Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » 12pt inner drive bolt torque ( Was there a corrected value?)
| 12pt inner drive bolt torque [message #327806] |
Fri, 05 January 2018 11:50  |
JohnL455
Messages: 4447
Registered: October 2006
Location: Woodstock, IL
Karma: 12
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A GMCer lost all his bolts on one side several thousand miles after a shop did Manny trans install. I met him with my Mcmaster spares and washers and told him to use blue loctite and there was a FB post that 65 ft/lb was correct. Bob Stone said there was a manual misprint and that number might too high. I want to pass on correct info on torque spec.
John Lebetski
Woodstock, IL
77 Eleganza II
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| Re: 12pt inner drive bolt torque [message #327834 is a reply to message #327814] |
Fri, 05 January 2018 19:58  |
Ken Burton
Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana
Karma: 10
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65 is the number that I have always used. Go too loose and you will be replacing them somewhere down the road again.
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
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| Re: 12pt inner drive bolt torque [message #327865 is a reply to message #327806] |
Sat, 06 January 2018 08:44 |
jhbridges
Messages: 8412
Registered: May 2011
Location: Braselton ga
Karma: -74
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Use the thick washers intended for the purpose. JimK has them or your local Grainger/McMaster/whomever industrial supply has them. Locally it's Central Fastener. Take an old one along to match if you don't source them from one of the GMC suppliers to ensure you get the correct ones. Frankly, I suspect it's less expensive to simply get a set from Applied than it is to run down to the supplier, wait while the clerk finds the correct parts, wait while s/he takes the wrong washers back and (hopefully) finds the correct ones, etc. What's your time worth anyhow? (I got them for fifty cents a bolt. It took a couple of hours. I bill my time at $800 per day. I would have done Applied but I found the looseness on inspection the day before I left for a show)
--johnny
Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell
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| Re: 12pt inner drive bolt torque [message #327870 is a reply to message #327806] |
Sat, 06 January 2018 09:49 |
JohnL455
Messages: 4447
Registered: October 2006
Location: Woodstock, IL
Karma: 12
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I met the GMCer at a grocery 1/2 between us ( had to shop anyway) and got him 8 McMaster bolts and washers from my spares kit along with the blue and 65 info. He was going to probably have to chase the last thread on a few holes due to tear out when it let go. Hopefully he will back on the road south today. Thanks guys
John Lebetski
Woodstock, IL
77 Eleganza II
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| Re: [GMCnet] 12pt inner drive bolt torque [message #327880 is a reply to message #327877] |
Sat, 06 January 2018 10:46 |
jimk
Messages: 6734
Registered: July 2006
Location: Belmont, CA
Karma: 9
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I believe Emory is correct. in the parts book it calls out for one type.
We supply the exact bolt, the ones that are avilable at other sources
either have smaller heads and flll thread. Not that it will not work, but
shops like us hate to come back to the tool tray and use another socket.
The reason the driver side tends to back out more is that the spider gear
is attached to that output shast and creats more vibration. Also you will
not that the plat does have some play.
Being the major supplier of final drives, I receive calls frequently re.
the play.
On Sat, Jan 6, 2018 at 8:24 AM, James Hupy wrote:
> No, they are not.
> Jim Hupy
> Salem, Or
> 78 GMC ROYALE 403
>
> On Jan 6, 2018 8:02 AM, "Emery Stora" wrote:
>
>> I am fairly certain that they are all the same length.
>>
>> Emery Stora
>> 77 Kingsley
>> Frederick, CO
>>
>>> On Jan 6, 2018, at 8:52 AM, Steve Weinstock
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> I have a vague recollection that the bolts on one side are slightly
>> longer than on the other side...
>>>
>>> Correct ??
>>>
>>> Or do I have the wrong (too long) bolts on one half ??
>>>
>>> Thanks
>>>
>>> Steve W
>>> Southern California
>>> 1973 23'. Yellow
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> GMCnet mailing list
>>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
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>>
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--
Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC, Newark,CA
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
http://www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
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Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
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| Re: [GMCnet] 12pt inner drive bolt torque [message #327884 is a reply to message #327877] |
Sat, 06 January 2018 11:32 |
Emery Stora
Messages: 959
Registered: January 2011
Karma: 4
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Jim Hupy — You are very positive in your reply but please show me anywhere it says they are different lengths.
