Senior Member
It is possible that the plastic crank pointer was introduced along with the
HEI ignition mid year 1975. I have seen a couple of 455 engines that had
the plastic ones. I will have to dig out my General Motors Training School
literature that I got when I went to training, and see what the upgrades
consisted of. I know the Olds small blocks came with the plastic pieces,
but, I am unsure of the EXACT DATES they were introduced. As motor homes
were kind of an "Orphan Vehicle", it is possible that GMC received some
pieces that Olds did not use in their production cars, but I do not know
that for the gospel truth. Treat this information accordingly.
Jim Hupy
Salem, Or
78 GMC ROYALE 403

On Feb 14, 2018 1:33 PM, "Carl Stouffer" wrote:

Hmmm...My 455 has a plastic one as well. Pretty sure it came that way, but
who knows???
--
Carl Stouffer
'75 ex Palm Beach
Tucson, AZ.
Chuck Aulgur Reaction Arm Disc Brakes, Quadrabags, 3.70 LSD final drive,
Lenzi knuckles/hubs, Dodge Truck 16" X 8" front wheels, Rear American
Eagles,
Solar battery charging. GMCSJ and GMCMI member

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Re: [GMCnet] 403 timing tab [message #329149 is a reply to message #329148] Wed, 14 February 2018 16:17 Go to previous messageGo to next message
USAussie is currently offline  USAussie   United States
Messages: 15587
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
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Senior Member
G'day,

Ref: Parts Book 78Z / Section 8 / Page 8-4 / Figure 8.005 - Cylinder Block, Crankshaft and Oil Pan

Key 33 - P/N 403902 - Indicator - timing (1973)
Key 33 - P/N 419048 - Indicator - timing (eff. w/ 1974) (repl. 417140)

Regards,
Rob M.
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
USA '77 Kingsley - TZE 267V100808



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Regards, Rob M. (USAussie) The Pedantic Mechanic Sydney, Australia '75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428 '75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
Re: [GMCnet] 403 timing tab [message #329151 is a reply to message #329139] Wed, 14 February 2018 19:18 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Ken Henderson is currently offline  Ken Henderson   United States
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Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA
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Senior Member
Steve,

IIRC, each of the several 455's I've had came with the dual purpose plastic
timing pointers too.

Ken H.


On Wed, Feb 14, 2018 at 12:08 PM, Steve Southworth
wrote:

> Oh dear oh dear whatever can I do. My 455 has a plastic timing tab.
>
>
> Thanhs for the info.
> --
> Steve Southworth
> 1974 Glacier TZE064V100150 (for workin on)
> 1975 Transmode TZE365V100394 (parts & spares)
> Palmyra WI
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
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Ken Henderson
Americus, GA
www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
Re: [GMCnet] 403 timing tab [message #329155 is a reply to message #329144] Wed, 14 February 2018 22:09 Go to previous messageGo to next message
midlf is currently offline  midlf   United States
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Registered: July 2007
Location: SE Wisc. (Palmyra)
Karma: 2
Senior Member
wally wrote on Wed, 14 February 2018 14:02
midlf wrote on Wed, 14 February 2018 11:08
Oh dear oh dear whatever can I do. My 455 has a plastic timing tab. <grin>

Thanhs for the info.

Steve come on over to one of the Facebook GMC groups like Classic GMC Motorhomes. You can get questions answered on topic without insult. Way more activity on FB for a variety of reasons.




????????????????
What looked like an insult? I saw nothing that looked that way.


Steve Southworth
1974 Glacier TZE064V100150 (for workin on)
1975 Transmode TZE365V100394 (parts & spares)
Palmyra WI
Re: [GMCnet] 403 timing tab [message #329165 is a reply to message #329155] Thu, 15 February 2018 08:54 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Keith V is currently offline  Keith V   United States
Messages: 1963
Registered: March 2008
Location: Mounds View,MN
Karma: 5
Senior Member
My 75 transmode had a plastic timing tab. It's been upgraded not through :)
________________________________
From: Gmclist on behalf of Steve Southworth
Sent: Wednesday, February 14, 2018 10:09 PM
To: gmclist-AT-list-DOT-gmcnet-DOT-org
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] 403 timing tab

wally wrote on Wed, 14 February 2018 14:02
> midlf wrote on Wed, 14 February 2018 11:08
>> Oh dear oh dear whatever can I do. My 455 has a plastic timing tab.
>>
>> Thanhs for the info.
>
> Steve come on over to one of the Facebook GMC groups like Classic GMC Motorhomes. You can get questions answered on topic without insult. Way more
> activity on FB for a variety of reasons.




