Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » Yandina combiner cycles
| Yandina combiner cycles [message #328332] |
Wed, 17 January 2018 09:01  |
Tilerpep
Messages: 404
Registered: June 2013
Location: Raleigh, NC
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75 coach is stock isolator, 78 coach the PO put a Yandina combiner and removed isolator. I am tired of putting my alligator clips on the one with an isolator to charge engine battery when at home. But here is what bothers me about the Yandina, and I am curious if a different connection (or brand) will change it: when plugged into shore power and I am in the coach, I frequently hear a clunk as it connects and disconnects the batteries. the Yandina is mounted on the firewall and is easily heard inside when the 403 is not running. Seems like if the newish PD charger is plugged in, the batteries should just stay combined, but I presume as it reaches full charge on both batteries and the charger reduces voltage, it drops below the Yandina threshold to connect, then with 15 minutes use the PD moves voltage up a bit and it reconnects. If I'm right as to why, do y'all have suggestions to get it to stop? I think the Yandina has a connection available to wire a manual control, but then it seems like a very expensive alligator clip still likely to be left on like I often do on the coach with an isolator. Thoughts?
Moving it off the firewall will make it less annoying, but as I consider solar as well, I'm wanting to both understand and optimize what it is doing.
1975 Glenbrook, 1978 Royale rear bath
Raleigh, NC
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| Re: Yandina combiner cycles [message #328333 is a reply to message #328332] |
Wed, 17 January 2018 09:18  |
jhbridges
Messages: 8412
Registered: May 2011
Location: Braselton ga
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Mine does that as well. I figure some thing like the radio stay - alive or the like puts a bit of a load on the chassis battery and pulls it below the sense voltage. It's been doing that since I got it, it doesn't seem to hurt anything and both batteries stay hot. I don't worry 'bout it.
--johnny
Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell
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| Re: Yandina combiner cycles [message #328337 is a reply to message #328332] |
Wed, 17 January 2018 10:02 |
Ken Burton
Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana
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I saw that with another coach with a Yandina combiner installed. You hit on the problem exactly. The owner installed a new Yandina a few weeks later and it did the same thing.
When the PD drops to maintenance mode the output voltage drops to 13.2 to 13.3. Unfortunately that is also the switching point for the Yandina so it drops in and out. Neither the PD or the Yandina are adjustable so you are stuck. The reason for the delay is when the PD drops down there is a surface charge left on one or both of the batteries. It takes a while for it to bleed off and stabilize at the new 13.2 voltage. There is also a switching delay built into the Yandina.
If you want to spend more money, you might try a different brand of combiner to see if it switches at a different voltage.
Since you already have the combiner installed, install the manual switch to it and leave it turned on when you need want it combined. Make the switch one with an internal LED and it will remind you to turn it off when not needed. Those switches are $5.00 at Auto Zone.
There is really no reason to combine to the engine battery while parked as there is nothing to drain it unless you leave the car radio or front cockpit lights turned on. If you are going to long term park the coach for months then a $1.00 combiner might be used. It is my contention that combining and charging an already fully charged engine battery while camping for days or weeks is simply over charging it and shortens it life. My group 24 engine battery is in it's 10 year and still going strong.
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
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| Re: Yandina combiner cycles [message #328339 is a reply to message #328332] |
Wed, 17 January 2018 10:38 |
Tomtom
Messages: 20
Registered: June 2017
Location: Huntington Beach, CA
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Most of the smart isolators I have read about have a connect voltage of 13.2-13.6 and a disconnect voltage of 12.7 or so. I can't find a published disconnect voltage on the Yandina unit. I would think 12.7 would be low enough for the relay to stay engaged all the time when on shore power.
Tom
Tom
77 Kingsley. Mostly Stock, 455, Quad bag, tachometer, 16"wheels, Macerator.
Southern California, huntington beach
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| Re: Yandina combiner cycles [message #328344 is a reply to message #328332] |
Wed, 17 January 2018 11:18 |
Tilerpep
Messages: 404
Registered: June 2013
Location: Raleigh, NC
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Thanks for the replies so far...
