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Re: Inverter generator? [message #329119 is a reply to message #329111] Tue, 13 February 2018 21:49 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Deb is currently offline  Deb   Canada
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Location: Logan Lake, BC
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lqqkatjon wrote on Tue, 13 February 2018 14:00
Onan's can be fixed. It is just a matter of digging in and working the issues 1x1.

But please be very careful with an onan dealer. I personally would never take a 1978 ford f-250 to a ford dealer, for many of the same reasons I would never take my onan in my gmc to a cummins dealer.

The onan is a simple engine that just needs an old school mechanic type person to dig in and follow the readily available troubleshooting guides available on the gmc sites.

Gary bovee's ignition kit. And it is pretty easy to get an onan running well.

Hi Jon - like I said to Matt - the two local shops don't seem to want to look at an Onan d/t some apparent problem getting parts if they need them - I guess maybe they won't sell to them. I should put them in touch with Jim K! So maybe I will just grab my neighbour again and see if we can do some more tracking. He IS an old small engine guy - actually worked with some bigger Onan's up in the bush logging many years ago - recognized this one as soon as he saw it. I think with some work (and time) we can get her going.

But I do like the sound of that ignition upgrade!


Deb McWade Logan Lake, BC, CAN "Li'l Sister" '77 Kingsley, 403, EBL EFI; TZE167V101404 It's Bigger on the Inside!
Re: [GMCnet] Inverter generator? [message #329123 is a reply to message #329103] Wed, 14 February 2018 06:15 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Jim Miller is currently offline  Jim Miller   United States
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On Feb 13, 2018, at 12:21 PM, Deb McWade wrote:

> Have checked the board and it checks out (jumped the appropriate pins) per Jim K. It cranks but doesn't catch. Used to spark, and catch but wouldn't run more than 2 seconds.


Hi Deb, what you are describing is a classic symptom with just a few possible causes.

1. Low oil in crankcase causing low oil pressure condition. I believe you’ve already checked the oil level.
2. Low Oil Pressure Switch problem as others have pointed out.
3. Control board problem (likely)
4. Flywheel alternator problem (very UNlikely)

You didn’t mention which pins you jumpered so it is difficult to advise further.

Under normal circumstances the control board watches for the engine to achieve a certain speed in a certain amount of time after cranking starts - once it sees that condition it de-energizes the starter and “latches on” the fuel pump and ignition system which thus allows the engine to continue running indefinitely. The “certain speed” portion mentioned earlier cannot be reached on the starter alone - the engine has to successfully start before it can be achieved. You’ve already said that it will run for a couple of seconds and then quit - therefore your ignition and fuel delivery is working.

If there’s a problem with either the oil pressure system or the control board then this “latched on” condition does not occur and the engine stops after a couple seconds just as you described.

Once you are able to work on your coach again please follow the troubleshooting steps available on the GMCnet archives. The _very first_ one you should try is the “jumper 5 to 9” (or the equivalent: jumper battery+ to coil+) and then attempt a start. If it runs correctly then you can immediately start working on finding out which problem 1-4 above is the cause.

I completely concur with everyone who advised against taking it to a Cummins shop - you DON’T want to do that. You need the old-school engine shop who serviced this type of engine in the 70’s and 80’s and JimK can provide all the parts your shop would need. A good test for your candidate shop would be to ask the oldest mechanic if he has worked on breaker-point ignitions - if he says “no" then leave immediately.


Jim Miller
1977 Eleganza
1977 Royale
Hamilton, OH




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Re: Inverter generator? [message #329124 is a reply to message #329119] Wed, 14 February 2018 07:32 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Matt Colie is currently offline  Matt Colie   United States
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[quote title=Deb wrote on Tue, 13 February 2018 22:49Hi Jon - like I said to Matt - the two local shops don't seem to want to look at an Onan d/t some apparent problem getting parts if they need them - I guess maybe they won't sell to them. I should put them in touch with Jim K! So maybe I will just grab my neighbour again and see if we can do some more tracking. He IS an old small engine guy - actually worked with some bigger Onan's up in the bush logging many years ago - recognized this one as soon as he saw it. I think with some work (and time) we can get her going.

But I do like the sound of that ignition upgrade![/quote]
Deb,

I don't know if you found this:
http://www.gmcws.org/Tech/dsimmons/onan/onan.html
Duane was well versed in the Onan operation and are very fortunate that he wrote everything down.
There is also a trouble shooting page on the downloadable Onan manuals on the GMC site.