????????????????
What looked like an insult? I saw nothing that looked that way.
--
Steve Southworth
1974 Glacier TZE064V100150 (for workin on)
1975 Transmode TZE365V100394 (parts & spares)
Palmyra WI

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Keith Vasilakes
Mounds View. MN
75 ex Royale GMC
69 Vette
29 Dodge
Re: [GMCnet] 403 timing tab [message #329171 is a reply to message #329148] Thu, 15 February 2018 11:14 Go to previous messageGo to next message
NextGenGMC is currently offline  NextGenGMC   United States
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Registered: December 2017
Location: Washington State
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Junior Member
There might be something to this. My '76 MH with a 455 and HEI has a plastic timing tab.

James Hupy wrote on Wed, 14 February 2018 13:48
It is possible that the plastic crank pointer was introduced along with the
HEI ignition mid year 1975. I have seen a couple of 455 engines that had
the plastic ones. I will have to dig out my General Motors Training School
literature that I got when I went to training, and see what the upgrades
consisted of. I know the Olds small blocks came with the plastic pieces,
but, I am unsure of the EXACT DATES they were introduced. As motor homes
were kind of an "Orphan Vehicle", it is possible that GMC received some
pieces that Olds did not use in their production cars, but I do not know
that for the gospel truth. Treat this information accordingly.
Jim Hupy
Salem, Or
78 GMC ROYALE 403

On Feb 14, 2018 1:33 PM, "Carl Stouffer" wrote:

Hmmm...My 455 has a plastic one as well. Pretty sure it came that way, but
who knows???
--
Carl Stouffer
'75 ex Palm Beach
Tucson, AZ.
Chuck Aulgur Reaction Arm Disc Brakes, Quadrabags, 3.70 LSD final drive,
Lenzi knuckles/hubs, Dodge Truck 16" X 8" front wheels, Rear American
Eagles,
Solar battery charging. GMCSJ and GMCMI member

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Vadim Jitkov '76 Glenbrook 26' Pullman, WA
Re: [GMCnet] 403 timing tab [message #329178 is a reply to message #329148] Thu, 15 February 2018 16:39 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kosier is currently offline  Kosier   United States
Messages: 781
Registered: February 2008
Karma: 1
Senior Member
Jim,

According to the Oldsmobile parts book, the pointer is listed as 68-73 all
the
same and 74-78 all the same as far as the 455 and 403. Now with GM, there
is always the possibility that the had an earlier part number and superseded
it without leaving any evidence.

Gary Kosier the old parts man
77PB w/500Cad
Newark, Ohio

--------------------------------------------------
From: "James Hupy"
Sent: Wednesday, February 14, 2018 4:48 PM
To:
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] 403 timing tab

> It is possible that the plastic crank pointer was introduced along with
> the
> HEI ignition mid year 1975. I have seen a couple of 455 engines that had
> the plastic ones. I will have to dig out my General Motors Training School
> literature that I got when I went to training, and see what the upgrades
> consisted of. I know the Olds small blocks came with the plastic pieces,
> but, I am unsure of the EXACT DATES they were introduced. As motor homes
> were kind of an "Orphan Vehicle", it is possible that GMC received some
> pieces that Olds did not use in their production cars, but I do not know
> that for the gospel truth. Treat this information accordingly.
> Jim Hupy
> Salem, Or
> 78 GMC ROYALE 403
>
> On Feb 14, 2018 1:33 PM, "Carl Stouffer" wrote:
>
> Hmmm...My 455 has a plastic one as well. Pretty sure it came that way,
> but
> who knows???
> --
> Carl Stouffer
> '75 ex Palm Beach
> Tucson, AZ.
> Chuck Aulgur Reaction Arm Disc Brakes, Quadrabags, 3.70 LSD final drive,
> Lenzi knuckles/hubs, Dodge Truck 16" X 8" front wheels, Rear American
> Eagles,
> Solar battery charging. GMCSJ and GMCMI member
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org


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Re: [GMCnet] 403 timing tab [message #329180 is a reply to message #329178] Thu, 15 February 2018 17:41 Go to previous messageGo to next message
USAussie is currently offline  USAussie   United States
Messages: 15587
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 42
Senior Member
Gary,

