Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » Need plumbing advice, please?
Need plumbing advice, please? [message #328427] |
Sun, 21 January 2018 08:09 |
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GMC Jimmy
Messages: 199 Registered: September 2016 Location: Niagara, Ontario
Karma: 2
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Hello All, I hope everyone is enjoying this winter, it has been quite cold and snowy in most parts of North America... Ontario included.
1975 26' Coachmen built Royale with dry bath.
I'm working away on getting the GMC ready for the spring and was hoping to address an issue I noticed last autumn. While running the water in the front lounge sink (just happened to be this sink but it happens with the bathroom sink as well), after a couple of minutes I notice the water rises up from the shower drain and into the shower.
While trying to diagnose why this is happening, and I'm no plumber, you could hear some gurgling sounds as the water builds up into the shower.
Looking over the existing plumbing to determine drains and vents etc it appeared there isn't a direct drain vent, at least one that we could identify.
We tried snaking out lines, both drain and vent to try and clear any obstructions or clogs, did the best we could and because testing afterwards yielded the same result we looked at installing a new vent line. There is a vent line in the bathroom that ties the main drain line into a vent pipe but we thought it might fix the issue by adding another vent a bit further downstream towards the rear of the coach... no luck.
Here is a photo with a little description... http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/my-75-royale/p64479-image350.html
A = the existing drain line from the front lounge sink past the bathroom which disappears into the floor next to the generator enclosure, assuming this goes to the grey tank?
B = the newly added vent line connecting the main drain to what I believe is the black tank vent.
C = the existing vent line from black tank up through the roof via the bathroom.
What am I missing here, the only other possibility I can think of is that there should be another vent somewhere direct from the grey tank to the atmosphere? If this is the case where should I be looking because I haven't seen one yet?
Or should I be chasing an obstruction somewhere?
As always your guidance is appreciated,
Regards,
Mike
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Re: Need plumbing advice, please? [message #328430 is a reply to message #328427] |
Sun, 21 January 2018 08:39 |
jhbridges
Messages: 8412 Registered: May 2011 Location: Braselton ga
Karma: -74
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What's the chance one of the tanks isn't draining properly?
--johnny
Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell
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Re: [GMCnet] Need plumbing advice, please? [message #328436 is a reply to message #328433] |
Sun, 21 January 2018 09:48 |
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GMC Jimmy
Messages: 199 Registered: September 2016 Location: Niagara, Ontario
Karma: 2
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emerystora wrote on Sun, 21 January 2018 10:28If it's backing up into the shower pan your holding tank must be full.
You should check your drain valve. It probably is broken so that when you pull the rod to drain the slide valve isn't opening.
Or something is clogging the drain exit.
Perhaps someone has been dropping "wet naps" into the toilet?
Emery Stora
77 Kingsley
Frederick, CO
> On Jan 21, 2018, at 7:39 AM, Johnny Bridges via Gmclist wrote:
>
> What's the chance one of the tanks isn't draining properly?
>
> --johnny
> --
> 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
> Braselton, Ga.
> "I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell" - ol Andy, paraphrased
>
>
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Hello Emery, I purchased the coach in October of 2016 and nobody has been using the toilet since I have owned it. I did a renovation and removed and replaced the toilet during last winter.
I did drain both tanks this past summer and as mentioned above I never noticed any slow drainage, even when I filled the grey tank and drained it, it appeared to drain well. I have no previous history or knowledge of what it should drain like but it seemed to flow quite well.
Thanks,
Mike
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Re: Need plumbing advice, please? [message #328437 is a reply to message #328427] |
Sun, 21 January 2018 09:49 |
lqqkatjon
Messages: 2324 Registered: October 2010 Location: St. Cloud, MN
Karma: 5
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I dont think this is a common problem, so I would be looking for a clogged or broken pipe. But i do not lnow anything about your plumbing as i have never worked on your floorplan.
Does it eventually drain down in the shower after time. Or does it backup and stay backed up??
Snake camera time??
Jon Roche
75 palm beach
EBL EFI, manny headers, Micro Level, rebuilt most of coach now.