I posted this prompted by the thread that is talking about the Victron combiner...anyone venture a guess, or have experience, that it does the same thing with the same other components? I am leaning toward trying a Victron on the 75 across the two battery connections on the isolator.
Also, would any of you EE types know of a trick to reduce or stabilize the voltage on the 78? A diode here, a smaller or bigger wire there, type of thing?
My need for engine charge is in part due to the "collective system health is not as new" reality...! For example, on the 75 I have one air pump that runs off ignition key, and one that is on house battery. If the system didn't leak down in two days, I wouldn't have to refill the 1.5 gallon air tank each time I get going. Works best to let both air pumps run for a few minutes on shore power and then crank the 455, otherwise it ends up being idling the motor for juice.
Another example is work days...still tracking down stuff like dash lights that don't work and other issues and it's great to count on the charger to do both systems as I work when plugged into shore.
And, I typically get used batteries for the coaches...overall very good dollars to donuts ratio, but not perfect. (I found one of those big $270 yellow AGM battery for $75 last fall - that thing works GREAT!) Given three kids in college, it means used batteries and leaky air systems for a bit longer - ha! But I am functional and camp 2-5 weeks a year, so gettin' it done.
1975 Glenbrook, 1978 Royale rear bath
Raleigh, NC
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| Re: Yandina combiner cycles [message #328345 is a reply to message #328344] |
Wed, 17 January 2018 11:26 |
Justin Brady
Messages: 769
Registered: April 2015
Location: Bell Buckle, TN
Karma: 11
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Tilerpep wrote on Wed, 17 January 2018 11:18Thanks for the replies so far...
I posted this prompted by the thread that is talking about the Victron combiner...anyone venture a guess, or have experience, that it does the same thing with the same other components? I am leaning toward trying a Victron on the 75 across the two battery connections on the isolator.
Not sure what you're asking about the same other components? It is a relay controlled by a PCB that analyzes voltage and voltage trends to determine when to open/close the relay. Pretty clever.
It will work just fine wired across the isolator.
Justin Brady
http://www.thegmcrv.com/
1976 Palm Beach 455
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| Re: Yandina combiner cycles [message #328348 is a reply to message #328345] |
Wed, 17 January 2018 11:53 |
Ken Burton
Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana
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I just looked at the spec sheet and the instruction manual for this thing and it looks like it would solve your Yandina problem. The cut off and cut in voltages have been lowered enough that it should not cycle.
I forgot to look at the price.
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
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| Re: Yandina combiner cycles [message #328350 is a reply to message #328345] |
Wed, 17 January 2018 12:31 |
Tilerpep
Messages: 404
Registered: June 2013
Location: Raleigh, NC
Karma: 7
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By the same other components I meant the PD charger mostly...as Ken B also observed, there is something about the on/off voltages of my combo with a Yandina that ends up cycling more often than I would like. Part of why I mentioned the used batteries I typically use is realizing that the voltage drop off in them may be a bit more up and down, and just a few tenths of a volt could be causing the cycling.
I think what I will do is order one of the Victrons noted in the other thread, and REPLACE the yandina with the victron. Then put the Yandina in the 75 coach which currently has no combiner. This will generate multiple comparative scenarios to see if the Victron eliminates the short cycling in the 78, and if the Yandina continues to short cycle in the 75.
Any tricks or things to be mindful of if I add a cheap solar charger to the mix are appreciated...
1975 Glenbrook, 1978 Royale rear bath
Raleigh, NC
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| Re: Yandina combiner cycles [message #328352 is a reply to message #328350] |
Wed, 17 January 2018 12:45 |
Justin Brady
Messages: 769
Registered: April 2015
Location: Bell Buckle, TN
Karma: 11
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The victron should not cycle like the yandina.
No trick to the solar, just set it up so that it charges one of the batteries, the combiner will do the rest. You'll get a better charge on the battery that the charger is closest to as there will be less voltage drop.