That lines up the

Ref: Parts Book 78Z / Section 8 / Page 8-4 / Figure 8.005 - Cylinder Block, Crankshaft and Oil Pan

Key 33 - P/N 403902 - Indicator - timing (1973)
Key 33 - P/N 419048 - Indicator - timing (eff. w/ 1974) (repl. 417140)

Regards,
Rob M.
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
USA '77 Kingsley - TZE 267V100808


-----Original Message-----
From: Gmclist [mailto:gmclist-bounces-AT-list-DOT-gmcnet-DOT-org] On Behalf Of Gary Kosier
Sent: Friday, February 16, 2018 9:39 AM
To: gmclist-AT-list-DOT-gmcnet-DOT-org
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] 403 timing tab

Jim,

According to the Oldsmobile parts book, the pointer is listed as 68-73 all the
same and 74-78 all the same as far as the 455 and 403. Now with GM, there
is always the possibility that the had an earlier part number and superseded
it without leaving any evidence.

Gary Kosier the old parts man
77PB w/500Cad
Newark, Ohio


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Regards, Rob M. (USAussie) The Pedantic Mechanic Sydney, Australia '75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428 '75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
Re: [GMCnet] 403 timing tab [message #329182 is a reply to message #329180] Thu, 15 February 2018 18:23 Go to previous message
James Hupy is currently offline  James Hupy   United States
Messages: 4680
Registered: May 2010
Karma: 34
Senior Member
Well I looked in my training manual and Service bulletins on ignition
timing, and no joy to be found on dates. So, best answers I have are based
on personal experience, not on any official word from the manufacturer.
Sometime in the mid 70's, GM introduced HEI ignition on SOME brands and
models. It was not a Corporate wide roll out. Premium brands and models got
it first.
About the same time they rolled out CCC. Computer Command Control.
They were not forthcoming with service techniques AT ALL until the
Independent Garage Owners Association, and Motor's, Chiltons, and other
publishers of aftermarket spec manuals threatened lawsuits over it. Scope
manufacturers like Snap On, Allen Smartscope, Kent Moore, and others joined
into the fray, and GM claimed Copyright infringement, proprietary trade
secret rights, and a bunch of delay tactics. It wasn't until the D.O.T.
reared it's ugly head that some relaxing of tightly held specs came about.
As an Independent Machine Shop owner/partner, I had daily contact in
this fray. All the big 3 auto companies had their own version of this
story.
Along came OBD 1. On board diagnostics, version 1. Then, OBD 2, then
CAN, and on and on. The foreign manufactured cars had their own stuff, then
were forced to comply with OBD 2.
In 1977, I went to work for Department of Corrections as a Vocational
Technical Instructor. Dept of Education required certification, so, back to
School I went every summer until I retired. GM had a training site in
Tigard, Or and I attended that until they closed the center and went to
online training. Many other service schools, too many to note here. None of
the literature I still have, has dates when the magnetic probe timing setup
first arrived. So, best guess is as Rob says, when they changed the part
number should be as close as anything I have.
Jim Hupy

On Feb 15, 2018 3:42 PM, "Rob Mueller" wrote:

> Gary,
>
> That lines up the
>
> Ref: Parts Book 78Z / Section 8 / Page 8-4 / Figure 8.005 - Cylinder
> Block, Crankshaft and Oil Pan
>
> Key 33 - P/N 403902 - Indicator - timing (1973)
> Key 33 - P/N 419048 - Indicator - timing (eff. w/ 1974) (repl. 417140)
>
> Regards,
> Rob M.
> The Pedantic Mechanic
> Sydney, Australia
> AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
> USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
> USA '77 Kingsley - TZE 267V100808
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Gmclist [mailto:gmclist-bounces-AT-list-DOT-gmcnet-DOT-org] On Behalf Of Gary
> Kosier
> Sent: Friday, February 16, 2018 9:39 AM
> To: gmclist-AT-list-DOT-gmcnet-DOT-org
> Subject: Re: [GMCnet] 403 timing tab
>
> Jim,
>
> According to the Oldsmobile parts book, the pointer is listed as 68-73 all
> the
> same and 74-78 all the same as far as the 455 and 403. Now with GM, there
> is always the possibility that the had an earlier part number and
> superseded
> it without leaving any evidence.
>
> Gary Kosier the old parts man
> 77PB w/500Cad
> Newark, Ohio
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
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