I have checked the maintenance manual and it doesn’t say anything about the length. It just says to use new bolts and torque them to 75 ft lbs.
I checked the parts book 78Z and on page 1-9 it shows one side with part number 39477 on diagram 1.006. It doesn’t show the other side.
The part number it gives is 39477.
So I went to the assembly manual and it shows there are 12 bolts part number 39477 with torque of 60:75 ft lbs.
Where do you find that they are of different lengths? I would trust that the assembly manual is correct.
I have replaced mine perhaps three times over the years and the ones I installed were all the same length.
So, I decided to call Jim Kanomata and ask him. Jim confirmed to me that both sides take the same length bolt.
He says that the reason some people have seen different lengths is because someone has used non-GMC belts which were a bit longer Then they had to grind some off the driver’s side so they didm’t hit the final drive.
But if you use 12 bolts all the same, but right, length they work fine.
Emery Stora
77 Kingsley
Frederick, CO
> On Jan 6, 2018, at 9:24 AM, James Hupy wrote:
>
> No, they are not.
> Jim Hupy
> Salem, Or
> 78 GMC ROYALE 403
>
> On Jan 6, 2018 8:02 AM, "Emery Stora" wrote:
>
>> I am fairly certain that they are all the same length.
>>
>> Emery Stora
>> 77 Kingsley
>> Frederick, CO
>>
>>> On Jan 6, 2018, at 8:52 AM, Steve Weinstock
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> I have a vague recollection that the bolts on one side are slightly
>> longer than on the other side...
>>>
>>> Correct ??
>>>
>>> Or do I have the wrong (too long) bolts on one half ??
>>>
>>> Thanks
>>>
>>> Steve W
>>> Southern California
>>> 1973 23'. Yellow
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> GMCnet mailing list
>>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>>> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> GMCnet mailing list
>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
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| Re: [GMCnet] 12pt inner drive bolt torque [message #327887 is a reply to message #327884] |
Sat, 06 January 2018 11:52 |
James Hupy
Messages: 6806
Registered: May 2010
Karma: -62
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Emery, I know what the factory parts book says. You and Jim K. are correct.
There is only ONE length listed there.
I confused the 1 ton bolts with the stock ones. MANNY T furnishes
DIFFERENT LENGTH bolts with his kits. His bolts are a higher grade than the
OEM bolts, and engage all the threads present in the mounting flanges. On
the drivers side of the coach, the flange runs in very close proximity to
the final drive case. If the longer bolts are used there, the ends protrude
through the flange, and in some instances will hit the final drive case.
That is why the shorter bolts are provided. Sorry that I muddied the waters
here. Hope this explains my answer.
Jim Hupy
On Jan 6, 2018 9:33 AM, "Emery Stora" wrote:
> Jim Hupy — You are very positive in your reply but please show me anywhere
> it says they are different lengths.
>
> I have checked the maintenance manual and it doesn’t say anything about
> the length. It just says to use new bolts and torque them to 75 ft lbs.
>
> I checked the parts book 78Z and on page 1-9 it shows one side with part
> number 39477 on diagram 1.006. It doesn’t show the other side.
> The part number it gives is 39477.
>
> So I went to the assembly manual and it shows there are 12 bolts part
> number 39477 with torque of 60:75 ft lbs.
>
> Where do you find that they are of different lengths? I would trust that
> the assembly manual is correct.
>
> I have replaced mine perhaps three times over the years and the ones I
> installed were all the same length.
>
> So, I decided to call Jim Kanomata and ask him. Jim confirmed to me that
> both sides take the same length bolt.
> He says that the reason some people have seen different lengths is because
> someone has used non-GMC belts which were a bit longer Then they had to
> grind some off the driver’s side so they didm’t hit the final drive.
> But if you use 12 bolts all the same, but right, length they work fine.
>
>
> Emery Stora
> 77 Kingsley
> Frederick, CO
>
>> On Jan 6, 2018, at 9:24 AM, James Hupy wrote:
>>
>> No, they are not.