Personal Question - Where in Southern Ontario? <You do not have to answer if you do not care to.>

Matt


Matt & Mary Colie - '73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan
OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Twixt A2 and Detroit
Re: [GMCnet] Inverter generator? [message #329131 is a reply to message #329123] Wed, 14 February 2018 09:04 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Deb is currently offline  Deb   Canada
Messages: 86
Registered: October 2016
Location: Logan Lake, BC
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Jim Miller wrote on Wed, 14 February 2018 04:15
On Feb 13, 2018, at 12:21 PM, Deb McWade wrote:

> Have checked the board and it checks out (jumped the appropriate pins) per Jim K. It cranks but doesn't catch. Used to spark, and catch but wouldn't run more than 2 seconds.


Hi Deb, what you are describing is a classic symptom with just a few possible causes.

1. Low oil in crankcase causing low oil pressure condition. I believe you've already checked the oil level.
2. Low Oil Pressure Switch problem as others have pointed out.
3. Control board problem (likely)
4. Flywheel alternator problem (very UNlikely)

You didn't mention which pins you jumpered so it is difficult to advise further.

Under normal circumstances the control board watches for the engine to achieve a certain speed in a certain amount of time after cranking starts - once it sees that condition it de-energizes the starter and "latches on" the fuel pump and ignition system which thus allows the engine to continue running indefinitely. The "certain speed" portion mentioned earlier cannot be reached on the starter alone - the engine has to successfully start before it can be achieved. You've already said that it will run for a couple of seconds and then quit - therefore your ignition and fuel delivery is working.

If there's a problem with either the oil pressure system or the control board then this "latched on" condition does not occur and the engine stops after a couple seconds just as you described.

Once you are able to work on your coach again please follow the troubleshooting steps available on the GMCnet archives. The _very first_ one you should try is the "jumper 5 to 9" (or the equivalent: jumper battery+ to coil+) and then attempt a start. If it runs correctly then you can immediately start working on finding out which problem 1-4 above is the cause.

I completely concur with everyone who advised against taking it to a Cummins shop - you DON'T want to do that. You need the old-school engine shop who serviced this type of engine in the 70's and 80's and JimK can provide all the parts your shop would need. A good test for your candidate shop would be to ask the oldest mechanic if he has worked on breaker-point ignitions - if he says "no" then leave immediately.


Jim Miller
1977 Eleganza
1977 Royale
Hamilton, OH




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Thx Jim. Top of my head I can't remember which pins I bypassed. I will have to start from scratch - long time ago in a galaxy far, far away! The beginning is always a good place to start anyway, even if I've been there before (I THINK I've been there!).
I have Gary Bovee's page and system information too, if i do get it running. And I believe Duanne Simmons stuff is already printed and in the 6 binders I got from the PO Shocked (I think it was his material - the step by step troubleshooting - didn't get all the way through by the time the smoke got too thick to want to be outside)

But I will have more time this time around. Can start working on it in April when the snow clears (or starts to anyway)


Deb McWade Logan Lake, BC, CAN "Li'l Sister" '77 Kingsley, 403, EBL EFI; TZE167V101404 It's Bigger on the Inside!
Re: Inverter generator? [message #329132 is a reply to message #329124] Wed, 14 February 2018 09:13 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Deb is currently offline  Deb   Canada
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Registered: October 2016
Location: Logan Lake, BC
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[quote title=Matt Colie wrote on Wed, 14 February 2018 05:32]Deb wrote on Tue, 13 February 2018 22:49Hi Jon - like I said to Matt - the two local shops don't seem to want to look at an Onan d/t some apparent problem getting parts if they need them - I guess maybe they won't sell to them. I should put them in touch with Jim K! So maybe I will just grab my neighbour again and see if we can do some more tracking. He IS an old small engine guy - actually worked with some bigger Onan's up in the bush logging many years ago - recognized this one as soon as he saw it. I think with some work (and time) we can get her going.

But I do like the sound of that ignition upgrade![/quote

Deb,

I don't know if you found this:
http://www.gmcws.org/Tech/dsimmons/onan/onan.html
Duane was well versed in the Onan operation and are very fortunate that he wrote everything down.
There is also a trouble shooting page on the downloadable Onan manuals on the GMC site.

Personal Question - Where in Southern Ontario? <You do not have to answer if you do not care to.>

Matt

Hi Matt. I think I have Duanne's material and was working my way through it. I'll check the link. Didn't get all the way through tho'. Didn't have everything I needed to keep testing and the wildfire smoke started making outside work downright impossible.