St. Cloud, MN
http://lqqkatjon.blogspot.com/
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Re: Need plumbing advice, please? [message #328438 is a reply to message #328427] |
Sun, 21 January 2018 09:50 |
lqqkatjon
Messages: 2324 Registered: October 2010 Location: St. Cloud, MN
Karma: 5
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Other question.
Does the shower drain ok? Is it onlt the sink? If you pour water into showe does it go into sink??
Jon Roche
75 palm beach
EBL EFI, manny headers, Micro Level, rebuilt most of coach now.
St. Cloud, MN
http://lqqkatjon.blogspot.com/
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Re: [GMCnet] Need plumbing advice, please? [message #328466 is a reply to message #328444] |
Sun, 21 January 2018 18:29 |
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GMC Jimmy
Messages: 199 Registered: September 2016 Location: Niagara, Ontario
Karma: 2
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jimk wrote on Sun, 21 January 2018 14:17On Sun, Jan 21, 2018 at 7:51 AM Jon Roche wrote:
> Other question.
>
> Does the shower drain ok? Is it onlt the sink? If you pour water into
> showe does it go into sink??
>
> You might snake from the shower as it leads to your gray tank on your Royal
> --
> Jon Roche
> 75 palm beach
> St. Cloud, MN
> http://lqqkatjon.blogspot.com/
>
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--
Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC, Newark,CA
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
http://www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
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Hi Jim, sorry but there wasn't a message, just what's quoted above?
Mike
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Re: [GMCnet] Need plumbing advice, please? [message #328467 is a reply to message #328465] |
Sun, 21 January 2018 18:37 |
Ken Henderson
Messages: 8726 Registered: March 2004 Location: Americus, GA
Karma: 9
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When you say "pour water down the shower drain sufficient to create the
back up", how much water is that? If it's less than 25-30 gallons (the
gray water tank capacity), the tank's not empty
and you've found your problem.
Ken H.
On Sun, Jan 21, 2018 at 7:26 PM, Mike wrote:
>
> lqqkatjon wrote on Sun, 21 January 2018 10:50
>> Other question.
>>
>> Does the shower drain ok? Is it onlt the sink? If you pour water into
showe does it go into sink??
>
>
> If I pour water down the shower drain sufficient to create the back up it
does drain. The water does not back up high enough to reach the sink, the
> shower drain is much lower than the sink, in order to allow sufficient
water to potentially reach the sink I assume the water would overflow out
of
> the shower enclosure and onto the coach floor.
>
> Hope this makes sense.,
> Mike
>
>
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Ken Henderson
Americus, GA
www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
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Re: [GMCnet] Need plumbing advice, please? [message #328468 is a reply to message #328467] |
Sun, 21 January 2018 18:47 |
77Royale
Messages: 461 Registered: June 2014 Location: Mid Michigan
Karma: 6
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Is it possible that where the coach is, when the water is backing up is not level? In my rear bath royale, the tub backed up once. The grey tank which is separate was near full, but I was also out of level with the back end a bit higher than the front. as soon as I aired the bags down a bit the issue was resolved. There may not be much if any "run" in the drains if your shower drain is in the middle of the coach and your trying to send water lower to the rearward grey tank.
77 Royale, Rear Dry Bath. 403, 3.55 Final Drive, Lenzi goodies, Patterson carb and dizzy.
Mid Michigan
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Re: [GMCnet] Need plumbing advice, please? [message #328479 is a reply to message #328464] |
Sun, 21 January 2018 21:35 |
Dave Stragand
Messages: 307 Registered: October 2017
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Does the gray tank have a clogged atmospheric vent? If air can’t get out, new water can’t get in too easily.
> On Jan 21, 2018, at 7:21 PM, Mike wrote:
>
> lqqkatjon wrote on Sun, 21 January 2018 10:49
>> I dont think this is a common problem, so I would be looking for a clogged or broken pipe. But i do not lnow anything about your plumbing as i
>> have never worked on your floorplan.
>>
>> Does it eventually drain down in the shower after time. Or does it backup and stay backed up??
>>
>> Snake camera time??
>
>
> Hi Jon, it drains from the shower, doesn't take long just a few gurgles and drains down, maybe 20 seconds or so.