>> Jim Hupy
>> Salem, Or
>> 78 GMC ROYALE 403
>>
>> On Jan 6, 2018 8:02 AM, "Emery Stora" wrote:
>>
>>> I am fairly certain that they are all the same length.
>>>
>>> Emery Stora
>>> 77 Kingsley
>>> Frederick, CO
>>>
>>>> On Jan 6, 2018, at 8:52 AM, Steve Weinstock
>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I have a vague recollection that the bolts on one side are slightly
>>> longer than on the other side...
>>>>
>>>> Correct ??
>>>>
>>>> Or do I have the wrong (too long) bolts on one half ??
>>>>
>>>> Thanks
>>>>
>>>> Steve W
>>>> Southern California
>>>> 1973 23'. Yellow
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> GMCnet mailing list
>>>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>>>> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> GMCnet mailing list
>>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>>> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> GMCnet mailing list
>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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| Re: [GMCnet] 12pt inner drive bolt torque [message #327890 is a reply to message #327887] |
Sat, 06 January 2018 12:17 |
Richard Denney
Messages: 920
Registered: April 2010
Karma: 9
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Senior Member |
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Manny’s original kits used different lengths, but he has reportedly and
apparently addressed that issue in his latest kits. All the bolts in the
kit I installed this year were the same length.
The original shafts all use the same length.
I want to argue with JimK a bit about the cause of the loosening on one
side. If vibration could loosen the bolts, they are simply not tight
enough. What works them loose is the direction of drive torque on that
side. If the bolts were left-threaded, they would not loosen. But they also
won’t loosen if they are tightened per the book. That is tighter than most
will attempt by feel, even professional mechanics, and I’m convinced that
the loosening incidents have resulted from not tightening them enough.
And I’ve never heard of anyone stripping out the proper-length bolts at the
torque shown in the book. Maybe there are cases of that, but I’ve never
heard of it.
Rick “remembering when Chrysler used left-threaded wheel studs on the port
side” Denney
On Sat, Jan 6, 2018 at 12:53 PM James Hupy wrote:
> Emery, I know what the factory parts book says. You and Jim K. are correct.
> There is only ONE length listed there.
> I confused the 1 ton bolts with the stock ones. MANNY T furnishes
> DIFFERENT LENGTH bolts with his kits. His bolts are a higher grade than the
> OEM bolts, and engage all the threads present in the mounting flanges. On
> the drivers side of the coach, the flange runs in very close proximity to
> the final drive case. If the longer bolts are used there, the ends protrude
> through the flange, and in some instances will hit the final drive case.
> That is why the shorter bolts are provided. Sorry that I muddied the waters
> here. Hope this explains my answer.
> Jim Hupy
>
> --
Rick Denney
73 x-Glacier 230 "Jaws"
Off-list email to rick at rickdenney dot com
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| Re: [GMCnet] 12pt inner drive bolt torque [message #327897 is a reply to message #327884] |
Sat, 06 January 2018 13:04 |
Emery Stora
Messages: 959
Registered: January 2011
Karma: 4
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Senior Member |
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It has been pointed out to me by a very knowledgeable GMC owner that doesn’t post here that I had typed the part number wrong. It should be 394777. I somehow dropped off a 7.
He also provided me a diagram that he had made of the bolt and washer many years back.
I have posted it to the GMCMH photos site.
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/g7130-axle-flange-bolt.html
Note that you can use either a 7/16” or 11mm 12 point socket to tighten the bolt.
Emery Stora
77 Kingsley
Frederick, CO
> On Jan 6, 2018, at 10:32 AM, Emery Stora wrote:
>
> Jim Hupy — You are very positive in your reply but please show me anywhere it says they are different lengths.
>
> I have checked the maintenance manual and it doesn’t say anything about the length. It just says to use new bolts and torque them to 75 ft lbs.
>
> I checked the parts book 78Z and on page 1-9 it shows one side with part number 39477 on diagram 1.006. It doesn’t show the other side.
> The part number it gives is 39477.
>
> So I went to the assembly manual and it shows there are 12 bolts part number 39477 with torque of 60:75 ft lbs.
>
> Where do you find that they are of different lengths? I would trust that the assembly manual is correct.