Run as large as we're as you can from the panel to the controller to minimize drop from the panels.
Justin Brady
http://www.thegmcrv.com/
1976 Palm Beach 455
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| Re: Yandina combiner cycles [message #328353 is a reply to message #328352] |
Wed, 17 January 2018 12:55 |
Tilerpep
Messages: 404
Registered: June 2013
Location: Raleigh, NC
Karma: 7
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Justin, are you the dude with the walnut shower pan and full custom cabinets and layout? If so, please come to Bean Station this year so I can see it...!
1975 Glenbrook, 1978 Royale rear bath
Raleigh, NC
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| Re: [GMCnet] Yandina combiner cycles [message #328362 is a reply to message #328350] |
Wed, 17 January 2018 17:40 |
Ken Henderson
Messages: 8726
Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA
Karma: 9
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Tyler,
Your plan to try the Victron & Yandina sounds as if it will yield useful
information. You haven't said which Yandina you use. If it's the C100,
you may want to try the silent mount I used when I had one: I screwed a
short piece of aluminum angle to the firewall. With that little shelf to
support the weight, I used double-sided foam tape to hold the C100 in
place. My having never heard any "clunks" may not mean a whole lot though,
given my hearing. :-)
Ken H.
On Wed, Jan 17, 2018 at 1:31 PM, Tyler wrote:
> By the same other components I meant the PD charger mostly...as Ken B also
> observed, there is something about the on/off voltages of my combo with a
> Yandina that ends up cycling more often than I would like. Part of why I
> mentioned the used batteries I typically use is realizing that the voltage
> drop off in them may be a bit more up and down, and just a few tenths of a
> volt could be causing the cycling.
>
> I think what I will do is order one of the Victrons noted in the other
> thread, and REPLACE the yandina with the victron. Then put the Yandina in
> the
> 75 coach which currently has no combiner. This will generate multiple
> comparative scenarios to see if the Victron eliminates the short cycling in
> the
> 78, and if the Yandina continues to short cycle in the 75.
>
> Any tricks or things to be mindful of if I add a cheap solar charger to
> the mix are appreciated...
> --
>
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Ken Henderson
Americus, GA
www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
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| Re: Yandina combiner cycles [message #328364 is a reply to message #328332] |
Wed, 17 January 2018 20:37 |
midlf
Messages: 2212
Registered: July 2007
Location: SE Wisc. (Palmyra)
Karma: 1
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I have the yandiana C100 and the PD with the charge wizard. The Yandina does not cycle.
Steve Southworth
1974 Glacier TZE064V100150 (for workin on)
1975 Transmode TZE365V100394 (parts & spares)
Palmyra WI
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| Re: Yandina combiner cycles [message #328365 is a reply to message #328344] |
Wed, 17 January 2018 20:42 |
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RF_Burns
Messages: 2276
Registered: June 2008
Location: S. Ontario, Canada
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To raise the charge sense voltage you could put a Schottky diode in series with the ground lead of the combiner. That would raise the charge sense (and disconnect) voltage by 0.3 volts. You might also need a filter capacitor across the diode.. and maybe a pullup resistor to maintain current through the diode ... and a bunch of time fooling around with it trying to fool it into working right.
Or just get a Victron unit that has a bit more hysteresis and be done with it.
Bruce Hislop
ON Canada
77PB, 455 Dick P. rebuilt, DynamicEFI EBL EFI & ESC.
1 ton front end
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/showphoto.php?photo=29001
My Staff says I never listen to them, or something like that
[Updated on: Wed, 17 January 2018 20:43] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Yandina combiner cycles [message #328376 is a reply to message #328332] |
Thu, 18 January 2018 09:20 |
jhbridges
Messages: 8412
Registered: May 2011
Location: Braselton ga
Karma: -74
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I'm just going to let mine click. It's done it since install I'm told. Doesn't seem to hurt anything.