> Regards,
> Mike
>
>
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1978 Transmode (403)
Pittsburgh, PA
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Re: [GMCnet] Need plumbing advice, please? [message #328483 is a reply to message #328479] |
Mon, 22 January 2018 00:36 |
jimk
Messages: 6734 Registered: July 2006 Location: Belmont, CA
Karma: 9
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Take a snake at the shower as it will lead to the tank.
On Sun, Jan 21, 2018 at 7:35 PM, Dave Stragand <
dave.stragand@forwardlook.net> wrote:
> Does the gray tank have a clogged atmospheric vent? If air can’t get out,
> new water can’t get in too easily.
>
>> On Jan 21, 2018, at 7:21 PM, Mike wrote:
>>
>> lqqkatjon wrote on Sun, 21 January 2018 10:49
>>> I dont think this is a common problem, so I would be looking for a
> clogged or broken pipe. But i do not lnow anything about your plumbing as i
>>> have never worked on your floorplan.
>>>
>>> Does it eventually drain down in the shower after time. Or does it
> backup and stay backed up??
>>>
>>> Snake camera time??
>>
>>
>> Hi Jon, it drains from the shower, doesn't take long just a few gurgles
> and drains down, maybe 20 seconds or so.
>> Regards,
>> Mike
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> GMCnet mailing list
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> _______________________________________________
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--
Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC, Newark,CA
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
http://www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
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Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
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Re: [GMCnet] Need plumbing advice, please? [message #328504 is a reply to message #328483] |
Mon, 22 January 2018 13:23 |
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GMC Jimmy
Messages: 199 Registered: September 2016 Location: Niagara, Ontario
Karma: 2
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Thanks again,
Ken... just a few gallons is all it takes to begin creeping into the shower, certainly less than the tank capacity.
If I "think" I have emptied the tank and it's not really empty this could be a/the reason.
I have filled the new water tank to approximately 50% capacity and drained it, water appeared to have good flow, I did this in the fall.
Perhaps it's time to snake the drains again in an attempt to address this issue.
77 Royale... the coach is on a flat concrete floor in my shop, however, the rear could probably be raised a bit as it does look a little low.
Dave... good question, I have added another vent from the main drain to an existing vent which I believe to be the black tank vent. I don't believe there is a direct vent from the grey tank to the atmosphere... should there be a dedicated vent from the grey tank to the atmosphere?
Thanks for the input,
Mike
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Re: [GMCnet] Need plumbing advice, please? [message #328513 is a reply to message #328510] |
Mon, 22 January 2018 18:46 |
Justin Brady
Messages: 769 Registered: April 2015 Location: Bell Buckle, TN
Karma: 11
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My guess is tank venting as well.
The water displaces the air in the tank, if the air can't escape the water can't get in.
Most tanks have at least one vent straight to atmosphere through the roof. Not sure of the grey setup on your coach though as I don't have a grey tank!
Justin Brady
http://www.thegmcrv.com/
1976 Palm Beach 455
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Re: [GMCnet] Need plumbing advice, please? [message #328518 is a reply to message #328513] |
Mon, 22 January 2018 19:46 |
Ken Henderson
Messages: 8726 Registered: March 2004 Location: Americus, GA
Karma: 9
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Justin, et al,
I don't see how venting can possibly be the problem. To run into the
shower pan, there MUST be liquid up to that level. H20 being a bit heavier
than air, even if the tank had no vent (which it apparently now has two of,
the original and the newly added one), the water would STILL go to the
bottom of the tank, not up into the shower. Admittedly increased pressure
in the tank MIGHT force a little bit, maybe a cup full, of water out of the
P-trap, but no more.
Ken H.
On Mon, Jan 22, 2018 at 7:46 PM, Justin Brady wrote:
> My guess is tank venting as well.
> The water displaces the air in the tank, if the air can't escape the water
> can't get in.
>
> Most tanks have at least one vent straight to atmosphere through the roof.
> Not sure of the grey setup on your coach though as I don't have a grey
> tank!
> --
> Justin Brady
> http://www.thegmcrv.com/
> 1976 Palm Beach 455
>
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Ken Henderson
Americus, GA
www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
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