FYI, I am from the Kitchener/Guelph region of S ON. And one brother just retired out to Brighton. Splitting the distance between his kids in Ottawa and Guelph. So I will be looking for a good campground somewhere in the vicinity (with service if I can't get the beast operational by then!) That is if I'm not parked in a brother's driveway - I have 4 to choose from)


Deb McWade Logan Lake, BC, CAN "Li'l Sister" '77 Kingsley, 403, EBL EFI; TZE167V101404 It's Bigger on the Inside!
Re: Inverter generator? [message #329136 is a reply to message #329080] Wed, 14 February 2018 10:06 Go to previous messageGo to next message
JohnL455 is currently offline  JohnL455   United States
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Forgot to mention the one simplest oops that has gotten me, I think Matt and others as well. The refrigerator door syndrome. Unit runs fine pulled out then after you put it back in it starts to falter and die. The tygon fuel line between the tray and pump can partially kink when you push it back on the slides. There was from the factory a screen door type spring to dress the hose but those have rotted away. It is about $2-3 for that section of hose at a mower shop.

John Lebetski
Woodstock, IL
77 Eleganza II
Re: Inverter generator? [message #329152 is a reply to message #329136] Wed, 14 February 2018 20:36 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Deb is currently offline  Deb   Canada
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Registered: October 2016
Location: Logan Lake, BC
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JohnL455 wrote on Wed, 14 February 2018 08:06
Forgot to mention the one simplest oops that has gotten me, I think Matt and others as well. The refrigerator door syndrome. Unit runs fine pulled out then after you put it back in it starts to falter and die. The tygon fuel line between the tray and pump can partially kink when you push it back on the slides. There was from the factory a screen door type spring to dress the hose but those have rotted away. It is about $2-3 for that section of hose at a mower shop.


I will keep that in mind! On my list of "Why isn't THIS working??"


Deb McWade Logan Lake, BC, CAN "Li'l Sister" '77 Kingsley, 403, EBL EFI; TZE167V101404 It's Bigger on the Inside!
Re: Inverter generator? [message #329159 is a reply to message #329124] Wed, 14 February 2018 23:35 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Ken Burton is currently offline  Ken Burton   United States
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If you decide to come on the southern route (south of Lake Michigan) (I-80, I-90, or I-94) like all of the other Canadians, give a me a call and stop by. I'll look at it and probably fix it. I had a GMC Onan here last Summer for 6 days. It had multiple things wrong with some of them PO caused wiring errors. If I can not fox it we will send you onto Matt in Michigan.

You can not believe the number of Sask, Alberta, Manitoba, Ontario, and Quebec license plates that go through here. Occasionally I see a BC plate. The route is faster and fuel is much cheaper. Just get in line with the thousands of Canadian cars and semis and follow the crowd.


Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
Re: Inverter generator? [message #329169 is a reply to message #329159] Thu, 15 February 2018 10:27 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Don A is currently offline  Don A   United States
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Best suggestion yet Ken. Thanks for stepping up like you do so often.


Ken Burton wrote on Wed, 14 February 2018 23:35
If you decide to come on the southern route (south of Lake Michigan) (I-80, I-90, or I-94) like all of the other Canadians, give a me a call and stop by. I'll look at it and probably fix it. I had a GMC Onan here last Summer for 6 days. It had multiple things wrong with some of them PO caused wiring errors. If I can not fox it we will send you onto Matt in Michigan.

You can not believe the number of Sask, Alberta, Manitoba, Ontario, and Quebec license plates that go through here. Occasionally I see a BC plate. The route is faster and fuel is much cheaper. Just get in line with the thousands of Canadian cars and semis and follow the crowd.



Don Adams Dallas, TX
'76 26' Glenbrook, '90 Sidekick
rebuilt by R Archer, powered by J Bounds, Koba
[IMG]http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/data/6109/G2.jpg[/IMG]
Re: Inverter generator? [message #329176 is a reply to message #329159] Thu, 15 February 2018 13:52 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Deb is currently offline  Deb   Canada
Messages: 86
Registered: October 2016
Location: Logan Lake, BC
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Ken Burton wrote on Wed, 14 February 2018 21:35
If you decide to come on the southern route (south of Lake Michigan) (I-80, I-90, or I-94) like all of the other Canadians, give a me a call and stop by. I'll look at it and probably fix it. I had a GMC Onan here last Summer for 6 days. It had multiple things wrong with some of them PO caused wiring errors. If I can not fox it we will send you onto Matt in Michigan.

You can not believe the number of Sask, Alberta, Manitoba, Ontario, and Quebec license plates that go through here. Occasionally I see a BC plate. The route is faster and fuel is much cheaper. Just get in line with the thousands of Canadian cars and semis and follow the crowd.


Thanks a bunch Ken! That was sort of my planned route - when I moved here many years back I came through Flint then north, crossed at the Mackinac and then up into Manitoba. You're right - cheaper and a lot easier than the lake head route! Plus I can avoid the Metro Toronto area!! One of my LEAST favourite places in the world to drive. Might have to take a look at trying south of the lake this time across. First time I wanted to avoid major centres since I was dragging a 15' trailer for the first time with an old Dodge Caravan (which I succeeded in killing by the time I got to BC!). By the time I get that far, if I'm not comfortable driving the GMC, I'd best just turn around and head home!!