>
> I have replaced mine perhaps three times over the years and the ones I installed were all the same length.
>
> So, I decided to call Jim Kanomata and ask him. Jim confirmed to me that both sides take the same length bolt.
> He says that the reason some people have seen different lengths is because someone has used non-GMC belts which were a bit longer Then they had to grind some off the driver’s side so they didm’t hit the final drive.
> But if you use 12 bolts all the same, but right, length they work fine.
>
>
> Emery Stora
> 77 Kingsley
> Frederick, CO
>
>> On Jan 6, 2018, at 9:24 AM, James Hupy wrote:
>>
>> No, they are not.
>> Jim Hupy
>> Salem, Or
>> 78 GMC ROYALE 403
>>
>> On Jan 6, 2018 8:02 AM, "Emery Stora" wrote:
>>
>>> I am fairly certain that they are all the same length.
>>>
>>> Emery Stora
>>> 77 Kingsley
>>> Frederick, CO
>>>
>>>> On Jan 6, 2018, at 8:52 AM, Steve Weinstock
>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I have a vague recollection that the bolts on one side are slightly
>>> longer than on the other side...
>>>>
>>>> Correct ??
>>>>
>>>> Or do I have the wrong (too long) bolts on one half ??
>>>>
>>>> Thanks
>>>>
>>>> Steve W
>>>> Southern California
>>>> 1973 23'. Yellow
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> GMCnet mailing list
>>>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>>>> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> GMCnet mailing list
>>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>>> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> GMCnet mailing list
>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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| Re: [GMCnet] 12pt inner drive bolt torque [message #327898 is a reply to message #327877] |
Sat, 06 January 2018 13:27 |
Ken Henderson
Messages: 8726
Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA
Karma: 9
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Senior Member |
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The OEM bolts are 3/8"-24x1-1/4". The 1-Ton requires 3/8"-24x1" on the
driver's side only; there's space on the other side for the 1-1/4".
I use McMaster-Carr socket head bolts 91251A424 and 91251A426 with
high-collar washers 90073A231 for my 1-Ton. I find them easier to use than
the 91271A644 with 12-point heads (probably because I cracked a 12-point
socket on them).
Ken H.
On Sat, Jan 6, 2018 at 11:24 AM, James Hupy wrote:
> No, they are not.
>
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Ken Henderson
Americus, GA
www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
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| Re: [GMCnet] 12pt inner drive bolt torque [message #327899 is a reply to message #327898] |
Sat, 06 January 2018 13:36 |
jimk
Messages: 6734
Registered: July 2006
Location: Belmont, CA
Karma: 9
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Senior Member |
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We never received bolts in Mannys kit we installed.
I'll request that he do so net time.
The reason why a shorter bolt is needed on the driver side on the 1 Ton is
that the constant drive unit has a thiner lip.
On Sat, Jan 6, 2018 at 11:27 AM, Ken Henderson
wrote:
> The OEM bolts are 3/8"-24x1-1/4". The 1-Ton requires 3/8"-24x1" on the
> driver's side only; there's space on the other side for the 1-1/4".
>
> I use McMaster-Carr socket head bolts 91251A424 and 91251A426 with
> high-collar washers 90073A231 for my 1-Ton. I find them easier to use than
> the 91271A644 with 12-point heads (probably because I cracked a 12-point
> socket on them).
>
> Ken H.
>
> On Sat, Jan 6, 2018 at 11:24 AM, James Hupy wrote:
>
>> No, they are not.
>>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
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>
--
Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC, Newark,CA
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
http://www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
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Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
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| Re: 12pt inner drive bolt torque [message #327924 is a reply to message #327806] |
Sat, 06 January 2018 19:14 |
 |
SteveW
Messages: 538
Registered: June 2005
Location: Southern California - Ora...
Karma: 1
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Senior Member |
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And... Aha !!
I DO have a one ton front end from Manny. Apparently from earlier days with the shorter bolts on one side.
So... Pretty much everyone's comments were correct and I'm pleased that my memory was also correct.
Thanks everyone,
Steve W
1973 23'. Yellow
Southern California
Steve W
1973 : 23'
Southern California
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