--johnny
Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell
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| Re: Yandina combiner cycles [message #328388 is a reply to message #328332] |
Fri, 19 January 2018 11:00 |
JohnL455
Messages: 4447
Registered: October 2006
Location: Woodstock, IL
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Installed across the isolator all it needs to do is charge the engine battery (which is usually allready charged from driving) when 125V present and not carry alternator current to the house battery. The isolator does that. The combiner is just a switched parallel BETWEEN batteries and does not have to try to replenish a deeply discharged deep cycle house battery through the combiner while driving as it would with isolator removal. If the combiner does fail open, all you loose is the benefit of the combiner and are back to factory isolator configuration functionality.
John Lebetski
Woodstock, IL
77 Eleganza II
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| Re: Yandina combiner cycles [message #329967 is a reply to message #328332] |
Wed, 14 March 2018 09:16 |
Tilerpep
Messages: 404
Registered: June 2013
Location: Raleigh, NC
Karma: 7
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Update
More info, and a few experiments:
The 78 had a West Marine 150 combiner, which has a little label hidden on the back that said it was a Yandina and it needed the "minimum six feet of 6 gauge or less wire" connecting it (which it did not have). The Yandina site says this particular model is discontinued. I bought six feet of 8 gauge wire, split it to three foot sections and moved the Yandina/West Marine unit to the 75, keeping the isolator. Wow, 8 gauge was overkill, and too stiff to work with easily. I forget (have read on here before) why the six feet is needed.
I installed the new victron combiner in the 78 (no isolator). It did not say anything about six feet of lead wire, so I used the previous connectors.
Yesterday I worked in the 78 with all the interior lights and running lights on to load both systems while I fiddled with a new rotor, cap, timing and bunch of other systems. It did cycle the combiner, but not too often, and the noise is less of a clunk. With only the house side loaded, it seemed to cycle less than the Yandina.
I paid about $50 for the Victron, and Jim K has the Yandina 100 for $65 with the wiring premade. The Victron does not have an indicator light telling you when it is combining, the Yandina does. I think I would go with Jim K's Yandina if I were doing another one, both are a nice addition to stock setup.
1975 Glenbrook, 1978 Royale rear bath
Raleigh, NC
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| Re: [GMCnet] Yandina combiner cycles [message #329971 is a reply to message #329967] |
Wed, 14 March 2018 09:56 |
Mr ERFisher
Messages: 7117
Registered: August 2005
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On Wed, Mar 14, 2018 at 7:44 AM Tyler wrote:
> Update
> More info, and a few experiments:
>
> The 78 had a West Marine 150 combiner, which has a little label hidden on
> the back that said it was a Yandina and it needed the "minimum six feet of 6
> gauge or less wire" connecting it (which it did not have). The Yandina
> site says this particular model is discontinued. I bought six feet of 8
> gauge
> wire, split it to three foot sections and moved the Yandina/West Marine
> unit to the 75, keeping the isolator. Wow, 8 gauge was overkill, and too
> stiff
> to work with easily. I forget (have read on here before) why the six feet
> is needed.
>
> I installed the new victron combiner in the 78 (no isolator). It did not
> say anything about six feet of lead wire, so I used the previous connectors
Should keep,the isolator,, it dissapates power
> g
>
> Yesterday I worked in the 78 with all the interior lights and running
> lights on to load both systems while I fiddled with a new rotor, cap,
> timing and
> bunch of other systems. It did cycle the combiner, but not too often, and
> the noise is less of a clunk. With only the house side loaded, it seemed to
> cycle less than the Yandina.
>
> I paid about $50 for the Victron, and Jim K has the Yandina 100 for $65
> with the wiring premade. The Victron does not have an indicator light
> telling
> you when it is combining, the Yandina does. I think I would go with Jim
> K's Yandina if I were doing another one, both are a nice addition to stock
> setup.
> --
> 1975 Glenbrook, 1978 Royale rear bath
> Raleigh, NC
>
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--
Gene Fisher -- 74-23,77PB/ore/ca
“Give a man a fish; you have fed him for today --- give him a URL and
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Alternator Protection Cable
http://gmcmotorhome.info/APC.html
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