But even if I have her running, I may just give you a shout anyway for coffee and conversation.


Deb McWade Logan Lake, BC, CAN "Li'l Sister" '77 Kingsley, 403, EBL EFI; TZE167V101404 It's Bigger on the Inside!
Re: Inverter generator? [message #329177 is a reply to message #329176] Thu, 15 February 2018 16:41 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Matt Colie is currently offline  Matt Colie   United States
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Deb wrote on Thu, 15 February 2018 14:52
Thanks a bunch Ken! That was sort of my planned route - when I moved here many years back I came through Flint then north, crossed at the Mackinac and then up into Manitoba. You're right - cheaper and a lot easier than the lake head route! Plus I can avoid the Metro Toronto area!! One of my LEAST favourite places in the world to drive. Might have to take a look at trying south of the lake this time across. First time I wanted to avoid major centres since I was dragging a 15' trailer for the first time with an old Dodge Caravan (which I succeeded in killing by the time I got to BC!).

1 - By the time I get that far, if I'm not comfortable driving the GMC, I'd best just turn around and head home!!

2 - But even if I have her running, I may just give you a shout anyway for coffee and conversation.

Deb,

1 - I have it on good authority (Mary) that driving a properly set up GMC is not very different that your Dodge Caravan. (Ours was an 87 with manual trans.)

2 - This is a really good idea. Do you currently have any idea when this might be (to the nearest week), so we can be looking out for your arrival?

Remember, I warned you about these group (look up 24 November 2016).
If your timing is right, we may just direct you to a rally or two along the way.

Matt


Matt & Mary Colie - '73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan
OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Twixt A2 and Detroit
Re: Inverter generator? [message #329185 is a reply to message #329177] Thu, 15 February 2018 19:34 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Deb is currently offline  Deb   Canada
Messages: 86
Registered: October 2016
Location: Logan Lake, BC
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Matt Colie wrote on Thu, 15 February 2018 14:41
Deb wrote on Thu, 15 February 2018 14:52
Thanks a bunch Ken! That was sort of my planned route - when I moved here many years back I came through Flint then north, crossed at the Mackinac and then up into Manitoba. You're right - cheaper and a lot easier than the lake head route! Plus I can avoid the Metro Toronto area!! One of my LEAST favourite places in the world to drive. Might have to take a look at trying south of the lake this time across. First time I wanted to avoid major centres since I was dragging a 15' trailer for the first time with an old Dodge Caravan (which I succeeded in killing by the time I got to BC!).

1 - By the time I get that far, if I'm not comfortable driving the GMC, I'd best just turn around and head home!!

2 - But even if I have her running, I may just give you a shout anyway for coffee and conversation.

Deb,

1 - I have it on good authority (Mary) that driving a properly set up GMC is not very different that your Dodge Caravan. (Ours was an 87 with manual trans.)

2 - This is a really good idea. Do you currently have any idea when this might be (to the nearest week), so we can be looking out for your arrival?

Remember, I warned you about these group (look up 24 November 2016).
If your timing is right, we may just direct you to a rally or two along the way.

Matt


Hope to leave BC sometime in the second week of June so likely hit MI somewhere around the 15th? My last batch of students have their grad on the 8th, my nephew is getting married in Toronto on the 30th. So I would like to get to my brothers' (one of them) sometime around the 20th (ish) thereabouts. Would early love to meet up along the way. I will be heading back this way about 3rd week of July for the last month before real retirement begins!!! This trip east is the trial run Smile

And yes - you DID warn me - I recall. Twisted Evil


Deb McWade Logan Lake, BC, CAN "Li'l Sister" '77 Kingsley, 403, EBL EFI; TZE167V101404 It's Bigger on the Inside!
Re: Inverter generator? [message #329197 is a reply to message #329185] Thu, 15 February 2018 23:50 Go to previous message
Ken Burton is currently offline  Ken Burton   United States
Messages: 8500
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana
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I like your suggested route through the UP of Michigan better than my suggestion. I have run US 2 west of Duluth all the way to Kallispell, Montana. Good highway all the way. I can not speak about US2 east of Duluth. If you go that way you will miss me and Chicago, which you want to miss anyway, but Matt and others are in Michigan.

In Montana on US 2 there is cheap overnight camping at US Forest Service Summit Campground just south of Glacier Nat'l park. I believe that is at the Continental Divide. I have stayed there several times.

If you stay north in Canada as you go east, consider turning south at Brandon, MB (I believe it is Highway 10) and visiting / camping at the International Peace Garden. It is on the border of N. Dakota and Manitoba. I have been there many times to attend the IPG hamfest. I might go again next summer.

Good luck on your trip.

We will get that generator running.


Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
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